Why are people here so averse to pushing their kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Work ethic is different than having the most rigorous course load. My daughter was an average student. Nothing I could do could change that, except for spending tons of money in tutors and we did for a little, but it added stress and she only marginally improved. Terrible test taker.

My daughter has strengths that outweigh a rigorous course load any day. She is punctual, articulate, speaks well with adults, and takes her job seriously and with pride. She takes care of her appearance. She is courteous to all. She is not lazy and very driven. Just because she didn’t take AP classes means nothing about work ethic or the drive to succeed.

Why do you think this is incompatiable with being an academic high achiever?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this as a comment on another thread, but I think it's odd how many posters here are averse to pushing their kid and having them develop an amazing work ethic (the #1 key to success!) all because they're worried that they'll harm their fragile snowflake's "mental health."


I demand that my kid (who is of fairly average intelligence -- 110 IQ) take the most rigorous classes offered at their school (a "W" school), try their best to get straight As (so far successful except for 1 B sophomore year), participate in a sport, play an instrument, work a (crappy, minimum wage) summer job, and be active in community service. DC doesn't want to do any of this (they are naturally very lazy), but I push them academically and extracurricularly because it forms a well-rounded human being. Not for the sake of college admissions, not for the sake of impressing an AO, but for the sake of developing a work ethic that'll launch them into success in college and beyond. Too many Americans these days lack a strong work ethic.

And for some reason, the parents on here think that all of this will destroy my kid's mental health. The best thing you can do for your kid's mental health is to build grit and resilience, as well as normalize failure. That's why I demand that my kid try their best at activities that are naturally outside of their comfort zone. It seems as though this is a common approach to successful and well-rounded kids; the ones who are the healthiest and happiest in DC's friend group are the ones who are pushed by their parents to do things outside of their comfort zone while normalizing failure and not being the best at everything you do. And the ones in DC's friend group with the most mental health issues are the ones with coddling parents who try to shelter their kid from every potential failure while not pushing them to step outside of their comfort zone.

Did it work? Meaning, did the work ethic last past the time in which they are under your control (in college, there would be monetary control.)

OP here. DC is a rising HS senior, so only the future will tell. But what I do know is that NO ONE I know IRL has told me that they regret their parents pushing them -- it's only "I'm so grateful that my parents pushed me."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree, OP. It’s an unpopular opinion for sure, though. Older kids and teens have been busy and productive for generations. Being productive and becoming good at something brings a lot of satisfaction and confidence. I do believe in down time to clear head, think, day dreaming and socialize. That’s also very important.

Yes, exactly. Weird seeing everyone here scream about "burn out" and how much they resent their parents. Seems like they're blaming their parents for every single problem in life and refuse to take responsibility.

[Anonymous]

I think you have to encourage your kids yet at the same time be supportive and understanding. Every child is a bit different but in general they respond better to positive reinforcements. Not sure how well frequent punishments work in the long term but I suspect that they somehow need to become self-motivated and understand that they have our full support. Not trying to say I have it all figured out. Still learning with my adult kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have four adult children of well above average intelligence and privilege. I did have high expectations of them, and in retrospect they were too high. My expectations didn't put their "mental health" at risk, but it did put our relationship at risk. I know what you're thinking -- that's a risk worth taking, because they'll thank you for pushing them when they're adults -- but you need to recognize that there's a thin line between pushing and pushing too hard.

If you push too hard, and your kid doesn't rise to your expectations, they're still likely to end up just fine as adults generally and mental health wise, but not think very well of you as a parent have a strained relationship with you. I'm lucky that that hasn't happened with me, but it easily could have, and it did happen with a lot my kids' friends and their parents.

Your kid is still young, OP. With the benefit of hindsight, I can tell you that most of things that you have outlined in your litany of expectations mean very little to adult success and happiness in the long run. Your strategy is high risk for low reward.

Of course, I don't expect that you'll actually listen to my advice or any of the other sound advice being offered here. Clearly, that's not why you're here.

OP here. Okay, so there's a thin line between pushing and pushing too hard. Where do you think that line is? I don't think I'm anywhere close to it, at least compared to the parents around me (travel sports parents are the most aggressive when it comes to pushing IME). But how did you realize that you pushed too hard instead of appropriately? Did your own kids tell you? IMO kids are not the best judges of whether our parenting was appropriate or not.

[Anonymous]

I frequently say I don't push my kids in the interest of their mental health, but my oldest is in all the most advanced courses and is pretty advanced in a sport. DC2 (a rising fifth grader) is pretty talented in his various interests and will likely be in the advanced courses.

It sounds like my kids are naturally where you want your kids to be. Don't you think it would be weird if I pushed them for more? I could push both of them more and they would maybe be the best of the best in something, maybe be writing published research papers in high school or winning hackathons, but...why? To what end?

If you think it would be unnecessary for me to push my kids more, maybe you can understand why I think it's unnecessary for everybody to push their kids. I don't see anything inherently wrong with being slightly below average, honestly.

Also, what you're doing might not be "pushing" in some parents' minds. Good grades, summer job, community service, an instrument...that could be "pushing" in some peoples' minds but I think it really depends on how many hours you demand and how much you have to threaten to get your kid to do what you want to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Work ethic is different than having the most rigorous course load. My daughter was an average student. Nothing I could do could change that, except for spending tons of money in tutors and we did for a little, but it added stress and she only marginally improved. Terrible test taker.

My daughter has strengths that outweigh a rigorous course load any day. She is punctual, articulate, speaks well with adults, and takes her job seriously and with pride. She takes care of her appearance. She is courteous to all. She is not lazy and very driven. Just because she didn’t take AP classes means nothing about work ethic or the drive to succeed.

Why do you think this is incompatiable with being an academic high achiever?

I thought OP cared about "work ethic." But obviously, that's a lie, as it is with most parents who talk like this. They really care about results. If her kid could get straight As and make the varsity basketball team and whatever other resume lines she values without working especially hard, she wouldn't care. If her kid worked his tail off for Cs, she wouldn't be proud of her results.

Also, PP didn't say that her daughter's good qualities were "incompatible" with being a high achiever, but that they were not sufficient to make her daughter a high achiever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree, OP. It’s an unpopular opinion for sure, though. Older kids and teens have been busy and productive for generations. Being productive and becoming good at something brings a lot of satisfaction and confidence. I do believe in down time to clear head, think, day dreaming and socialize. That’s also very important.

Yes, exactly. Weird seeing everyone here scream about "burn out" and how much they resent their parents. Seems like they're blaming their parents for every single problem in life and refuse to take responsibility.

Or they're just trying to do things better?

[Anonymous]

NP here. I admit that I do push my kids (now upperclassmen in HS who have each taken 12+ APs, had multiple jobs, perform at a high level in ECs, do substantial volunteer work, help around the house and manage their own laundry, drive, etc), but they are amenable to being pushed and always have been. We didn't use carrots OR sticks. We openly discuss how they are doing all the time. If they had mental, emotional or other issues around the goals set in our house, I think I would readjust pronto. It's not worth it because in the end, most people end up in the same place. I want to have raised kids that thrive in their own adult lives.

[Anonymous]

We pushed our kids and they all turned out fine and successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree, OP. It’s an unpopular opinion for sure, though. Older kids and teens have been busy and productive for generations. Being productive and becoming good at something brings a lot of satisfaction and confidence. I do believe in down time to clear head, think, day dreaming and socialize. That’s also very important.

Yes, exactly. Weird seeing everyone here scream about "burn out" and how much they resent their parents. Seems like they're blaming their parents for every single problem in life and refuse to take responsibility.

Evidence that they are blaming their parents "for every single problem in life" and "refusing to take responsibility"? Or even "screaming"? Again, you are clearly not asking anything in good faith. People can think that they way they were raised was not healthy or good without becoming the straw man you made up in your head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Work ethic is different than having the most rigorous course load. My daughter was an average student. Nothing I could do could change that, except for spending tons of money in tutors and we did for a little, but it added stress and she only marginally improved. Terrible test taker.

My daughter has strengths that outweigh a rigorous course load any day. She is punctual, articulate, speaks well with adults, and takes her job seriously and with pride. She takes care of her appearance. She is courteous to all. She is not lazy and very driven. Just because she didn’t take AP classes means nothing about work ethic or the drive to succeed.

Why do you think this is incompatiable with being an academic high achiever?

It is not that is incompatible, but straight A’s in the highest classes is not a guarantee for success either. Don’t we all know the real-estate agent or salesperson who barely made it through high school and are very successful now?

[Anonymous]

A while ago I read this thread and it haunts me. DD suffers from severe emotional issues. One commenter said “now I make absolutely clear to them that their mental health is the most important thing,” and that stuck with me. I will always do that.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1008012.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Work ethic is different than having the most rigorous course load. My daughter was an average student. Nothing I could do could change that, except for spending tons of money in tutors and we did for a little, but it added stress and she only marginally improved. Terrible test taker.

My daughter has strengths that outweigh a rigorous course load any day. She is punctual, articulate, speaks well with adults, and takes her job seriously and with pride. She takes care of her appearance. She is courteous to all. She is not lazy and very driven. Just because she didn’t take AP classes means nothing about work ethic or the drive to succeed.

Why do you think this is incompatiable with being an academic high achiever?

It is not that is incompatible, but straight A’s in the highest classes is not a guarantee for success either. Don’t we all know the real-estate agent or salesperson who barely made it through high school and are very successful now?

Maybe that's the difference. I don't want my kids to grow up to real estate agent or salesperson no matter how successful they maybe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have four adult children of well above average intelligence and privilege. I did have high expectations of them, and in retrospect they were too high. My expectations didn't put their "mental health" at risk, but it did put our relationship at risk. I know what you're thinking -- that's a risk worth taking, because they'll thank you for pushing them when they're adults -- but you need to recognize that there's a thin line between pushing and pushing too hard.

If you push too hard, and your kid doesn't rise to your expectations, they're still likely to end up just fine as adults generally and mental health wise, but not think very well of you as a parent have a strained relationship with you. I'm lucky that that hasn't happened with me, but it easily could have, and it did happen with a lot my kids' friends and their parents.

Your kid is still young, OP. With the benefit of hindsight, I can tell you that most of things that you have outlined in your litany of expectations mean very little to adult success and happiness in the long run. Your strategy is high risk for low reward.

Of course, I don't expect that you'll actually listen to my advice or any of the other sound advice being offered here. Clearly, that's not why you're here.

OP here. Okay, so there's a thin line between pushing and pushing too hard. Where do you think that line is? I don't think I'm anywhere close to it, at least compared to the parents around me (travel sports parents are the most aggressive when it comes to pushing IME). But how did you realize that you pushed too hard instead of appropriately? Did your own kids tell you? IMO kids are not the best judges of whether our parenting was appropriate or not.

I knew at the time that I was pushing pretty hard, and had you asked me then I would have been like you and said I don't think I was pushing too hard, but as adults they let me know that yes, at times, I pushed too hard.

It really doesn't matter, though, because again you're really not here for advice anyway.

Also, you're being disingenuous when you say you're not doing what you're doing for college admissions purposes. First, what you're forcing your kid to do looks a lot like lines 1-4 in a college application. Second, you're posting on the college admissions thread and not, say, the teen/tween thread.

You're a Tiger Mom. Maybe it'll work, and maybe it won't. And when your kid is an adult maybe you'll have a good relationship or maybe you won't. But playing a sport in high school, for example, will not have a meaningful impact on your kid's success or happiness as an adult. Of that I can assure you.