immmigrant haters: do you really want to be like Japan?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nothing you posted says we need more unskilled immigrants.

I'm so confused, but who posted this?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/08/business/economy/immigrants-skills-economy-jobs.html

But it is largely wrong. It misses many things: that less-skilled immigrants are also consumers of American-made goods and services; that their cheap labor raises economic output and also reduces prices. It misses the fact that their children tend to have substantially more skills. In fact, the children of immigrants contribute more to state fiscal coffers than do other native-born Americans, according to a report by the National Academies.

What is critical to understand, in light of the current political debate, is that contrary to conventional wisdom, less-skilled immigration does not just knock less-educated Americans out of their jobs. It often leads to the creation of new jobs — at better wages — for natives, too. Notably, it can help many Americans to move up the income ladder. And by stimulating investment and reallocating work, it increases productivity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just stop.

Illegal immigration is wrong. Period.

Legal immigration is great - let's stop illegal immigration so we can have more legal immigration.

And this statement...."If you say "well, we should create a path for legal immigration at the level needed for the workforce, not illegal" ... that is basically the Democratic party platform."............

If you really believe this, you need to inform your candidates. Because, their statements indicate that they are just fine with illegal immigration.

+1000
Legal immigration is fine, immigrants should not be a burden on the country.
Illegal immigrants are.
That’s why trump is getting re-elected.

Why are illegal immigrants a burden on the country? What is it about their legal status that creates the burden?

Are you really asking that question?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, why don’t you post that page long thing three or four more times, just to make sure people notice. You seem to be fond of it.

I'll keep on posting it as long as people aren't engaging with it.

You’ve been doing it for 12 pages and still didn’t get the response you think you want. I estimate your chances at this point to be below five percent. In fact, you are better off just typing up whatever you want to see and pretending it came from someone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your concern is to replenish the tax base, then it seems that welcoming masses of minimum-wage people who are likely to require substantial - and costly - public benefits. A much better solution would be to increase the number of educated, well-paid immigrants whose incomes, spending and attendant tax contributions will inject much more fuel into the economy.

Bingo.

No. We need immigrants in services, agriculture, construction, etc. The reason we have so many undocumented immigrants is because there is a demand for them that the legal immigration system does not meet. These people come here and work harder than anyone and contribute to our economy. The legal immigration system is not working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your concern is to replenish the tax base, then it seems that welcoming masses of minimum-wage people who are likely to require substantial - and costly - public benefits. A much better solution would be to increase the number of educated, well-paid immigrants whose incomes, spending and attendant tax contributions will inject much more fuel into the economy.

Bingo.

This

Agreed, however, democrats need more and more uneducated people to come here, become citizens to GET THEIR VOTES!!! All they want is power. In return, they throw a bone or 2 their way trying to make them feel that they care for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your concern is to replenish the tax base, then it seems that welcoming masses of minimum-wage people who are likely to require substantial - and costly - public benefits. A much better solution would be to increase the number of educated, well-paid immigrants whose incomes, spending and attendant tax contributions will inject much more fuel into the economy.

Bingo.

No. We need immigrants in services, agriculture, construction, etc. The reason we have so many undocumented immigrants is because there is a demand for them that the legal immigration system does not meet. These people come here and work harder than anyone and contribute to our economy. The legal immigration system is not working.

Well, who is fault is it that immigration system has not been working?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing you posted says we need more unskilled immigrants.

I'm so confused, but who posted this?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/08/business/economy/immigrants-skills-economy-jobs.html

But it is largely wrong. It misses many things: that less-skilled immigrants are also consumers of American-made goods and services; that their cheap labor raises economic output and also reduces prices. It misses the fact that their children tend to have substantially more skills. In fact, the children of immigrants contribute more to state fiscal coffers than do other native-born Americans, according to a report by the National Academies.

What is critical to understand, in light of the current political debate, is that contrary to conventional wisdom, less-skilled immigration does not just knock less-educated Americans out of their jobs. It often leads to the creation of new jobs — at better wages — for natives, too. Notably, it can help many Americans to move up the income ladder. And by stimulating investment and reallocating work, it increases productivity.

Projection and nothing else. Get your natives to wash dishes instead of lobbying for creation of the permanent underclass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing you posted says we need more unskilled immigrants.

I'm so confused, but who posted this?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/08/business/economy/immigrants-skills-economy-jobs.html

But it is largely wrong. It misses many things: that less-skilled immigrants are also consumers of American-made goods and services; that their cheap labor raises economic output and also reduces prices. It misses the fact that their children tend to have substantially more skills. In fact, the children of immigrants contribute more to state fiscal coffers than do other native-born Americans, according to a report by the National Academies.

What is critical to understand, in light of the current political debate, is that contrary to conventional wisdom, less-skilled immigration does not just knock less-educated Americans out of their jobs. It often leads to the creation of new jobs — at better wages — for natives, too. Notably, it can help many Americans to move up the income ladder. And by stimulating investment and reallocating work, it increases productivity.

Projection and nothing else. Get your natives to wash dishes instead of lobbying for creation of the permanent underclass.

You've got to drop the "permanent underclass" line, because it's not working. Allowing our economy to continue to use illegal labor is what creates the underclass. Regularlizing labor is what makes them socially mobile.

Even as it is now, immigration creates social mobility in families:

"their children tend to have substantially more skills. In fact, the children of immigrants contribute more to state fiscal coffers than do other native-born Americans, according to a report by the National Academies."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/08/business/economy/immigrants-skills-economy-jobs.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your concern is to replenish the tax base, then it seems that welcoming masses of minimum-wage people who are likely to require substantial - and costly - public benefits. A much better solution would be to increase the number of educated, well-paid immigrants whose incomes, spending and attendant tax contributions will inject much more fuel into the economy.

Bingo.

No. We need immigrants in services, agriculture, construction, etc. The reason we have so many undocumented immigrants is because there is a demand for them that the legal immigration system does not meet. These people come here and work harder than anyone and contribute to our economy. The legal immigration system is not working.

Well, who is fault is it that immigration system has not been working?

Racists and race-baiting politicians who oppose any increase in legal immigration of poor people. They have been able to kill immigration reform.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your concern is to replenish the tax base, then it seems that welcoming masses of minimum-wage people who are likely to require substantial - and costly - public benefits. A much better solution would be to increase the number of educated, well-paid immigrants whose incomes, spending and attendant tax contributions will inject much more fuel into the economy.

Bingo.

No. We need immigrants in services, agriculture, construction, etc. The reason we have so many undocumented immigrants is because there is a demand for them that the legal immigration system does not meet. These people come here and work harder than anyone and contribute to our economy. The legal immigration system is not working.

If you're here legally, then you're most likely educated. So you won't be working in construction or in farming. But once you're in - and legal to work - you do benefit society by increasing the tax base.

If you're uneducated or low-skilled, you'll take whatever is offered. I was slapped earlier for saying that our youth (citizens) won't take menial jobs. Someone said I was basically pushing for "child labor." lol - Clearly that person doesn't know his/her history.

Anyway, it's not a one-answer solution. Our own young people need to understand a work ethic. And those entering who are low-skilled can indeed perform some of the back-breaking work. However, they need to be on the books and they need protections from abuse. Entering illegally may offer protections early on, but if they manage to stay under the radar after entering, they can suffer abuses.

You either enter legally or you return. Illegal immigration poses more problems than not. And before some you neo libs attack me, you're the ones slamming big corporations for hiring illegal immigrants and forcing them to work in abusive situations. So let me shut you down right now.

You enter through legal measures, and maybe that means that the US needs to revamp its immigration pathway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your concern is to replenish the tax base, then it seems that welcoming masses of minimum-wage people who are likely to require substantial - and costly - public benefits. A much better solution would be to increase the number of educated, well-paid immigrants whose incomes, spending and attendant tax contributions will inject much more fuel into the economy.

Bingo.

No. We need immigrants in services, agriculture, construction, etc. The reason we have so many undocumented immigrants is because there is a demand for them that the legal immigration system does not meet. These people come here and work harder than anyone and contribute to our economy. The legal immigration system is not working.

If you're here legally, then you're most likely educated. So you won't be working in construction or in farming. But once you're in - and legal to work - you do benefit society by increasing the tax base.

If you're uneducated or low-skilled, you'll take whatever is offered. I was slapped earlier for saying that our youth (citizens) won't take menial jobs. Someone said I was basically pushing for "child labor." lol - Clearly that person doesn't know his/her history.

Anyway, it's not a one-answer solution. Our own young people need to understand a work ethic. And those entering who are low-skilled can indeed perform some of the back-breaking work. However, they need to be on the books and they need protections from abuse. Entering illegally may offer protections early on, but if they manage to stay under the radar after entering, they can suffer abuses.

You either enter legally or you return. Illegal immigration poses more problems than not. And before some you neo libs attack me, you're the ones slamming big corporations for hiring illegal immigrants and forcing them to work in abusive situations. So let me shut you down right now.

You enter through legal measures, and maybe that means that the US needs to revamp its immigration pathway.

This is OP. Thank you for your response - you actually end up in a place where I think we agree (revamp immigration pathway). My only quibble is I'm not sure that inculcating a "work ethic" in kids that have alternatives to back-breaking, low-skilled work is likely to be successful. They are rational actors, so they are going to pick the careers that are less back-breaking if they can. Our job as a nation is to ensure that we respect the workers doing the back-breaking work by making sure they get a decent wage & workplace safety & health care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your concern is to replenish the tax base, then it seems that welcoming masses of minimum-wage people who are likely to require substantial - and costly - public benefits. A much better solution would be to increase the number of educated, well-paid immigrants whose incomes, spending and attendant tax contributions will inject much more fuel into the economy.

Bingo.

No. We need immigrants in services, agriculture, construction, etc. The reason we have so many undocumented immigrants is because there is a demand for them that the legal immigration system does not meet. These people come here and work harder than anyone and contribute to our economy. The legal immigration system is not working.

If you're here legally, then you're most likely educated. So you won't be working in construction or in farming. But once you're in - and legal to work - you do benefit society by increasing the tax base.

If you're uneducated or low-skilled, you'll take whatever is offered. I was slapped earlier for saying that our youth (citizens) won't take menial jobs. Someone said I was basically pushing for "child labor." lol - Clearly that person doesn't know his/her history.

Anyway, it's not a one-answer solution. Our own young people need to understand a work ethic. And those entering who are low-skilled can indeed perform some of the back-breaking work. However, they need to be on the books and they need protections from abuse. Entering illegally may offer protections early on, but if they manage to stay under the radar after entering, they can suffer abuses.

You either enter legally or you return. Illegal immigration poses more problems than not. And before some you neo libs attack me, you're the ones slamming big corporations for hiring illegal immigrants and forcing them to work in abusive situations. So let me shut you down right now.

You enter through legal measures, and maybe that means that the US needs to revamp its immigration pathway.

This is OP. Thank you for your response - you actually end up in a place where I think we agree (revamp immigration pathway). My only quibble is I'm not sure that inculcating a "work ethic" in kids that have alternatives to back-breaking, low-skilled work is likely to be successful. They are rational actors, so they are going to pick the careers that are less back-breaking if they can. Our job as a nation is to ensure that we respect the workers doing the back-breaking work by making sure they get a decent wage & workplace safety & health care.

NP. The real solution is that the employers behind the "back-breaking" work need to increase pay, benefits, and worker protections so that American citizens will take the jobs. Increase slaughterhouse, agricultural, janitorial, etc. pay to $18-20/hour plus benefits, and Americans (especially the ones who are low-skilled and/or don't have college educations, of which there are plenty) will take the jobs. If we are relying on undocumented immigrants to keep prices of commodities low, that means they're artificially low. If prices need to go up to make these jobs attractive to American citizens and not exploit anyone, so be it. The solution is not to just keep turning a blind eye to illegal immigration "because we need low-skilled immigrants to take the jobs Americans won't." There are millions of Americans who don't go to college and are otherwise "working-class." So the real questions we should be asking are WHY won't Americans take those jobs, and how can we change that?

I recognize that Republicans don't want to do this - so this would actually be a very effective Democratic response to all of their messaging re: illegal immigration and would put them on the defensive. And would be way better messaging from the Democrats than what they're currently saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your concern is to replenish the tax base, then it seems that welcoming masses of minimum-wage people who are likely to require substantial - and costly - public benefits. A much better solution would be to increase the number of educated, well-paid immigrants whose incomes, spending and attendant tax contributions will inject much more fuel into the economy.

Bingo.

No. We need immigrants in services, agriculture, construction, etc. The reason we have so many undocumented immigrants is because there is a demand for them that the legal immigration system does not meet. These people come here and work harder than anyone and contribute to our economy. The legal immigration system is not working.

If you're here legally, then you're most likely educated. So you won't be working in construction or in farming. But once you're in - and legal to work - you do benefit society by increasing the tax base.

If you're uneducated or low-skilled, you'll take whatever is offered. I was slapped earlier for saying that our youth (citizens) won't take menial jobs. Someone said I was basically pushing for "child labor." lol - Clearly that person doesn't know his/her history.

Anyway, it's not a one-answer solution. Our own young people need to understand a work ethic. And those entering who are low-skilled can indeed perform some of the back-breaking work. However, they need to be on the books and they need protections from abuse. Entering illegally may offer protections early on, but if they manage to stay under the radar after entering, they can suffer abuses.

You either enter legally or you return. Illegal immigration poses more problems than not. And before some you neo libs attack me, you're the ones slamming big corporations for hiring illegal immigrants and forcing them to work in abusive situations. So let me shut you down right now.

You enter through legal measures, and maybe that means that the US needs to revamp its immigration pathway.

This is OP. Thank you for your response - you actually end up in a place where I think we agree (revamp immigration pathway). My only quibble is I'm not sure that inculcating a "work ethic" in kids that have alternatives to back-breaking, low-skilled work is likely to be successful. They are rational actors, so they are going to pick the careers that are less back-breaking if they can. Our job as a nation is to ensure that we respect the workers doing the back-breaking work by making sure they get a decent wage & workplace safety & health care.

NP. The real solution is that the employers behind the "back-breaking" work need to increase pay, benefits, and worker protections so that American citizens will take the jobs. Increase slaughterhouse, agricultural, janitorial, etc. pay to $18-20/hour plus benefits, and Americans (especially the ones who are low-skilled and/or don't have college educations, of which there are plenty) will take the jobs. If we are relying on undocumented immigrants to keep prices of commodities low, that means they're artificially low. If prices need to go up to make these jobs attractive to American citizens and not exploit anyone, so be it. The solution is not to just keep turning a blind eye to illegal immigration "because we need low-skilled immigrants to take the jobs Americans won't." There are millions of Americans who don't go to college and are otherwise "working-class." So the real questions we should be asking are WHY won't Americans take those jobs, and how can we change that?

I recognize that Republicans don't want to do this - so this would actually be a very effective Democratic response to all of their messaging re: illegal immigration and would put them on the defensive. And would be way better messaging from the Democrats than what they're currently saying.

I agree that working conditions should be improved, and that prices could be kept artificially low by illegal labor, but our demographics still mean that we would need immigrants. We just don't have the people to replace immigrant labor with native-born labor. But yeah, overall I agree that a labor-focused approach is better for the country (not just political parties!)

[Anonymous]

Demographic issues can be solved with educated immigrants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Demographic issues can be solved with educated immigrants.

And automation