Someone leaked Trump's 1995 tax returns

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I do give to charity but certainly nothing close to 30% but charitable giving is voluntary and taxes are not.

As I said, all Americans except those who are at poverty level should pay a certain minimum percentage of their income in the way of federal taxes because we all benefit from certain government services. But to castigate someone who uses the tax laws to avoid taxes is ridiculous whether it is Trump or anyone else.

Someone like Trump who does pay taxes despite his income may be penalized in the court of public opinion or by voters. I personally would not vote for Trump for other reasons but the fact that he pays little or no taxes is not a factor for me in how I'd vote.

What is missing in this entire thread is any sense of outrage that we have tax laws in effect that allows someone like Trump not to pay any taxes. Tax laws can be changed but it requires a resolve by voters that extends beyond anger at Trump or anyone else who takes advantage of existing tax laws.

You are kidding, right? This whole election is about that outrage. Unfortunately, the people who are most screwed are also stupid and picked Trump. If only they had coalesced around somebody sane. For this election, though, if we want to avoid WWIII, we are doomed, and most of us realize this. We won't forget this outrage, though, and hopefully we'll get somebody good to run in 4 years.

And if you think that obeying the rules makes you a good person, then you are morally bankrupt. Our society will fall apart if all of us does whatever we can do to better ourselves without breaking the rules. Nobody, no congress, nothing can write rules that are so iron clad that they cannot be avoided. The only way to have a stable sane society is if our intelligent, ambitious, strong men and women follow the spirit behind the law and not just the letter.

I am not kidding: we have two candidates who are deeply flawed and who are promising things that cannot be delivered.

If anyone seriously believes that the tax code will be revised to eliminate tax loopholes irrespective of who becomes president is living in a dreamland. The one candidate who really wanted to create a more equitable society was Bernie Sanders and he subsequently lost and caved to become a Hillary supporter and his sole rationale is that she is the lesser of two evils.

Sanders is the person who lambasted her on so many issues ranging from an inherently corrupt and rigged system to waging foreign wars - and now he wants his supporters to back her!

I agree that there is no choice that will reform taxes. However, whether we like it or not, we have to choose between Trump and Clinton. One is as vain, egotistic, and narcissistic as a third world dictator, who can produce no evidence that he has ever done good for anybody except his family, believes all kinds of bizarre conspiracy theories, and can be goaded into tweeting idiocy at 3 AM. And one is just a run-of-the-mill politician. I know which one I'll pick.

This is where I part company with you: Hillary is no run of the mill politician. She is as dishonest as they come even by the standards of politicians. You may think she is the lesser of the two evils. I think they are both unacceptable.

I think they are both disgusting individuals and for the first time in well over two decades, I refuse to vote for a Democrat in the presidential election. In fact, if someone like Kasich were running I'd have voted Republican for the first time.

One of them will become president and I will defer to others to decide which one should be elected. I wish everyone Republican or Democrat who find the choices offered them would actually write-in a candidate who we deem an acceptable alternative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread underscores the reason why it's a bad idea for Trump to release his tax returns, because armchair CPAs and financial analysts will misunderstand the numbers and twist it to fit their existing viewpoint.

It's simply standard tax treatment that net operating loses of a company can be carried forward up to 20 years, offsetting future operating profits. The reason this is done is very simple, a company's activity may not be a smooth and even event, costs incurred and recognized in one year may not bring revenue until future years. Think of a startup that initially is spending a lot of efforts building a new product, but cannot make any money until the product is complete. It cost them 1 million dollars to create the product in the first year, and in the second year, they made 2 million dollars selling the product. Isn't it logical to allow the company to deduct the 1 million in cost from the 2 million in profit?

Anyone who is expressing outrage over Trump's carrying forward of net operating losses is simply not understanding basic tax accounting concepts. And anyone who disagrees with the tax law that allows carry forward of net operating losses does not understand how a business functions.

The outrage is not about that. It is about being very rich but contributing nothing, no taxes, no charity, nothing at all to the less fortunate. It is about somebody who only thinks about himself 100% of the time. That person would, with the power of the presidency, be able to act like those leaders in the 3rd world who steal all that they can steal. It is also outrage about somebody who is not ashamed to say he is a great business man when he lost close to a billion dollars. If he can hold his head up and say that, what other things can he do?

PP here. How do you know he paid no taxes? How do you know he does not give to Charity? Do you have all of his tax returns? If not then you are guessing, like everyone else.

Everyone is selfish and greedy - it's a basic human trait and one of the cornerstones of capitalism. Sure he lost a billion dollars, but he had earned a billion dollars to lose. Why cherry pick his failures rather than view his level of business success as a whole? The fact is, Trump is a very successful business man despite his massive loss in 1995. Steve Jobs was kicked out of Apple at one point, and has very obvious character flaws, but who can deny his vision and effectiveness as a leader in growing Apple?

+1,000,000 - Dems are mad at Trumps financial genius.
Too bad.

[Anonymous]

No, he apparently didn't do anything illegal. It is just ridiculous to suggest that Trump will make a good leader when he cannot run his own businesses and hasn't had a stake in the American community for decades, if ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, he apparently didn't do anything illegal. It is just ridiculous to suggest that Trump will make a good leader when he cannot run his own businesses and hasn't had a stake in the American community for decades, if ever.

Except he shows that even in failure, he makes success. He holds the record for the biggest financial turnaround. He's very successful.

On the other hand, Hillary has a very unremarkable career as a senator and presided over some of the worst foreign policy disasters in American history.
The collapse of regimes in the ME that were favorable to American interests, four dead diplomats, the failed Russian reset. Let's also not forget her "experience" includes lying about being shot at in Bosnia. What a gal!

[Anonymous]

But if this proves Trumps financial genius- why is he refusing to release it?


Is he too stupid to show everyone how smart he is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, he apparently didn't do anything illegal. It is just ridiculous to suggest that Trump will make a good leader when he cannot run his own businesses and hasn't had a stake in the American community for decades, if ever.

Except he shows that even in failure, he makes success. He holds the record for the biggest financial turnaround. He's very successful.

On the other hand, Hillary has a very unremarkable career as a senator and presided over some of the worst foreign policy disasters in American history.
The collapse of regimes in the ME that were favorable to American interests, four dead diplomats, the failed Russian reset. Let's also not forget her "experience" includes lying about being shot at in Bosnia. What a gal!

Yes, he's successful in that he cheats and lies, uses his charity to hide his income and also to pay his legal fees. We are all too stupid apparently to open a charitable foundation to do all this. Good on him, and good on you for thinking he will change any of these laws that would hurt his business. Dumb ass!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread underscores the reason why it's a bad idea for Trump to release his tax returns, because armchair CPAs and financial analysts will misunderstand the numbers and twist it to fit their existing viewpoint.

It's simply standard tax treatment that net operating loses of a company can be carried forward up to 20 years, offsetting future operating profits. The reason this is done is very simple, a company's activity may not be a smooth and even event, costs incurred and recognized in one year may not bring revenue until future years. Think of a startup that initially is spending a lot of efforts building a new product, but cannot make any money until the product is complete. It cost them 1 million dollars to create the product in the first year, and in the second year, they made 2 million dollars selling the product. Isn't it logical to allow the company to deduct the 1 million in cost from the 2 million in profit?

Anyone who is expressing outrage over Trump's carrying forward of net operating losses is simply not understanding basic tax accounting concepts. And anyone who disagrees with the tax law that allows carry forward of net operating losses does not understand how a business functions.

The outrage is not about that. It is about being very rich but contributing nothing, no taxes, no charity, nothing at all to the less fortunate. It is about somebody who only thinks about himself 100% of the time. That person would, with the power of the presidency, be able to act like those leaders in the 3rd world who steal all that they can steal. It is also outrage about somebody who is not ashamed to say he is a great business man when he lost close to a billion dollars. If he can hold his head up and say that, what other things can he do?

PP here. How do you know he paid no taxes? How do you know he does not give to Charity? Do you have all of his tax returns? If not then you are guessing, like everyone else.

Everyone is selfish and greedy - it's a basic human trait and one of the cornerstones of capitalism. Sure he lost a billion dollars, but he had earned a billion dollars to lose. Why cherry pick his failures rather than view his level of business success as a whole? The fact is, Trump is a very successful business man despite his massive loss in 1995. Steve Jobs was kicked out of Apple at one point, and has very obvious character flaws, but who can deny his vision and effectiveness as a leader in growing Apple?

+1,000,000 - Dems are mad at Trumps financial genius.
Too bad.

lol., and there's the pro-Trump +1,000,000 poster!

Do you think Trump does his taxes? It's his cpa that's smart, not him. I own a business, and my cpa does all my taxes, too.

He has also cheated NJ taxpayers by not paying the taxes that he owed from the casinos after his pal Christie widdled the payments down to a fraction. Gosh, you Trump supporters are so gullible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I do give to charity but certainly nothing close to 30% but charitable giving is voluntary and taxes are not.

As I said, all Americans except those who are at poverty level should pay a certain minimum percentage of their income in the way of federal taxes because we all benefit from certain government services. But to castigate someone who uses the tax laws to avoid taxes is ridiculous whether it is Trump or anyone else.

Someone like Trump who does pay taxes despite his income may be penalized in the court of public opinion or by voters. I personally would not vote for Trump for other reasons but the fact that he pays little or no taxes is not a factor for me in how I'd vote.

What is missing in this entire thread is any sense of outrage that we have tax laws in effect that allows someone like Trump not to pay any taxes. Tax laws can be changed but it requires a resolve by voters that extends beyond anger at Trump or anyone else who takes advantage of existing tax laws.

You are kidding, right? This whole election is about that outrage. Unfortunately, the people who are most screwed are also stupid and picked Trump. If only they had coalesced around somebody sane. For this election, though, if we want to avoid WWIII, we are doomed, and most of us realize this. We won't forget this outrage, though, and hopefully we'll get somebody good to run in 4 years.

And if you think that obeying the rules makes you a good person, then you are morally bankrupt. Our society will fall apart if all of us does whatever we can do to better ourselves without breaking the rules. Nobody, no congress, nothing can write rules that are so iron clad that they cannot be avoided. The only way to have a stable sane society is if our intelligent, ambitious, strong men and women follow the spirit behind the law and not just the letter.

I am not kidding: we have two candidates who are deeply flawed and who are promising things that cannot be delivered.

If anyone seriously believes that the tax code will be revised to eliminate tax loopholes irrespective of who becomes president is living in a dreamland. The one candidate who really wanted to create a more equitable society was Bernie Sanders and he subsequently lost and caved to become a Hillary supporter and his sole rationale is that she is the lesser of two evils.

Sanders is the person who lambasted her on so many issues ranging from an inherently corrupt and rigged system to waging foreign wars - and now he wants his supporters to back her!

The fact that you would call straight forward carrying forward of operating loses a "tax loophole" illustrates to me that you have no understanding of the issues at hand. If you are going to be outraged, at least make sure your outrage has a rational basis.

I used the tax loophole terminology because that is how the average person sees NOL carried forward. You are not going to convince most Americans that there is a legitimate reason why NOL carry forwards can be offset against future income.

Now there are modifications that may make sense for example limiting the NOL offset in each future year to a predetermined amount or percentage similar to the limitation that currently exists for individuals in offsetting capital losses.

Common ignorance is not a good excuse for using incorrect terminology to describe something. The ability to carry over net operating losses is a direct intended effect of the law and a key component that allows a company to make near term investments for long term rewards. Under no rational circumstance would it make sense to limit NOL carry forward to offset future gains. However, I want to point out that the tax law does actually place a limit of carry forward to 20 years. Why 20 years, I don't know.

I want to point out that there is no limitation on personal capital losses for offsetting future capital gains. The only limit is using capital loss to off-set ordinary income. The limit is put in place, I suppose, is because the two income classes are treated differently under tax law, and the US government does not want ordinary tax revenue to be used to over-subsidize risk taking of private individuals. Also, I can imagine a scheme where I "lose" my investments to "someone", who pays a lower capital gains rate of tax, and I then use the capital losses to deduct against my ordinary income, which is at a higher rate. Pinching it at $3K effectively prevents those types of shenanigans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But if this proves Trumps financial genius- why is he refusing to release it?


Is he too stupid to show everyone how smart he is?

No, because as shown in this thread, the media will twist something as benign as NOL carry over into an evil master plan for not paying taxes for 18 years, and the masses will fall in line with pitch forks and tar/feathers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:lol., and there's the pro-Trump +1,000,000 poster!

Do you think Trump does his taxes? It's his cpa that's smart, not him. I own a business, and my cpa does all my taxes, too.

He has also cheated NJ taxpayers by not paying the taxes that he owed from the casinos after his pal Christie widdled the payments down to a fraction. Gosh, you Trump supporters are so gullible.

I really don't care at this point. I'm comfortable with Trump and his tax payments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread underscores the reason why it's a bad idea for Trump to release his tax returns, because armchair CPAs and financial analysts will misunderstand the numbers and twist it to fit their existing viewpoint.

It's simply standard tax treatment that net operating loses of a company can be carried forward up to 20 years, offsetting future operating profits. The reason this is done is very simple, a company's activity may not be a smooth and even event, costs incurred and recognized in one year may not bring revenue until future years. Think of a startup that initially is spending a lot of efforts building a new product, but cannot make any money until the product is complete. It cost them 1 million dollars to create the product in the first year, and in the second year, they made 2 million dollars selling the product. Isn't it logical to allow the company to deduct the 1 million in cost from the 2 million in profit?

Anyone who is expressing outrage over Trump's carrying forward of net operating losses is simply not understanding basic tax accounting concepts. And anyone who disagrees with the tax law that allows carry forward of net operating losses does not understand how a business functions.

The outrage is not about that. It is about being very rich but contributing nothing, no taxes, no charity, nothing at all to the less fortunate. It is about somebody who only thinks about himself 100% of the time. That person would, with the power of the presidency, be able to act like those leaders in the 3rd world who steal all that they can steal. It is also outrage about somebody who is not ashamed to say he is a great business man when he lost close to a billion dollars. If he can hold his head up and say that, what other things can he do?

PP here. How do you know he paid no taxes? How do you know he does not give to Charity? Do you have all of his tax returns? If not then you are guessing, like everyone else.

Everyone is selfish and greedy - it's a basic human trait and one of the cornerstones of capitalism. Sure he lost a billion dollars, but he had earned a billion dollars to lose. Why cherry pick his failures rather than view his level of business success as a whole? The fact is, Trump is a very successful business man despite his massive loss in 1995. Steve Jobs was kicked out of Apple at one point, and has very obvious character flaws, but who can deny his vision and effectiveness as a leader in growing Apple?

+1,000,000 - Dems are mad at Trumps financial genius.
Too bad.

lol., and there's the pro-Trump +1,000,000 poster!

Do you think Trump does his taxes? It's his cpa that's smart, not him. I own a business, and my cpa does all my taxes, too.

He has also cheated NJ taxpayers by not paying the taxes that he owed from the casinos after his pal Christie widdled the payments down to a fraction. Gosh, you Trump supporters are so gullible.

So what you are saying is that if Trump didn't pay any taxes, it's not his fault, really. So the left has no basis for attacking him for not paying taxes. They should be going after the CPA. His/her license should be revoked!

Y'all need to get your story straight, have a huddle and figure out what it is you are complaining about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, he apparently didn't do anything illegal. It is just ridiculous to suggest that Trump will make a good leader when he cannot run his own businesses and hasn't had a stake in the American community for decades, if ever.

Except he shows that even in failure, he makes success. He holds the record for the biggest financial turnaround. He's very successful.

On the other hand, Hillary has a very unremarkable career as a senator and presided over some of the worst foreign policy disasters in American history.
The collapse of regimes in the ME that were favorable to American interests, four dead diplomats, the failed Russian reset. Let's also not forget her "experience" includes lying about being shot at in Bosnia. What a gal!

Nobody knows how much debt he has and no one knows what his actual net worth is. No body but himself says his net worth is $10Billion. The only way to know is to see the tax returns.

Yeah he will surely put his business skill of bankrupting to good use by bankrupting America but unlike his life, there is no coming back after US goes bankrupt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol., and there's the pro-Trump +1,000,000 poster!

Do you think Trump does his taxes? It's his cpa that's smart, not him. I own a business, and my cpa does all my taxes, too.

He has also cheated NJ taxpayers by not paying the taxes that he owed from the casinos after his pal Christie widdled the payments down to a fraction. Gosh, you Trump supporters are so gullible.

I really don't care at this point. I'm comfortable with Trump and his tax payments.

I am sure you will be comfortable when he puts his ONLY business skill, bankrupting, to good use by bankrupting America and taking the country through default. But there is no coming back from American default. The END. He sure has a good plan to do it by giving a huge tax cuts to the rich like himself and increasing the debt even more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol., and there's the pro-Trump +1,000,000 poster!

Do you think Trump does his taxes? It's his cpa that's smart, not him. I own a business, and my cpa does all my taxes, too.

He has also cheated NJ taxpayers by not paying the taxes that he owed from the casinos after his pal Christie widdled the payments down to a fraction. Gosh, you Trump supporters are so gullible.

I really don't care at this point. I'm comfortable with Trump and his tax payments.

I am sure you will be comfortable when he puts his ONLY business skill, bankrupting, to good use by bankrupting America and taking the country through default. But there is no coming back from American default. The END. He sure has a good plan to do it by giving a huge tax cuts to the rich like himself and increasing the debt even more.

We're already bankrupt.
I know he holds the world record for the most financial turnaround in history. I'll take that, so he can get us back on track.

[Anonymous]

There is a contract that a capitalistic society makes between the capitalist and the society at large. The capitalistic business man gets to enjoy favorable business environment(carry over of losses from previous years, lower taxes, various deductions, tax breaks etc) as a reward for his enterprise and risk. The society also provides service with security for the business(cops, fire service, etc), infrastructure(roads, Utility, Internet etc), Talent pool(colleges that creates a talent base) and other social benefits.

In return the business person pays taxes to support the society, if not at the beginning of the business few years afterwards in return for all the rewards provided as explained above. THIS IS THE TRUST THE SOCIETY gives to the entrepreneurs hoping they wont betray their trust. Another aspect of this is charity for the society at large for various causes.

In Trump's case it is obvious that he doesn't pay taxes BUT atleast he can pay to charity. BUT He hasn't given much to charity either. This makes TRUMP A LEECH who betrays the very principles of capitalism and trust of the society. The core idea of capitalism is to make it easy to create value from an idea which becomes a business to serve its customers. To make a successful entrepreneur there is so much sacrifice that the country, state and local community does. But Uncivilized, Uncouth, Unprincipled Leeches like trump get rich on the back of the common man BUT NEVER GIVES BACK. That is such a shame! It is even worse that such a shameful man is admired by the very community he has been sucking from.