Discussion over whether to expand Tyler dual-lang program turns to gentrification debate

[Anonymous]

New WaPo story on the Tyler community meeting about the future of its dual-language program. Parents are concerned that once a school becomes fully-dual language it becomes wealthier and whiter, while 80% of the city is at-risk.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/are-dual-language-programs-in-urban-schools-a-sign-of-gentrification/2018/07/03/926c4a42-68c2-11e8-9e38-24e693b38637_story.html?utm_term=.5524ec264f49

Key quotes:

"...a mother with a rising first-grader in Tyler’s creative-arts program, said she wants her child to focus on learning core subjects and thinks emphasizing a second language could impede that. Norde, who is African American and a native Washingtonian, tied the increasing popularity of dual-language programs to the city becoming more white and Hispanic, and she doesn’t see where her family fits in.

“The more white parents that get involved in the school, they are the ones pushing these agendas,” Norde said. “We have always been in that school, and we have never been pushing that agenda.”

"Parents said it’s logistically complicated to run two big programs in a single school. Tyler parents said that when families in the dual-language track advocate for more resources, it pits the programs against each other.

"Sheila Bunn, a parent with a rising third-grader at the Spanish program at Tyler, said she believes the dual-language track is the right fit for her daughter but knows it’s not for everyone. Bunn, the chief of staff for D.C. Council member Vincent C. Gray (D-Ward 7), said the city needs to nurture both programs.

“Because there is one segment that is more vocal about issues and concerns means that their concerns get addressed faster,” she said. “The school just needs to work better at making sure both voices are heard.”

[Anonymous]

I thought the story was poorly done - I’m still not sure why low income families don’t want dual language. The only reason they gave was bc they don’t have time to help with homework, but I don’t speak Spanish and wouldn’t be able to help my kid with Spanish homework either. Seemed like wapo wanted to just debate the issue without proviiding all the facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought the story was poorly done - I’m still not sure why low income families don’t want dual language. The only reason they gave was bc they don’t have time to help with homework, but I don’t speak Spanish and wouldn’t be able to help my kid with Spanish homework either. Seemed like wapo wanted to just debate the issue without proviiding all the facts.

Because if you are not at grade level in your native language and have poor test scores in English and Math, dual language is not a good fit. it's not like speaking two-languages brings advantages just by itself otherwise the local Latino students would overall be doing a lot better at DCPS, at most schools AA and Latino families are two subgroups that need more support. This argument is never clearly articulated when talking about the introduction of dual-language programs.

[Anonymous]

Just shows how different the needs of low SES vs high SES families are. I don’t see how any school could meet both equally well.

[Anonymous]

Agree with PP, everyone wants to have a kumbaya school with all kinds of socioeconomic diversity, unfortunately schools cannot meet both needs of the impoverished & upper middle class students. Eventually one will overtake the other. The black mother in the article recognizes that. It’s a sad state of affairs but DCPS truly needs to recognize the needs of each community will be different. A Deal for everyone was the stupidest campaign slogan Bowser ever came up with, every damn body can’t, won’t and doesn’t need a Deal because their communities vary. It’s akin to laser surgery, there is no one size fits all model. This is why many put their children in private school.

[Anonymous]

The pro- dual language parents quoted know it will raise the SES level of the average student — and they don’t care who gets pushed out.

I think ALL DCPS dual language schools should be city- wide schools with admission only via lottery and a proficiency exam for anyone who wins a Spanish dominant seat.

And there should be a decent traditional school to serve every neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the story was poorly done - I’m still not sure why low income families don’t want dual language. The only reason they gave was bc they don’t have time to help with homework, but I don’t speak Spanish and wouldn’t be able to help my kid with Spanish homework either. Seemed like wapo wanted to just debate the issue without proviiding all the facts.

Because if you are not at grade level in your native language and have poor test scores in English and Math, dual language is not a good fit. it's not like speaking two-languages brings advantages just by itself otherwise the local Latino students would overall be doing a lot better at DCPS, at most schools AA and Latino families are two subgroups that need more support. This argument is never clearly articulated when talking about the introduction of dual-language programs.

There are at least 50 peer reviewed studies that find that learning a second language improves performance in the first. The idea that poor children can't handle a second language is nonsense unsupported by research.

What has proven true all over the city is that putting a dual language program in a gentrified neighborhood tends to keep the middle class IB residents in the school, pushing out everyone else. This is why the city has had to introduce dual language lotteries. African American OOB residents who don't have a child at the school already lose access.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the story was poorly done - I’m still not sure why low income families don’t want dual language. The only reason they gave was bc they don’t have time to help with homework, but I don’t speak Spanish and wouldn’t be able to help my kid with Spanish homework either. Seemed like wapo wanted to just debate the issue without proviiding all the facts.

Because if you are not at grade level in your native language and have poor test scores in English and Math, dual language is not a good fit. it's not like speaking two-languages brings advantages just by itself otherwise the local Latino students would overall be doing a lot better at DCPS, at most schools AA and Latino families are two subgroups that need more support. This argument is never clearly articulated when talking about the introduction of dual-language programs.

Also, a single parent in the article made the point that dual-language is more suitable for two-parent households who have enough time to help with HW in both English and Spanish.

[Anonymous]

Look at the retention numbers. The spanish immersion program does not keep kids in the school past 1st grade. So why would an entire school adopt a model that does not hold on to its families.

Also, from my work at Tyler 10 years ago- these are the same parents who want separate lunches, rececess, aftercare than the 'create arts' kids. The wanted a segregated school. It is not a far stretch for Creative Arts program parents to think that pushing out poor black kids is their aim. It has been for the word go

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at the retention numbers. The spanish immersion program does not keep kids in the school past 1st grade. So why would an entire school adopt a model that does not hold on to its families.

Also, from my work at Tyler 10 years ago- these are the same parents who want separate lunches, rececess, aftercare than the 'create arts' kids. The wanted a segregated school. It is not a far stretch for Creative Arts program parents to think that pushing out poor black kids is their aim. It has been for the word go

Separate lunches and recesses? Seriously?

[Anonymous]

Yes!!! Seriously!!
I was @ most recent meeting about this- those same parents, from 10 years ago were @ meeting. It’s not a simple as dual language vs. English only

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at the retention numbers. The spanish immersion program does not keep kids in the school past 1st grade. So why would an entire school adopt a model that does not hold on to its families.

Also, from my work at Tyler 10 years ago- these are the same parents who want separate lunches, rececess, aftercare than the 'create arts' kids. The wanted a segregated school. It is not a far stretch for Creative Arts program parents to think that pushing out poor black kids is their aim. It has been for the word go

This is still going on. The immersion families don't want to admit it but it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the story was poorly done - I’m still not sure why low income families don’t want dual language. The only reason they gave was bc they don’t have time to help with homework, but I don’t speak Spanish and wouldn’t be able to help my kid with Spanish homework either. Seemed like wapo wanted to just debate the issue without proviiding all the facts.

Because if you are not at grade level in your native language and have poor test scores in English and Math, dual language is not a good fit. it's not like speaking two-languages brings advantages just by itself otherwise the local Latino students would overall be doing a lot better at DCPS, at most schools AA and Latino families are two subgroups that need more support. This argument is never clearly articulated when talking about the introduction of dual-language programs.

There are at least 50 peer reviewed studies that find that learning a second language improves performance in the first. The idea that poor children can't handle a second language is nonsense unsupported by research.

What has proven true all over the city is that putting a dual language program in a gentrified neighborhood tends to keep the middle class IB residents in the school, pushing out everyone else. This is why the city has had to introduce dual language lotteries. African American OOB residents who don't have a child at the school already lose access.

I am a high SES parent and I would be pissed if they tried to turn our DCPS into immersion. I don't want an immersion school, and I believe it absolutely introduces a lot of complexities that may not suit a particular school. To brush of the real concerns of parents who don't want immersion is totally arrogant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with PP, everyone wants to have a kumbaya school with all kinds of socioeconomic diversity, unfortunately schools cannot meet both needs of the impoverished & upper middle class students. Eventually one will overtake the other. The black mother in the article recognizes that. It’s a sad state of affairs but DCPS truly needs to recognize the needs of each community will be different. A Deal for everyone was the stupidest campaign slogan Bowser ever came up with, every damn body can’t, won’t and doesn’t need a Deal because their communities vary. It’s akin to laser surgery, there is no one size fits all model. This is why many put their children in private school.

I could not disagree more. We're at a diverse Hill school and the school serves all kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with PP, everyone wants to have a kumbaya school with all kinds of socioeconomic diversity, unfortunately schools cannot meet both needs of the impoverished & upper middle class students. Eventually one will overtake the other. The black mother in the article recognizes that. It’s a sad state of affairs but DCPS truly needs to recognize the needs of each community will be different. A Deal for everyone was the stupidest campaign slogan Bowser ever came up with, every damn body can’t, won’t and doesn’t need a Deal because their communities vary. It’s akin to laser surgery, there is no one size fits all model. This is why many put their children in private school.

I could not disagree more. We're at a diverse Hill school and the school serves all kids.

What program is your child in?