That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, he's a dirtbag, but so is the judge who decided a long prison sentence would have too severe an impact on him. Severe impact is exactly what this guy needs, not just a quick time out.

+1
Exactly!

Seriously, for "20 minutes of action"!

Wtf

OMG couldn't agree more. WTF is wrong with Brock Turner, his parents, and the judge?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is truly all about entitlement. Brock was raised that way. He thought he could just take what he wanted. But he got caught and now he has to pay the price. However, his entitled parents and entitled judge who went to his same university think he shouldn't have to pay the price. Entitlement, bottom line.

You have a terrible grasp of our legal and judiciary system. Anonymous strangers are affecting the career of a well-respected judge out of ignorance and knee-jerk groupthink.

Mmm, it's kinda more than that. One of the jurors wrote to the judge about how disappointed he is in the sentence. A prosecutor, who obviously knows the legal and judiciary system, asked that the judge be removed from an upcoming sexual assault case. It's not just FB idiots. It's beyond that.

NP here, an attorney, and absolutely agree that this case is all about entitlement, socio-economic status, and white male privilege. Anyone who believes our legal and judiciary system are not impacted by those things is in a state of naivety that I envy.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So now the women's swim team at Stanford speak up about Brock's creepy behavior but they were pressured not to go forward.

Thanks for posting this. It's being reported here: http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/brock-turner-stanford-women-s-swim-team-105204

O.k. I think that this is significant new info. If women on the Stanford swim team felt threatened and creeped out by him - both during practice and at parties, it indicates a much stronger pattern of disturbing behavior leading up to this sexual assault.

I was having a hard time seeing a regular nice guy suddenly - out of the blue - snapping and purposefully sexually assaulting a woman. But if there was a pattern of increasing aggressive/creepy behavior....that would make more sense.

I think this is what many of us were trying to get at when everyone was wringing their hands about how such a nice boy could do this: we've known men like this who can present nice in one direction, but are creepy and criminal in another. The Brocks of the world aren't nice to all of us.

Sorry. I was seeing young, inexperienced guy being led behind the dumpster by an older heavy drinker. I still wonder about that whole scenario and how on earth (why!!) they wound up back there. Not all women are nice to men either...but you're right there are some guys who appear one way in front of the crowd and are completely different around their prey.

I was getting a different picture from the interviews with witnesses in the police reports and released court documents. There is no witness evidence that he was "led" anywhere. She was 22 and he was 19 at the time of the incident, so not such a big difference in age.

And in terms of drinking, she had not been drinking much in the months leading up to the incident. He, on the other hand, had been drinking heavily the whole time he was at Stanford, according to his own letter and had even been charged with MIP during the fall. There is also photo and text evidence of his use of marijuana and acid, so he seemed to have experience with the effects of both drugs and alcohol. Add in the witness testimony that he had been kissing and grabbing women without their permission at the party just shortly before the timeline places him with Emily when the Swedes rode by on their bikes and I was seeing a picture that correlated with the jury verdict of guilty.

She was a self described "party animal" in her college days. She had a tolerance if she was able to drink 4 shots in quick succession and her mom was willing to drop her off on a college campus...the girl is a drinker. She may have been drinking less than normal in the months leading up to this but the girl had a BAC 3X the legal limit. She was drinking cups of vodka.

You can not with a straight face call that a "light" drinker. And you can not compare her experience to that of a 4 month freshman. You can't. They are vast worlds apart in experience.

Lots of people like to say they were "party animals" in their college days. It is not all that meaningful a term. It can just as easily describe someone who liked going out dancing as someone who drank a lot. The fact is that in the months leading up to this particular night in January of 2015, Emily had not been drinking much. Her sister was home for the weekend and she decided to spend time with her and her other friends and they were all drinking. The defendant was also drinking with his friends that night, and there is ample evidence that he had been using alcohol and drugs for at least the year prior to this particular night. He was familiar with the sight of drunk and high people.

The bolded above is the picture produced in my mind by the court documents that have been released.

Being familiar with the sight of drunk and high kids is actually not the same thing as being familiar with habitual heavy drinking, which Brock is not familiar with. You don't go from light drinker to downing shots in front of your own mom and drinking cups of vodka and still looking "fine" to your much less drunk sister. The girl stayed at the party drinking after her sister had left.

Brock is not the one minimizing the amount of alcohol he drank. He has said that he never wants to drink again.

By four months into my freshman year of college, I was as familiar with habitual heavy drinking as I am now. If he was going to parties regularly, why are you insisting that he had no idea what he was doing?

He was not the one with 3X the legal limit BAC. He hung around with other competitive athletes - they dabbled in drugs and alcohol. They were not blacking out and passing out behind dumpsters and swimming laps the next day or even the day after that.

It takes time to get to that level.

Omg-what in the world is wrong with you? Happily, you are in the (widely despised) minority on this issue.

You think that Brock was a drug addict/alcoholic AND an Olympic hopeful? Really?

Michael Phelps says hi.

Duh.

[Anonymous]

You think that Brock was a drug addict/alcoholic AND an Olympic hopeful? Really?

Michael Phelps says hi.

Duh.

Lol seriously. I'm so amused by the posters who think Brock must have been such a good boy because he was accomplished and had great potential. Um, those personality types are often more, not less, likely to party hard and develop drug habits.

[Anonymous]

Phelps issues with drugs/alcohol happened after he had already peaked in his sport. He was going through a time of questioning whether or not he wanted to still devote so much of his life to swimming. He was feeling burned out, he was a household name and his partying got out of control. He landed in rehab.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There is no question in my mind that BAT committed a crime here. Not debatable.

My question is: what mother drives her daughters (who have been doing shots of whiskey) to a frat party?!!!

I know. That got me too.

Out of curiosity, are you more interested in that or what kind of mother raises a serial groper/liar/creeper/sex-offender/felon?

Did Brock's mother help him assault Emily? No. So you are out of line. Sometimes kids with good and decent parents do things that good parents would never condone.

This has been an absolute nightmare for Brock's family. But I do wonder about a mother who would drop her daughter off drunk at a college campus. That is just really odd.

I am asking the question because pp was so curious about Emily's mother dropping her off at a frat party. I agree Brocks mom isn't responsible for his crime (though she is for her cringe-worthy letter to the judge) however the idea that somehow the victim's mom is fair game for criticism but the person responsible for sending this sex offender out into the world isn't is insane.

By all indications, Brock's parents have done an admirable job of raising 3 young adults. They've put in the time/effort/love, they know their kids and they stand behind their kids. Brock's mom has doubts that her son did this. She is reeling. This has been devastating. She is not about to lay her baby on the tracks and just watch the train run over him. She is fighting for him. And she will be behind him every step. You don't raise a kid through cub scouts and popcorn sales, early AM swimming practices, evening and weekend meets, first dates and prom and then just give up on his life.

Dropping your drunk daughter off on college campus is weird though. I hope that is not a new trend....

Well, duh, most parents will defend their children and say there is no way they can act in that manner. But I didn't know you are so acquainted with Brock's family to know they have done an admirable job raising their kids. Because what we see and hear in public is always a perfect indicator of the types of people we are, right?

It's nice how you can make judgments about Emily's mom by her one action.

Brock's parents did everything right with their kids. I've read their story and I understand their anguish. I don't know anything about Emily's mom other than this business of dropping her drunk daughter off but, as a parent, I relate more to the type of parenting that Brock's parents were doing. I don't see any fault there and I think it's really low of people to accuse them of condoning rape. They don't condone anything of the kind. They do, however, believe in their son.

This is so very odd. A Brock groupie. Maybe you can contact him once he is released from jail and help him get a job, etc. You would at least be taking positive action, rather than trying to tear down the person he violated.

Anyone who says that Emily's drinking was not completely out of control and extremely dangerous that night is an enabler who is doing her a disservice by minimizing how harmful her drinking was that night. She needs to wise up and reign that in or she will be dead by the time she's 30. No joke.

I am not a "Brock groupie". But I also do not choose to demonize and blame this guy for everything under the sun that went wrong that night. He was wrong and he is paying a high price for what he did. That does not mean that Emily did not hurt herself. Calling her a light drinker or minimizing the horrific consequences of passing out the way that she did is not doing that girl any favors.

But if you think that a parent dropping their drunk daughter off on a college campus is fine, then maybe you just plain aren't going to ever get it.

If you give a sh*t about THAT girl you would not try to give her a pass on that drinking.

Is it you that keeps talking about the victim's drinking over and over and over and calling her a heavy drinker and out of control and nah nah nah? You have no way to know these things and your insistence on beating this dead horse that has *absolutely no bearing* on whether Brock Turner is (a) a dirtbag (he is) and (b) guilty (he is) is seriously fucked up. What is your deal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no question in my mind that BAT committed a crime here. Not debatable.

My question is: what mother drives her daughters (who have been doing shots of whiskey) to a frat party?!!!

I know. That got me too.

Out of curiosity, are you more interested in that or what kind of mother raises a serial groper/liar/creeper/sex-offender/felon?

Did Brock's mother help him assault Emily? No. So you are out of line. Sometimes kids with good and decent parents do things that good parents would never condone.

This has been an absolute nightmare for Brock's family. But I do wonder about a mother who would drop her daughter off drunk at a college campus. That is just really odd.

I am asking the question because pp was so curious about Emily's mother dropping her off at a frat party. I agree Brocks mom isn't responsible for his crime (though she is for her cringe-worthy letter to the judge) however the idea that somehow the victim's mom is fair game for criticism but the person responsible for sending this sex offender out into the world isn't is insane.

By all indications, Brock's parents have done an admirable job of raising 3 young adults. They've put in the time/effort/love, they know their kids and they stand behind their kids. Brock's mom has doubts that her son did this. She is reeling. This has been devastating. She is not about to lay her baby on the tracks and just watch the train run over him. She is fighting for him. And she will be behind him every step. You don't raise a kid through cub scouts and popcorn sales, early AM swimming practices, evening and weekend meets, first dates and prom and then just give up on his life.

Dropping your drunk daughter off on college campus is weird though. I hope that is not a new trend....

Well, duh, most parents will defend their children and say there is no way they can act in that manner. But I didn't know you are so acquainted with Brock's family to know they have done an admirable job raising their kids. Because what we see and hear in public is always a perfect indicator of the types of people we are, right?

It's nice how you can make judgments about Emily's mom by her one action.

Brock's parents did everything right with their kids. I've read their story and I understand their anguish. I don't know anything about Emily's mom other than this business of dropping her drunk daughter off but, as a parent, I relate more to the type of parenting that Brock's parents were doing. I don't see any fault there and I think it's really low of people to accuse them of condoning rape. They don't condone anything of the kind. They do, however, believe in their son.

This is so very odd. A Brock groupie. Maybe you can contact him once he is released from jail and help him get a job, etc. You would at least be taking positive action, rather than trying to tear down the person he violated.

Anyone who says that Emily's drinking was not completely out of control and extremely dangerous that night is an enabler who is doing her a disservice by minimizing how harmful her drinking was that night. She needs to wise up and reign that in or she will be dead by the time she's 30. No joke.

I am not a "Brock groupie". But I also do not choose to demonize and blame this guy for everything under the sun that went wrong that night. He was wrong and he is paying a high price for what he did. That does not mean that Emily did not hurt herself. Calling her a light drinker or minimizing the horrific consequences of passing out the way that she did is not doing that girl any favors.

But if you think that a parent dropping their drunk daughter off on a college campus is fine, then maybe you just plain aren't going to ever get it.

If you give a sh*t about THAT girl you would not try to give her a pass on that drinking.

Is it you that keeps talking about the victim's drinking over and over and over and calling her a heavy drinker and out of control and nah nah nah? You have no way to know these things and your insistence on beating this dead horse that has *absolutely no bearing* on whether Brock Turner is (a) a dirtbag (he is) and (b) guilty (he is) is seriously fucked up. What is your deal?

PP - it clearly has no legal bearing. He was convicted. It only explains how Emily could have appeared to be less drunk than she was to Brock. Maybe you don't find that to be a relevant detail at all. But I think it's an important thing for people to consider whenever they go to parties like that. Just because a person looks fine to you does not mean that they are fine. High tolerance can mask how drunk a person is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no question in my mind that BAT committed a crime here. Not debatable.

My question is: what mother drives her daughters (who have been doing shots of whiskey) to a frat party?!!!

I know. That got me too.

Out of curiosity, are you more interested in that or what kind of mother raises a serial groper/liar/creeper/sex-offender/felon?

Did Brock's mother help him assault Emily? No. So you are out of line. Sometimes kids with good and decent parents do things that good parents would never condone.

This has been an absolute nightmare for Brock's family. But I do wonder about a mother who would drop her daughter off drunk at a college campus. That is just really odd.

I am asking the question because pp was so curious about Emily's mother dropping her off at a frat party. I agree Brocks mom isn't responsible for his crime (though she is for her cringe-worthy letter to the judge) however the idea that somehow the victim's mom is fair game for criticism but the person responsible for sending this sex offender out into the world isn't is insane.

By all indications, Brock's parents have done an admirable job of raising 3 young adults. They've put in the time/effort/love, they know their kids and they stand behind their kids. Brock's mom has doubts that her son did this. She is reeling. This has been devastating. She is not about to lay her baby on the tracks and just watch the train run over him. She is fighting for him. And she will be behind him every step. You don't raise a kid through cub scouts and popcorn sales, early AM swimming practices, evening and weekend meets, first dates and prom and then just give up on his life.

Dropping your drunk daughter off on college campus is weird though. I hope that is not a new trend....

Well, duh, most parents will defend their children and say there is no way they can act in that manner. But I didn't know you are so acquainted with Brock's family to know they have done an admirable job raising their kids. Because what we see and hear in public is always a perfect indicator of the types of people we are, right?

It's nice how you can make judgments about Emily's mom by her one action.

Brock's parents did everything right with their kids. I've read their story and I understand their anguish. I don't know anything about Emily's mom other than this business of dropping her drunk daughter off but, as a parent, I relate more to the type of parenting that Brock's parents were doing. I don't see any fault there and I think it's really low of people to accuse them of condoning rape. They don't condone anything of the kind. They do, however, believe in their son.

This is so very odd. A Brock groupie. Maybe you can contact him once he is released from jail and help him get a job, etc. You would at least be taking positive action, rather than trying to tear down the person he violated.

Anyone who says that Emily's drinking was not completely out of control and extremely dangerous that night is an enabler who is doing her a disservice by minimizing how harmful her drinking was that night. She needs to wise up and reign that in or she will be dead by the time she's 30. No joke.

I am not a "Brock groupie". But I also do not choose to demonize and blame this guy for everything under the sun that went wrong that night. He was wrong and he is paying a high price for what he did. That does not mean that Emily did not hurt herself. Calling her a light drinker or minimizing the horrific consequences of passing out the way that she did is not doing that girl any favors.

But if you think that a parent dropping their drunk daughter off on a college campus is fine, then maybe you just plain aren't going to ever get it.

If you give a sh*t about THAT girl you would not try to give her a pass on that drinking.

Is it you that keeps talking about the victim's drinking over and over and over and calling her a heavy drinker and out of control and nah nah nah? You have no way to know these things and your insistence on beating this dead horse that has *absolutely no bearing* on whether Brock Turner is (a) a dirtbag (he is) and (b) guilty (he is) is seriously fucked up. What is your deal?

PP - it clearly has no legal bearing. He was convicted. It only explains how Emily could have appeared to be less drunk than she was to Brock. Maybe you don't find that to be a relevant detail at all. But I think it's an important thing for people to consider whenever they go to parties like that. Just because a person looks fine to you does not mean that they are fine. High tolerance can mask how drunk a person is.

I would worry more about the underage drinker and drug user who pretends he can't tell when someone has lost consciousness. That's effed up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this article is true it's very disturbing.

Stanford women's swim team members say they were pressured not to speak about Turner
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/16/stanford-womens-swim-team-members-say-were-pressured-not-to-speak-about-turner.html

Someone on another site said that if this information is true, it could constitute obstruction of justice and those involved in telling swim team members not to write letters to the judge could be charged. Any lawyers here know if this is true, even when these are just letters going to the defendant's character, not whether or not he committed the crimes he was accused of?

[Anonymous]

Good grief.. Some drunk dude fingers a drunk girl, and you get a 125-page thread, with posters expressing their hopes he gets gang-raped in prison.

Where is the 125-page thread about the radicalized Islamic terrorist and his wife who sent him love notes as he was in the midst of his killing spree? Maybe this evil woman deserves a fraction of the hate you're focusing on the Brockster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good grief.. Some drunk dude fingers a drunk girl, and you get a 125-page thread, with posters expressing their hopes he gets gang-raped in prison.

Where is the 125-page thread about the radicalized Islamic terrorist and his wife who sent him love notes as he was in the midst of his killing spree? Maybe this evil woman deserves a fraction of the hate you're focusing on the Brockster.

Irritated people placing blame on victim and minimizing sexual assault=letting the terrorists win

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good grief.. Some drunk dude fingers a drunk girl, and you get a 125-page thread, with posters expressing their hopes he gets gang-raped in prison.

Where is the 125-page thread about the radicalized Islamic terrorist and his wife who sent him love notes as he was in the midst of his killing spree? Maybe this evil woman deserves a fraction of the hate you're focusing on the Brockster.

Irritated people placing blame on victim and minimizing sexual assault=letting the terrorists win

Or misplaced priorities as to far greater threats from men and the women who support them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this article is true it's very disturbing.

Stanford women's swim team members say they were pressured not to speak about Turner
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/16/stanford-womens-swim-team-members-say-were-pressured-not-to-speak-about-turner.html

Someone on another site said that if this information is true, it could constitute obstruction of justice and those involved in telling swim team members not to write letters to the judge could be charged. Any lawyers here know if this is true, even when these are just letters going to the defendant's character, not whether or not he committed the crimes he was accused of?

I'm a lawyer and I don't think so. Even without charges this would create huge problems and people would be fired. The female swimmers would have to come out with it without being anonymous and they may not be willing to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good grief.. Some drunk dude fingers a drunk girl, and you get a 125-page thread, with posters expressing their hopes he gets gang-raped in prison.

Where is the 125-page thread about the radicalized Islamic terrorist and his wife who sent him love notes as he was in the midst of his killing spree? Maybe this evil woman deserves a fraction of the hate you're focusing on the Brockster.

Irritated people placing blame on victim and minimizing sexual assault=letting the terrorists win

Or misplaced priorities as to far greater threats from men and the women who support them.

A lot more women in the US are sexually assaulted than are harmed in terrorist attacks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Phelps issues with drugs/alcohol happened after he had already peaked in his sport. He was going through a time of questioning whether or not he wanted to still devote so much of his life to swimming. He was feeling burned out, he was a household name and his partying got out of control. He landed in rehab.

Which time? Phelps has had multiple issues with drugs and alcohol between Olympics.