World Cup talk

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07/05/2018 18:01

Subject: World Cup talk

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Anonymous

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Anonymous wrote:I’m trying to understand where the hate for Japan comes from. What did Senegal do or what stats did they have to support this bs going around that they deserved it more than Japan. It’s pure conjecture.

Their stats were equivalent to Senegal, and they only made it through to this round because of the fair play rule – they had fewer red/ yellow cards than Senegal. This is the first time that rule has been used at this stage to knock out a team.

Many people don't like that rule in general, and think that the stereotype of people of color being more aggressive/ physical might have come into play with the number of yellow cards that Senegal received. I think I missed this game, but in Japan's last game they thought they were going to make it through because of the fair play rule, and apparently they really just passed the ball around and did not play their hardest and a lot of people thought that was a bad attitude to have and not sportsmanlike.

Before Colombia scored, Senegal were also just passing the ball around for spells, because they knew if it remained like that they would go through. People talk about sportsmanlike, but Niang’s goal to beat Poland wasn’t very sportsmanlike. The ref waved him on when he shouldn’t have, and Niang exploited this to give Senegal the win. Seeing as Senegal and Japan were tied in all tiebreakers up until the disciplinary points, which was the 6th tiebreaker, I don’t see how it’s unfair that Japan went through. If you want to say Senegal got handed more yellows because they’re African, then how do you know Japan couldn’t also have been susceptible to receive cards for being Asian? They are minorities just as well. The disciplinary points tiebreaker IS fair, because it is a tangible stat that can be measured. Drawing lots, the next tiebreaker, is what would truly have been unfair.

LOL, this is the world's game, and in that context neither Africans nor Asians are "minorities."

Population of Africa = 1.2 bn
Population of Asia = 4.4 bn
Popopulation of N.Am + Europe combined = 1.3 bn

FWIW, I don't like the "fair play" tiebreaker either b/c different refs can have very different propensities for handing out cards. Even within a given league, certain refs are just more card happy than others - whether it's because of different interpretations of what constitutes a foul, or sometimes just down to different style of game management. So I think it can be pretty random (though not nearly as random as the old way - of just drawing lots).

The rule being what it is though, it's not surprising that a team like Japan would have something of an advantage - just based on their style of play. Looking at their possession stats, head-to-head Japan had a 53% - 47% advantage in their match against Senegal, but the difference was even greater when both played the other two teams in the group. Against Columbia, Japan had the ball 58% of the time, compared to Senegal's 44%. Senegal only had the ball 41% of the match against Poland, while Japan had possession for 54% of the match against the same opponents. So Senegal just spent a lot more of their time defending, which is when yellow cards are most likely to be given out.

I still think a PK shootout the next morning would be a better way to do it. I've witnessed it done that way in some youth tournaments, and I think the drama of something like that happening on the world cup stage would be fun to watch.

That’s a nice sentiment regarding them not being minorities, but it ignores the fact that the tournament is being held in Russia, and the point that refs can have different propensities for handing out cards could affect Japan just as much Senegal. As for style of play, Japan were the more disciplined, more proactive team, so I still believe they were more than deserving to go through. As for groups being decided by a shootout, I believe it’s going to be part of the format once they expand the field, so you just might get your wish.

It's not a sentiment at all. It's simply a fact. Asians and Africans are not minorities.

That being said, it is certainly accurate to say that racism against players of African descent is a huge problem in European football, and in Russia in particular. Having watched all of these matches though, it did not seem to me that Russians in the crowd had any influence over any of the card decisions in these games. One might look at the ref's themselves. For the head to head the ref was Italian. For Senegal's other two games the refs were Bahraini and Serbian. For Japan they were Zambian and Slovenian.

Mind you, I do not think any of this made a bit of difference. I agree with you, Japan played a more pro-active, possession-based game - seeking to keep the ball and constantly looking to attack. I was happy to see them go through, and I don't think Senegal could have given us the match that Japan did against Belgium, which has been the best match of the tournament so far in my opinion.

Not to rub salt in the wound, but I feel Senegal would’ve had a card fest with not a whole lot of play to make up for it, had they gone through to face Belgium. I just think it’s egregious to say that Senegal were screwed over because of something that happened in another game, when they controlled their own destiny in their match and lost as well.