Duggar son allegedly molested girls including sisters

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can deal in hypotheticals all day long or we can take the word of the now adult victims. Instead we are doubting them and calling them stupid and brainwashed. How kind.

Your first mistake is in thinking we think they're stupid and brainwashed. Your second mistake is in not seeing their cult programming for what it is: minimize anything that will damage first their church or second their brand. Sexual crimes by men and boys are minimized, ignored, blamed on the victim, especially if they're female. These women were abused twice - first by their brother, and second by their parents' inexcusable inaction. For over a year until the "safeguards" - after which the five year old was sexually assaulted, mind you - were finally put into place.

Then we should definitely throw Josh in jail FOREVER and rip Jessa, Jill and the three others away from their lives for deprogramming. Then lets put the other 14 children into the CPS system and put JimBob and Michelle on house arrest. Because f*ck this is the worst situation to happen EVER.

Or we could realize this happened over a decade ago and was dealt with and not a single victim has come out saying they were irreparably damaged or recently felt up by Josh.

JFC. I give up. Do you work for ATI? Is this how you wear down reluctant members?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can deal in hypotheticals all day long or we can take the word of the now adult victims. Instead we are doubting them and calling them stupid and brainwashed. How kind.

Your first mistake is in thinking we think they're stupid and brainwashed. Your second mistake is in not seeing their cult programming for what it is: minimize anything that will damage first their church or second their brand. Sexual crimes by men and boys are minimized, ignored, blamed on the victim, especially if they're female. These women were abused twice - first by their brother, and second by their parents' inexcusable inaction. For over a year until the "safeguards" - after which the five year old was sexually assaulted, mind you - were finally put into place.

Then we should definitely throw Josh in jail FOREVER and rip Jessa, Jill and the three others away from their lives for deprogramming. Then lets put the other 14 children into the CPS system and put JimBob and Michelle on house arrest. Because f*ck this is the worst situation to happen EVER.

Or we could realize this happened over a decade ago and was dealt with and not a single victim has come out saying they were irreparably damaged or recently felt up by Josh.

Literally no one suggested that. You are really having a hard time being reasonable about this. What I'd like to see happen is real counseling for those girls, and some real counseling for Josh, to make sure this isn't something that will recur. And for the parents to admit taht they made a mistake in how they handled it by not protecting their girls. (Hello, they didn't protect them -- it recurred and recurred for a year!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what happened 12 years ago in the Duggar family was sad and unfortunate. I think they handled it well. I can understand that the parents felt they dealt with the situation the best way they knew how. The girls were unaware. They put safeguards in place. When it happened again, by Josh's admission, they sent him away for counseling. I just don't know what else should have happened in this case.

This was touching over the clothing of sleeping girls. They responded. When it continued and was under clothing and awake, they responded.

Is there anything that someone who understands what the Duggars did here and understands that they did the best they could can say here?

I don't think that's good enough, and don't think they did the best they could. They did not get *real* counseling for Josh. They sent him to a Christian youth camp. Not good enough. And they didn't get any real counseling for the daughters. And locking them in their room isn't good enough, or even a safe thing to do.

In your opinion it wasn't good enough.\ in your opinion it wasn't "real". They as parents thought it was the best choice for the situation they were dealing with. They have a right to make a choice that they feel is best for their family.

Yes, in my opinion. And in your opinion it is good enough. And a parents' rights have limits. Failing to protect your daughters from a molester isn't a right.

For all we know they did protect them. After Josh confessed again and they took more serious action we have no evidence of this happening again.

We know for certain that they did not protect them. After it happened once that he confessed to, they allowed it to happen again. To a 5 year old. Great job protecting them. But, you know, they're girls so they're expendable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason why the molester needs to be prosecuted is to stop them from repeating their actions. A victim often feels it was only them being abused, but it's not about the victim, it's about the abuser. Five victims for Duggar. Bill Cosby started with one victim, now numerous have come forward. Sandusky at Penn Stand numerous victims. I saw on TV the Brown daughters, the father was abusing 3 of the five kids and each thought they were the only one being abused for years. The reason it is so important to come forward and prosecute is so that there are no more victims. I recall a famous gymnast settled out of court with her trainer who abused her, only to find out 20 years later he was abusjng another young gymnast. She said her biggest regret was taking the settlement money and not prosecuting - because perhaps that might have prevented another child from being harmed by her abuser.

And they don't always get prosecuted. And not all molestors keep doing it once they get caught and/or realize what they did was wrong.

But Josh's sisters had to tell on him several times and his behavior was escalating - that doesn't seem like someone who was going to stop. I do believe that, sadly, this is just the tip of the iceberg. His wife should take the kids and get out.

The sisters have said they were not aware of what was happening.

The same two who were reading from a script, coached by a PR crisis manager and have had obedience literally beaten into them by a family that puts the blame for sex outside certain strict strictures entirely on women?

In you opinion. Some people take people's word at face value.

I'm confused as to why you think it's appropriate to take a molester's word at face value. You do know that many of them lie to cover up or minimize their activities, right?

Reading comprehension is your friend. The PPs were talking about Jessa and Jill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what happened 12 years ago in the Duggar family was sad and unfortunate. I think they handled it well. I can understand that the parents felt they dealt with the situation the best way they knew how. The girls were unaware. They put safeguards in place. When it happened again, by Josh's admission, they sent him away for counseling. I just don't know what else should have happened in this case.

This was touching over the clothing of sleeping girls. They responded. When it continued and was under clothing and awake, they responded.

Is there anything that someone who understands what the Duggars did here and understands that they did the best they could can say here?

I don't think that's good enough, and don't think they did the best they could. They did not get *real* counseling for Josh. They sent him to a Christian youth camp. Not good enough. And they didn't get any real counseling for the daughters. And locking them in their room isn't good enough, or even a safe thing to do.

In your opinion it wasn't good enough.\ in your opinion it wasn't "real". They as parents thought it was the best choice for the situation they were dealing with. They have a right to make a choice that they feel is best for their family.

Yes, in my opinion. And in your opinion it is good enough. And a parents' rights have limits. Failing to protect your daughters from a molester isn't a right.

For all we know they did protect them. After Josh confessed again and they took more serious action we have no evidence of this happening again.

We know for certain that they did not protect them. After it happened once that he confessed to, they allowed it to happen again. To a 5 year old. Great job protecting them. But, you know, they're girls so they're expendable.

They thought the safeguards would work. F*ck them right? Because as parents we never make mistakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can deal in hypotheticals all day long or we can take the word of the now adult victims. Instead we are doubting them and calling them stupid and brainwashed. How kind.

Your first mistake is in thinking we think they're stupid and brainwashed. Your second mistake is in not seeing their cult programming for what it is: minimize anything that will damage first their church or second their brand. Sexual crimes by men and boys are minimized, ignored, blamed on the victim, especially if they're female. These women were abused twice - first by their brother, and second by their parents' inexcusable inaction. For over a year until the "safeguards" - after which the five year old was sexually assaulted, mind you - were finally put into place.

Then we should definitely throw Josh in jail FOREVER and rip Jessa, Jill and the three others away from their lives for deprogramming. Then lets put the other 14 children into the CPS system and put JimBob and Michelle on house arrest. Because f*ck this is the worst situation to happen EVER.

Or we could realize this happened over a decade ago and was dealt with and not a single victim has come out saying they were irreparably damaged or recently felt up by Josh.

Literally no one suggested that. You are really having a hard time being reasonable about this. What I'd like to see happen is real counseling for those girls, and some real counseling for Josh, to make sure this isn't something that will recur. And for the parents to admit taht they made a mistake in how they handled it by not protecting their girls. (Hello, they didn't protect them -- it recurred and recurred for a year!)

Pretty close to some of the things suggested.

Even if they did all that, people would still hate them. Because you know, christians, conservatives. They are the literal devil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can deal in hypotheticals all day long or we can take the word of the now adult victims. Instead we are doubting them and calling them stupid and brainwashed. How kind.

Your first mistake is in thinking we think they're stupid and brainwashed. Your second mistake is in not seeing their cult programming for what it is: minimize anything that will damage first their church or second their brand. Sexual crimes by men and boys are minimized, ignored, blamed on the victim, especially if they're female. These women were abused twice - first by their brother, and second by their parents' inexcusable inaction. For over a year until the "safeguards" - after which the five year old was sexually assaulted, mind you - were finally put into place.

Then we should definitely throw Josh in jail FOREVER and rip Jessa, Jill and the three others away from their lives for deprogramming. Then lets put the other 14 children into the CPS system and put JimBob and Michelle on house arrest. Because f*ck this is the worst situation to happen EVER.

Or we could realize this happened over a decade ago and was dealt with and not a single victim has come out saying they were irreparably damaged or recently felt up by Josh.

JFC. I give up. Do you work for ATI? Is this how you wear down reluctant members?

Curious, do you think there is only one Duggar supporter in this thread?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason why the molester needs to be prosecuted is to stop them from repeating their actions. A victim often feels it was only them being abused, but it's not about the victim, it's about the abuser. Five victims for Duggar. Bill Cosby started with one victim, now numerous have come forward. Sandusky at Penn Stand numerous victims. I saw on TV the Brown daughters, the father was abusing 3 of the five kids and each thought they were the only one being abused for years. The reason it is so important to come forward and prosecute is so that there are no more victims. I recall a famous gymnast settled out of court with her trainer who abused her, only to find out 20 years later he was abusjng another young gymnast. She said her biggest regret was taking the settlement money and not prosecuting - because perhaps that might have prevented another child from being harmed by her abuser.

And they don't always get prosecuted. And not all molestors keep doing it once they get caught and/or realize what they did was wrong.

But Josh's sisters had to tell on him several times and his behavior was escalating - that doesn't seem like someone who was going to stop. I do believe that, sadly, this is just the tip of the iceberg. His wife should take the kids and get out.

The sisters have said they were not aware of what was happening.

The same two who were reading from a script, coached by a PR crisis manager and have had obedience literally beaten into them by a family that puts the blame for sex outside certain strict strictures entirely on women?

In you opinion. Some people take people's word at face value.

I'm confused as to why you think it's appropriate to take a molester's word at face value. You do know that many of them lie to cover up or minimize their activities, right?

Reading comprehension is your friend. The PPs were talking about Jessa and Jill.

No, I know what you meant. But you've said that "we take people's words at face value" thing over and over again in this thread, not just about them. How do Jill and Jessa know if Josh molested others after he was sent to ATI camp?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what happened 12 years ago in the Duggar family was sad and unfortunate. I think they handled it well. I can understand that the parents felt they dealt with the situation the best way they knew how. The girls were unaware. They put safeguards in place. When it happened again, by Josh's admission, they sent him away for counseling. I just don't know what else should have happened in this case.

This was touching over the clothing of sleeping girls. They responded. When it continued and was under clothing and awake, they responded.

Is there anything that someone who understands what the Duggars did here and understands that they did the best they could can say here?

I don't think that's good enough, and don't think they did the best they could. They did not get *real* counseling for Josh. They sent him to a Christian youth camp. Not good enough. And they didn't get any real counseling for the daughters. And locking them in their room isn't good enough, or even a safe thing to do.

In your opinion it wasn't good enough.\ in your opinion it wasn't "real". They as parents thought it was the best choice for the situation they were dealing with. They have a right to make a choice that they feel is best for their family.

Yes, in my opinion. And in your opinion it is good enough. And a parents' rights have limits. Failing to protect your daughters from a molester isn't a right.

For all we know they did protect them. After Josh confessed again and they took more serious action we have no evidence of this happening again.

We know for certain that they did not protect them. After it happened once that he confessed to, they allowed it to happen again. To a 5 year old. Great job protecting them. But, you know, they're girls so they're expendable.

They thought the safeguards would work. F*ck them right? Because as parents we never make mistakes.

If they were saying they had made mistakes, I would be judging them much less harshly. They don't admit any mistakes in this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what happened 12 years ago in the Duggar family was sad and unfortunate. I think they handled it well. I can understand that the parents felt they dealt with the situation the best way they knew how. The girls were unaware. They put safeguards in place. When it happened again, by Josh's admission, they sent him away for counseling. I just don't know what else should have happened in this case.

This was touching over the clothing of sleeping girls. They responded. When it continued and was under clothing and awake, they responded.

Is there anything that someone who understands what the Duggars did here and understands that they did the best they could can say here?

I don't think that's good enough, and don't think they did the best they could. They did not get *real* counseling for Josh. They sent him to a Christian youth camp. Not good enough. And they didn't get any real counseling for the daughters. And locking them in their room isn't good enough, or even a safe thing to do.

In your opinion it wasn't good enough.\ in your opinion it wasn't "real". They as parents thought it was the best choice for the situation they were dealing with. They have a right to make a choice that they feel is best for their family.

Yes, in my opinion. And in your opinion it is good enough. And a parents' rights have limits. Failing to protect your daughters from a molester isn't a right.

For all we know they did protect them. After Josh confessed again and they took more serious action we have no evidence of this happening again.

We know for certain that they did not protect them. After it happened once that he confessed to, they allowed it to happen again. To a 5 year old. Great job protecting them. But, you know, they're girls so they're expendable.

They thought the safeguards would work. F*ck them right? Because as parents we never make mistakes.

Oh, "Oopsie! I guess sending him to his room without dessert for molesting his sisters wasn't good enough!" Shocker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can deal in hypotheticals all day long or we can take the word of the now adult victims. Instead we are doubting them and calling them stupid and brainwashed. How kind.

Your first mistake is in thinking we think they're stupid and brainwashed. Your second mistake is in not seeing their cult programming for what it is: minimize anything that will damage first their church or second their brand. Sexual crimes by men and boys are minimized, ignored, blamed on the victim, especially if they're female. These women were abused twice - first by their brother, and second by their parents' inexcusable inaction. For over a year until the "safeguards" - after which the five year old was sexually assaulted, mind you - were finally put into place.

Then we should definitely throw Josh in jail FOREVER and rip Jessa, Jill and the three others away from their lives for deprogramming. Then lets put the other 14 children into the CPS system and put JimBob and Michelle on house arrest. Because f*ck this is the worst situation to happen EVER.

Or we could realize this happened over a decade ago and was dealt with and not a single victim has come out saying they were irreparably damaged or recently felt up by Josh.

Literally no one suggested that. You are really having a hard time being reasonable about this. What I'd like to see happen is real counseling for those girls, and some real counseling for Josh, to make sure this isn't something that will recur. And for the parents to admit taht they made a mistake in how they handled it by not protecting their girls. (Hello, they didn't protect them -- it recurred and recurred for a year!)

Pretty close to some of the things suggested.

Even if they did all that, people would still hate them. Because you know, christians, conservatives. They are the literal devil.

Nope. You're pretending that's the motivation so you can continue to portray them as victims. I know and love many conservative Christians. They wouldn't do this to their daughters.

[Anonymous]

So odd how much energy people put into them, rather than in protecting their own children right at home; I mean at school. Before we know it, there'll be yet another arrest for teacher molesting another child. Right here. Anyone care?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason why the molester needs to be prosecuted is to stop them from repeating their actions. A victim often feels it was only them being abused, but it's not about the victim, it's about the abuser. Five victims for Duggar. Bill Cosby started with one victim, now numerous have come forward. Sandusky at Penn Stand numerous victims. I saw on TV the Brown daughters, the father was abusing 3 of the five kids and each thought they were the only one being abused for years. The reason it is so important to come forward and prosecute is so that there are no more victims. I recall a famous gymnast settled out of court with her trainer who abused her, only to find out 20 years later he was abusjng another young gymnast. She said her biggest regret was taking the settlement money and not prosecuting - because perhaps that might have prevented another child from being harmed by her abuser.

And they don't always get prosecuted. And not all molestors keep doing it once they get caught and/or realize what they did was wrong.

But Josh's sisters had to tell on him several times and his behavior was escalating - that doesn't seem like someone who was going to stop. I do believe that, sadly, this is just the tip of the iceberg. His wife should take the kids and get out.

The sisters have said they were not aware of what was happening.

The same two who were reading from a script, coached by a PR crisis manager and have had obedience literally beaten into them by a family that puts the blame for sex outside certain strict strictures entirely on women?

In you opinion. Some people take people's word at face value.

I'm confused as to why you think it's appropriate to take a molester's word at face value. You do know that many of them lie to cover up or minimize their activities, right?

Reading comprehension is your friend. The PPs were talking about Jessa and Jill.

No, I know what you meant. But you've said that "we take people's words at face value" thing over and over again in this thread, not just about them. How do Jill and Jessa know if Josh molested others after he was sent to ATI camp?

No I haven't that is the first time I have said that and that post was the first I had made in quite a while on this thread. You realize you are discussing with more than one other person on an anonymous forum right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what happened 12 years ago in the Duggar family was sad and unfortunate. I think they handled it well. I can understand that the parents felt they dealt with the situation the best way they knew how. The girls were unaware. They put safeguards in place. When it happened again, by Josh's admission, they sent him away for counseling. I just don't know what else should have happened in this case.

This was touching over the clothing of sleeping girls. They responded. When it continued and was under clothing and awake, they responded.

Is there anything that someone who understands what the Duggars did here and understands that they did the best they could can say here?

I don't think that's good enough, and don't think they did the best they could. They did not get *real* counseling for Josh. They sent him to a Christian youth camp. Not good enough. And they didn't get any real counseling for the daughters. And locking them in their room isn't good enough, or even a safe thing to do.

In your opinion it wasn't good enough.\ in your opinion it wasn't "real". They as parents thought it was the best choice for the situation they were dealing with. They have a right to make a choice that they feel is best for their family.

Yes, in my opinion. And in your opinion it is good enough. And a parents' rights have limits. Failing to protect your daughters from a molester isn't a right.

For all we know they did protect them. After Josh confessed again and they took more serious action we have no evidence of this happening again.

We know for certain that they did not protect them. After it happened once that he confessed to, they allowed it to happen again. To a 5 year old. Great job protecting them. But, you know, they're girls so they're expendable.

They thought the safeguards would work. F*ck them right? Because as parents we never make mistakes.

If they were saying they had made mistakes, I would be judging them much less harshly. They don't admit any mistakes in this.

In the interview they said this is what they thought was best. They said they were wrong, it wasn't enough because it happened again, so they took further action.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can deal in hypotheticals all day long or we can take the word of the now adult victims. Instead we are doubting them and calling them stupid and brainwashed. How kind.

Your first mistake is in thinking we think they're stupid and brainwashed. Your second mistake is in not seeing their cult programming for what it is: minimize anything that will damage first their church or second their brand. Sexual crimes by men and boys are minimized, ignored, blamed on the victim, especially if they're female. These women were abused twice - first by their brother, and second by their parents' inexcusable inaction. For over a year until the "safeguards" - after which the five year old was sexually assaulted, mind you - were finally put into place.

Then we should definitely throw Josh in jail FOREVER and rip Jessa, Jill and the three others away from their lives for deprogramming. Then lets put the other 14 children into the CPS system and put JimBob and Michelle on house arrest. Because f*ck this is the worst situation to happen EVER.

Or we could realize this happened over a decade ago and was dealt with and not a single victim has come out saying they were irreparably damaged or recently felt up by Josh.

Literally no one suggested that. You are really having a hard time being reasonable about this. What I'd like to see happen is real counseling for those girls, and some real counseling for Josh, to make sure this isn't something that will recur. And for the parents to admit taht they made a mistake in how they handled it by not protecting their girls. (Hello, they didn't protect them -- it recurred and recurred for a year!)

Pretty close to some of the things suggested.

Even if they did all that, people would still hate them. Because you know, christians, conservatives. They are the literal devil.

Nope. You're pretending that's the motivation so you can continue to portray them as victims. I know and love many conservative Christians. They wouldn't do this to their daughters.

Be honest, that is the motivation behind a great deal of the hatred and the need to spin this as worse than it is (and I agree this is bad). Maybe *you* specifically don't, but I doubt PP was speaking only about you.