Someone leaked Trump's 1995 tax returns

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread underscores the reason why it's a bad idea for Trump to release his tax returns, because armchair CPAs and financial analysts will misunderstand the numbers and twist it to fit their existing viewpoint.

It's simply standard tax treatment that net operating loses of a company can be carried forward up to 20 years, offsetting future operating profits. The reason this is done is very simple, a company's activity may not be a smooth and even event, costs incurred and recognized in one year may not bring revenue until future years. Think of a startup that initially is spending a lot of efforts building a new product, but cannot make any money until the product is complete. It cost them 1 million dollars to create the product in the first year, and in the second year, they made 2 million dollars selling the product. Isn't it logical to allow the company to deduct the 1 million in cost from the 2 million in profit?

Anyone who is expressing outrage over Trump's carrying forward of net operating losses is simply not understanding basic tax accounting concepts. And anyone who disagrees with the tax law that allows carry forward of net operating losses does not understand how a business functions.

The outrage is not about that. It is about being very rich but contributing nothing, no taxes, no charity, nothing at all to the less fortunate. It is about somebody who only thinks about himself 100% of the time. That person would, with the power of the presidency, be able to act like those leaders in the 3rd world who steal all that they can steal. It is also outrage about somebody who is not ashamed to say he is a great business man when he lost close to a billion dollars. If he can hold his head up and say that, what other things can he do?

PP here. How do you know he paid no taxes? How do you know he does not give to Charity? Do you have all of his tax returns? If not then you are guessing, like everyone else.

Everyone is selfish and greedy - it's a basic human trait and one of the cornerstones of capitalism. Sure he lost a billion dollars, but he had earned a billion dollars to lose. Why cherry pick his failures rather than view his level of business success as a whole? The fact is, Trump is a very successful business man despite his massive loss in 1995. Steve Jobs was kicked out of Apple at one point, and has very obvious character flaws, but who can deny his vision and effectiveness as a leader in growing Apple?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I do give to charity but certainly nothing close to 30% but charitable giving is voluntary and taxes are not.

As I said, all Americans except those who are at poverty level should pay a certain minimum percentage of their income in the way of federal taxes because we all benefit from certain government services. But to castigate someone who uses the tax laws to avoid taxes is ridiculous whether it is Trump or anyone else.

Someone like Trump who does pay taxes despite his income may be penalized in the court of public opinion or by voters. I personally would not vote for Trump for other reasons but the fact that he pays little or no taxes is not a factor for me in how I'd vote.

What is missing in this entire thread is any sense of outrage that we have tax laws in effect that allows someone like Trump not to pay any taxes. Tax laws can be changed but it requires a resolve by voters that extends beyond anger at Trump or anyone else who takes advantage of existing tax laws.

You are kidding, right? This whole election is about that outrage. Unfortunately, the people who are most screwed are also stupid and picked Trump. If only they had coalesced around somebody sane. For this election, though, if we want to avoid WWIII, we are doomed, and most of us realize this. We won't forget this outrage, though, and hopefully we'll get somebody good to run in 4 years.

And if you think that obeying the rules makes you a good person, then you are morally bankrupt. Our society will fall apart if all of us does whatever we can do to better ourselves without breaking the rules. Nobody, no congress, nothing can write rules that are so iron clad that they cannot be avoided. The only way to have a stable sane society is if our intelligent, ambitious, strong men and women follow the spirit behind the law and not just the letter.

I am not kidding: we have two candidates who are deeply flawed and who are promising things that cannot be delivered.

If anyone seriously believes that the tax code will be revised to eliminate tax loopholes irrespective of who becomes president is living in a dreamland. The one candidate who really wanted to create a more equitable society was Bernie Sanders and he subsequently lost and caved to become a Hillary supporter and his sole rationale is that she is the lesser of two evils.

Sanders is the person who lambasted her on so many issues ranging from an inherently corrupt and rigged system to waging foreign wars - and now he wants his supporters to back her!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I do give to charity but certainly nothing close to 30% but charitable giving is voluntary and taxes are not.

As I said, all Americans except those who are at poverty level should pay a certain minimum percentage of their income in the way of federal taxes because we all benefit from certain government services. But to castigate someone who uses the tax laws to avoid taxes is ridiculous whether it is Trump or anyone else.

Someone like Trump who does pay taxes despite his income may be penalized in the court of public opinion or by voters. I personally would not vote for Trump for other reasons but the fact that he pays little or no taxes is not a factor for me in how I'd vote.

What is missing in this entire thread is any sense of outrage that we have tax laws in effect that allows someone like Trump not to pay any taxes. Tax laws can be changed but it requires a resolve by voters that extends beyond anger at Trump or anyone else who takes advantage of existing tax laws.

You are kidding, right? This whole election is about that outrage. Unfortunately, the people who are most screwed are also stupid and picked Trump. If only they had coalesced around somebody sane. For this election, though, if we want to avoid WWIII, we are doomed, and most of us realize this. We won't forget this outrage, though, and hopefully we'll get somebody good to run in 4 years.

And if you think that obeying the rules makes you a good person, then you are morally bankrupt. Our society will fall apart if all of us does whatever we can do to better ourselves without breaking the rules. Nobody, no congress, nothing can write rules that are so iron clad that they cannot be avoided. The only way to have a stable sane society is if our intelligent, ambitious, strong men and women follow the spirit behind the law and not just the letter.

I am not kidding: we have two candidates who are deeply flawed and who are promising things that cannot be delivered.

If anyone seriously believes that the tax code will be revised to eliminate tax loopholes irrespective of who becomes president is living in a dreamland. The one candidate who really wanted to create a more equitable society was Bernie Sanders and he subsequently lost and caved to become a Hillary supporter and his sole rationale is that she is the lesser of two evils.

Sanders is the person who lambasted her on so many issues ranging from an inherently corrupt and rigged system to waging foreign wars - and now he wants his supporters to back her!

The fact that you would call straight forward carrying forward of operating loses a "tax loophole" illustrates to me that you have no understanding of the issues at hand. If you are going to be outraged, at least make sure your outrage has a rational basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A more legitimate concern would be his charitable contributions. As a business owner myself (not in Trump 's league, LOL), I've had years where I legally had no tax obligation, but I've always been generous with charitable contributions.

I agree with Trump that the government wastes an extraordinary amount of money, and - if legally allowed - I'd much prefer to choose how to give my money: veterans' groups, disease research, animal programs, etc. So....did Trump's taxes reveal a total for charitable deductions? That would be much more telling.

They probably all went to the Trump foundation.

I believe the Clinton Foundation worked in a similar fashion.

Difference being the Clinton Foundation actually does a tremendous amount of charitable work in the world. Trump Foundation buys portraits of Trump. Get it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I do give to charity but certainly nothing close to 30% but charitable giving is voluntary and taxes are not.

As I said, all Americans except those who are at poverty level should pay a certain minimum percentage of their income in the way of federal taxes because we all benefit from certain government services. But to castigate someone who uses the tax laws to avoid taxes is ridiculous whether it is Trump or anyone else.

Someone like Trump who does pay taxes despite his income may be penalized in the court of public opinion or by voters. I personally would not vote for Trump for other reasons but the fact that he pays little or no taxes is not a factor for me in how I'd vote.

What is missing in this entire thread is any sense of outrage that we have tax laws in effect that allows someone like Trump not to pay any taxes. Tax laws can be changed but it requires a resolve by voters that extends beyond anger at Trump or anyone else who takes advantage of existing tax laws.

You are kidding, right? This whole election is about that outrage. Unfortunately, the people who are most screwed are also stupid and picked Trump. If only they had coalesced around somebody sane. For this election, though, if we want to avoid WWIII, we are doomed, and most of us realize this. We won't forget this outrage, though, and hopefully we'll get somebody good to run in 4 years.

And if you think that obeying the rules makes you a good person, then you are morally bankrupt. Our society will fall apart if all of us does whatever we can do to better ourselves without breaking the rules. Nobody, no congress, nothing can write rules that are so iron clad that they cannot be avoided. The only way to have a stable sane society is if our intelligent, ambitious, strong men and women follow the spirit behind the law and not just the letter.

I am not kidding: we have two candidates who are deeply flawed and who are promising things that cannot be delivered.

If anyone seriously believes that the tax code will be revised to eliminate tax loopholes irrespective of who becomes president is living in a dreamland. The one candidate who really wanted to create a more equitable society was Bernie Sanders and he subsequently lost and caved to become a Hillary supporter and his sole rationale is that she is the lesser of two evils.

Sanders is the person who lambasted her on so many issues ranging from an inherently corrupt and rigged system to waging foreign wars - and now he wants his supporters to back her!

The fact that you would call straight forward carrying forward of operating loses a "tax loophole" illustrates to me that you have no understanding of the issues at hand. If you are going to be outraged, at least make sure your outrage has a rational basis.

I used the tax loophole terminology because that is how the average person sees NOL carried forward. You are not going to convince most Americans that there is a legitimate reason why NOL carry forwards can be offset against future income.

Now there are modifications that may make sense for example limiting the NOL offset in each future year to a predetermined amount or percentage similar to the limitation that currently exists for individuals in offsetting capital losses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread underscores the reason why it's a bad idea for Trump to release his tax returns, because armchair CPAs and financial analysts will misunderstand the numbers and twist it to fit their existing viewpoint.

It's simply standard tax treatment that net operating loses of a company can be carried forward up to 20 years, offsetting future operating profits. The reason this is done is very simple, a company's activity may not be a smooth and even event, costs incurred and recognized in one year may not bring revenue until future years. Think of a startup that initially is spending a lot of efforts building a new product, but cannot make any money until the product is complete. It cost them 1 million dollars to create the product in the first year, and in the second year, they made 2 million dollars selling the product. Isn't it logical to allow the company to deduct the 1 million in cost from the 2 million in profit?

Anyone who is expressing outrage over Trump's carrying forward of net operating losses is simply not understanding basic tax accounting concepts. And anyone who disagrees with the tax law that allows carry forward of net operating losses does not understand how a business functions.

The outrage is not about that. It is about being very rich but contributing nothing, no taxes, no charity, nothing at all to the less fortunate. It is about somebody who only thinks about himself 100% of the time. That person would, with the power of the presidency, be able to act like those leaders in the 3rd world who steal all that they can steal. It is also outrage about somebody who is not ashamed to say he is a great business man when he lost close to a billion dollars. If he can hold his head up and say that, what other things can he do?

PP here. How do you know he paid no taxes? How do you know he does not give to Charity? Do you have all of his tax returns? If not then you are guessing, like everyone else.

Everyone is selfish and greedy - it's a basic human trait and one of the cornerstones of capitalism. Sure he lost a billion dollars, but he had earned a billion dollars to lose. Why cherry pick his failures rather than view his level of business success as a whole? The fact is, Trump is a very successful business man despite his massive loss in 1995. Steve Jobs was kicked out of Apple at one point, and has very obvious character flaws, but who can deny his vision and effectiveness as a leader in growing Apple?

See, my definition of a successful businessman is someone who makes a lot of wealth not just for himself but for others. Tell all those workers at the casinos in Atlantic City who lost pensions and health care and jobs that Trump is a successful businessman. Tell all those contractors whose bills he never paid that Trump is a successful businessman. Sure, he made a ton of money selling his name. But he didn't give a hoot about other people involved in his "businesses."

[Anonymous]

These folks is off the chain you hear me?
Colin Kapernick getting death threats and vilified as un-American for kneeling during the friggin anthem...but he pays his taxes.
Meanwhile Donald is getting called a "genius" and is the embodiment of patriotism to these nutjobs for being xenophobic, a misogynist, a racist, and not paying a dime in taxes for over a decade.
Gotta love it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A more legitimate concern would be his charitable contributions. As a business owner myself (not in Trump 's league, LOL), I've had years where I legally had no tax obligation, but I've always been generous with charitable contributions.

I agree with Trump that the government wastes an extraordinary amount of money, and - if legally allowed - I'd much prefer to choose how to give my money: veterans' groups, disease research, animal programs, etc. So....did Trump's taxes reveal a total for charitable deductions? That would be much more telling.

They probably all went to the Trump foundation.

I believe the Clinton Foundation worked in a similar fashion.

Difference being the Clinton Foundation actually does a tremendous amount of charitable work in the world. Trump Foundation buys portraits of Trump. Get it?

There a lot of Haitian people who beg tonsoffer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A more legitimate concern would be his charitable contributions. As a business owner myself (not in Trump 's league, LOL), I've had years where I legally had no tax obligation, but I've always been generous with charitable contributions.

I agree with Trump that the government wastes an extraordinary amount of money, and - if legally allowed - I'd much prefer to choose how to give my money: veterans' groups, disease research, animal programs, etc. So....did Trump's taxes reveal a total for charitable deductions? That would be much more telling.

They probably all went to the Trump foundation.

I believe the Clinton Foundation worked in a similar fashion.

Difference being the Clinton Foundation actually does a tremendous amount of charitable work in the world. Trump Foundation buys portraits of Trump. Get it?

There a lot of Haitian people who beg tonsoffer

And you think that the Clintons are totally responsible for that? Bless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These folks is off the chain you hear me?
Colin Kapernick getting death threats and vilified as un-American for kneeling during the friggin anthem...but he pays his taxes.
Meanwhile Donald is getting called a "genius" and is the embodiment of patriotism to these nutjobs for being xenophobic, a misogynist, a racist, and not paying a dime in taxes for over a decade.
Gotta love it.

Except he isn't any of the above things you mentioned. You should try critical thinking for once instead of regurgitating talking points from the hosts of the View

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These folks is off the chain you hear me?
Colin Kapernick getting death threats and vilified as un-American for kneeling during the friggin anthem...but he pays his taxes.
Meanwhile Donald is getting called a "genius" and is the embodiment of patriotism to these nutjobs for being xenophobic, a misogynist, a racist, and not paying a dime in taxes for over a decade.
Gotta love it.

Except he isn't any of the above things you mentioned. You should try critical thinking for once instead of regurgitating talking points from the hosts of the View

Unless you just crawled out from under a rock you might want to employ some critical thinking yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread underscores the reason why it's a bad idea for Trump to release his tax returns, because armchair CPAs and financial analysts will misunderstand the numbers and twist it to fit their existing viewpoint.

It's simply standard tax treatment that net operating loses of a company can be carried forward up to 20 years, offsetting future operating profits. The reason this is done is very simple, a company's activity may not be a smooth and even event, costs incurred and recognized in one year may not bring revenue until future years. Think of a startup that initially is spending a lot of efforts building a new product, but cannot make any money until the product is complete. It cost them 1 million dollars to create the product in the first year, and in the second year, they made 2 million dollars selling the product. Isn't it logical to allow the company to deduct the 1 million in cost from the 2 million in profit?

Anyone who is expressing outrage over Trump's carrying forward of net operating losses is simply not understanding basic tax accounting concepts. And anyone who disagrees with the tax law that allows carry forward of net operating losses does not understand how a business functions.

The outrage is not about that. It is about being very rich but contributing nothing, no taxes, no charity, nothing at all to the less fortunate. It is about somebody who only thinks about himself 100% of the time. That person would, with the power of the presidency, be able to act like those leaders in the 3rd world who steal all that they can steal. It is also outrage about somebody who is not ashamed to say he is a great business man when he lost close to a billion dollars. If he can hold his head up and say that, what other things can he do?

PP here. How do you know he paid no taxes? How do you know he does not give to Charity? Do you have all of his tax returns? If not then you are guessing, like everyone else.

Everyone is selfish and greedy - it's a basic human trait and one of the cornerstones of capitalism. Sure he lost a billion dollars, but he had earned a billion dollars to lose. Why cherry pick his failures rather than view his level of business success as a whole? The fact is, Trump is a very successful business man despite his massive loss in 1995. Steve Jobs was kicked out of Apple at one point, and has very obvious character flaws, but who can deny his vision and effectiveness as a leader in growing Apple?

Everybody has a part of themself that is selfish and greedy, but some are much more selfish and greedy than others. And, if he is paying taxes and contributing to charities, he is doing a great job of hiding this fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I do give to charity but certainly nothing close to 30% but charitable giving is voluntary and taxes are not.

As I said, all Americans except those who are at poverty level should pay a certain minimum percentage of their income in the way of federal taxes because we all benefit from certain government services. But to castigate someone who uses the tax laws to avoid taxes is ridiculous whether it is Trump or anyone else.

Someone like Trump who does pay taxes despite his income may be penalized in the court of public opinion or by voters. I personally would not vote for Trump for other reasons but the fact that he pays little or no taxes is not a factor for me in how I'd vote.

What is missing in this entire thread is any sense of outrage that we have tax laws in effect that allows someone like Trump not to pay any taxes. Tax laws can be changed but it requires a resolve by voters that extends beyond anger at Trump or anyone else who takes advantage of existing tax laws.

You are kidding, right? This whole election is about that outrage. Unfortunately, the people who are most screwed are also stupid and picked Trump. If only they had coalesced around somebody sane. For this election, though, if we want to avoid WWIII, we are doomed, and most of us realize this. We won't forget this outrage, though, and hopefully we'll get somebody good to run in 4 years.

And if you think that obeying the rules makes you a good person, then you are morally bankrupt. Our society will fall apart if all of us does whatever we can do to better ourselves without breaking the rules. Nobody, no congress, nothing can write rules that are so iron clad that they cannot be avoided. The only way to have a stable sane society is if our intelligent, ambitious, strong men and women follow the spirit behind the law and not just the letter.

I am not kidding: we have two candidates who are deeply flawed and who are promising things that cannot be delivered.

If anyone seriously believes that the tax code will be revised to eliminate tax loopholes irrespective of who becomes president is living in a dreamland. The one candidate who really wanted to create a more equitable society was Bernie Sanders and he subsequently lost and caved to become a Hillary supporter and his sole rationale is that she is the lesser of two evils.

Sanders is the person who lambasted her on so many issues ranging from an inherently corrupt and rigged system to waging foreign wars - and now he wants his supporters to back her!

I agree that there is no choice that will reform taxes. However, whether we like it or not, we have to choose between Trump and Clinton. One is as vain, egotistic, and narcissistic as a third world dictator, who can produce no evidence that he has ever done good for anybody except his family, believes all kinds of bizarre conspiracy theories, and can be goaded into tweeting idiocy at 3 AM. And one is just a run-of-the-mill politician. I know which one I'll pick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, charitable giving won't fund the military, investments in the future, healthcare for the bulk of seniors, etc.

No, but it is better than giving nothing. If you are determined to take advantage of tax loop holes, you should at the very least do this. I prefer to get rid of tax loop holes, but a real man, a grown man who is not a child, wouldn't be able to look themselves in the mirror if they didn't at least give 30% of their income to some sort of charity.

If he paid no taxes in 1995, and has probably paid no taxes for years, there's no incentive for him to make charitable contributions, because they are commonly used by wealthy people to lower their tax liability.

Politically, it's very odd to have a presidential candidate who pays no taxes. He wants to spend other people's (taxpayer's) money on building a wall, deporting immigrants, etc., yet not contribute a penny of his own money to the effort.

The stupidity of his supporters is breathtaking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, charitable giving won't fund the military, investments in the future, healthcare for the bulk of seniors, etc.

No, but it is better than giving nothing. If you are determined to take advantage of tax loop holes, you should at the very least do this. I prefer to get rid of tax loop holes, but a real man, a grown man who is not a child, wouldn't be able to look themselves in the mirror if they didn't at least give 30% of their income to some sort of charity.

If he paid no taxes in 1995, and has probably paid no taxes for years, there's no incentive for him to make charitable contributions, because they are commonly used by wealthy people to lower their tax liability.

Politically, it's very odd to have a presidential candidate who pays no taxes. He wants to spend other people's (taxpayer's) money on building a wall, deporting immigrants, etc., yet not contribute a penny of his own money to the effort.

The stupidity of his supporters is breathtaking.

You mean no incentive beyond caring for his country. And, indeed... do we want a president who has spent most of his 70 years not caring about his country?