Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From your post, OP, it sounds like you have one dc? If so, and I am not being unkind, but your sample of one is really hard to use as a claim that pushing works.

I have two dc and they are so different! Same with friends and family. As an older parent, I will say that what we think is our parenting ( short of abuse, neglect, etc) is nature so don’t take all the credit😀 Most of what kids do and or become is nature.

One dc you push might fight, withdraw, do drugs, suicide. Another may comply and you think it’s your parenting.

Observe their strengths, recognize weaknesses. model and show respect, relay importance of them to meet obligations/ commitments, require home keeping and family support starting with small tasks, and provide empathy and leeway when they faulter.

This idea of must get As, must take most rigorous only works if child is capable and wants it. It is not you. Also remember life is long!

One example, one dc truly musically gifted. They asked for lessons and thrived. At some point in early teen years we fought about practice time, teacher disappointed as wanted more. However, I knew that dc just loved music and their adult self would be so happy that they could play their instrument. So I let perfection go, I told teacher to let their talent go ( as they did not want it for performance) and accepted less than what was required for practice.

Fast forward to dc22 yr old self who relaxes by playing instrument. If we had pushed, they would have stopped at 14 and the previous ten years would have been wasted.

Lastly, my parents modeled hard work but never pushed. I pushed myself and turned out great😀

you don't know this.

Correct.

We put our kids in a variety of things and they had strikingly different teaching or coaching styles.

Their laid back progressive private school didn’t push at all, we left before the upper grades it was getting so disappointing how they let adolescents set the tone.

They had easy coaches for some sports and some firm, orderly coaches for other sports or programs or camps.

Guess what? EVERY time they had a fair, strict, organized teacher or coach who focused on PROGRESS and pushing oneself, they learned more, got visibly better, could recite what they did or learned and happily did so! They were thriving, growing and learning a ton!

And every time they had the friendly nice teacher or lackadaisical coach, they came home and couldn’t articulate a class unit lesson or drill or what was even going on. Much less learning and development. They came back with goofy stories of class pranks, kids getting sent to the principals office or wandering about, and tv videos with no context.

So we changed to less progressive pedagogy k-12 schools since it was clear most children learned more when pushed and taught well with clear structure and goals. The self-pacing joy of learning school resulted in not much material covered and what was covered was misguidedly slow, goody projects with a range of social issues group work, and zero feedback to child or parents.

[Anonymous]

I come from the Appalachian Mountains, OP. My oldest son just turned 30, and he was going deer hunting with his dad at age 3. You are coddling your kid, in comparison to how I raised my six, how I was raised, and how my kids are raising my grandchildren. Better step up your game. Country people can survive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I come from the Appalachian Mountains, OP. My oldest son just turned 30, and he was going deer hunting with his dad at age 3. You are coddling your kid, in comparison to how I raised my six, how I was raised, and how my kids are raising my grandchildren. Better step up your game. Country people can survive.

What does this mean in the context of OP's post?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I come from the Appalachian Mountains, OP. My oldest son just turned 30, and he was going deer hunting with his dad at age 3. You are coddling your kid, in comparison to how I raised my six, how I was raised, and how my kids are raising my grandchildren. Better step up your game. Country people can survive.

What does this mean in the context of OP's post?

Mom of 6 is very well known on this board as advocating non-involvement in her kids lives (to the point of never having met some of her grandkids). She also does not believe in paying for college so I suspect she thinks OP is too involved in her kids lives.

[Anonymous]

Push them to what extent though? Yes, I wabt my kids to be good people, do well in school and in any activities IF they so choose to be in them, but that's it. I wabt them to be kids as long as possible and have a great childhood.

[Anonymous]

OP is a nut job. Not because he/she pushes their kids. But because he/she is so obsessed with what everyone else is doing and thinking.

You want to push your kids? Great - knock yourself out.

You want to take a more hands-off approach? Awesome.

Secure, healthy people know what they value and live their lives accordingly. Not a lot of beef to convince or condemn people who live differently.

OP seems to be in a different category. Clearly insecure and worried. Otherwise why would they be so concerned about other people and seeking validation by judging others???

Live and let live, OP. There are many different ways to raise happy, healthy kids.

The fact that someone else is doing it differently than you does not mean either is wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP is a nut job. Not because he/she pushes their kids. But because he/she is so obsessed with what everyone else is doing and thinking.

You want to push your kids? Great - knock yourself out.

You want to take a more hands-off approach? Awesome.

Secure, healthy people know what they value and live their lives accordingly. Not a lot of beef to convince or condemn people who live differently.

OP seems to be in a different category. Clearly insecure and worried. Otherwise why would they be so concerned about other people and seeking validation by judging others???

Live and let live, OP. There are many different ways to raise happy, healthy kids.

The fact that someone else is doing it differently than you does not mean either is wrong.

Need, not beef. 😂

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I come from the Appalachian Mountains, OP. My oldest son just turned 30, and he was going deer hunting with his dad at age 3. You are coddling your kid, in comparison to how I raised my six, how I was raised, and how my kids are raising my grandchildren. Better step up your game. Country people can survive.

What does this mean in the context of OP's post?

Mom of 6 is very well known on this board as advocating non-involvement in her kids lives (to the point of never having met some of her grandkids). She also does not believe in paying for college so I suspect she thinks OP is too involved in her kids lives.

+1

I largely use mom of 6 as a barometer of what not to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because my kids were not receptive to "pushing" and it backfired. Maybe your kids will practice the instrument but, mine didn't when they didn't want to play anymore. It was a huge waste of time and money. So that's one reason. Second I realized that my kids are not mini-mes and should have autonomy to chose what they want to do. And I want a relationship with them when they are older.

OP here. My kid was originally not receptive to pushing, but with appropriate punishments for not responding to my pushing (ie: taking away phone privileges, not letting them take Driver's Ed, not letting them meet up with friends on weekends, and the occasionally yelling and fighting), they became receptive. And, IME, so will 99% of kids (barring a learning disorder). Kids WILL have to be receptive if their social life is on the line.

Didn't read all 14 pages, just page 1.

I push my kid out of their comfort zone because they're more laid back than I was and are still building self confidence and because of my pushing, they've found passions they otherwise wouldn't have had the confidence to try so they need a bit of a push. That said, they are extremely intelligent and they can do the work no problem. I let them choose the sport and the ECs. Now would I talk about removing privileges if they didn't do their work, blow off their classes and participated in nothing at school? Sure. Would one of those "punishments" be not letting them take Drivers ED? No. That's how I know OP is a troll or off their rocker. Knowing how to drive, regardless of when your kid gets their license, is a life skill and a safety issue as well in my opinion. Taking away a life skill and equating that to pulling back on phone time is not in the same ball park, it's not even the same sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I posted this as a comment on another thread, but I think it's odd how many posters here are averse to pushing their kid and having them develop an amazing work ethic (the #1 key to success!) all because they're worried that they'll harm their fragile snowflake's "mental health."


I demand that my kid (who is of fairly average intelligence -- 110 IQ) take the most rigorous classes offered at their school (a "W" school), try their best to get straight As (so far successful except for 1 B sophomore year), participate in a sport, play an instrument, work a (crappy, minimum wage) summer job, and be active in community service. DC doesn't want to do any of this (they are naturally very lazy), but I push them academically and extracurricularly because it forms a well-rounded human being. Not for the sake of college admissions, not for the sake of impressing an AO, but for the sake of developing a work ethic that'll launch them into success in college and beyond. Too many Americans these days lack a strong work ethic.

And for some reason, the parents on here think that all of this will destroy my kid's mental health. The best thing you can do for your kid's mental health is to build grit and resilience, as well as normalize failure. That's why I demand that my kid try their best at activities that are naturally outside of their comfort zone. It seems as though this is a common approach to successful and well-rounded kids; the ones who are the healthiest and happiest in DC's friend group are the ones who are pushed by their parents to do things outside of their comfort zone while normalizing failure and not being the best at everything you do. And the ones in DC's friend group with the most mental health issues are the ones with coddling parents who try to shelter their kid from every potential failure while not pushing them to step outside of their comfort zone.

I will answer you honestly, OP.
I don't push my children to develop an "amazing work ethic" because I'm not a 1st generation immigrant.

My parents parents were and they - when finally blessed with the opportunity- did what you are describing. My parents went to the best colleges, work day in, day out and weekends and got ahead in high pressure, high stakes, high paying jobs. And were miserable

.
We all would have been happier with parents who were around more, who took better care of their mental and spiritual health, who enjoyed hobbies and life vs having the best house, the best cars. The best clothes, etc.

You will notice that 20 years ago the doctors and lawyers were Jewish because their parents fled oppression post ww2 and pushed their children to work as hard as possible and it paid off financially. But they aren't pushing their children to follow in their footsteps for a reason. Now all the doctors and lawyers are middle or far eastern who are going through the same cycle.

We take stock of what's important and it's more of a whole person vs hard work ethic. Besides, the working world has changed and hard work and loyalty don't pay off as they used to anyway.

[Anonymous]

Because I was pushed hard, and I know how bad it was for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this as a comment on another thread, but I think it's odd how many posters here are averse to pushing their kid and having them develop an amazing work ethic (the #1 key to success!) all because they're worried that they'll harm their fragile snowflake's "mental health."


I demand that my kid (who is of fairly average intelligence -- 110 IQ) take the most rigorous classes offered at their school (a "W" school), try their best to get straight As (so far successful except for 1 B sophomore year), participate in a sport, play an instrument, work a (crappy, minimum wage) summer job, and be active in community service. DC doesn't want to do any of this (they are naturally very lazy), but I push them academically and extracurricularly because it forms a well-rounded human being. Not for the sake of college admissions, not for the sake of impressing an AO, but for the sake of developing a work ethic that'll launch them into success in college and beyond. Too many Americans these days lack a strong work ethic.

And for some reason, the parents on here think that all of this will destroy my kid's mental health. The best thing you can do for your kid's mental health is to build grit and resilience, as well as normalize failure. That's why I demand that my kid try their best at activities that are naturally outside of their comfort zone. It seems as though this is a common approach to successful and well-rounded kids; the ones who are the healthiest and happiest in DC's friend group are the ones who are pushed by their parents to do things outside of their comfort zone while normalizing failure and not being the best at everything you do. And the ones in DC's friend group with the most mental health issues are the ones with coddling parents who try to shelter their kid from every potential failure while not pushing them to step outside of their comfort zone.

I will answer you honestly, OP.
I don't push my children to develop an "amazing work ethic" because I'm not a 1st generation immigrant.

My parents parents were and they - when finally blessed with the opportunity- did what you are describing. My parents went to the best colleges, work day in, day out and weekends and got ahead in high pressure, high stakes, high paying jobs. And were miserable

.
We all would have been happier with parents who were around more, who took better care of their mental and spiritual health, who enjoyed hobbies and life vs having the best house, the best cars. The best clothes, etc.

You will notice that 20 years ago the doctors and lawyers were Jewish because their parents fled oppression post ww2 and pushed their children to work as hard as possible and it paid off financially. But they aren't pushing their children to follow in their footsteps for a reason. Now all the doctors and lawyers are middle or far eastern who are going through the same cycle.

We take stock of what's important and it's more of a whole person vs hard work ethic. Besides, the working world has changed and hard work and loyalty don't pay off as they used to anyway.

funny thing about cycles... the cycle doesn't end with happy, well-adjusted kids enjoying life at leisurely pace. it ends with their kids (if not them) abusing drugs and falling back to poverty level.

[Anonymous]

My rules of thumb:
1. do your best to make sure your kids know you love them no matter what. do not make love conditional on achieving.
2. give them age-appropriate activities to complete in reasonable quantities and then celebrate their achievements
3. let dopamine do the rest

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this as a comment on another thread, but I think it's odd how many posters here are averse to pushing their kid and having them develop an amazing work ethic (the #1 key to success!) all because they're worried that they'll harm their fragile snowflake's "mental health."


I demand that my kid (who is of fairly average intelligence -- 110 IQ) take the most rigorous classes offered at their school (a "W" school), try their best to get straight As (so far successful except for 1 B sophomore year), participate in a sport, play an instrument, work a (crappy, minimum wage) summer job, and be active in community service. DC doesn't want to do any of this (they are naturally very lazy), but I push them academically and extracurricularly because it forms a well-rounded human being. Not for the sake of college admissions, not for the sake of impressing an AO, but for the sake of developing a work ethic that'll launch them into success in college and beyond. Too many Americans these days lack a strong work ethic.

And for some reason, the parents on here think that all of this will destroy my kid's mental health. The best thing you can do for your kid's mental health is to build grit and resilience, as well as normalize failure. That's why I demand that my kid try their best at activities that are naturally outside of their comfort zone. It seems as though this is a common approach to successful and well-rounded kids; the ones who are the healthiest and happiest in DC's friend group are the ones who are pushed by their parents to do things outside of their comfort zone while normalizing failure and not being the best at everything you do. And the ones in DC's friend group with the most mental health issues are the ones with coddling parents who try to shelter their kid from every potential failure while not pushing them to step outside of their comfort zone.

I will answer you honestly, OP.
I don't push my children to develop an "amazing work ethic" because I'm not a 1st generation immigrant.

My parents parents were and they - when finally blessed with the opportunity- did what you are describing. My parents went to the best colleges, work day in, day out and weekends and got ahead in high pressure, high stakes, high paying jobs. And were miserable

.
We all would have been happier with parents who were around more, who took better care of their mental and spiritual health, who enjoyed hobbies and life vs having the best house, the best cars. The best clothes, etc.

You will notice that 20 years ago the doctors and lawyers were Jewish because their parents fled oppression post ww2 and pushed their children to work as hard as possible and it paid off financially. But they aren't pushing their children to follow in their footsteps for a reason. Now all the doctors and lawyers are middle or far eastern who are going through the same cycle.

We take stock of what's important and it's more of a whole person vs hard work ethic. Besides, the working world has changed and hard work and loyalty don't pay off as they used to anyway.

funny thing about cycles... the cycle doesn't end with happy, well-adjusted kids enjoying life at leisurely pace. it ends with their kids (if not them) abusing drugs and falling back to poverty level.

So interesting! Let's see tye historical record of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this as a comment on another thread, but I think it's odd how many posters here are averse to pushing their kid and having them develop an amazing work ethic (the #1 key to success!) all because they're worried that they'll harm their fragile snowflake's "mental health."


I demand that my kid (who is of fairly average intelligence -- 110 IQ) take the most rigorous classes offered at their school (a "W" school), try their best to get straight As (so far successful except for 1 B sophomore year), participate in a sport, play an instrument, work a (crappy, minimum wage) summer job, and be active in community service. DC doesn't want to do any of this (they are naturally very lazy), but I push them academically and extracurricularly because it forms a well-rounded human being. Not for the sake of college admissions, not for the sake of impressing an AO, but for the sake of developing a work ethic that'll launch them into success in college and beyond. Too many Americans these days lack a strong work ethic.

And for some reason, the parents on here think that all of this will destroy my kid's mental health. The best thing you can do for your kid's mental health is to build grit and resilience, as well as normalize failure. That's why I demand that my kid try their best at activities that are naturally outside of their comfort zone. It seems as though this is a common approach to successful and well-rounded kids; the ones who are the healthiest and happiest in DC's friend group are the ones who are pushed by their parents to do things outside of their comfort zone while normalizing failure and not being the best at everything you do. And the ones in DC's friend group with the most mental health issues are the ones with coddling parents who try to shelter their kid from every potential failure while not pushing them to step outside of their comfort zone.

I will answer you honestly, OP.
I don't push my children to develop an "amazing work ethic" because I'm not a 1st generation immigrant.

My parents parents were and they - when finally blessed with the opportunity- did what you are describing. My parents went to the best colleges, work day in, day out and weekends and got ahead in high pressure, high stakes, high paying jobs. And were miserable

.
We all would have been happier with parents who were around more, who took better care of their mental and spiritual health, who enjoyed hobbies and life vs having the best house, the best cars. The best clothes, etc.

You will notice that 20 years ago the doctors and lawyers were Jewish because their parents fled oppression post ww2 and pushed their children to work as hard as possible and it paid off financially. But they aren't pushing their children to follow in their footsteps for a reason. Now all the doctors and lawyers are middle or far eastern who are going through the same cycle.

We take stock of what's important and it's more of a whole person vs hard work ethic. Besides, the working world has changed and hard work and loyalty don't pay off as they used to anyway.

As a first generation immigrant, I can assure you that being a whole person is important for us too. It's just much less affordable for those who weren't here for generations. "I must study politics and war..." and so on. Hopefully my grandchildren will be able to study art history without scolding others for their perceived ignorance regarding the overall well being.