VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that maybe legally OP is out the $. However, it’s just wrong for the owner to not refund the money given the condo is uninhabitable. It’s unethical and bad karma.

No, it isn’t. People get what they pay for in this context. People generally turn to VRBO or AirBNB when they don’t want to pay higher rates to rent a house through a rental company or pay for a hotel room/suite. But as the NYT article posted a page or two back shows, those bargains come with drawbacks. People who paid for hotels or rented through established rental agencies are generally getting refunds or credits for a future stay, because that’s one of the benefits you get when you pay more for these services/facilities. If you go the discount route *and* you go even cheaper by not buying trip insurance, you are getting the bargain you chose if you aren’t entitled to a refund, and there is nothing unethical about holding someone to their agreements.

I don't think that is the reason people rent through AirBNB or VRBO. It's not cheaper than rental agencies. It's because it's hard to find those local rental companies in other areas especially with reviews.
I am 100% in OP's favor. Basic contract law and the renter can't provide habitable accommodations. This is from someone who ate the cost when we couldn't travel due to covid.

Why were you unable to travel? I am the poster who just shared our experience with a rental in OBX in 2020. The island was closed to visitors at that time due to covid so we literally could not get onto the island, so perhaps fairly comparable to the situation OP may be facing next week. But if we couldn’t travel because one of us came down with covid or we just didn’t feel safe traveling generally, I wouldn’t have expected any special accommodations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is from the article OP linked above in first post.

"However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

BUT this isn't a cancellation due to a hurricane. It is a cancellation because the condo is not habitable/destroyed/island is not available to non-owners. Definitely dispute with the credit card, airbnb are going to lose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that maybe legally OP is out the $. However, it’s just wrong for the owner to not refund the money given the condo is uninhabitable. It’s unethical and bad karma.

No, it isn’t. People get what they pay for in this context. People generally turn to VRBO or AirBNB when they don’t want to pay higher rates to rent a house through a rental company or pay for a hotel room/suite. But as the NYT article posted a page or two back shows, those bargains come with drawbacks. People who paid for hotels or rented through established rental agencies are generally getting refunds or credits for a future stay, because that’s one of the benefits you get when you pay more for these services/facilities. If you go the discount route *and* you go even cheaper by not buying trip insurance, you are getting the bargain you chose if you aren’t entitled to a refund, and there is nothing unethical about holding someone to their agreements.

I don't think that is the reason people rent through AirBNB or VRBO. It's not cheaper than rental agencies. It's because it's hard to find those local rental companies in other areas especially with reviews.
I am 100% in OP's favor. Basic contract law and the renter can't provide habitable accommodations. This is from someone who ate the cost when we couldn't travel due to covid.

“Basic contract law” says you first look to the language of the contract (assuming you have a valid contract, but I think we’re all operating under the assumption that’s the case), so if you’re following “basic contract law,” you have to start by admitting you have no idea what the correct answer is because OP hasn’t shared the agreement here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is from the article OP linked above in first post.

"However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

BUT this isn't a cancellation due to a hurricane. It is a cancellation because the condo is not habitable/destroyed/island is not available to non-owners. Definitely dispute with the credit card, airbnb are going to lose.

DP. You don’t know that the unit is uninhabitable, and you don’t know that it won’t be available to non-visitors next week. But all that aside, all of those issue absolutely do arise out of a hurricane and so very likely does fall within the scope of this policy.

[Anonymous]

In this circumstance, OP would be happy to still go on vacation. The weather in Florida is fine this week. Unfortunately the host cannot offer a habitable property. OP isn't canceling, the host is canceling. The host should have hurricane insurance that includes coverage for lost revenue. OP should get a refund.

This is different from 2020 where the properties were habitable but guests were unable or choosing not to travel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is from the article OP linked above in first post.

"However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

BUT this isn't a cancellation due to a hurricane. It is a cancellation because the condo is not habitable/destroyed/island is not available to non-owners. Definitely dispute with the credit card, airbnb are going to lose.

This is all due to the hurricane. Some of you are literally just making stuff up. All that matters is OP's specific agreement. Your "feelings" on what's "fair" or "ethical" are irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In this circumstance, OP would be happy to still go on vacation. The weather in Florida is fine this week. Unfortunately the host cannot offer a habitable property. OP isn't canceling, the host is canceling. The host should have hurricane insurance that includes coverage for lost revenue. OP should get a refund.

This is different from 2020 where the properties were habitable but guests were unable or choosing not to travel.

What. Does. The. Contract. Say?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In this circumstance, OP would be happy to still go on vacation. The weather in Florida is fine this week. Unfortunately the host cannot offer a habitable property. OP isn't canceling, the host is canceling. The host should have hurricane insurance that includes coverage for lost revenue. OP should get a refund.

This is different from 2020 where the properties were habitable but guests were unable or choosing not to travel.

Nope its not different. Its quite clear you have no idea what you are talking about. Are you the same poster who keeps citing "contract law" but has clearly never taken contract law?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In this circumstance, OP would be happy to still go on vacation. The weather in Florida is fine this week. Unfortunately the host cannot offer a habitable property. OP isn't canceling, the host is canceling. The host should have hurricane insurance that includes coverage for lost revenue. OP should get a refund.

This is different from 2020 where the properties were habitable but guests were unable or choosing not to travel.

What. Does. The. Contract. Say?

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. x1000. I'm glad to see there are at least two of us here not crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In this circumstance, OP would be happy to still go on vacation. The weather in Florida is fine this week. Unfortunately the host cannot offer a habitable property. OP isn't canceling, the host is canceling. The host should have hurricane insurance that includes coverage for lost revenue. OP should get a refund.

This is different from 2020 where the properties were habitable but guests were unable or choosing not to travel.

I am not prepared to assume that OP would happily go on vacation to Sanibel next weekend if the unit were inhabitable even though she might not have access to beaches, stores, restaurants, etc. OP doesn’t want to wait and see if the unit will be accessible on her travel days, she wants the refund now because she knows she does not want to go to Sanibel next week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that maybe legally OP is out the $. However, it’s just wrong for the owner to not refund the money given the condo is uninhabitable. It’s unethical and bad karma.

No, it isn’t. People get what they pay for in this context. People generally turn to VRBO or AirBNB when they don’t want to pay higher rates to rent a house through a rental company or pay for a hotel room/suite. But as the NYT article posted a page or two back shows, those bargains come with drawbacks. People who paid for hotels or rented through established rental agencies are generally getting refunds or credits for a future stay, because that’s one of the benefits you get when you pay more for these services/facilities. If you go the discount route *and* you go even cheaper by not buying trip insurance, you are getting the bargain you chose if you aren’t entitled to a refund, and there is nothing unethical about holding someone to their agreements.

Not necessarily - again if you don’t purchase the hurricane insurance with the established rental agency you are out of luck!

[Anonymous]

I googled this in relation to Ian and it seems like it’s mostly up to the generosity of the hosts in the absence of a specific owner contract.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In this circumstance, OP would be happy to still go on vacation. The weather in Florida is fine this week. Unfortunately the host cannot offer a habitable property. OP isn't canceling, the host is canceling. The host should have hurricane insurance that includes coverage for lost revenue. OP should get a refund.

This is different from 2020 where the properties were habitable but guests were unable or choosing not to travel.

What. Does. The. Contract. Say?

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. x1000. I'm glad to see there are at least two of us here not crazy.

It's a rental agreement. Presumably it says that the hosts will provide the rental property in exchange for payment. It sounds like the hosts can't honor their end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is from the article OP linked above in first post.

"However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

BUT this isn't a cancellation due to a hurricane. It is a cancellation because the condo is not habitable/destroyed/island is not available to non-owners. Definitely dispute with the credit card, airbnb are going to lose.

DP. You don’t know that the unit is uninhabitable, and you don’t know that it won’t be available to non-visitors next week. But all that aside, all of those issue absolutely do arise out of a hurricane and so very likely does fall within the scope of this policy.

So you’re saying if the house wasn’t inhabitable for other reasons, then the renter would be entitled to a refund? That makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is from the article OP linked above in first post.

"However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

BUT this isn't a cancellation due to a hurricane. It is a cancellation because the condo is not habitable/destroyed/island is not available to non-owners. Definitely dispute with the credit card, airbnb are going to lose.

DP. You don’t know that the unit is uninhabitable, and you don’t know that it won’t be available to non-visitors next week. But all that aside, all of those issue absolutely do arise out of a hurricane and so very likely does fall within the scope of this policy.

So you’re saying if the house wasn’t inhabitable for other reasons, then the renter would be entitled to a refund? That makes no sense.

Sure it makes sense if hurricanes are specifically excluded, which it sounds like they are.