Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d be ticked if my school switched to immersion. I believe there can be value, but be honest I just haven’t been impressed with most of the immersion programs I’ve seen in DCPS and DCPCS.

And the number of immersion programs your children have attended is... let me guess ... zero?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immersion is more about a school within a school for SES mixed areas than pure academics. It is an opt in program for parents who want to opt out so to speak. Most kids don’t come out anywhere close to bilingual anymore than kids who take a few years of any language in school. And that is what most studies show.

It is naïve and disingenuous to act simply educationally principled and when the side of the population you are fighting to opt out from objects and are able to see through the BS that expanding the program is tantamount to asking for the school to enforce through policy a reproportioning of the student body. Less “those kids” and more upper SES language and parents please!

That said there are many, many legitimate reasons most Families don’t want those types of kids and parents around and in a perfect it would be wise for those familes to structurally address their value add to society. But this isn’t a perfect world and they have to go to school somewhere.

Truth is most people with money either consciously or subconsciously try and create places like Bethesda, Georgetown and North Arlington when they move in. The poor will be mostly pushed out eventually. This is just what that process looks like because it will never be quick enough. They can’t argue that so it is “dam it, my baby needs to learn Chinese”. Sure Bryce does

I love it when white people speak for the poor blacks.

We have a lottery that doesn’t discriminate. Tyler is obviously a convenient location, unlike many charter immersion schools.

There are many black children doing very well in immersion programs. There is a demand for immersion, even among black people, who you seem to think don’t want immersion based on the quotes of a few people who clearly just don’t want more Hispanics and whites people at their school.

Black people talking about high achieving black students always rings similar to white people talking about their black friend. Sure it happens but it isn’t the systemic reality that policy needs to based off of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immersion is more about a school within a school for SES mixed areas than pure academics. It is an opt in program for parents who want to opt out so to speak. Most kids don’t come out anywhere close to bilingual anymore than kids who take a few years of any language in school. And that is what most studies show.

It is naïve and disingenuous to act simply educationally principled and when the side of the population you are fighting to opt out from objects and are able to see through the BS that expanding the program is tantamount to asking for the school to enforce through policy a reproportioning of the student body. Less “those kids” and more upper SES language and parents please!

That said there are many, many legitimate reasons most Families don’t want those types of kids and parents around and in a perfect it would be wise for those familes to structurally address their value add to society. But this isn’t a perfect world and they have to go to school somewhere.

Truth is most people with money either consciously or subconsciously try and create places like Bethesda, Georgetown and North Arlington when they move in. The poor will be mostly pushed out eventually. This is just what that process looks like because it will never be quick enough. They can’t argue that so it is “dam it, my baby needs to learn Chinese”. Sure Bryce does

I love it when white people speak for the poor blacks.

We have a lottery that doesn’t discriminate. Tyler is obviously a convenient location, unlike many charter immersion schools.

There are many black children doing very well in immersion programs. There is a demand for immersion, even among black people, who you seem to think don’t want immersion based on the quotes of a few people who clearly just don’t want more Hispanics and whites people at their school.

Black people talking about high achieving black students always rings similar to white people talking about their black friend. Sure it happens but it isn’t the systemic reality that policy needs to based off of.

dp: What a rude response to a perfectly reasonable comment. Just because someone doesn’t fit the plurality stereotype doesn’t mean their views and experience are meaningless. And good policy considers the majority and the minority circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immersion is more about a school within a school for SES mixed areas than pure academics. It is an opt in program for parents who want to opt out so to speak. Most kids don’t come out anywhere close to bilingual anymore than kids who take a few years of any language in school. And that is what most studies show.

It is naïve and disingenuous to act simply educationally principled and when the side of the population you are fighting to opt out from objects and are able to see through the BS that expanding the program is tantamount to asking for the school to enforce through policy a reproportioning of the student body. Less “those kids” and more upper SES language and parents please!

That said there are many, many legitimate reasons most Families don’t want those types of kids and parents around and in a perfect it would be wise for those familes to structurally address their value add to society. But this isn’t a perfect world and they have to go to school somewhere.

Truth is most people with money either consciously or subconsciously try and create places like Bethesda, Georgetown and North Arlington when they move in. The poor will be mostly pushed out eventually. This is just what that process looks like because it will never be quick enough. They can’t argue that so it is “dam it, my baby needs to learn Chinese”. Sure Bryce does

I love it when white people speak for the poor blacks.

We have a lottery that doesn’t discriminate. Tyler is obviously a convenient location, unlike many charter immersion schools.

There are many black children doing very well in immersion programs. There is a demand for immersion, even among black people, who you seem to think don’t want immersion based on the quotes of a few people who clearly just don’t want more Hispanics and whites people at their school.

Black people talking about high achieving black students always rings similar to white people talking about their black friend. Sure it happens but it isn’t the systemic reality that policy needs to based off of.

dp: What a rude response to a perfectly reasonable comment. Just because someone doesn’t fit the plurality stereotype doesn’t mean their views and experience are meaningless. And good policy considers the majority and the minority circumstances.

It wasn’t a responsible responce because the issue is the have and have not have different needs. Higher SES black students of course will have similar needs and results as the other higher SES familes. We are talking about the have nots being displaced which happen to be mostly black. Jumping up and reminding people there are rich black people just continues to make it a racial conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Immersion is more about a school within a school for SES mixed areas than pure academics. It is an opt in program for parents who want to opt out so to speak. Most kids don’t come out anywhere close to bilingual anymore than kids who take a few years of any language in school. And that is what most studies show.

It is naïve and disingenuous to act simply educationally principled and when the side of the population you are fighting to opt out from objects and are able to see through the BS that expanding the program is tantamount to asking for the school to enforce through policy a reproportioning of the student body. Less “those kids” and more upper SES language and parents please!

That said there are many, many legitimate reasons most Families don’t want those types of kids and parents around and in a perfect it would be wise for those familes to structurally address their value add to society. But this isn’t a perfect world and they have to go to school somewhere.

Truth is most people with money either consciously or subconsciously try and create places like Bethesda, Georgetown and North Arlington when they move in. The poor will be mostly pushed out eventually. This is just what that process looks like because it will never be quick enough. They can’t argue that so it is “dam it, my baby needs to learn Chinese”. Sure Bryce does

No one in DC is trying to recreate North Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d be ticked if my school switched to immersion. I believe there can be value, but be honest I just haven’t been impressed with most of the immersion programs I’ve seen in DCPS and DCPCS.

And the number of immersion programs your children have attended is... let me guess ... zero?

Correct! We checked out several DC immersion schools years ago with particular interest in 1 language both DH and I studied. Unfortunately the language skills of children we met were astonishingly poor considering they had attended this school for 6+ years. Would you send your child to a school where you weren’t impressed with the outcome?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For many families learning a second language well is not a fad. In fact, this country could use more cross-cultural understanding these days.

you can learn a second language without immersion. you can also find a dual-language program without colonizing someone else's school. and let's not forget that the tyler spanish parents ***already*** have an immersion program. but it's not enough for them and they want to kick the (mostly black) kids out.

Black kids can do immersion to, you racist.

oh just stop it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immersion is more about a school within a school for SES mixed areas than pure academics. It is an opt in program for parents who want to opt out so to speak. Most kids don’t come out anywhere close to bilingual anymore than kids who take a few years of any language in school. And that is what most studies show.

It is naïve and disingenuous to act simply educationally principled and when the side of the population you are fighting to opt out from objects and are able to see through the BS that expanding the program is tantamount to asking for the school to enforce through policy a reproportioning of the student body. Less “those kids” and more upper SES language and parents please!

That said there are many, many legitimate reasons most Families don’t want those types of kids and parents around and in a perfect it would be wise for those familes to structurally address their value add to society. But this isn’t a perfect world and they have to go to school somewhere.

Truth is most people with money either consciously or subconsciously try and create places like Bethesda, Georgetown and North Arlington when they move in. The poor will be mostly pushed out eventually. This is just what that process looks like because it will never be quick enough. They can’t argue that so it is “dam it, my baby needs to learn Chinese”. Sure Bryce does

I love it when white people speak for the poor blacks.

We have a lottery that doesn’t discriminate. Tyler is obviously a convenient location, unlike many charter immersion schools.

There are many black children doing very well in immersion programs. There is a demand for immersion, even among black people, who you seem to think don’t want immersion based on the quotes of a few people who clearly just don’t want more Hispanics and whites people at their school.

Are you familiar with the Tyler situation? Your position is that the quoted black parents are racist against whites and Hispanics? And that they should have the model of their school summarily changed by whiter and richer parents, and have to leave the school, without complaint?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d be ticked if my school switched to immersion. I believe there can be value, but be honest I just haven’t been impressed with most of the immersion programs I’ve seen in DCPS and DCPCS.

And the number of immersion programs your children have attended is... let me guess ... zero?

Correct! We checked out several DC immersion schools years ago with particular interest in 1 language both DH and I studied. Unfortunately the language skills of children we met were astonishingly poor considering they had attended this school for 6+ years. Would you send your child to a school where you weren’t impressed with the outcome?

I certainly wouldn’t make broad statements about DCPS and DCPCS immersion programs based on a couple of open houses that I attended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be equitable, access to dual language schools should be available to everyone who wants it.

Native speakers will get a boost, but all English-dominant students should have an equal shot.

Dual-language is wildly popular in the city, but has detractors and is hard to make work within a neighborhood school structure. Make all of these opportunities city-wide schools, with entrance via the lottery, the way the immersion charters are.

It's the only fair thing to do.

You can move IB for a dual language school; case closed.

That is not a real solution and you know it when 80% of DC's public school population is economically disadvantaged.

The economically disadvantaged aren't the ones asking for dual-language in their schools.

Obviously you have never stepped foot in my neighborhood in ward 8. Or talked to any of us.

New resident there I’m sure. And I’m sure the “poster” wasn’t talking about you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be equitable, access to dual language schools should be available to everyone who wants it.

Native speakers will get a boost, but all English-dominant students should have an equal shot.

Dual-language is wildly popular in the city, but has detractors and is hard to make work within a neighborhood school structure. Make all of these opportunities city-wide schools, with entrance via the lottery, the way the immersion charters are.

It's the only fair thing to do.

You can move IB for a dual language school; case closed.

That is not a real solution and you know it when 80% of DC's public school population is economically disadvantaged.

The economically disadvantaged aren't the ones asking for dual-language in their schools.

Obviously you have never stepped foot in my neighborhood in ward 8. Or talked to any of us.

New resident there I’m sure. And I’m sure the “poster” wasn’t talking about you.

Tell me your experiences in ward 8 before you tell me about mine.

[Anonymous]

Question for ‘immersion or bust’ families. Tyler already has immersion. Why isn’t it acceptable to keep both programs going? & since we have all forgotten about the autism program at Tyler- I’ll also pretend it doesn’t exist, for the sake of this post/question

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For many families learning a second language well is not a fad. In fact, this country could use more cross-cultural understanding these days.

Dual-language is not the same as learning another language, I learnt two but wouldn't have wanted to go to a dual-language school when my parents spoke neither language and I became an economist. This is the problem, folks are mixing up the issues. Nothing wrong with learning another language, but dual-language schools were content is taught in both languages is not what some would call a more recent "fad". It's a deflector by DCPS to avoid working on other tougher issues, like overall test scores in the basics which is atrocious across most DCPS schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For many families learning a second language well is not a fad. In fact, this country could use more cross-cultural understanding these days.

Dual-language is not the same as learning another language, I learnt two but wouldn't have wanted to go to a dual-language school when my parents spoke neither language and I became an economist. This is the problem, folks are mixing up the issues. Nothing wrong with learning another language, but dual-language schools were content is taught in both languages is not what some would call a more recent "fad". It's a deflector by DCPS to avoid working on other tougher issues, like overall test scores in the basics which is atrocious across most DCPS schools.

The headline is needlessly contentious, pretty balanced article about some of the benefits and issues. Maybe "trendy" rather than "fad" and overlook the headline "gentrification" guaranteed to get everyone's heckles up...

https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20141117/upper-west-side/what-you-need-know-before-sending-your-child-dual-language-program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Students with special needs do not get what the need at these dual language/immersion schools and those schools are happy not to have them. Just look at the demographics of the schools. Special needs students are barely there.

Tyler in particular has kicked SN kids out of their Spanish program. DOE OCR sided with us in our complaint against Tyler.