Trump DOJ to prosecute universities for anti-white affirmative action policies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:identity politics, GOP style.

Well, to be fair, Identity Politics was indeed started by liberals.


Check your status here:

- black or African
- white
- Asian
- Hispanic
- Native American
- two or more races
- other
- in love with a tree
- polyamorous
- bisexual ambidextrous
- pansexual wiccan
- still deciding
- Brony


Each day, without fail, my middle school daughter would share some story about how another kid in her class has either switched gender or had embraced some other "form." I can no longer keep up.

So?

My rising junior dd recently filled out some info form on a college website. She was telling me that it not only presented about 10+ gender identity options, but the race question actually was phrased as "which race do you identify as." I suppose we can all just choose whatever we want now. It's like identity mad libs.

I fail to see the problem with this statement. I am half white and half URM. I always identify white. Remember your life experience is not universal to all.

Fine. Then I'm guessing it's OK if I identify as black?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very outdated stereotypes about Asian-Americans, pp. Calling multiple, very different cultures all cheaters. Claiming Asian-Americans don't do sports. Do you even know any Asian-American kids?

I have one kid at Oakton HS and one at TJ. These are not assumptions.

DP with a kid at TJ. And first, TJ has a huge problem with Asian students cheating. Full stop. I am not in a position to speak to any other high school or college. But TJ has a cheating problem, and the two big cheating rings that were busted this year were Asian. Yell and scream if you want, but it's a fact. And second-- lots of Asian kids do play sports there. Less football, basketball, softball, and more swimming, golf, crew. But they play sports.

Also, TJ is an excellent example of why having a school that is 75% Asian is a problem, and why a 75% Asian college is a bad idea. The lack of anyone who is different at TJ-- almost no AA, Hispanic, or low SES and a decreasing white population-- is creating problems. Cheating. Pressure. Mental Health issues. AAs Hispanic and whites don't want to go, to begin with. But also, the sameness of outlooks, values and culture takes something away from classroom discussions and learning to work with people who really are different than you. It's like sending a kid to Liberty. Nothing wrong with the value system there-- but in the real world, everyone is not the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm generally pro-affirmative action but wouldn't a policy of affirmative action based on income work to accomplish the same goals AND take the wind out of the sails of the white nationalists?

I agree with this theoretically. But the issue is how do you prove someone is from poor socio-economic background. Income can be fudged many ways and wealthy whites/asians will work with their accountants to make themselves "financially look poor" for couple of years before their kids apply. Also does income alone change the social background of blacks? No. Many lower middle income or middle income blacks still live in a majority black neighborhood for family reasons.

Therein lies the issue. Everyone is looking for a leg up, no one wants to actually do the work to get ahead.

What do you mean by "do the work to get ahead" ? Define that? Asians also top any admission tests and do plenty of "extra-curricular" activities. So are you ok if Asians are over 50% in any top school, because based on any objective measure they sure deserve it.

NP. Absolutely. College admissions should be race-blind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Check out this chart to see exactly how this effect plays out in admissions to medical schools.



Article discussing it is here:

http://www.aei.org/publication/acceptance-rates-at-us-medical-schools-in-2015-reveal-ongoing-discrimination-against-asian-americans-and-whites/

You seem to believe this chart demonstrates a problem But it's important that we have doctors from different backgrounds/experiences, because it absolutely affects their practice of medicine and their ability to connect with patients. Men on average have higher MCAT scores than women--should they get preference in med school admissions? Isn't it important that we have female doctors as well as male ones?

There is so much that goes into being a good doctor that is not about achievement scores. You need some baseline level of intelligence to be a good doctor, but beyond that baseline, being a good doctor is about so much more than test scores or even innate intelligence--perhaps especially in the primary care specialties, where we have a shortage of providers. In fact, as discussed in the piece below, personality tests are more highly correlated with medical school success than are measures of cognition.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/health/14chen.html

High performance on multiple choice tests is not what makes someone a good doctor.

So someone having dark pigmentation in their skin helps you determine that he or she has these other important, non-score-related traits?

No, but recommendations, volunteer work and extracurriculars, and interviews might.

Am I to believe that there is such a high concentration of these other good traits among Hispanics and Blacks compared to Whites and Asians that they get accepted into medical school at 5-10x the rate with similar college grades and MCAT scores?

The AEI article takes data from the American Association of Medical Colleges and reformats it in the most inflammatory way possible, and then leaves off some pretty critical information. The original data from the American Association of Medical Colleges can be found here:

https://www.aamc.org/download/321498/data/factstablea18.pdf

And specifically, if you look at this table, some crucial facts can be gleaned:

https://www.aamc.org/download/321498/data/factstablea18.pdf



The average total MCAT score of applicants:

All applicants--501.8
White--504.0
Asian--503.1
Hispanic--496.2
Black--494.1

IOW, the average black applicant had an MCAT score that was 2 percent lower than the average white applicant. Not exactly scandalous.

What is also shown in this table (conveniently omitted from the AEI piece), is the racial make-up of the total applicant pool and the total matriculant pool:

All applicants--53,042
White--25,544 (48%)
Asian--10,906 (21%)
Hispanic--3,300 (6%)
Black--4,344 (8%)
Mixed race/ethnicity--4,734 (9%)

All matriculants--21,030
White--10,828 (51%)
Asian--4,475 (21%)
Hispanic--1,335 (6%)
Black--1,497 (7%)
Mixed race/ethnicity--1,858 (9%)

So admission rates (matriculants divided by applicants) are:

White--42%
Asian--41%
Hispanic--40%
Black--34%
Mixed race/ethnicity--39%

And the average total MCAT scores of matriculants are:

White--510.1
Asian--510.5
Hispanic--503.0
Black--502.5
Mixed race/ethnicity--508.1

In 2016-2017, the average black matriculant had a total MCAT score that was 1.5 percent lower than the average white matriculant.

Happy to be corrected if my math or reading of the AAMC's data is off.

Your data doesn't seem to match up the data from this chart. Granted the chart is from 2013-2016 (a different date range) but just looking at the average matriculant MCAT scores from this chart, Blacks score 27.3 and whites score 29.2 that is a 7% difference, not 1.5%. Also you don't touch on grades at all, which is another big difference.

What the chart is attempting to show, and does show quite well I believe, is that it is much easier to get into medical school with the same MCAT score and GPA as a black of Hispanic applicant than it is as a white or Asian applicant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm generally pro-affirmative action but wouldn't a policy of affirmative action based on income work to accomplish the same goals AND take the wind out of the sails of the white nationalists?

I agree with this theoretically. But the issue is how do you prove someone is from poor socio-economic background. Income can be fudged many ways and wealthy whites/asians will work with their accountants to make themselves "financially look poor" for couple of years before their kids apply. Also does income alone change the social background of blacks? No. Many lower middle income or middle income blacks still live in a majority black neighborhood for family reasons.

Therein lies the issue. Everyone is looking for a leg up, no one wants to actually do the work to get ahead.

What do you mean by "do the work to get ahead" ? Define that? Asians also top any admission tests and do plenty of "extra-curricular" activities. So are you ok if Asians are over 50% in any top school, because based on any objective measure they sure deserve it.

If they can rise above the culture of cheating, and if they are Asian Americans as opposed to international students, I feel that they deserve what they earn. Many Asian American families I know forbid sports and other pursuits and require the children to devote 99% of their free time to academics. That is not a lifestyle I would choose, but I assume children of any race would excel in academics with that strategy. I prioritize a well rounded and less stressful childhood over such an academic focus, and I am willing to allow my kids to "suffer" through less than an elite college in order to allow them other pursuits.

You are making a very generic statement about cheating as a culture without any shred of proof. Would you agree that whites getting into Ivies due to legacy as cheating as well, because there is no legacy for non-whites, atleast not yet?

Well if you want to be the best at something then thats all you have to be focused on. A jack of all trade cant be best at one thing by the very definition. So if asians focus only on academics then kudos to them , coz they have picked that specializing will take them far and especially when it is chosen early on. This is a smart strategy and gives them a strong lead. Michael Jordan's of the world are specialists at their craft because thats the only thing they focus on. Asians are creating Michael Jordans in Math/science/business. What's wrong with that? You can continue to be jack of all BUT don't complain when Asians get into Ivies at a much higher rate or become CEOs at a much higher rate. You can't have it both ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very outdated stereotypes about Asian-Americans, pp. Calling multiple, very different cultures all cheaters. Claiming Asian-Americans don't do sports. Do you even know any Asian-American kids?

I have one kid at Oakton HS and one at TJ. These are not assumptions.

DP with a kid at TJ. And first, TJ has a huge problem with Asian students cheating. Full stop. I am not in a position to speak to any other high school or college. But TJ has a cheating problem, and the two big cheating rings that were busted this year were Asian. Yell and scream if you want, but it's a fact. And second-- lots of Asian kids do play sports there. Less football, basketball, softball, and more swimming, golf, crew. But they play sports.

Also, TJ is an excellent example of why having a school that is 75% Asian is a problem, and why a 75% Asian college is a bad idea. The lack of anyone who is different at TJ-- almost no AA, Hispanic, or low SES and a decreasing white population-- is creating problems. Cheating. Pressure. Mental Health issues. AAs Hispanic and whites don't want to go, to begin with. But also, the sameness of outlooks, values and culture takes something away from classroom discussions and learning to work with people who really are different than you. It's like sending a kid to Liberty. Nothing wrong with the value system there-- but in the real world, everyone is not the same.

Hmm, ok, so where is your ire at schools like Banneker that are 99% one race- objectively, SIGNIFICANTLY less diverse than TJ or literally every other high school in the area.

[Anonymous]

And the irony of it all ... standardized test scores are an abysmal indicator of success in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:identity politics, GOP style.

Well, to be fair, Identity Politics was indeed started by liberals.


Check your status here:

- black or African
- white
- Asian
- Hispanic
- Native American
- two or more races
- other
- in love with a tree
- polyamorous
- bisexual ambidextrous
- pansexual wiccan
- still deciding
- Brony


Each day, without fail, my middle school daughter would share some story about how another kid in her class has either switched gender or had embraced some other "form." I can no longer keep up.

So?

My rising junior dd recently filled out some info form on a college website. She was telling me that it not only presented about 10+ gender identity options, but the race question actually was phrased as "which race do you identify as." I suppose we can all just choose whatever we want now. It's like identity mad libs.

I fail to see the problem with this statement. I am half white and half URM. I always identify white. Remember your life experience is not universal to all.

There is an absolute in this situation. You are white and you are (unspecified?) URM. Asking what one identifies as instead of what one is implies that there is no absolute.

but I am genetically two but only identify as one.... not sure what you are saying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why should a black student who has a 3.3 gpa, 1200 sat and who comes from an upper middle class background and has good extracurriculars get into better schools than a white middle class student with a 3.6 gpa, 1300 sat and good extracurriculars? This is reality to many Affirmative action should be on family income not race.

PP, a better question to ask yourself is, Why should a white student who has a 3.3 gpa, 1200 sat and who comes from an upper middle class background and has good extracurriculars get into better schools than a white middle class student with a 3.6 gpa, 1300 sat and good extracurriculars? This is the true reality regardless of Affirmative action.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm generally pro-affirmative action but wouldn't a policy of affirmative action based on income work to accomplish the same goals AND take the wind out of the sails of the white nationalists?

I agree with this theoretically. But the issue is how do you prove someone is from poor socio-economic background. Income can be fudged many ways and wealthy whites/asians will work with their accountants to make themselves "financially look poor" for couple of years before their kids apply. Also does income alone change the social background of blacks? No. Many lower middle income or middle income blacks still live in a majority black neighborhood for family reasons.

Therein lies the issue. Everyone is looking for a leg up, no one wants to actually do the work to get ahead.

What do you mean by "do the work to get ahead" ? Define that? Asians also top any admission tests and do plenty of "extra-curricular" activities. So are you ok if Asians are over 50% in any top school, because based on any objective measure they sure deserve it.

NP. Absolutely. College admissions should be race-blind.

But it is not because that is surefire way to create a permanent underclass citizens with blacks, hispanics and white trash. Asians do well because they come from a very favorable socio-economic background. Once you have that advantage then it matters less which college you get into(an Ivy or Public Ivy). Asians are stuck in a virtuous loop of educated parents make money pass it on to their kids who get top education who make even more money.

But a if black student is denied admission into the top college then its like denying the entire black community for generations after. Blacks are stuck in a negative loop. Blacks don't score well because of social status and are relegated to a a weaker school and the negative loop continues. One or two exceptional student will break this cycle BUT most will not. Is this what you want? Where is upward mobility for blacks?

[Anonymous]

Does anyone on DCUM honestly believe that Trump was academically qualified for UPenn?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:identity politics, GOP style.

Well, to be fair, Identity Politics was indeed started by liberals.


Check your status here:

- black or African
- white
- Asian
- Hispanic
- Native American
- two or more races
- other
- in love with a tree
- polyamorous
- bisexual ambidextrous
- pansexual wiccan
- still deciding
- Brony


Each day, without fail, my middle school daughter would share some story about how another kid in her class has either switched gender or had embraced some other "form." I can no longer keep up.

So?

My rising junior dd recently filled out some info form on a college website. She was telling me that it not only presented about 10+ gender identity options, but the race question actually was phrased as "which race do you identify as." I suppose we can all just choose whatever we want now. It's like identity mad libs.

I fail to see the problem with this statement. I am half white and half URM. I always identify white. Remember your life experience is not universal to all.

There is an absolute in this situation. You are white and you are (unspecified?) URM. Asking what one identifies as instead of what one is implies that there is no absolute.

You are not understanding that in a diverse country THERE IS NO 100% pure anything. There are many Middle East, even Indian or hispanics who LOOK white and are actually Caucasians but just not from Europe. They are white but not European white. So are you gonna tell that only European origin is White?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very outdated stereotypes about Asian-Americans, pp. Calling multiple, very different cultures all cheaters. Claiming Asian-Americans don't do sports. Do you even know any Asian-American kids?

I have one kid at Oakton HS and one at TJ. These are not assumptions.

DP with a kid at TJ. And first, TJ has a huge problem with Asian students cheating. Full stop. I am not in a position to speak to any other high school or college. But TJ has a cheating problem, and the two big cheating rings that were busted this year were Asian. Yell and scream if you want, but it's a fact. And second-- lots of Asian kids do play sports there. Less football, basketball, softball, and more swimming, golf, crew. But they play sports.

Also, TJ is an excellent example of why having a school that is 75% Asian is a problem, and why a 75% Asian college is a bad idea. The lack of anyone who is different at TJ-- almost no AA, Hispanic, or low SES and a decreasing white population-- is creating problems. Cheating. Pressure. Mental Health issues. AAs Hispanic and whites don't want to go, to begin with. But also, the sameness of outlooks, values and culture takes something away from classroom discussions and learning to work with people who really are different than you. It's like sending a kid to Liberty. Nothing wrong with the value system there-- but in the real world, everyone is not the same.

Hmm, ok, so where is your ire at schools like Banneker that are 99% one race- objectively, SIGNIFICANTLY less diverse than TJ or literally every other high school in the area.

I have a kid at TJ, so I know about what is going on at TJ first hand. And in general, the lack of diversity is causing problems AT TJ. I know next to nothing about Banneker. Maybe a Banneker parent or someone who went to a HBCU is in the best position to talk about lack of diversity stemming from overrepresentation of AA students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:identity politics, GOP style.

Well, to be fair, Identity Politics was indeed started by liberals.


Check your status here:

- black or African
- white
- Asian
- Hispanic
- Native American
- two or more races
- other
- in love with a tree
- polyamorous
- bisexual ambidextrous
- pansexual wiccan
- still deciding
- Brony


Each day, without fail, my middle school daughter would share some story about how another kid in her class has either switched gender or had embraced some other "form." I can no longer keep up.

So?

My rising junior dd recently filled out some info form on a college website. She was telling me that it not only presented about 10+ gender identity options, but the race question actually was phrased as "which race do you identify as." I suppose we can all just choose whatever we want now. It's like identity mad libs.

I fail to see the problem with this statement. I am half white and half URM. I always identify white. Remember your life experience is not universal to all.

Fine. Then I'm guessing it's OK if I identify as black?

Go ahead. Rachel Dolezal does but just be prepared for feedback and questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm generally pro-affirmative action but wouldn't a policy of affirmative action based on income work to accomplish the same goals AND take the wind out of the sails of the white nationalists?

I agree with this theoretically. But the issue is how do you prove someone is from poor socio-economic background. Income can be fudged many ways and wealthy whites/asians will work with their accountants to make themselves "financially look poor" for couple of years before their kids apply. Also does income alone change the social background of blacks? No. Many lower middle income or middle income blacks still live in a majority black neighborhood for family reasons.

Therein lies the issue. Everyone is looking for a leg up, no one wants to actually do the work to get ahead.

What do you mean by "do the work to get ahead" ? Define that? Asians also top any admission tests and do plenty of "extra-curricular" activities. So are you ok if Asians are over 50% in any top school, because based on any objective measure they sure deserve it.

NP. Absolutely. College admissions should be race-blind.

But it is not because that is surefire way to create a permanent underclass citizens with blacks, hispanics and white trash. Asians do well because they come from a very favorable socio-economic background. Once you have that advantage then it matters less which college you get into(an Ivy or Public Ivy). Asians are stuck in a virtuous loop of educated parents make money pass it on to their kids who get top education who make even more money.

But a if black student is denied admission into the top college then its like denying the entire black community for generations after. Blacks are stuck in a negative loop. Blacks don't score well because of social status and are relegated to a a weaker school and the negative loop continues. One or two exceptional student will break this cycle BUT most will not. Is this what you want? Where is upward mobility for blacks?

This is some real candor. I think lots of people who support affirmative action believe certain groups like African Americans won't be able to succeed without getting a handout. Other groups can apparently make it on their own, but African Americans cannot.

If you want to help the so-called underclass, that's great! There are tons of ways to do it that don't involve giving kids admission preferences because of the color of their skin.