How to push back against people who want to close schools AGAIN

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP: Support a vax drive for parents at your school, and if your school has kids 12+ then support a vax drive at the school for them. I believe that schools can get grants to fund one of the mobile vax sites.

Maybe that will help allay some parents' fears. (I doubt it but I can dream.)

I think you should also write to your admin and say you very strongly support IPL, basically saying what you said already here.

Op here— thanks. Im taking notes of the good constructive recommendations and will follow through.

I’d also demand answers about how masking will be enforced. I am certain in some schools it can’t be and won’t be. The behavior problems normally are too much to be handled. In the spring kids at my school flat out ignored masking and distancing. We can’t suspend kids for not masking, they are the same kids who won’t show up to online learning.

+1

People who are under the impression that all kids will wear masks and that anything will happen if they don’t hav never spent significant time in a DCPS school.

I mean, you aren't going to have perfect adherence to masking. There's no way to enforce this. We can hope for general adherence but perfection doesn't happen even with adults.

I’m referring to the kids who walk in the building wearing a mask, get to class, take it off, then refuse to wear it at all, and refuse to socially distance. There were multiple at my school last year.

Well, UK had no masking of kids under 12 and did not see a spike in in-school rates. So there's that. On a broader level, I assume kids who do that are at-risk. So shutting the schools down because a few of them may have behavior problems and refuse to mask doesn't make a ton of sense. If any pressure needs to be brought to bear, it should be on the principals to discipline kids for not wearing masks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP: Support a vax drive for parents at your school, and if your school has kids 12+ then support a vax drive at the school for them. I believe that schools can get grants to fund one of the mobile vax sites.

Maybe that will help allay some parents' fears. (I doubt it but I can dream.)

I think you should also write to your admin and say you very strongly support IPL, basically saying what you said already here.

Op here— thanks. Im taking notes of the good constructive recommendations and will follow through.

I’d also demand answers about how masking will be enforced. I am certain in some schools it can’t be and won’t be. The behavior problems normally are too much to be handled. In the spring kids at my school flat out ignored masking and distancing. We can’t suspend kids for not masking, they are the same kids who won’t show up to online learning.

+1

People who are under the impression that all kids will wear masks and that anything will happen if they don’t hav never spent significant time in a DCPS school.

I mean, you aren't going to have perfect adherence to masking. There's no way to enforce this. We can hope for general adherence but perfection doesn't happen even with adults.

I’m referring to the kids who walk in the building wearing a mask, get to class, take it off, then refuse to wear it at all, and refuse to socially distance. There were multiple at my school last year.

Well, UK had no masking of kids under 12 and did not see a spike in in-school rates. So there's that. On a broader level, I assume kids who do that are at-risk. So shutting the schools down because a few of them may have behavior problems and refuse to mask doesn't make a ton of sense. If any pressure needs to be brought to bear, it should be on the principals to discipline kids for not wearing masks.

Yeah I'm also wondering what this teacher thinks the solution is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, in addition to pushing for a vaccination drive at your school, another thing you can do is organize parents at your school around opting in to asymptomatic testing. Make the case for why everyone should opt in, help folks with the form, etc. The more people who participate in testing, the better off we will all be.

(This will be more effective than trying to change the testing plan that is in place or complaining that it is insufficient.)

Not sure more testing will help more than it hurts. Most positives will be false (statistically if overall prevalence is lower than the specificity of the test), or they will pick up asymptomatic cases that may not have spread. Sure, in some instances they will prevent transmission, but they will also cause a lot of unnecessary quarantines.

Exactly! Our school (not DCPS) is planning to do pooled testing on asymptomatic kids. I think it’s crazy since we don’t even know whether they even transmit! It’s going to cause so many false alarms and hand wringing.

Agree. More testing is NOT in the interest of those who want schools open. It’s in the interest of those who want maximum risk avoidance, don’t mind frequent quarantines, and are perhaps hoping for schools to switch to virtual instruction due to asymptomatic cases.

So we don’t test, have COVID running rampant through classrooms. Kids become symptomatic and then we quarantine anyway. Except this time it’s the whole class instead of just a couple of kids. Smart move.

Kids who feel sick can stay home. They can come back when they feel better. Just like with every other virus.

You realize the people are thought to be contagious before they are symptomatic?

You realize I don't think that preventing infections is worth keeping kids who feel well out of school at this point? Kids who feel sick should stay home to recover and because it's unpleasant to be in school when you're not well.

So you think a kid who feels okayish should just go to school, infect others, and then some if those kids have to stay home? Nice.

There is a reason kids are suppose to stay home a full 24 hours after the end of fever, diarrhea, etc. Generally, society expects others to not willfully spread highly-contagious diseases.

Finally, there are not all that many asymptomatic covid positives — usually “asymptomatic” means pre-symptomatic.

Your last sentence is completely wrong for kids. I work in a pediatric ED and fully 50% of our positives are incidents findings in kids there for unrelated reasons (we test everyone who might be admitted). I would guess that the asymptomatic rate in children is around 50%.

I think that kids' covid cases have been found to be 50-60% asymptomatic in large-scale population-survey studies in the UK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP: Support a vax drive for parents at your school, and if your school has kids 12+ then support a vax drive at the school for them. I believe that schools can get grants to fund one of the mobile vax sites.

Maybe that will help allay some parents' fears. (I doubt it but I can dream.)

I think you should also write to your admin and say you very strongly support IPL, basically saying what you said already here.

Op here— thanks. Im taking notes of the good constructive recommendations and will follow through.

I’d also demand answers about how masking will be enforced. I am certain in some schools it can’t be and won’t be. The behavior problems normally are too much to be handled. In the spring kids at my school flat out ignored masking and distancing. We can’t suspend kids for not masking, they are the same kids who won’t show up to online learning.

+1

People who are under the impression that all kids will wear masks and that anything will happen if they don’t hav never spent significant time in a DCPS school.

I mean, you aren't going to have perfect adherence to masking. There's no way to enforce this. We can hope for general adherence but perfection doesn't happen even with adults.

I’m referring to the kids who walk in the building wearing a mask, get to class, take it off, then refuse to wear it at all, and refuse to socially distance. There were multiple at my school last year.

Well, UK had no masking of kids under 12 and did not see a spike in in-school rates. So there's that. On a broader level, I assume kids who do that are at-risk. So shutting the schools down because a few of them may have behavior problems and refuse to mask doesn't make a ton of sense. If any pressure needs to be brought to bear, it should be on the principals to discipline kids for not wearing masks.

Never said anything about shutting down schools because of masking. I told OP, who said they were taking down notes of actionable items, to ask for answers about mask enforcement. That being said, I don’t trust a school to admit a kid wasn’t properly masking when a positive pops up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, in addition to pushing for a vaccination drive at your school, another thing you can do is organize parents at your school around opting in to asymptomatic testing. Make the case for why everyone should opt in, help folks with the form, etc. The more people who participate in testing, the better off we will all be.

(This will be more effective than trying to change the testing plan that is in place or complaining that it is insufficient.)

Not sure more testing will help more than it hurts. Most positives will be false (statistically if overall prevalence is lower than the specificity of the test), or they will pick up asymptomatic cases that may not have spread. Sure, in some instances they will prevent transmission, but they will also cause a lot of unnecessary quarantines.

Exactly! Our school (not DCPS) is planning to do pooled testing on asymptomatic kids. I think it’s crazy since we don’t even know whether they even transmit! It’s going to cause so many false alarms and hand wringing.

Agree. More testing is NOT in the interest of those who want schools open. It’s in the interest of those who want maximum risk avoidance, don’t mind frequent quarantines, and are perhaps hoping for schools to switch to virtual instruction due to asymptomatic cases.

So we don’t test, have COVID running rampant through classrooms. Kids become symptomatic and then we quarantine anyway. Except this time it’s the whole class instead of just a couple of kids. Smart move.

Kids who feel sick can stay home. They can come back when they feel better. Just like with every other virus.

You realize the people are thought to be contagious before they are symptomatic?

You realize I don't think that preventing infections is worth keeping kids who feel well out of school at this point? Kids who feel sick should stay home to recover and because it's unpleasant to be in school when you're not well.

So you think a kid who feels okayish should just go to school, infect others, and then some if those kids have to stay home? Nice.

There is a reason kids are suppose to stay home a full 24 hours after the end of fever, diarrhea, etc. Generally, society expects others to not willfully spread highly-contagious diseases.

Finally, there are not all that many asymptomatic covid positives — usually “asymptomatic” means pre-symptomatic.

Your last sentence is completely wrong for kids. I work in a pediatric ED and fully 50% of our positives are incidents findings in kids there for unrelated reasons (we test everyone who might be admitted). I would guess that the asymptomatic rate in children is around 50%.

I think that kids' covid cases have been found to be 50-60% asymptomatic in large-scale population-survey studies in the UK.

Was the study of Delta or before?

[Anonymous]

It's odd to me that the pediatric hospitalizations are being touted as a reason to close schools since

1) school spread isn't leading to these cases (since the kids aren't in school), and
2) the thing that IS leading to these cases -- parents not being vaccinated -- is completely ignored.

It's like the drive should be squarely aimed at parental vaccinations, but instead we throw up our hands and say "oh obviously anti-vaxxers gonna be anti-vaxxers, so let's just destroy all kids' education instead."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP: Support a vax drive for parents at your school, and if your school has kids 12+ then support a vax drive at the school for them. I believe that schools can get grants to fund one of the mobile vax sites.

Maybe that will help allay some parents' fears. (I doubt it but I can dream.)

I think you should also write to your admin and say you very strongly support IPL, basically saying what you said already here.

Op here— thanks. Im taking notes of the good constructive recommendations and will follow through.

I’d also demand answers about how masking will be enforced. I am certain in some schools it can’t be and won’t be. The behavior problems normally are too much to be handled. In the spring kids at my school flat out ignored masking and distancing. We can’t suspend kids for not masking, they are the same kids who won’t show up to online learning.

+1

People who are under the impression that all kids will wear masks and that anything will happen if they don’t hav never spent significant time in a DCPS school.

I mean, you aren't going to have perfect adherence to masking. There's no way to enforce this. We can hope for general adherence but perfection doesn't happen even with adults.

I’m referring to the kids who walk in the building wearing a mask, get to class, take it off, then refuse to wear it at all, and refuse to socially distance. There were multiple at my school last year.

Well, UK had no masking of kids under 12 and did not see a spike in in-school rates. So there's that. On a broader level, I assume kids who do that are at-risk. So shutting the schools down because a few of them may have behavior problems and refuse to mask doesn't make a ton of sense. If any pressure needs to be brought to bear, it should be on the principals to discipline kids for not wearing masks.

Never said anything about shutting down schools because of masking. I told OP, who said they were taking down notes of actionable items, to ask for answers about mask enforcement. That being said, I don’t trust a school to admit a kid wasn’t properly masking when a positive pops up.

DP. Unless the not-properly-masked at-risk kid was the one who tested positive, they should be allowed to continue to go to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP: Support a vax drive for parents at your school, and if your school has kids 12+ then support a vax drive at the school for them. I believe that schools can get grants to fund one of the mobile vax sites.

Maybe that will help allay some parents' fears. (I doubt it but I can dream.)

I think you should also write to your admin and say you very strongly support IPL, basically saying what you said already here.

Op here— thanks. Im taking notes of the good constructive recommendations and will follow through.

I’d also demand answers about how masking will be enforced. I am certain in some schools it can’t be and won’t be. The behavior problems normally are too much to be handled. In the spring kids at my school flat out ignored masking and distancing. We can’t suspend kids for not masking, they are the same kids who won’t show up to online learning.

+1

People who are under the impression that all kids will wear masks and that anything will happen if they don’t hav never spent significant time in a DCPS school.

I mean, you aren't going to have perfect adherence to masking. There's no way to enforce this. We can hope for general adherence but perfection doesn't happen even with adults.

I’m referring to the kids who walk in the building wearing a mask, get to class, take it off, then refuse to wear it at all, and refuse to socially distance. There were multiple at my school last year.

Well, UK had no masking of kids under 12 and did not see a spike in in-school rates. So there's that. On a broader level, I assume kids who do that are at-risk. So shutting the schools down because a few of them may have behavior problems and refuse to mask doesn't make a ton of sense. If any pressure needs to be brought to bear, it should be on the principals to discipline kids for not wearing masks.

Never said anything about shutting down schools because of masking. I told OP, who said they were taking down notes of actionable items, to ask for answers about mask enforcement. That being said, I don’t trust a school to admit a kid wasn’t properly masking when a positive pops up.

DP. Unless the not-properly-masked at-risk kid was the one who tested positive, they should be allowed to continue to go to school.

DP and what if the kid wouldn’t wear a mask all day at the kid who tested positive was in their class? Of course an unmasked kid should quarantine in that situation. Or stay out a few days and then get a negative test. Otherwise what’s the point of testing anyone at all if those exposed just keep coming to school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP: Support a vax drive for parents at your school, and if your school has kids 12+ then support a vax drive at the school for them. I believe that schools can get grants to fund one of the mobile vax sites.

Maybe that will help allay some parents' fears. (I doubt it but I can dream.)

I think you should also write to your admin and say you very strongly support IPL, basically saying what you said already here.

Op here— thanks. Im taking notes of the good constructive recommendations and will follow through.

I’d also demand answers about how masking will be enforced. I am certain in some schools it can’t be and won’t be. The behavior problems normally are too much to be handled. In the spring kids at my school flat out ignored masking and distancing. We can’t suspend kids for not masking, they are the same kids who won’t show up to online learning.

+1

People who are under the impression that all kids will wear masks and that anything will happen if they don’t hav never spent significant time in a DCPS school.

I mean, you aren't going to have perfect adherence to masking. There's no way to enforce this. We can hope for general adherence but perfection doesn't happen even with adults.

I’m referring to the kids who walk in the building wearing a mask, get to class, take it off, then refuse to wear it at all, and refuse to socially distance. There were multiple at my school last year.

Well, UK had no masking of kids under 12 and did not see a spike in in-school rates. So there's that. On a broader level, I assume kids who do that are at-risk. So shutting the schools down because a few of them may have behavior problems and refuse to mask doesn't make a ton of sense. If any pressure needs to be brought to bear, it should be on the principals to discipline kids for not wearing masks.

Never said anything about shutting down schools because of masking. I told OP, who said they were taking down notes of actionable items, to ask for answers about mask enforcement. That being said, I don’t trust a school to admit a kid wasn’t properly masking when a positive pops up.

DP. Unless the not-properly-masked at-risk kid was the one who tested positive, they should be allowed to continue to go to school.

DP and what if the kid wouldn’t wear a mask all day at the kid who tested positive was in their class? Of course an unmasked kid should quarantine in that situation. Or stay out a few days and then get a negative test. Otherwise what’s the point of testing anyone at all if those exposed just keep coming to school?

Well, I obviously think that exposed kids should keep coming to school. We could do daily antigen testing to see if they become contagious. And obviously if they start to feel sick, they need to stay home.

[Anonymous]

Our school has a room specifically designed gif kids who are either symptomatic or who refuse to wear masks. I think all elementary schools do (not sure about upper schools)? We didn’t get an in person spot in the spring but my understanding is that they were very strict about it. If you had symptoms or wouldn’t wear a mask, you went to the isolation room and parent/guardian was called for pick up. I assume it will be the same this year, with more kids and this more risk. It’s not actually that complicated. If schools are zero tolerance about it, parents will think twice about sending kids with symptoms in. It sucks for parents who have to work in person, but obviously closing schools is worse for this same population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's odd to me that the pediatric hospitalizations are being touted as a reason to close schools since

1) school spread isn't leading to these cases (since the kids aren't in school), and
2) the thing that IS leading to these cases -- parents not being vaccinated -- is completely ignored.

It's like the drive should be squarely aimed at parental vaccinations, but instead we throw up our hands and say "oh obviously anti-vaxxers gonna be anti-vaxxers, so let's just destroy all kids' education instead."

exactly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's odd to me that the pediatric hospitalizations are being touted as a reason to close schools since

1) school spread isn't leading to these cases (since the kids aren't in school), and
2) the thing that IS leading to these cases -- parents not being vaccinated -- is completely ignored.

It's like the drive should be squarely aimed at parental vaccinations, but instead we throw up our hands and say "oh obviously anti-vaxxers gonna be anti-vaxxers, so let's just destroy all kids' education instead."

exactly

Sometimes you need to advocate for fire retardants and sometimes you need to advocate for fire extinguishing.
Right now there are fires to put out. DCPS starts in 2 weeks, and there is a raging covid fire. We are an area of high covid transmission of a very high transmission variant, the school-age population is either unvacc'ed or undervacc'ed, and we've been told there will be fewer mitigation measures than last year.

Yes, let's vaccinate adults, but no, I don't think we should ignore the skyrocketing pediatric hospitalizations, and I don't think we should throw up our hands and say "oh, covid's gonna covid and let's just let all kids get it anyway at the same time."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's odd to me that the pediatric hospitalizations are being touted as a reason to close schools since

1) school spread isn't leading to these cases (since the kids aren't in school), and
2) the thing that IS leading to these cases -- parents not being vaccinated -- is completely ignored.

It's like the drive should be squarely aimed at parental vaccinations, but instead we throw up our hands and say "oh obviously anti-vaxxers gonna be anti-vaxxers, so let's just destroy all kids' education instead."

exactly

Sometimes you need to advocate for fire retardants and sometimes you need to advocate for fire extinguishing.
Right now there are fires to put out. DCPS starts in 2 weeks, and there is a raging covid fire. We are an area of high covid transmission of a very high transmission variant, the school-age population is either unvacc'ed or undervacc'ed, and we've been told there will be fewer mitigation measures than last year.

Yes, let's vaccinate adults, but no, I don't think we should ignore the skyrocketing pediatric hospitalizations, and I don't think we should throw up our hands and say "oh, covid's gonna covid and let's just let all kids get it anyway at the same time."

Pediatric hospitalizations aren’t skyrocketing in this area, despite kids having been in camps all summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Plus a million. Closing schools was and is distratous for poor and underprivileged children particularly (it is for everyone, but at least wealthy people can mitigate somewhat).

I want schools to be open 5 days per week as well. But please stop with the faux concern for the poor and underprivileged bc it’s trendy. I bet you’re one of those with the Black Lives Matter sign in your yard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's odd to me that the pediatric hospitalizations are being touted as a reason to close schools since

1) school spread isn't leading to these cases (since the kids aren't in school), and
2) the thing that IS leading to these cases -- parents not being vaccinated -- is completely ignored.

It's like the drive should be squarely aimed at parental vaccinations, but instead we throw up our hands and say "oh obviously anti-vaxxers gonna be anti-vaxxers, so let's just destroy all kids' education instead."

exactly

Sometimes you need to advocate for fire retardants and sometimes you need to advocate for fire extinguishing.
Right now there are fires to put out. DCPS starts in 2 weeks, and there is a raging covid fire. We are an area of high covid transmission of a very high transmission variant, the school-age population is either unvacc'ed or undervacc'ed, and we've been told there will be fewer mitigation measures than last year.

Yes, let's vaccinate adults, but no, I don't think we should ignore the skyrocketing pediatric hospitalizations, and I don't think we should throw up our hands and say "oh, covid's gonna covid and let's just let all kids get it anyway at the same time."

Pediatric hospitalizations aren’t skyrocketing in this area, despite kids having been in camps all summer.

That’s nice. Most camps have been largely or completely outdoors, and the indoors camps have taken more mitigation measures than schools plan to.