NYU Prof fired because his class was too hard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to know how many of the complainers diligently sought help in his office hours. Their expectation that he make his lectures available by zoom is telling. As opposed to their attending class and taking meticulous notes?

It's a huge lecture, not a small discussion class, right? I mean this guy is putting up his videos on youtube so zoom isn't really telling of anything.

A huge lecture class means they could have availed themselves of both professor and TA support in office hours. Would love to know if they made any effort to do so. What I hear from several college prof friends these days is that students are incredibly passive, unwilling to do the work / come to class prepared, and take little responsibility for their role in the learning process. But I can also believe they were not well-equipped for college due to pandemic learning losses. Both things can be true.

Not only can both be true, but problems are functions of the pandemic, yet no one will acknowledge that. Do we really want a generation of students to drop out of college because administration and professors, most of whom demanded to teach remotely themselves, won't deviate from the norm to address widespread problems and shortcomings in preparation?

Do you not believe his former Chair who is quoted in the article who felt that Dr. Jones' communication with students was "skeletal" and sometimes perceived as "harsh," and who also noted that Dr. Jones had not changed his style or methods in "a good many years?" Yes, this generation is disconnected and detached, but the solution is not to push them further away or discourage them from seeking help.


Professors have not been teaching remotely for at least a year, but nice try. The prof said he did adjust expectations, offer support etc. You don't believe him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to know how many of the complainers diligently sought help in his office hours. Their expectation that he make his lectures available by zoom is telling. As opposed to their attending class and taking meticulous notes?

It's a huge lecture, not a small discussion class, right? I mean this guy is putting up his videos on youtube so zoom isn't really telling of anything.

A huge lecture class means they could have availed themselves of both professor and TA support in office hours. Would love to know if they made any effort to do so. What I hear from several college prof friends these days is that students are incredibly passive, unwilling to do the work / come to class prepared, and take little responsibility for their role in the learning process. But I can also believe they were not well-equipped for college due to pandemic learning losses. Both things can be true.

Not only can both be true, but problems are functions of the pandemic, yet no one will acknowledge that. Do we really want a generation of students to drop out of college because administration and professors, most of whom demanded to teach remotely themselves, won't deviate from the norm to address widespread problems and shortcomings in preparation?

Do you not believe his former Chair who is quoted in the article who felt that Dr. Jones' communication with students was "skeletal" and sometimes perceived as "harsh," and who also noted that Dr. Jones had not changed his style or methods in "a good many years?" Yes, this generation is disconnected and detached, but the solution is not to push them further away or discourage them from seeking help.


Professors have not been teaching remotely for at least a year, but nice try. The prof said he did adjust expectations, offer support etc. You don't believe him?

Do you not believe his former Chair who is quoted in the article who felt that Dr. Jones' communication with students was "skeletal" and sometimes perceived as "harsh," and who also noted that Dr. Jones had not changed his style or methods in "a good many years?" Yes, this generation is disconnected and detached, but the solution is not to push them further away or discourage them from seeking help.

[Anonymous]

The class average was a 30, that is low by any standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Organic chem is supposed to be hard. It’s always been hard.

Anyone seen the movie idiocracy??

How "hard" is it in Third World countries? These American colleges PURPOSELY and quickly fail, sorry "weed out," over half of the pre-meds who are fully capable of becoming doctors. It's a big scam.

[Anonymous]

Oh good. It's been nearly a day before I have read a post on here that wasn't some version of:

"Kids today are such [snowflakes]**."

None of you were there or know first hand what happened. So stuff it with the comments and judgments like you do.

**could also insert "are so woke" or "all failing because of how bad teachers were during the pandemic" into brackets.

How original you all are.

[Anonymous]

His nasty tone notwithstanding, I can't say I disagree with the substance of his farewell letter to students.

"I learned last week that I have been fired from my position in the chemistry department at NYU. I was not given a reason, but I assume that it involves the “petition” of last spring (which I have never been allowed to see or comment on).
I send you this information because I will no longer be able to make any changes to the current data for chemistry 225 (2021) and 226 (2022). ALL – repeat ALL - future administrative matters including, but not limited to, grade changes, regrades, resolution of INC grades, and letters of recommendation must be dealt with by the deans and/or the departmental leadership, Professors Tuckerman and Walters.
I send congratulations to those of you who did well, and an apology to those of you who cruised through this course with a relentless stream of 100’s. The apology comes because I didn’t stretch you, and thus deprived you of the chance to improve beyond an already formidable baseline. Keep it up!
This incident is far more important than it looks. Consider the effect on an untenured or clinical professor. If his or her career is at the mercy of disgruntled students and accommodating deans, how are they to teach real material and give real grades? Much the same can be said for departmental administrators who meet with students daily. Can they afford to be tough when necessary?
The chemistry department’s ability to meet its teaching responsibilities has been diminished. Indeed, the university’s reputation has already suffered.
Now a piece of unsolicited advice: It is very difficult to be self critical. It is hard to accept personal responsibility when we meet failure, as each of us will at some point, but it is an essential life skill you would be wise to develop.
Good luck to all of you.
mj"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:His nasty tone notwithstanding, I can't say I disagree with the substance of his farewell letter to students.

"I learned last week that I have been fired from my position in the chemistry department at NYU. I was not given a reason, but I assume that it involves the “petition” of last spring (which I have never been allowed to see or comment on).
I send you this information because I will no longer be able to make any changes to the current data for chemistry 225 (2021) and 226 (2022). ALL – repeat ALL - future administrative matters including, but not limited to, grade changes, regrades, resolution of INC grades, and letters of recommendation must be dealt with by the deans and/or the departmental leadership, Professors Tuckerman and Walters.
I send congratulations to those of you who did well, and an apology to those of you who cruised through this course with a relentless stream of 100’s. The apology comes because I didn’t stretch you, and thus deprived you of the chance to improve beyond an already formidable baseline. Keep it up!
This incident is far more important than it looks. Consider the effect on an untenured or clinical professor. If his or her career is at the mercy of disgruntled students and accommodating deans, how are they to teach real material and give real grades? Much the same can be said for departmental administrators who meet with students daily. Can they afford to be tough when necessary?
The chemistry department’s ability to meet its teaching responsibilities has been diminished. Indeed, the university’s reputation has already suffered.
Now a piece of unsolicited advice: It is very difficult to be self critical. It is hard to accept personal responsibility when we meet failure, as each of us will at some point, but it is an essential life skill you would be wise to develop.
Good luck to all of you.
mj"

One thing this letter suggests is that he had highly disparate levels of preparation in his class. If he had a small band of students cruising through with 100s and students at the other end getting 0s and low double digits, tough to manage. I'd imagine that top-performing group of students can give you a false sense of security in your teaching, when the reality is probably they'd do equally well in any class due to superior preparation and ability to work very well independently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:His nasty tone notwithstanding, I can't say I disagree with the substance of his farewell letter to students.

"I learned last week that I have been fired from my position in the chemistry department at NYU. I was not given a reason, but I assume that it involves the “petition” of last spring (which I have never been allowed to see or comment on).
I send you this information because I will no longer be able to make any changes to the current data for chemistry 225 (2021) and 226 (2022). ALL – repeat ALL - future administrative matters including, but not limited to, grade changes, regrades, resolution of INC grades, and letters of recommendation must be dealt with by the deans and/or the departmental leadership, Professors Tuckerman and Walters.
I send congratulations to those of you who did well, and an apology to those of you who cruised through this course with a relentless stream of 100’s. The apology comes because I didn’t stretch you, and thus deprived you of the chance to improve beyond an already formidable baseline. Keep it up!
This incident is far more important than it looks. Consider the effect on an untenured or clinical professor. If his or her career is at the mercy of disgruntled students and accommodating deans, how are they to teach real material and give real grades? Much the same can be said for departmental administrators who meet with students daily. Can they afford to be tough when necessary?
The chemistry department’s ability to meet its teaching responsibilities has been diminished. Indeed, the university’s reputation has already suffered.
Now a piece of unsolicited advice: It is very difficult to be self critical. It is hard to accept personal responsibility when we meet failure, as each of us will at some point, but it is an essential life skill you would be wise to develop.
Good luck to all of you.
mj"

Is this for real? Where did you get this letter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His nasty tone notwithstanding, I can't say I disagree with the substance of his farewell letter to students.

"I learned last week that I have been fired from my position in the chemistry department at NYU. I was not given a reason, but I assume that it involves the “petition” of last spring (which I have never been allowed to see or comment on).
I send you this information because I will no longer be able to make any changes to the current data for chemistry 225 (2021) and 226 (2022). ALL – repeat ALL - future administrative matters including, but not limited to, grade changes, regrades, resolution of INC grades, and letters of recommendation must be dealt with by the deans and/or the departmental leadership, Professors Tuckerman and Walters.
I send congratulations to those of you who did well, and an apology to those of you who cruised through this course with a relentless stream of 100’s. The apology comes because I didn’t stretch you, and thus deprived you of the chance to improve beyond an already formidable baseline. Keep it up!
This incident is far more important than it looks. Consider the effect on an untenured or clinical professor. If his or her career is at the mercy of disgruntled students and accommodating deans, how are they to teach real material and give real grades? Much the same can be said for departmental administrators who meet with students daily. Can they afford to be tough when necessary?
The chemistry department’s ability to meet its teaching responsibilities has been diminished. Indeed, the university’s reputation has already suffered.
Now a piece of unsolicited advice: It is very difficult to be self critical. It is hard to accept personal responsibility when we meet failure, as each of us will at some point, but it is an essential life skill you would be wise to develop.
Good luck to all of you.
mj"

Is this for real? Where did you get this letter?

Yes, it's real. A colleague passed it along.

[Anonymous]

Medical schools are presumably going to notice the fact that NYU students don't excel at OC. Too bad for the students who do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:His nasty tone notwithstanding, I can't say I disagree with the substance of his farewell letter to students.

"I learned last week that I have been fired from my position in the chemistry department at NYU. I was not given a reason, but I assume that it involves the “petition” of last spring (which I have never been allowed to see or comment on).
I send you this information because I will no longer be able to make any changes to the current data for chemistry 225 (2021) and 226 (2022). ALL – repeat ALL - future administrative matters including, but not limited to, grade changes, regrades, resolution of INC grades, and letters of recommendation must be dealt with by the deans and/or the departmental leadership, Professors Tuckerman and Walters.
I send congratulations to those of you who did well, and an apology to those of you who cruised through this course with a relentless stream of 100’s. The apology comes because I didn’t stretch you, and thus deprived you of the chance to improve beyond an already formidable baseline. Keep it up!
This incident is far more important than it looks. Consider the effect on an untenured or clinical professor. If his or her career is at the mercy of disgruntled students and accommodating deans, how are they to teach real material and give real grades? Much the same can be said for departmental administrators who meet with students daily. Can they afford to be tough when necessary?
The chemistry department’s ability to meet its teaching responsibilities has been diminished. Indeed, the university’s reputation has already suffered.
Now a piece of unsolicited advice: It is very difficult to be self critical. It is hard to accept personal responsibility when we meet failure, as each of us will at some point, but it is an essential life skill you would be wise to develop.
Good luck to all of you.
mj"

It seems weird that he is claiming he never had an opportunity to see or respond to the petition and was not given an explanation for the decision not to renew his contact, since he filed a grievance against his termination and NYT was able to get a copy of the petition.

[Anonymous]

NYU apparently gave a statement to Reason. Here are the portions quoted in the article:

“NYU had in Professor Maitland Jones a faculty member with a one-year appointment specifically to teach organic chemistry…. In one of his organic chemistry classes in the spring 2022 there were, among other troubling indicators, a very high rate of student withdrawals, a student petition signed by 82 students, course evaluations scores that were by far the worst not only among members of the Chemistry Department but among all the University's undergraduate science courses, and multiple student complaints about his dismissiveness, unresponsiveness, condescension, and opacity about grading.”

“So, what exactly would be the argument for renewal of this appointment? NYU has lots of hard courses and lots of tough graders among the faculty - they don't end up with outcomes like this. Surely, among the many things a university should stand up for - including academic freedom, academic rigor, and a robust research enterprise - one of them should be good teaching. Good teaching shouldn't be pitted against rigor as an excuse for poor teaching; good teaching and rigor are perfectly compatible, and the latter is not a threat to the former at NYU.”

https://reason.com/2022/10/03/maitland-jones-jr-organic-chemistry-nyu-fired/?fbclid=IwAR3kzJg8mUyXYRswF1knWpuHJZgoQPoVKSViFUMYVTusGZOvD070bRWo1Ow&

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His nasty tone notwithstanding, I can't say I disagree with the substance of his farewell letter to students.

"I learned last week that I have been fired from my position in the chemistry department at NYU. I was not given a reason, but I assume that it involves the “petition” of last spring (which I have never been allowed to see or comment on).
I send you this information because I will no longer be able to make any changes to the current data for chemistry 225 (2021) and 226 (2022). ALL – repeat ALL - future administrative matters including, but not limited to, grade changes, regrades, resolution of INC grades, and letters of recommendation must be dealt with by the deans and/or the departmental leadership, Professors Tuckerman and Walters.
I send congratulations to those of you who did well, and an apology to those of you who cruised through this course with a relentless stream of 100’s. The apology comes because I didn’t stretch you, and thus deprived you of the chance to improve beyond an already formidable baseline. Keep it up!
This incident is far more important than it looks. Consider the effect on an untenured or clinical professor. If his or her career is at the mercy of disgruntled students and accommodating deans, how are they to teach real material and give real grades? Much the same can be said for departmental administrators who meet with students daily. Can they afford to be tough when necessary?
The chemistry department’s ability to meet its teaching responsibilities has been diminished. Indeed, the university’s reputation has already suffered.
Now a piece of unsolicited advice: It is very difficult to be self critical. It is hard to accept personal responsibility when we meet failure, as each of us will at some point, but it is an essential life skill you would be wise to develop.
Good luck to all of you.
mj"

Is this for real? Where did you get this letter?

Yes, it's real. A colleague passed it along.

This is pretty much why my father retired 15 years earlier than I thought he would. He loved teaching and I thought he might never retire. But over the decades of his career, students became consumers who thought they bought the right to succeed when they paid their tuition. Respect for expertise and knowledge has diminished and now there’s a frequent “you work for me” attitude instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His nasty tone notwithstanding, I can't say I disagree with the substance of his farewell letter to students.

"I learned last week that I have been fired from my position in the chemistry department at NYU. I was not given a reason, but I assume that it involves the “petition” of last spring (which I have never been allowed to see or comment on).
I send you this information because I will no longer be able to make any changes to the current data for chemistry 225 (2021) and 226 (2022). ALL – repeat ALL - future administrative matters including, but not limited to, grade changes, regrades, resolution of INC grades, and letters of recommendation must be dealt with by the deans and/or the departmental leadership, Professors Tuckerman and Walters.
I send congratulations to those of you who did well, and an apology to those of you who cruised through this course with a relentless stream of 100’s. The apology comes because I didn’t stretch you, and thus deprived you of the chance to improve beyond an already formidable baseline. Keep it up!
This incident is far more important than it looks. Consider the effect on an untenured or clinical professor. If his or her career is at the mercy of disgruntled students and accommodating deans, how are they to teach real material and give real grades? Much the same can be said for departmental administrators who meet with students daily. Can they afford to be tough when necessary?
The chemistry department’s ability to meet its teaching responsibilities has been diminished. Indeed, the university’s reputation has already suffered.
Now a piece of unsolicited advice: It is very difficult to be self critical. It is hard to accept personal responsibility when we meet failure, as each of us will at some point, but it is an essential life skill you would be wise to develop.
Good luck to all of you.
mj"

It seems weird that he is claiming he never had an opportunity to see or respond to the petition and was not given an explanation for the decision not to renew his contact, since he filed a grievance against his termination and NYT was able to get a copy of the petition.

Just because the NYT was able to get the petition doesn't mean he was able to. The problem is that he was adjunct faculty and as such had no real rights. The university can choose to let him go for any, or no, reason. The academy has definitely changed. My grad school professor, when confronted with complaints by students, proclaimed that he was the king of his castle. That is no longer the case. Although I think it has gone too far in the other direction--treating students like entitled consumers--I'm hoping the pendulum will swing back to a more reasonable middle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His nasty tone notwithstanding, I can't say I disagree with the substance of his farewell letter to students.

"I learned last week that I have been fired from my position in the chemistry department at NYU. I was not given a reason, but I assume that it involves the “petition” of last spring (which I have never been allowed to see or comment on).
I send you this information because I will no longer be able to make any changes to the current data for chemistry 225 (2021) and 226 (2022). ALL – repeat ALL - future administrative matters including, but not limited to, grade changes, regrades, resolution of INC grades, and letters of recommendation must be dealt with by the deans and/or the departmental leadership, Professors Tuckerman and Walters.
I send congratulations to those of you who did well, and an apology to those of you who cruised through this course with a relentless stream of 100’s. The apology comes because I didn’t stretch you, and thus deprived you of the chance to improve beyond an already formidable baseline. Keep it up!
This incident is far more important than it looks. Consider the effect on an untenured or clinical professor. If his or her career is at the mercy of disgruntled students and accommodating deans, how are they to teach real material and give real grades? Much the same can be said for departmental administrators who meet with students daily. Can they afford to be tough when necessary?
The chemistry department’s ability to meet its teaching responsibilities has been diminished. Indeed, the university’s reputation has already suffered.
Now a piece of unsolicited advice: It is very difficult to be self critical. It is hard to accept personal responsibility when we meet failure, as each of us will at some point, but it is an essential life skill you would be wise to develop.
Good luck to all of you.
mj"

One thing this letter suggests is that he had highly disparate levels of preparation in his class. If he had a small band of students cruising through with 100s and students at the other end getting 0s and low double digits, tough to manage. I'd imagine that top-performing group of students can give you a false sense of security in your teaching, when the reality is probably they'd do equally well in any class due to superior preparation and ability to work very well independently.

Because "students at the other end" should not take this class. Not everyone is suitable for advanced science classes.