Midwife charged in DC? Karen Carr, CPM...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I do not get is that this baby would have died even if they had had a hospital birth. Mistakes happen in hospitals and babies die there too.
A breech vaginal birth can be in a hospital. And sometimes they end in death and nothing happens.
I know some women who have had stillborn babies. It happens and the doctors and staff carry on working

Very unlikely if she would have had a c section, as she had been advised.

[Anonymous]

I thought Dr Tchabo agreed to attend her vaginal breech birth but that he was going to be out of town for a while and may not be there when she went into labor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I do not get is that this baby would have died even if they had had a hospital birth. Mistakes happen in hospitals and babies die there too.
A breech vaginal birth can be in a hospital. And sometimes they end in death and nothing happens.
I know some women who have had stillborn babies. It happens and the doctors and staff carry on working

Very unlikely if she would have had a c section, as she had been advised.

doctors advise a c-section with almost every labor. Even so, she could have had the vaginal breach baby in a hospital. Sometimes those end in deaths, as do c-sections, as do normal vaginal births, etc etc. Sometimes the caregivers in hospital make mistakes.

[Anonymous]

doctors advise a c-section with almost every labor. Even so, she could have had the vaginal breach baby in a hospital. Sometimes those end in deaths, as do c-sections, as do normal vaginal births, etc etc. Sometimes the caregivers in hospital make mistakes.

Oh, bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I do not get is that this baby would have died even if they had had a hospital birth. Mistakes happen in hospitals and babies die there too.
A breech vaginal birth can be in a hospital. And sometimes they end in death and nothing happens.
I know some women who have had stillborn babies. It happens and the doctors and staff carry on working

Very unlikely if she would have had a c section, as she had been advised.

doctors advise a c-section with almost every labor. Even so, she could have had the vaginal breach baby in a hospital. Sometimes those end in deaths, as do c-sections, as do normal vaginal births, etc etc. Sometimes the caregivers in hospital make mistakes.

The bolded is completely ridiculous. The c-section rate in this country is nearly 1 in 3, which most people would agree is too high, but to say that doctors advise it with "almost every labor" is nonsense. Then why do 2/3 of births NOT c-sections?

And for about the millionth time, no one is disputing that babies die in hospitals, and that doctors make mistakes, and blahdeblahdeblah ad infinitum. The point is, THIS particular mother in THIS particular situation was not a good candidate for homebirth. And now a baby is dead. Could the baby have died in the hospital? Sure. They could have gotten in a deadly car accident on the way to the hospital, too.

But were her odds a helluva lot better with a c-section in a hospital? Undeniable-- YES. Should this particular woman with this particular pregnancy given birth in a hospital? I think the result speaks for itself.

I am all in favor of women making choices about how and where she gives birth, and that includes giving birth at home. But people like you make the whole homebirth movement look stupid with comments like this. Unless, of course, you're some kind of troll who is trying to do exactly that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I am all in favor of women making choices about how and where she gives birth, and that includes giving birth at home. But people like you make the whole homebirth movement look stupid with comments like this. Unless, of course, you're some kind of troll who is trying to do exactly that.

I never thought of myself as that
but I have 2 close friends who have had still births.
What are you after? Victimizing women or criminalizing people who want something more than assembly line care?
Or are you trying to deny this could not have happened in a hospital?
If her health was that much at risk, she would not have been able to have a home birth. The midwives actually work with the doctors, not against them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am all in favor of women making choices about how and where she gives birth, and that includes giving birth at home. But people like you make the whole homebirth movement look stupid with comments like this. Unless, of course, you're some kind of troll who is trying to do exactly that.

I never thought of myself as that
but I have 2 close friends who have had still births.
What are you after? Victimizing women or criminalizing people who want something more than assembly line care?
Or are you trying to deny this could not have happened in a hospital?
If her health was that much at risk, she would not have been able to have a home birth. The midwives actually work with the doctors, not against them

What "her"? The mother in this case? Her homebirth certainly wasn't condoned by an OB, and Karen Carr, illegal midwife, doesn't work with OBs.

I'm very sorry for your friends, but the intrapartum mortality rate is 0.3/1000 in the US. That is, the rate at which a baby is alive at the beginning of labor and born dead. It's very, very rare for a baby to start labor alive and be born dead in a hospital.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What "her"? The mother in this case? Her homebirth certainly wasn't condoned by an OB, and Karen Carr, illegal midwife, doesn't work with OBs.

I'm very sorry for your friends, but the intrapartum mortality rate is 0.3/1000 in the US. That is, the rate at which a baby is alive at the beginning of labor and born dead. It's very, very rare for a baby to start labor alive and be born dead in a hospital.

and it does happen
it also happens that the baby is born alive and then dies in a hospital

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am all in favor of women making choices about how and where she gives birth, and that includes giving birth at home. But people like you make the whole homebirth movement look stupid with comments like this. Unless, of course, you're some kind of troll who is trying to do exactly that.

I never thought of myself as that
but I have 2 close friends who have had still births.
What are you after? Victimizing women or criminalizing people who want something more than assembly line care?
Or are you trying to deny this could not have happened in a hospital?
If her health was that much at risk, she would not have been able to have a home birth. The midwives actually work with the doctors, not against them

Victimizing? Criminalizing? How in the world are you getting that from my post? You are a nut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What "her"? The mother in this case? Her homebirth certainly wasn't condoned by an OB, and Karen Carr, illegal midwife, doesn't work with OBs.

I'm very sorry for your friends, but the intrapartum mortality rate is 0.3/1000 in the US. That is, the rate at which a baby is alive at the beginning of labor and born dead. It's very, very rare for a baby to start labor alive and be born dead in a hospital.

and it does happen
it also happens that the baby is born alive and then dies in a hospital

Yes, it does happen, as I just said. It also happens very, very rarely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am all in favor of women making choices about how and where she gives birth, and that includes giving birth at home. But people like you make the whole homebirth movement look stupid with comments like this. Unless, of course, you're some kind of troll who is trying to do exactly that.

I never thought of myself as that
but I have 2 close friends who have had still births.
What are you after? Victimizing women or criminalizing people who want something more than assembly line care?
Or are you trying to deny this could not have happened in a hospital?
If her health was that much at risk, she would not have been able to have a home birth. The midwives actually work with the doctors, not against them

Midwives like Karen Carr who go against OBs recommendation and their own peers' recommendations and work with neither to take precautions against their warnings victimize women on their own. She chooses against being licenced even when she can so she criminanlizes herself on her own as well. Complete disservice to women AND her profession.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am all in favor of women making choices about how and where she gives birth, and that includes giving birth at home. But people like you make the whole homebirth movement look stupid with comments like this. Unless, of course, you're some kind of troll who is trying to do exactly that.

I never thought of myself as that
but I have 2 close friends who have had still births.
What are you after? Victimizing women or criminalizing people who want something more than assembly line care?
Or are you trying to deny this could not have happened in a hospital?
If her health was that much at risk, she would not have been able to have a home birth. The midwives actually work with the doctors, not against them

What "her"? The mother in this case? Her homebirth certainly wasn't condoned by an OB, and Karen Carr, illegal midwife, doesn't work with OBs.

I'm very sorry for your friends, but the intrapartum mortality rate is 0.3/1000 in the US. That is, the rate at which a baby is alive at the beginning of labor and born dead. It's very, very rare for a baby to start labor alive and be born dead in a hospital.

Obviously you have a great deal of hatred for direct entry midwives, and I suppose that is your right. However, many highly educated women disagree with you. Additionally, while you may think you know all the details of this particular case, YOU DO NOT. In this case, no one advised the mother that she must have a cesarean. The OB she consulted with agreed to attend a vaginal breech delivery with her. Also, Karen Carr does in fact collaborate with some local OBs - not that you would know this, because you have an intense bias against CPMs and make sweeping statements about them without knowing the facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am all in favor of women making choices about how and where she gives birth, and that includes giving birth at home. But people like you make the whole homebirth movement look stupid with comments like this. Unless, of course, you're some kind of troll who is trying to do exactly that.

I never thought of myself as that
but I have 2 close friends who have had still births.
What are you after? Victimizing women or criminalizing people who want something more than assembly line care?
Or are you trying to deny this could not have happened in a hospital?
If her health was that much at risk, she would not have been able to have a home birth. The midwives actually work with the doctors, not against them

What "her"? The mother in this case? Her homebirth certainly wasn't condoned by an OB, and Karen Carr, illegal midwife, doesn't work with OBs.

I'm very sorry for your friends, but the intrapartum mortality rate is 0.3/1000 in the US. That is, the rate at which a baby is alive at the beginning of labor and born dead. It's very, very rare for a baby to start labor alive and be born dead in a hospital.

Obviously you have a great deal of hatred for direct entry midwives, and I suppose that is your right. However, many highly educated women disagree with you. Additionally, while you may think you know all the details of this particular case, YOU DO NOT. In this case, no one advised the mother that she must have a cesarean. The OB she consulted with agreed to attend a vaginal breech delivery with her. Also, Karen Carr does in fact collaborate with some local OBs - not that you would know this, because you have an intense bias against CPMs and make sweeping statements about them without knowing the facts.

I also meant to say, that it is pretty much a straw man to say that "her homebirth wasn't condoned by an OB", because, well, there aren't any OBs who condone homebirth. ACOG continues to put out statements which damn homebirth, based on studies which have been completely discredited. Which, interestingly enough, contributes to women's perceptions that OBs lie and cannot be trusted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am all in favor of women making choices about how and where she gives birth, and that includes giving birth at home. But people like you make the whole homebirth movement look stupid with comments like this. Unless, of course, you're some kind of troll who is trying to do exactly that.

I never thought of myself as that
but I have 2 close friends who have had still births.
What are you after? Victimizing women or criminalizing people who want something more than assembly line care?
Or are you trying to deny this could not have happened in a hospital?
If her health was that much at risk, she would not have been able to have a home birth. The midwives actually work with the doctors, not against them

What "her"? The mother in this case? Her homebirth certainly wasn't condoned by an OB, and Karen Carr, illegal midwife, doesn't work with OBs.

I'm very sorry for your friends, but the intrapartum mortality rate is 0.3/1000 in the US. That is, the rate at which a baby is alive at the beginning of labor and born dead. It's very, very rare for a baby to start labor alive and be born dead in a hospital.

Obviously you have a great deal of hatred for direct entry midwives, and I suppose that is your right. However, many highly educated women disagree with you. Additionally, while you may think you know all the details of this particular case, YOU DO NOT. In this case, no one advised the mother that she must have a cesarean. The OB she consulted with agreed to attend a vaginal breech delivery with her. Also, Karen Carr does in fact collaborate with some local OBs - not that you would know this, because you have an intense bias against CPMs and make sweeping statements about them without knowing the facts.

I have an intense bias against CPMs who don't have enough knowledge to take on high-risk cases, and then take them on anyway. Babies die that way. And I call bs that Carr "collaborates" with local OBs. OBs have to carry malpractice insurance, and anyone actually collaborating with them (CNMs, for example) falls under the umbrella of that insurance. Since Carr has demonstrated that she won't be limited by the law or common sense, all she would have to offer in such a "collaboration" is an increased risk of getting sued. So no, I don't believe for a minute that she "collaborates" with OBs. She might have someone who will help her get some prenatal testing done, but that's about it. Collaboration doesn't mean "I do what I want until I mess up and then you fix it." Collaboration means that everyone on the team is on the same page regarding patient care.

Also, I will take what statistics say over what "highly educated women" say when choosing the safest course for my family. To do otherwise is certainly your right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am all in favor of women making choices about how and where she gives birth, and that includes giving birth at home. But people like you make the whole homebirth movement look stupid with comments like this. Unless, of course, you're some kind of troll who is trying to do exactly that.

I never thought of myself as that
but I have 2 close friends who have had still births.
What are you after? Victimizing women or criminalizing people who want something more than assembly line care?
Or are you trying to deny this could not have happened in a hospital?
If her health was that much at risk, she would not have been able to have a home birth. The midwives actually work with the doctors, not against them

What "her"? The mother in this case? Her homebirth certainly wasn't condoned by an OB, and Karen Carr, illegal midwife, doesn't work with OBs.

I'm very sorry for your friends, but the intrapartum mortality rate is 0.3/1000 in the US. That is, the rate at which a baby is alive at the beginning of labor and born dead. It's very, very rare for a baby to start labor alive and be born dead in a hospital.

Obviously you have a great deal of hatred for direct entry midwives, and I suppose that is your right. However, many highly educated women disagree with you. Additionally, while you may think you know all the details of this particular case, YOU DO NOT. In this case, no one advised the mother that she must have a cesarean. The OB she consulted with agreed to attend a vaginal breech delivery with her. Also, Karen Carr does in fact collaborate with some local OBs - not that you would know this, because you have an intense bias against CPMs and make sweeping statements about them without knowing the facts.

And "doctor agreeing to vaginal breech delivery if he's available" =/= "doctor agreed that homebirth breech delivery with CPM is a good idea." Those 2 ideas are so far apart I can't believe you're even trying to go there.