TO THE MOM WHO RED SHIRTED HER SON AND COMPLAINS HE'S NOT CHALLENGED

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is 10 months older than the youngest kids in her class because she has a late-October birthday. It's been a struggle to keep her challenged.

Most of the boys I know who were red-shirted just weren't ready socially/emotionally for kindergarten at age barely-5. they were bright kids, and not small, but I can see why their parents made the choice they did.

So twenty years ago everyone was "socially/emotionally" ready for K and now suddenly we are raising a bunch of immature little kids? Nope. It's the parents who have their issues that are putting them on their poor little kids.

It's pretty well accepted that K has changed a lot in the last 20 years, so it follows that "readiness" would also change... But I guess some people pity children whose parents wait to send them in the hopes of making them healthier and happier...

what has changed? Serious question, people always say this but I think the opposite is true. K is so dumbed down now, what is challenging? I feel sorry for the almost 7 year olds that have to sit in a class reading K level reading books and using the calendar to count, checking the weather calendar...sitting in a circle like 5 year olds. Three kids have gone through and if anything it is EASIER than it has ever been. We did the private school route for one child so he can go "on time" Sept. birthday. Other two are summer bdays and never considered holding back. Even in their correct grade the challenge is very minimal. And PP, if you think holding back is going to make your kid happier and healthier you are a complete dumb ass.

You must have gone to some academic, gt kindergarten. I went to a half-day kindergarten where we sang songs, took a nap, played duck-duck-goose, made art, had lots of unstructured play and recess time, learned our letters and numbers and how to write them. Big emphasis on learning to listen, sit in a circle, and sharing. My kids by contrast, had full-day kindergarten with no naps, only one recess, and homework every night in kindergarten that included reading comprehension (answering questions about what they read) and math problems.

FWIW the only people I hear express regret about their decision with late summer birthdays are those who sent their children on time and think their kids really struggled esp. in middle school and beyond. My SIL and her husband have long regretted not keeping back their August son, who ended up having to take a break between high school and college.

Most five year olds have not napped in 2+ years. If they attended preschool, they should know how to listen, sit in a circle and share. They should know their letters and numbers via preschool. If not, the preschool and parents failed them. Homework is simple in K and 1st. I don't see the complaints in less you don't work with your child at home. Concerned about the lack of recess - put them in activities or take them to the playground before and after school. The school's job is to teach. Kids can play on their own time. My first grader is starting multiplication at home per his request. Sadly, the school will not teach him. If anything, it needs to go at a faster pace, not slower. And, if kids cannot handle basic K. then yes, they probably should be held back, or better, send them to a preschool that prepares them as clearly the play based is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Most five year olds have not napped in 2+ years. If they attended preschool, they should know how to listen, sit in a circle and share. They should know their letters and numbers via preschool. If not, the preschool and parents failed them. Homework is simple in K and 1st. I don't see the complaints in less you don't work with your child at home. Concerned about the lack of recess - put them in activities or take them to the playground before and after school. The school's job is to teach. Kids can play on their own time. My first grader is starting multiplication at home per his request. Sadly, the school will not teach him. If anything, it needs to go at a faster pace, not slower. And, if kids cannot handle basic K. then yes, they probably should be held back, or better, send them to a preschool that prepares them as clearly the play based is not.

Sure, all kids should know these things, but it doesn't mean they do them. Lack of recess is a problem, developmentally speaking. Not that many years ago, K was play based, and the children learned there. So while the school's job is to teach, you're a bit off with how you expect them to go about doing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And you don't see the difference between an applicant who is older because they have gained life experience and an applicant who is a senior in high school as a 19 year old because their parents didn't think they could hack it in kindergarten?

I don't think colleges will care that much. The fact that a kid is turning 19 senior year, most likely during second semester or in the summer after, is not going to bother colleges that much. There has always been some variation in the age kids are when they apply to college. A couple of decades ago, one of my freshman year roommates was from Hong Kong and turned 20 shortly after the start of our freshman year. My college didn't care that she was a year or two older than most of the other freshmen. She was paying full freight.

The kid who is a little older is likely to be more mature and will probably need less handholding and support. A more mature freshman is less likely to do dumb things and cause the college trouble and cost them money. It's a plus for the college to enroll kids who are a little older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should not be allowed absent proof of special needs such as a learning or social disorder. A cut off should be a cut off. Gaming the system is a disgrace.

how is it gaming the system again? I think you are projecting your own very unhealthy competitiveness.

I'm not that poster but really? It is obvious that some parents take advantage of a loophole designed to help kids with true needs so they can get their own kids ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It should not be allowed absent proof of special needs such as a learning or social disorder. A cut off should be a cut off. Gaming the system is a disgrace.

how is it gaming the system again? I think you are projecting your own very unhealthy competitiveness.

I'm not that poster but really? It is obvious that some parents take advantage of a loophole designed to help kids with true needs so they can get their own kids ahead.

No, it is not obvious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two boys, both late Spring birthdays. Both started school on time. both have classmates that are 17-18 months older (ie February - crazy, right?).

My anecdotal observation is that the kids who were redshirted had no apparent social or academic issues and these were basically cosmetic/athletic redshirts at the age of 4 (or 6).

Fast forward, the kids are in middle elementary now and you can see the sports difference and the social maturity difference in terms of interest in the opposite sex and general aggressiveness towards 'action'


In terms of academics, these kids are at worst in the middle of the grade (based on class placement like math that is either accelerated, regular or support) but it does change the dynamic considerably, regardless of whether it is kindergarten (no not Kindy, please) or 7th grade.

In total, as others have said, if your kid is an introvert, being an older introvert won't change anything. If your kid is on the small side, they might always be on the small side, and being older and on the small side won't change that.

Gaming the system is otherwise a fools game and not worth it and ultimately, it makes school a race to the bottom when you have 7 year olds kicking ass in kindergarten or 15 year olds doing great in 8th grade.

Does everyone remember those rare kids who used to skip grades and be super smart? My grandfathers both enrolled in college at 16. Now we have 16 year olds in 9th and 10th grade. It is a total crock and shameful.

Once again: NOBODY is redshirting for athletic advantage or simply because the kid is an introvert. And just like kids used to skip grades, they also used to be held back. I am sorry that the visibility of another child's struggles bothers you so much, but maybe stop and think about what kind of person you are.

They absolutely are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And you don't see the difference between an applicant who is older because they have gained life experience and an applicant who is a senior in high school as a 19 year old because their parents didn't think they could hack it in kindergarten?

I don't think colleges will care that much. The fact that a kid is turning 19 senior year, most likely during second semester or in the summer after, is not going to bother colleges that much. There has always been some variation in the age kids are when they apply to college. A couple of decades ago, one of my freshman year roommates was from Hong Kong and turned 20 shortly after the start of our freshman year. My college didn't care that she was a year or two older than most of the other freshmen. She was paying full freight.

The kid who is a little older is likely to be more mature and will probably need less handholding and support. A more mature freshman is less likely to do dumb things and cause the college trouble and cost them money. It's a plus for the college to enroll kids who are a little older.

We have college advisors at my private school and the first thing they said to my daughter (who doesn't turn 18 until a month after college starts) is you will be well received. "Your course load and your age are very positive. Having 18 and 19yr old touring and applying to colleges does not look good."

[Anonymous]

I agree that it is gaming the system, but I disagree that the kids are getting a leg up. Compare the 13 year old 8th grader with the 15 year old 8th grader. Assuming they are both getting the same grades and same test scores, who has the better upside?

I think it is shameful parents do this to their kids. I would hate to be that older 8th grader wondering why my parents held me back and have me playing with kids when I am a young adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is 10 months older than the youngest kids in her class because she has a late-October birthday. It's been a struggle to keep her challenged.

Most of the boys I know who were red-shirted just weren't ready socially/emotionally for kindergarten at age barely-5. they were bright kids, and not small, but I can see why their parents made the choice they did.

So twenty years ago everyone was "socially/emotionally" ready for K and now suddenly we are raising a bunch of immature little kids? Nope. It's the parents who have their issues that are putting them on their poor little kids.

It's pretty well accepted that K has changed a lot in the last 20 years, so it follows that "readiness" would also change... But I guess some people pity children whose parents wait to send them in the hopes of making them healthier and happier...

what has changed? Serious question, people always say this but I think the opposite is true. K is so dumbed down now, what is challenging? I feel sorry for the almost 7 year olds that have to sit in a class reading K level reading books and using the calendar to count, checking the weather calendar...sitting in a circle like 5 year olds. Three kids have gone through and if anything it is EASIER than it has ever been. We did the private school route for one child so he can go "on time" Sept. birthday. Other two are summer bdays and never considered holding back. Even in their correct grade the challenge is very minimal. And PP, if you think holding back is going to make your kid happier and healthier you are a complete dumb ass.

You must have gone to some academic, gt kindergarten. I went to a half-day kindergarten where we sang songs, took a nap, played duck-duck-goose, made art, had lots of unstructured play and recess time, learned our letters and numbers and how to write them. Big emphasis on learning to listen, sit in a circle, and sharing. My kids by contrast, had full-day kindergarten with no naps, only one recess, and homework every night in kindergarten that included reading comprehension (answering questions about what they read) and math problems.

FWIW the only people I hear express regret about their decision with late summer birthdays are those who sent their children on time and think their kids really struggled esp. in middle school and beyond. My SIL and her husband have long regretted not keeping back their August son, who ended up having to take a break between high school and college.

Most five year olds have not napped in 2+ years. If they attended preschool, they should know how to listen, sit in a circle and share. They should know their letters and numbers via preschool. If not, the preschool and parents failed them. Homework is simple in K and 1st. I don't see the complaints in less you don't work with your child at home. Concerned about the lack of recess - put them in activities or take them to the playground before and after school. The school's job is to teach. Kids can play on their own time. My first grader is starting multiplication at home per his request. Sadly, the school will not teach him. I[b]f anything, it needs to go at a faster pace, not slower. And, if kids cannot handle basic K. then yes, they probably should be held back, or better, send them to a preschool that prepares them as clearly the play based is not[/b].

This goes against all recent research about early learning. Check out the Finnish school system. 93% graduation rate from high school, and 100% literacy rate. And their kindergartens are completely play based. “Play is a very efficient way of learning for children,” [said a Finnish kindergarten teacher] “And we can use it in a way that children will learn with joy.” Which means they don't push reading at this stage.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/10/the-joyful-illiterate-kindergartners-of-finland/408325/

http://stuff4educators.com/index.php?p=1_77_Finland-World-s-Best-Readers

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/why-are-finlands-schools-successful-49859555/?no-ist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is 10 months older than the youngest kids in her class because she has a late-October birthday. It's been a struggle to keep her challenged.

Most of the boys I know who were red-shirted just weren't ready socially/emotionally for kindergarten at age barely-5. they were bright kids, and not small, but I can see why their parents made the choice they did.

So twenty years ago everyone was "socially/emotionally" ready for K and now suddenly we are raising a bunch of immature little kids? Nope. It's the parents who have their issues that are putting them on their poor little kids.

It's pretty well accepted that K has changed a lot in the last 20 years, so it follows that "readiness" would also change... But I guess some people pity children whose parents wait to send them in the hopes of making them healthier and happier...

what has changed? Serious question, people always say this but I think the opposite is true. K is so dumbed down now, what is challenging? I feel sorry for the almost 7 year olds that have to sit in a class reading K level reading books and using the calendar to count, checking the weather calendar...sitting in a circle like 5 year olds. Three kids have gone through and if anything it is EASIER than it has ever been. We did the private school route for one child so he can go "on time" Sept. birthday. Other two are summer bdays and never considered holding back. Even in their correct grade the challenge is very minimal. And PP, if you think holding back is going to make your kid happier and healthier you are a complete dumb ass.

You must have gone to some academic, gt kindergarten. I went to a half-day kindergarten where we sang songs, took a nap, played duck-duck-goose, made art, had lots of unstructured play and recess time, learned our letters and numbers and how to write them. Big emphasis on learning to listen, sit in a circle, and sharing. My kids by contrast, had full-day kindergarten with no naps, only one recess, and homework every night in kindergarten that included reading comprehension (answering questions about what they read) and math problems.

FWIW the only people I hear express regret about their decision with late summer birthdays are those who sent their children on time and think their kids really struggled esp. in middle school and beyond. My SIL and her husband have long regretted not keeping back their August son, who ended up having to take a break between high school and college.

Most five year olds have not napped in 2+ years. If they attended preschool, they should know how to listen, sit in a circle and share. They should know their letters and numbers via preschool. If not, the preschool and parents failed them. Homework is simple in K and 1st. I don't see the complaints in less you don't work with your child at home. Concerned about the lack of recess - put them in activities or take them to the playground before and after school. The school's job is to teach. Kids can play on their own time. My first grader is starting multiplication at home per his request. Sadly, the school will not teach him. I[b]f anything, it needs to go at a faster pace, not slower. And, if kids cannot handle basic K. then yes, they probably should be held back, or better, send them to a preschool that prepares them as clearly the play based is not[/b].

This goes against all recent research about early learning. Check out the Finnish school system. 93% graduation rate from high school, and 100% literacy rate. And their kindergartens are completely play based. “Play is a very efficient way of learning for children,” [said a Finnish kindergarten teacher] “And we can use it in a way that children will learn with joy.” Which means they don't push reading at this stage.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/10/the-joyful-illiterate-kindergartners-of-finland/408325/

http://stuff4educators.com/index.php?p=1_77_Finland-World-s-Best-Readers

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/why-are-finlands-schools-successful-49859555/?no-ist

We do not live in Finnish and they have a very different culture and environment than we do. Look at other countries who do push their kids... they are far passing us and taking our jobs. I never pushed my child to read. He told me one day he was reading to us and he did. He surprised us with knowing how to read. He asked to do multiplication and higher level math. Why on earth would I not encourage him. If parents need to hold their kids back for K., then something is wrong and either the parents or preschool failed them by not getting them early intervention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And you don't see the difference between an applicant who is older because they have gained life experience and an applicant who is a senior in high school as a 19 year old because their parents didn't think they could hack it in kindergarten?

I don't think colleges will care that much. The fact that a kid is turning 19 senior year, most likely during second semester or in the summer after, is not going to bother colleges that much. There has always been some variation in the age kids are when they apply to college. A couple of decades ago, one of my freshman year roommates was from Hong Kong and turned 20 shortly after the start of our freshman year. My college didn't care that she was a year or two older than most of the other freshmen. She was paying full freight.

The kid who is a little older is likely to be more mature and will probably need less handholding and support. A more mature freshman is less likely to do dumb things and cause the college trouble and cost them money. It's a plus for the college to enroll kids who are a little older.

Many of us went to college 17/18 without doing dumb things or costing money... our parents prepared us for college and taught us how to care for ourselves. They also nurtured us so we knew we could call when we need help. I knew I had 4 years at college then graduate school. I knew how much I could spend and if I needed something high cost beyond books, I'd call and ask. You start teaching this when your kids are young.

[Anonymous]

Agree with OP!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
This goes against all recent research about early learning. Check out the Finnish school system. 93% graduation rate from high school, and 100% literacy rate. And their kindergartens are completely play based. “Play is a very efficient way of learning for children,” [said a Finnish kindergarten teacher] “And we can use it in a way that children will learn with joy.” Which means they don't push reading at this stage.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/10/the-joyful-illiterate-kindergartners-of-finland/408325/

http://stuff4educators.com/index.php?p=1_77_Finland-World-s-Best-Readers

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/why-are-finlands-schools-successful-49859555/?no-ist

I wish people would stop comparing us to Finland. Did it ever occur to you that maybe Finnish children do much better than American children because they have a *much* better social welfare program than we do? And that they don't have as much ESOL learners, or kids who live in poverty compared to the US? And also, the system itself in Finland attracts only the highest caliber of teachers, and they view teaching as a prized profession, unlike here where people regularly denigrate teachers and an education degree is one of the easiest degrees to get. In Finland, teachers must complete a 5 yr masters program, and competition to get into these programs are quite fierce.

I read an article about the Finnish school system. There was this one immigrant kid who was failing in school. The teachers, admin, para-educators, etc.. rallied around this kid to help him. They have the resources to do this. A lot of school districts in the US don't even have enough resources to have music or PE.

Twenty percent of U.S. students speak a language other than English at home. Over 400 different language are spoken by students in U.S. schools.

Most English language learners(ELLs) go to the poorest schools and live in abject poverty. Lawmakers are ignoring poverty as one of the reasons for the achievement gap.

Finland:

All students receive free lunch and access to health care, mental health services and guidance counselors. So all students are more likely to be well fed and healthy both mentally and physically and thus more prepared to learn.

there are no private schools in Finland. Every school from preschool to university is public. So all Finnish citizens support the public school system, rather than draining money, energy and resources on alternative school systems. The gap between the top students and bottom students in Finland is the smallest in the world.

So, if the US could change its entire society and culture to mimic Finland's, I'm thinking our education system would be vastly different.

[Anonymous]

They may have less ESOL learners, but do they have any FSOL learners?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And you don't see the difference between an applicant who is older because they have gained life experience and an applicant who is a senior in high school as a 19 year old because their parents didn't think they could hack it in kindergarten?

I don't think colleges will care that much. The fact that a kid is turning 19 senior year, most likely during second semester or in the summer after, is not going to bother colleges that much. There has always been some variation in the age kids are when they apply to college. A couple of decades ago, one of my freshman year roommates was from Hong Kong and turned 20 shortly after the start of our freshman year. My college didn't care that she was a year or two older than most of the other freshmen. She was paying full freight.

The kid who is a little older is likely to be more mature and will probably need less handholding and support. A more mature freshman is less likely to do dumb things and cause the college trouble and cost them money. It's a plus for the college to enroll kids who are a little older.

Many of us went to college 17/18 without doing dumb things or costing money... our parents prepared us for college and taught us how to care for ourselves. They also nurtured us so we knew we could call when we need help. I knew I had 4 years at college then graduate school. I knew how much I could spend and if I needed something high cost beyond books, I'd call and ask. You start teaching this when your kids are young.

Of course some kids go to college earlier and do fine, but some kids will do better with a little more maturity. People are all different and what works for one may not work for another. Colleges recognize that in their applicants and accept individuals. Applicants come from all over the US and the rest of the world. Admissions officials don't have time to check on every school system's entry age rules.