Jews with Christmas/Holiday trees

[Anonymous]

Destination Hanukkah in a place with a beach and/or Israel. Works like a charm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I acknowledge it can be difficult for kids, especially in this area, which is still dominated by WASP culture, conformity, and the desire to fit in. Throw in a garnish of antisemitism,and its tough. But to add a tree is a bizarre capitulation.

?

Why is the DC area any different in that regard? America in general is dominated by WASP culture, conformity, and the desire to fit in. DC is actually slightly better on the first count, given the relative diversity of the area.

[Anonymous]

The real reason Jews can't have Christmas trees

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyJWIDwZcdI

[Anonymous]

We are Jewish and had both Santa and a Christmas tree when they were little and wanted one. As they got older and realized that Santa didn’t exist they stopped asking for a tree. Both are good, observant Jews now.

[Anonymous]

OP, I went to Catholic school all my life, and I vividly remember my third grade teacher's lessons about different religions. Yeah, she favored Judaism over others because they are "God's special people", but we learned all about Hanukkah, and played with dreidels and sung the song. We learned about the menorah, and listened to a story about Jewish children lighting the candles each night. And then I demanded that my parents get a menorah because I wanted to light the candles, too, just like in the book. My parents got one and we learned about it, and it was in the same room as the Christmas tree.

It was fine. It didn't confuse me. I understood that Jesus was Jewish (of the House of David, and that's why we had a Star of David ornament on the tree), and that Judaism was a religion. It made me a more open-minded person because I saw that my parents and teachers treated other religions with respect and didn't forbid me from learning about them.

So my advice is to just get the tree. Then, teach your child the significance of the tree to Christians, and explain your religion's stance. You can teach your child that you are Jewish and explain your religion's teachings, but also teach what other people believe, and have fun learning about their traditions, too.

You could get some books about the winter holidays of various religions while you are at it. Christmas, Diwali, Eid, Kwanzaa, etc. And do some little crafts as you explore each one. This won't make your kid less Jewish, but will make her a tolerant, respectful global citizen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am Jewish DH is Christian. I love participating in his family's tradition. Peace on Earth Goodwill to all. Its lovely. We do not have a tree only because we do not spend the holiday here. We have brought a menorah up there when Hanukah overlaps. They love the lights.

Similar situation. Do you miss Chinese food and a movie too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I went to Catholic school all my life, and I vividly remember my third grade teacher's lessons about different religions. Yeah, she favored Judaism over others because they are "God's special people", but we learned all about Hanukkah, and played with dreidels and sung the song. We learned about the menorah, and listened to a story about Jewish children lighting the candles each night. And then I demanded that my parents get a menorah because I wanted to light the candles, too, just like in the book. My parents got one and we learned about it, and it was in the same room as the Christmas tree.

It was fine. It didn't confuse me. I understood that Jesus was Jewish (of the House of David, and that's why we had a Star of David ornament on the tree), and that Judaism was a religion. It made me a more open-minded person because I saw that my parents and teachers treated other religions with respect and didn't forbid me from learning about them.

So my advice is to just get the tree. Then, teach your child the significance of the tree to Christians, and explain your religion's stance. You can teach your child that you are Jewish and explain your religion's teachings, but also teach what other people believe, and have fun learning about their traditions, too.

You could get some books about the winter holidays of various religions while you are at it. Christmas, Diwali, Eid, Kwanzaa, etc. And do some little crafts as you explore each one. This won't make your kid less Jewish, but will make her a tolerant, respectful global citizen.

I'm sorry, but it's not the same. The sentiment and your experiences are lovely, but when you are the minority religion -- like the minority anything -- it is a constant struggle to maintain your distinctiveness in the face of majority culture. I am Jewish and have an almost 5 year old who goes to a multicultural preschool. We have never once in our house initiated any discussion of Santa or Jesus or Christmas. Yet last year he came home asking about Christmas trees and Santa and why don't we have Christmas lights. Almost nothing would be needed for him to absorb Christmas in a cultural fashion, even if not religious. But for us to inculcate our beliefs and traditions takes serious work. Deliberately bringing Christmas traditions into our house would interfere with that. So we talk about how nice it is that everyone has different traditions and beliefs, and he can admire his friends' lights and trees, but I can't countenance a Christmas tree in my house.

For most Jews it's not as simple as picking and choosing. We have our traditions and they exclude Christian traditions, almost by definition. One can admire and respect other beliefs, but dual practice is not tenable. It's like suggesting to parents who are trying to teach their mother tongue that they just use English and the mother tongue at home and let the kid choose when he's old enough. In that scenario, nearly every time, the kid will default to English because that is the dominant language. Although it may be harder, the parents need to do their best to lay the ground work and be strict with the foreign language at home, or the kid won't be proficient as an adult.

[Anonymous]

This friggin discussion began on 10/18

Forget hanukah (and purim, and Maimuna) for a minute.

As an American Jew, am I not entitled to have Thanksgiving BEFORE we get these fucackte discusssions about trees? I mean if Christians want to start Christmas before Veterans Day, thats their right, but can't we have turkey first? When my great grandparents lived in the shtetl they never debated to have a tree or not until the last turkey sandwiches were done, the last pie plate cleaned - certainly not before the Penn State Pitt game was decided. Moses our revered teacher said "You shalt not debate the christmas tree while the gobbler lies before you!" Rabbi Akiva said - the gobbler - this means not only the turkey but any side dish as well. His students said - even a roll? He said "if its a kind of roll that they only have on thanksgiving yes, but if they have it all the time, then no, they may debate the tree" The schlitz rav, in his halachic work, the likkutei split, asked "what does this mean all the time? They may not have dinner rolls at a casual meal, and on shabbat they have challah! From this we learn a family should gather for a family dinner at least once a week (but merit if they do so much more!) If they have the rolls once a week at that dinner, then it is "all the time" and so they may talk about the tree even when leftover rolls from Thanksgiving are around, but if not, not!" And this custom is kept by Jews of Polish descent, except by the Reform, which is a shande.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I went to Catholic school all my life, and I vividly remember my third grade teacher's lessons about different religions. Yeah, she favored Judaism over others because they are "God's special people", but we learned all about Hanukkah, and played with dreidels and sung the song. We learned about the menorah, and listened to a story about Jewish children lighting the candles each night. And then I demanded that my parents get a menorah because I wanted to light the candles, too, just like in the book. My parents got one and we learned about it, and it was in the same room as the Christmas tree.

It was fine. It didn't confuse me. I understood that Jesus was Jewish (of the House of David, and that's why we had a Star of David ornament on the tree), and that Judaism was a religion. It made me a more open-minded person because I saw that my parents and teachers treated other religions with respect and didn't forbid me from learning about them.

So my advice is to just get the tree. Then, teach your child the significance of the tree to Christians, and explain your religion's stance. You can teach your child that you are Jewish and explain your religion's teachings, but also teach what other people believe, and have fun learning about their traditions, too.

You could get some books about the winter holidays of various religions while you are at it. Christmas, Diwali, Eid, Kwanzaa, etc. And do some little crafts as you explore each one. This won't make your kid less Jewish, but will make her a tolerant, respectful global citizen.

I'm sorry, but it's not the same. The sentiment and your experiences are lovely, but when you are the minority religion -- like the minority anything -- it is a constant struggle to maintain your distinctiveness in the face of majority culture. I am Jewish and have an almost 5 year old who goes to a multicultural preschool. We have never once in our house initiated any discussion of Santa or Jesus or Christmas. Yet last year he came home asking about Christmas trees and Santa and why don't we have Christmas lights. Almost nothing would be needed for him to absorb Christmas in a cultural fashion, even if not religious. But for us to inculcate our beliefs and traditions takes serious work. Deliberately bringing Christmas traditions into our house would interfere with that. So we talk about how nice it is that everyone has different traditions and beliefs, and he can admire his friends' lights and trees, but I can't countenance a Christmas tree in my house.

For most Jews it's not as simple as picking and choosing. We have our traditions and they exclude Christian traditions, almost by definition. One can admire and respect other beliefs, but dual practice is not tenable. It's like suggesting to parents who are trying to teach their mother tongue that they just use English and the mother tongue at home and let the kid choose when he's old enough. In that scenario, nearly every time, the kid will default to English because that is the dominant language. Although it may be harder, the parents need to do their best to lay the ground work and be strict with the foreign language at home, or the kid won't be proficient as an adult.

I get what you're saying, but your analogy with learniya first language, and first language attrition is incorrect. A person can loose their language regardless of whether the parents speak it.
A fluent 4 year old can become a bilingual 6 year old. Learning a new language requires a lot from a child, so I would not just say they learn fast. Because of the relative plasticity of the brain, the new language can come at a cost to the first. Language is a two way street, first language affects the new, and the new starts to affect the first. Nobody is actually fully bilingual, there will always be one dominant language, shifts in which language is dominant is natural

[Anonymous]

My mother always gave us Christmas stockings and Easter baskets. We would never do that with our kids (who are now in middle and high school).

I actually love that we don’t have to have a tree. Seems like a lot of work.

[Anonymous]

If your entire spirituality comes down to some lights and a tree for a couple weeks...for Christian's, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, or whomever, you have missed the point. It is a tree. The lights coincide with the darkest and longest night of the year, it is entirely a pagan custom. Jesus was not born on this date. No one was supposed to go crazy with buying stuff and whatnot. These are all cultural manifestations over time. Relax, and enjoy the season.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your entire spirituality comes down to some lights and a tree for a couple weeks...for Christian's, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, or whomever, you have missed the point. It is a tree. The lights coincide with the darkest and longest night of the year, it is entirely a pagan custom. Jesus was not born on this date. No one was supposed to go crazy with buying stuff and whatnot. These are all cultural manifestations over time. Relax, and enjoy the season.

I apologize for the typo of Christians with an apostrophe. .... lol..hate when I see plural with apostrophes.

[Anonymous]

It’s not just a tree. It’s not just a materialistic holiday. If it were, there wouldn’t be this annual debate. There’s no war on Christmas and there shouldn’t be an imposed requirement to celebrate Christmas either. It’s disrespectful to Christians to pretend the holiday and its symbols (like tree) are stripped of meaning and it’s disrespectful to Jews/Judaism to act as if celebrating Christmas is NBD and has no consequence for Jewish identity on a macro and micro level.

[Anonymous]

For us, it’s a family tradition. My mom is Catholic and my dad is Jewish. I was raised Jewish, but we celebrated Christmas for my mom. DH has a half Jewish, half Catholic family too and did the same thing.

While we were both raised Jewish and are raising our daughter Jewish, celebrating Christmas is part of our family tradition. We also celebrate Chanukkah. We’re not that religious, so exposing our daughter to these things is as much about teaching her about her family history than anything else. Plus, Christmas is just fun.

I know that might sound weird, but it’s what works for us!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not just a tree. It’s not just a materialistic holiday. If it were, there wouldn’t be this annual debate. There’s no war on Christmas and there shouldn’t be an imposed requirement to celebrate Christmas either. It’s disrespectful to Christians to pretend the holiday and its symbols (like tree) are stripped of meaning and it’s disrespectful to Jews/Judaism to act as if celebrating Christmas is NBD and has no consequence for Jewish identity on a macro and micro level.

"Stripped of meaning?"

Please explain the Christian meaning of the tree.

The pagan meaning and tradition of the tree have been explained about a dozen times in this thread.