$80k In Debt Worth It for Ivy Undergrad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. If I stay at Columbia, I'll have to take out $80k in loans. I can't go into the Peace Corps or do something similar post-grad because I'll have to start paying my loans off immediately.

Paying off $80k in loans pretty much dictates that I'll have to take a super intense, high-paying job after graduation if I want to chip away at the principle. Which I am NOT mentally healthy enough to do.

OP, I applaud you for recognizing this and drawing the line. And let's be honest - will your parents EVER be happy and satisfied? Ok, so you get the ivy degree. Then what? Pressure for a high paying, high prestige job? To marry someone they approve of? To have perfect babies that they can start indoctrinating? And you can bet your arse that will never hear the end of "we sacrificed everything for you - you owe us!"

And here's the irony - if your parents cut you off, you will then be able to get financial aid again. I think moving to a Seven Sisters school would be a good step towards a fresh start.

This is the dumbest comment I've ever read on this site (and that's saying a lot!). There's a difference between your parents having unrealistic expectations for marriage/children and your parents just expecting you to graduate college on time, which OP is currently failing to do. Having unrealistic standards for your kids is obviously bad, but having basic standards that are pathetically easy to meet (ie: graduate from college) is NOT a bad thing.

And of course OP's parents have the right to say that they sacrificed everything for her; they literally moved to a foreign country just for her! OP is obligated to fulfill her duty and reciprocate that sacrifice by graduating from Columbia. Moving to a Seven Sisters school would be a horrible idea, as it's basically throwing away the immense sacrifice her parents made for her by immigrating across the world.

Out of curiosity, are you the poster who goes around here calling everyone "Dumb Westerners?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. If I stay at Columbia, I'll have to take out $80k in loans. I can't go into the Peace Corps or do something similar post-grad because I'll have to start paying my loans off immediately.

Paying off $80k in loans pretty much dictates that I'll have to take a super intense, high-paying job after graduation if I want to chip away at the principle. Which I am NOT mentally healthy enough to do.

OP, I applaud you for recognizing this and drawing the line. And let's be honest - will your parents EVER be happy and satisfied? Ok, so you get the ivy degree. Then what? Pressure for a high paying, high prestige job? To marry someone they approve of? To have perfect babies that they can start indoctrinating? And you can bet your arse that will never hear the end of "we sacrificed everything for you - you owe us!"

And here's the irony - if your parents cut you off, you will then be able to get financial aid again. I think moving to a Seven Sisters school would be a good step towards a fresh start.

+ a billion.

Can you live at home and support yourself on a low-wage job for a couple of years? Do you have a more supportive relative or friend you can live with?

You're not going to afford rent for a solo apartment in a safe neighborhood on the type of job you can get now, without a degree.

BTW, my DD worked as a barista, and made a decent amount of money with tips right after college. She got a professional job in her field a few months later, but the barista job did tide her over until the right job came through. She has three roommates in a very cheap apartment, so that made it possible.

Go to one of the Seven Sisters programs! You'll be much happier. Stay away from your parents. Screaming and slamming doors because you won't major in stem is dysfunctional and abusive. Unbelievable that they think that's the right way to treat their own child!! Cut your parents off!! Stop interacting with them. They sound completely toxic. In time, when you're settled and in a good place emotionally and completely independent of them, you can start rebuilding a relationship with them. But right now they are damaging your mental health (well, they already did that). Do what you can to get away from them!!

You'll be academically challenged at Smith, Mt. Holyoke, etc. Study something you enjoy and forge your own professional path. BTW, those schools usually have excellent career services programs, so avail yourself of them when you get there. Best of luck, OP!

This is psychotic of you to say. Majoring in an objective, lucrative STEM field is the only way for middle class Asians in this country to move up in the social latter. OP's parents are NOT being unreasonable by pointing out how unhappy they'd be with an English degree (per OP's first post).

[Anonymous]

Stay at Columbia and take as many credits as possible in the next two semesters (easy classes, easy major) and over the summer so you can graduate a semester early to save money.

This seven sisters idea is deluded - if you get in (unlikely) you're definitely not getting a full ride and your credits might not transfer. It'll take you longer and you'll have to take huge loans to end up in the same position that you're in now. Even if you get in, there's no guarantee you'll like it any better.

You are also being totally naive about the reality of nonprofit/artsy jobs. You will get bored and tired of it very quickly and your exit options will be worse. It's a dead end and you will regret it. Instead, target non-MBB consulting firms (EY-P, S&, Deloitte)

[Anonymous]

You all are missing the point that OP is directionless. If she found something that sparked her interest, an $80K loan might be worth it, but she hasn't found IT. For me it was architecture/urban planning/geography, which all use STEM as a means not an end. Find the end you want and the means will be more than tolerable to get you there. Without a goal it's all meaningless. Does anybody still use "What Color is My Parachute?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stay at Columbia and take as many credits as possible in the next two semesters (easy classes, easy major) and over the summer so you can graduate a semester early to save money.

This seven sisters idea is deluded - if you get in (unlikely) you're definitely not getting a full ride and your credits might not transfer. It'll take you longer and you'll have to take huge loans to end up in the same position that you're in now. Even if you get in, there's no guarantee you'll like it any better.

You are also being totally naive about the reality of nonprofit/artsy jobs. You will get bored and tired of it very quickly and your exit options will be worse. It's a dead end and you will regret it. Instead, target non-MBB consulting firms (EY-P, S&, Deloitte)

Big Four consulting is worse. Equally long hours, lower pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You all are missing the point that OP is directionless. If she found something that sparked her interest, an $80K loan might be worth it, but she hasn't found IT. For me it was architecture/urban planning/geography, which all use STEM as a means not an end. Find the end you want and the means will be more than tolerable to get you there. Without a goal it's all meaningless. Does anybody still use "What Color is My Parachute?"

-1

Spoken like a true rich kid who majored in architecture.

OP, the goal for you is to START BUILDING GENERATIONAL WEALTH, which your parents clearly failed at. It doesn't matter which job you choose -- all jobs suck eventually. Just take the highest paying one possible -- McKinsey, Deloitte, whatever -- and start job hopping every two years until you hit 30. Meanwhile, live as frugally as possible so you can pay off your loans and start saving for a downpayment.

Seeking fulfillment or happiness out of your career is for rich kids only. Chase the bag, OP. No first-gen Asian has ever regretted taking a high-paying job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all are missing the point that OP is directionless. If she found something that sparked her interest, an $80K loan might be worth it, but she hasn't found IT. For me it was architecture/urban planning/geography, which all use STEM as a means not an end. Find the end you want and the means will be more than tolerable to get you there. Without a goal it's all meaningless. Does anybody still use "What Color is My Parachute?"

-1

Spoken like a true rich kid who majored in architecture.

OP, the goal for you is to START BUILDING GENERATIONAL WEALTH, which your parents clearly failed at. It doesn't matter which job you choose -- all jobs suck eventually. Just take the highest paying one possible -- McKinsey, Deloitte, whatever -- and start job hopping every two years until you hit 30. Meanwhile, live as frugally as possible so you can pay off your loans and start saving for a downpayment.

Seeking fulfillment or happiness out of your career is for rich kids only. Chase the bag, OP. No first-gen Asian has ever regretted taking a high-paying job.

You are literally the bad guy in every modern movie and story about Asian families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You all are missing the point that OP is directionless. If she found something that sparked her interest, an $80K loan might be worth it, but she hasn't found IT. For me it was architecture/urban planning/geography, which all use STEM as a means not an end. Find the end you want and the means will be more than tolerable to get you there. Without a goal it's all meaningless. Does anybody still use "What Color is My Parachute?"

Interesting combination- architecture/urban planning/geography - what do you do now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, I didn’t read the whole thread. Your marriage prospects may go up with a degree from Columbia. I know this probably is the last thing that you care about at age 20. I would suck it up and just finish your degree. 80k is not that much debt to graduate with.

I'm guessing you weren't a math major.

Also OP, the marriage arguments are just plain silly. No question about that.

Columbia costs $80k per year. Getting a degree for $80k is not a bad deal.

I have a friend who didn’t finish college. She withdrew and it messed up her financial aid. She also suffers from depression. She is currently in her 40s, divorced and depressed. She is not that different from when she was 20 and dropped out of college. I know she had some student loans. I’m almost certain she just defaulted on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You act like the only choices in life career-wise are crazy high stress $$$ finance, big law and medicine careers or low paying non-profit work.
The truth is that there is a whole spectrum. Finance can be a little more chill if you are at a company like PWC rather than Goldman Sachs but you can still make decent money. There are zillions of mid tier companies where work life balance is reasonable but you are not being paid 45-50 k like at a museum. Finish your degree and get a decent job. Or take a year to go into the Peace Corp and then get a decent job. There are students at Columbia who are not interested in working for Goldman Sachs, McKinsey, Amazon and Google. They exist. You need to expand your social circle and get out of your bubble

This is what I was going to say. Get a degree your parents can live with, take a high paid job for two years and pay off as much debt as you can but not necessarily all of it, and then move to a mid level paying job, like with the government or a union or university or smaller business or something. Or in a smaller city with a slower pace of life and lower cost of living. Nonprofits need IT and Finance people too. This is how you find the balance between Goldman and toiling away for peanuts at a nonprofit.

Look, I’m not obsessed with money but it matters. When you can’t pay for your dental implant after a stray ball at a softball game knocks out your tooth because you don’t have an extra $3k sitting around so you just walk around with a hole in your mouth, or when your car blows a tire and you have to replace not just the blown one but the matching one too because that’s what you have to do, so you can get to work because you have to drive because apartments near transit are too expensive or dangerous, or when you wake up one day and realize you’d really like to have an in unit washer/dryer so you can stop hauling your laundry to the nasty basement of your building to feed quarters into the washer and having to run back down there late at night hoping that creepy dude in 310A didn’t move your underwear again, or when you have a bout of anxiety and have to pony up $275 weekly for therapy because you can’t find a therapist who takes your crap insurance, or your when your landlord jacks up your rent and you have to move and all your friends are over 30 now and won’t come move you anymore because they are adults and anyway your furniture is too heavy plus they are busy with the baby so advise you to just hire movers (and let’s not even discuss where you are getting first and last months rent plus a security deposit) or when one month you didn’t notice you had a water leak in one of your toilets so you get slammed with a water bill triple what’s normal, or when your best friend across the country’s husband dies in a motorcycle accident and you want to buy a last minute plane ticket to fly out and support her…. These things require real money. You can understand what life will be like at 25 with a low income but you can’t fathom it at 50.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, I didn’t read the whole thread. Your marriage prospects may go up with a degree from Columbia. I know this probably is the last thing that you care about at age 20. I would suck it up and just finish your degree. 80k is not that much debt to graduate with.

I'm guessing you weren't a math major.

Also OP, the marriage arguments are just plain silly. No question about that.

Columbia costs $80k per year. Getting a degree for $80k is not a bad deal.

I have a friend who didn’t finish college. She withdrew and it messed up her financial aid. She also suffers from depression. She is currently in her 40s, divorced and depressed. She is not that different from when she was 20 and dropped out of college. I know she had some student loans. I’m almost certain she just defaulted on them.

+1

80K for a degree from Columbia is nothing. 80K with zero prospects would be silly, but OP only will have zero prospects if she doesn’t finish her degree.

OP, this is my last post because you’re frankly not looking for advice. It would be a phenomenally bad decision to drop out because of who you are. The people who would succeed at your half thought out (being generous) alternative plans wouldn’t be lazy/naive enough to drop out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Try to stay positive and finish the degree, OP. That Ivy name will open doors for you forever. A high school friend of mine who went to an Ivy (likely yours, based on your description) just bought a $14 million dollar McMansion at age 34! Meanwhile my DH and I will not come close to that amount over our lifetime. Then again, we didn’t go to an Ivy. We all went to the same high school and our friend wasn’t even in the top 10% academically, but he had a special interest/talent and decent grades, and I guess that was enough to be admitted to an Ivy in the 90s.

LMAO. Most Ivy grads will never get to such an accomplishment. Your friend is either an extreme outlier or had rich parents help him buy the McMansion. Absurd to use this one random anecdote as proof OP should stay.

He works for a top financial firm. I personally know a handful of Wall Street people who retired in their late 30s and 40s with $50-100 mill. My friend’s parents are middle class at best. His boss went to the same Ivy and took a chance on him early on. My friend works a ton, but he loves it.

OP here. I would literally rather go to jail than go work at Wall Street (and I was in prison for a day after getting arrested at a protest, so there's that...)

A number of posters have called you spoiled/ungrateful/entitled, and I am sensing some of that too. What separates the people on the top from everyone else is their ability to delay gratification. Grunt it out. Not everyone is cut out for this, but then don’t complain when you cannot afford stuff in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Try to stay positive and finish the degree, OP. That Ivy name will open doors for you forever. A high school friend of mine who went to an Ivy (likely yours, based on your description) just bought a $14 million dollar McMansion at age 34! Meanwhile my DH and I will not come close to that amount over our lifetime. Then again, we didn’t go to an Ivy. We all went to the same high school and our friend wasn’t even in the top 10% academically, but he had a special interest/talent and decent grades, and I guess that was enough to be admitted to an Ivy in the 90s.

LMAO. Most Ivy grads will never get to such an accomplishment. Your friend is either an extreme outlier or had rich parents help him buy the McMansion. Absurd to use this one random anecdote as proof OP should stay.

He works for a top financial firm. I personally know a handful of Wall Street people who retired in their late 30s and 40s with $50-100 mill. My friend’s parents are middle class at best. His boss went to the same Ivy and took a chance on him early on. My friend works a ton, but he loves it.

OP here. I would literally rather go to jail than go work at Wall Street (and I was in prison for a day after getting arrested at a protest, so there's that...)

A number of posters have called you spoiled/ungrateful/entitled, and I am sensing some of that too. What separates the people on the top from everyone else is their ability to delay gratification. Grunt it out. Not everyone is cut out for this, but then don’t complain when you cannot afford stuff in life.

OP here. You're right. I guess I'm tired of delaying gratification. My entire life up until this point -- my parents screaming at me to perform academically to their standards, trying a STEM major and failing, trying to tough it out at a notoriously competitive school that I hate -- has been a series of delayed gratification. It's just that achievement seems empty at this point, and I want something more immediately tangible and pleasant. I am tired. I am so, so tired of trying to delay all these awards when fundamentally it seems like meaningless bullshit that I don't care about. I don't see the point of sticking it out in the rat race since it seems like the rewards are too far off for me to enjoy.

Yes, I'm aware that makes me spoiled/self-indulgent/entitled. I think it's because I was raised by Asian immigrant tiger parents to delay gratification for so long that I'm super burnt out and tired of everything.

PS: It's hard to delay gratification during a difficult, trying job when you're actively suicidal as a college student. Idk, I think my mental illness is calling for me to stop delaying and instead search for more immediate and more intrinsically meaningful things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You act like the only choices in life career-wise are crazy high stress $$$ finance, big law and medicine careers or low paying non-profit work.
The truth is that there is a whole spectrum. Finance can be a little more chill if you are at a company like PWC rather than Goldman Sachs but you can still make decent money. There are zillions of mid tier companies where work life balance is reasonable but you are not being paid 45-50 k like at a museum. Finish your degree and get a decent job. Or take a year to go into the Peace Corp and then get a decent job. There are students at Columbia who are not interested in working for Goldman Sachs, McKinsey, Amazon and Google. They exist. You need to expand your social circle and get out of your bubble

This is what I was going to say. Get a degree your parents can live with, take a high paid job for two years and pay off as much debt as you can but not necessarily all of it, and then move to a mid level paying job, like with the government or a union or university or smaller business or something. Or in a smaller city with a slower pace of life and lower cost of living. Nonprofits need IT and Finance people too. This is how you find the balance between Goldman and toiling away for peanuts at a nonprofit.

Look, I’m not obsessed with money but it matters. When you can’t pay for your dental implant after a stray ball at a softball game knocks out your tooth because you don’t have an extra $3k sitting around so you just walk around with a hole in your mouth, or when your car blows a tire and you have to replace not just the blown one but the matching one too because that’s what you have to do, so you can get to work because you have to drive because apartments near transit are too expensive or dangerous, or when you wake up one day and realize you’d really like to have an in unit washer/dryer so you can stop hauling your laundry to the nasty basement of your building to feed quarters into the washer and having to run back down there late at night hoping that creepy dude in 310A didn’t move your underwear again, or when you have a bout of anxiety and have to pony up $275 weekly for therapy because you can’t find a therapist who takes your crap insurance, or your when your landlord jacks up your rent and you have to move and all your friends are over 30 now and won’t come move you anymore because they are adults and anyway your furniture is too heavy plus they are busy with the baby so advise you to just hire movers (and let’s not even discuss where you are getting first and last months rent plus a security deposit) or when one month you didn’t notice you had a water leak in one of your toilets so you get slammed with a water bill triple what’s normal, or when your best friend across the country’s husband dies in a motorcycle accident and you want to buy a last minute plane ticket to fly out and support her…. These things require real money. You can understand what life will be like at 25 with a low income but you can’t fathom it at 50.

Valid, but you can do all this with a salary in a non-finance-tech-consulting-medicine-Big Law type job and a degree from a state school (as long as you have minimal student debt and live in an area without a HCOL).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, I didn’t read the whole thread. Your marriage prospects may go up with a degree from Columbia. I know this probably is the last thing that you care about at age 20. I would suck it up and just finish your degree. 80k is not that much debt to graduate with.

I'm guessing you weren't a math major.

Also OP, the marriage arguments are just plain silly. No question about that.

Columbia costs $80k per year. Getting a degree for $80k is not a bad deal.

I have a friend who didn’t finish college. She withdrew and it messed up her financial aid. She also suffers from depression. She is currently in her 40s, divorced and depressed. She is not that different from when she was 20 and dropped out of college. I know she had some student loans. I’m almost certain she just defaulted on them.

+1

80K for a degree from Columbia is nothing. 80K with zero prospects would be silly, but OP only will have zero prospects if she doesn’t finish her degree.

OP, this is my last post because you’re frankly not looking for advice. It would be a phenomenally bad decision to drop out because of who you are. The people who would succeed at your half thought out (being generous) alternative plans wouldn’t be lazy/naive enough to drop out.

I disagree. I think most people would be wary of taking out $80k for a BA in English.