Kyle Rittenhouse: Vigilante White Men

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Watch what you are using as an argument. If it’s considered self defense to chase and attack the shooter with force then tue shooter could also claim that he would be allowed to chase and attack others. It just doesn't make sense. If you are fearing for your life then you should seek safe escape, not chase the person so that you end up engaged and at risk for a longer time than you would have otherwise.

Experience with mass shootings show otherwise.

+1

Run, Hide, Fight

OMG you are not supposed to chase down an armed attacker if you are unarmed. Maybe you are very confident in your empty hand skills because of all of your Tae Bo experience? You are supposed to run the OTHER way duhhh! And this isn't a mass shooting, so it's not really relevant.

You are not supposed to fight, but you can choose to if you think he is going to shoot you or someone else. How did they know he wasn't going to go shoot someone else?

Yes, you can do whatever you want. It's kind of sad how some people are picking sides based on politics an not actual facts and circumstances surrounding the incident. I'm just saying that their piss poor decisions contributed to their death. But your advice on tactics is great entertainment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Watch what you are using as an argument. If it’s considered self defense to chase and attack the shooter with force then tue shooter could also claim that he would be allowed to chase and attack others. It just doesn't make sense. If you are fearing for your life then you should seek safe escape, not chase the person so that you end up engaged and at risk for a longer time than you would have otherwise.

Experience with mass shootings show otherwise.

+1

Run, Hide, Fight

OMG you are not supposed to chase down an armed attacker if you are unarmed. Maybe you are very confident in your empty hand skills because of all of your Tae Bo experience? You are supposed to run the OTHER way duhhh! And this isn't a mass shooting, so it's not really relevant.

You are not supposed to fight, but you can choose to if you think he is going to shoot you or someone else. How did they know he wasn't going to go shoot someone else?

Yes, you can do whatever you want. It's kind of sad how some people are picking sides based on politics an not actual facts and circumstances surrounding the incident. I'm just saying that their piss poor decisions contributed to their death. But your advice on tactics is great entertainment

May you never be in a mass shooting, O wise one.

[Anonymous]

Did the armed white supremacists in Kenosha collaborate with the local police?


https://www.thenorthstar.com/shaun-king-armed-white-supremacist-in-kenosha-says-he-collaborated-and-strategized-with-local-police/?fbclid=IwAR2aq9l-yzz9bySlxoIK2biYcZiNUje6Eo8PKabJXwmImku_HjEsRf5LeXk

[Anonymous]

I’m very curious about how this conversation would go if the guy who chased the shooter had had a gun. In that scenario he would've been the proverbial Good Guy With A Gun, no? Isn’t that what you gun nuts always support? Are you now arguing the Good Guy With A Gun deserves to get shot? So his value and worth derives from the Gun part and not the Good Guy part?

So confusing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Watch what you are using as an argument. If it’s considered self defense to chase and attack the shooter with force then tue shooter could also claim that he would be allowed to chase and attack others. It just doesn't make sense. If you are fearing for your life then you should seek safe escape, not chase the person so that you end up engaged and at risk for a longer time than you would have otherwise.

Experience with mass shootings show otherwise.

+1

Run, Hide, Fight

OMG you are not supposed to chase down an armed attacker if you are unarmed. Maybe you are very confident in your empty hand skills because of all of your Tae Bo experience? You are supposed to run the OTHER way duhhh! And this isn't a mass shooting, so it's not really relevant.

You are not supposed to fight, but you can choose to if you think he is going to shoot you or someone else. How did they know he wasn't going to go shoot someone else?

Yes, you can do whatever you want. It's kind of sad how some people are picking sides based on politics an not actual facts and circumstances surrounding the incident. I'm just saying that their piss poor decisions contributed to their death. But your advice on tactics is great entertainment

That wasn't my advice and I am not picking sides based on politics. You are the one doing that.

It's a legal question. Are you legally entitled to chase an armed attacker if you believe he is he still a threat? Legally, yes.. Is it a bad idea? Absolutely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Watch what you are using as an argument. If it’s considered self defense to chase and attack the shooter with force then tue shooter could also claim that he would be allowed to chase and attack others. It just doesn't make sense. If you are fearing for your life then you should seek safe escape, not chase the person so that you end up engaged and at risk for a longer time than you would have otherwise.

Experience with mass shootings show otherwise.

+1

Run, Hide, Fight

OMG you are not supposed to chase down an armed attacker if you are unarmed. Maybe you are very confident in your empty hand skills because of all of your Tae Bo experience? You are supposed to run the OTHER way duhhh! And this isn't a mass shooting, so it's not really relevant.

I said that. It isn't always an option. Neither is 2. So sometimes you have to fight.

We don't know what preceded the fight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did the armed white supremacists in Kenosha collaborate with the local police?


https://www.thenorthstar.com/shaun-king-armed-white-supremacist-in-kenosha-says-he-collaborated-and-strategized-with-local-police/?fbclid=IwAR2aq9l-yzz9bySlxoIK2biYcZiNUje6Eo8PKabJXwmImku_HjEsRf5LeXk

Enough with Shaun King. I don't trust cops but I don't trust him either.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If the shooter had different-colored skin, the third victim would have been deemed a hero by the right for trying to disarm him with his own concealed Glock. The second victim would have been deemed a hero for trying to take him down with his skateboard.

Curious who the kid called after he killed the first person. And can you really KILL someone for grabbing you?! (We also don't know what happened before the video started)

And that was a plastic grocery bag with a light-ish object in it. It wasn't on fire and it certainly wasn't a Molotov cocktail.

I won’t speculate on Your other comments. The bag was on fire and look at how it flattened out and skidded when it hit the ground. That’s consistent with a liquid in the bag. Is your theory that somebody threw garbage at him while chasing him and then continued to chase him after the first shot?

Like I said above, people will see what they want to see (including me).

If only Kyle had been following the law...

Wonder what wil happen to his dad. A cop who knowingly committed a felony that directly led to multiple deaths.

If only the people shot had been following the law....

As for his dad, a lot of it will depend on whether Kyle is convicted or not. Think of it this way: if Kyle’s dad gave minor Kyle a gun and minor Kyle killed two home intruders in his home, nothing would happen to his dad. All of this is going to come down to whether Kyle was acting in self defense.

He illegally transported an illegal gun across state lines and fled the scene. Self-dfense doesn't even come into play because he committed multiple felonies just being there while armed.

Why would someone travel to another state’s protest armed unless you planned on killing someone? He was planning on killing protesters. He is a terrorist and should be charged as a terrorist.

The prosecutor will certainly argue that. The defense will say he is just a stupid kid who got in over his head.

The Prosecutor will not argue that. Or anything. The prosecutor announced today at 5 pm ET that unless there is pre-prosecution evidence at the beyond-reasonable-doubt level, there will be no cases brought. The prosecutor typically acts on the basis of probable cause plus interests-of-justice. The prosecutor has already decided to throw all of the cases.

Kenosha Police Chief Daniel Miskinis confirmed that a 17-year-old Antioch resident has been charged. CNN

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the armed white supremacists in Kenosha collaborate with the local police?


https://www.thenorthstar.com/shaun-king-armed-white-supremacist-in-kenosha-says-he-collaborated-and-strategized-with-local-police/?fbclid=IwAR2aq9l-yzz9bySlxoIK2biYcZiNUje6Eo8PKabJXwmImku_HjEsRf5LeXk

Enough with Shaun King. I don't trust cops but I don't trust him either.

Not clicking through, but I think people have had video that it looked like the cops were working with the terrorist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the armed white supremacists in Kenosha collaborate with the local police?


https://www.thenorthstar.com/shaun-king-armed-white-supremacist-in-kenosha-says-he-collaborated-and-strategized-with-local-police/?fbclid=IwAR2aq9l-yzz9bySlxoIK2biYcZiNUje6Eo8PKabJXwmImku_HjEsRf5LeXk

Enough with Shaun King. I don't trust cops but I don't trust him either.

Not clicking through, but I think people have had video that it looked like the cops were working with the terrorist.

Yes. Like I said, I don't trust them. And the video showing Rittenhouse ready to surrender and the cops just letting him be was batsht.

But Shaun King is a liar.

[Anonymous]

Shaun King is a POS but the video at that link actually has nothing to do with him. He just lifted it off Twitter.

Here’s the first time I saw it. It’s a white kid with a gun saying the cops had told them they would steer protestors their way. Unclear to me who is filming or where the video came from originally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"The people who were chasing him could have felt their life was in imminent danger. The dude was armed and loaded and was not a policeman. How did anyone know he wasn't going to start a mass shooting? Any aggression toward him was done in self-defense."

This.

No. Open carry and being locked and loaded *in and of itself* cannot trigger self defense or it would be open season on anybody who open carries. Clearly, that’s the wrong outcome. Imminent for self defense purposes has generally meant right away or concurrent. So, if it is 8 am and you believe your neighbor is going to shoot you at 5 pm, you can’t act in self defense at noon. Generally, imminent means about to happen right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"The people who were chasing him could have felt their life was in imminent danger. The dude was armed and loaded and was not a policeman. How did anyone know he wasn't going to start a mass shooting? Any aggression toward him was done in self-defense."

This.

No. Open carry and being locked and loaded *in and of itself* cannot trigger self defense or it would be open season on anybody who open carries. Clearly, that’s the wrong outcome. Imminent for self defense purposes has generally meant right away or concurrent. So, if it is 8 am and you believe your neighbor is going to shoot you at 5 pm, you can’t act in self defense at noon. Generally, imminent means about to happen right now.

Walking around with a gun in your hand in public is an aggressive act. You can't walk into the grocery store or a school or a church carrying a gun without eliciting the fight or flight response from most people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"The people who were chasing him could have felt their life was in imminent danger. The dude was armed and loaded and was not a policeman. How did anyone know he wasn't going to start a mass shooting? Any aggression toward him was done in self-defense."

This.

No. Open carry and being locked and loaded *in and of itself* cannot trigger self defense or it would be open season on anybody who open carries. Clearly, that’s the wrong outcome. Imminent for self defense purposes has generally meant right away or concurrent. So, if it is 8 am and you believe your neighbor is going to shoot you at 5 pm, you can’t act in self defense at noon. Generally, imminent means about to happen right now.

Look at the argument you are making- it is a tautology.

[Anonymous]

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He had the legal right to be there (whether it was wise or not is another question). In most jurisdictions your right to self defense is very strong when you are legally somewhere you are allowed to be. Your right to self defense is strongest in your own property (home, car, work) and your right to self defense is incredibly weak if you are somewhere you don’t have a legal right to be (break in to the home of another). Whether he had no business there or not is irrelevant to his right to self defense.

Did he have a legal right to be there walking around with an AR15? Serious question, I don't know gun laws.

I know cops wouldn't have been able to tell his age just by passing him, but it's horrifying to me that I live in a country where a kid who knows he can't vote or buy cigarettes think he's in his right to brandish an assault rifle and "defend" whatever.

Wisconsin is an open carry state. Can legally openly carry a loaded firearm in Wisconsin with limited restrictions.

One of those limited restrictions being that you have to be 18, which he isn't.

So why isn't this open and shut felonh murder? Self defense is irrelevent when there's a felony being committed

Okay, I just looked it up. Wisconsin law says a person committing an unlawful act (17 year old open carrying) that provoked an attack may still claim self defense if the unlawful actor (17 year old) withdraws from the fight. Shooter turning his back and running away from the first person before shooting is probably going to save his ass here.

1. “the fight” would need to be a proportionate use of force. Unarmed person chasing you is not proportionate excuse to fire an AR-15
2. He is not licensed to open carry in WI as an IL resident. Brought a fire arm across state lines.

I think he’s still f#cked. And I hope this menace goes away for a long time.

Your number 1 is not correct. The proportionality required is not based on weapons. He simply needed to reasonably believe that his life was in imminent danger or that he was about to suffer grave bodily harm. He’ll claim he saw the person light the device on fire, throw it at him and continue to chase him. I think most reasonable people would fear for their lives or grave bodily harm in such A scenario.

He’ll rightly get popped on the illegal open carrying and unexpected the’ll be shown no mercy on that charge.

I am confused by some do the posts here. Shooter was clearly running away before the first shooting. I guess posters on here hate him so much that no credit is being given to him for clearly trying to withdraw. Don’t get me wrong: he shouldn’t have been there, he shouldn’t have been carrying, but once he tried to wave that should have been the end of it for everyone.

NP. I haven't watched the videos and I won't. I don't watch videos of people getting killed.

I don't understand your description of what happened with the first shooting. The victim threw something at the armed person, moved towards him, the armed person ran away. And then turned around and killed the victim? If the armed person was running away from the person who threw something at him, then how was the thrower killed?

Shooter runs across street into a parking lot for what appears to be a corner store. It is unclear from video but chaser comes into screen precisely from where shooter entered screen and chaser has something in his hands hands. It appears from start that shooter is running away from chaser. chaser throws item at shooter in the parking lot as they go around one car. They go around one car and shooter ends up in a semi cornered position (Milwaukee paper said shooter was trapped but can’t tell from video). Chaser closes distance, shooter turns around and fires when chaser reaches shooter.