Lemonade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you guys would be fine if Taylor Swift sang "You better call Shaneequa with the afro" and all the white women retorted "this is not about you or your experience, you have no place to comment"?

I doubt that. You'd be screaming it was racist and how dare she.... and all of your loud voices would have plenty to say.

Please don't forget this album is not Beyonce's experience as a black woman. She grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood, both parents had excellent jobs, she had the best of everything, went to private school, and her dad quit his job to manage her budding career after she went to a school for the performing arts. I doubt SHE knows what it's like to be a black woman. Some other poetic visionary genius whittled this together and is using Bey as their vehicle.

Totally agree with everything the previous poster said about enjoying the album while it is not necessarily about "you".

Wow, that's shockingly ignorant. Since when does class privilege erase Blackness? I'm upper middle class, my parents had excellent jobs, and I went to private school. That doesn't make me any less Black.

You're an outsider. You're seriously overstepping your boundaries by trying to define Beyoncés Blackness.

Nobody's "erasing Blackness". That's not even possible, because "Blackness" isn't just one thing, or one experience. PP is pointing out, somewhat ham-handedly, that the stereotypical idea of "blackness" and Beyonce's inarguably privileged upbringing are at odds. That doesn't make Beyonce any less black (there's a whole spectrum of "black"), but intersectionality matters. Beyonce's class privilege alters, somewhat radically, her experience of "blackness". Rich, privileged people don't know life the way poor, underprivileged people in underserved communities do.

When rich, privileged people start singing about/to the stereotype of blackness outside their experience, we should be aware of it. Can she, as an artist, channel the experience(s) of others, and represent things outside her own personal culture and upbringing? Sure. Are those things authentically hers? No. Do the people to whom those things authentically belong have a right, and responsibility, to shed some light on how she has appropriated their culture/experience for profit? Yes. That is an actual thing that #notjustwhitepeople do.

There's more to the Black experience than the struggle. It's racist to say that Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman because she doesn't measure up to some negative stereotype - That Black women are "struggling, poor, unprivileged, disrespected, discriminated against [and] suffering".

Is "racist" your response to everything you don't like? Stating s fact doesn't make something racist and PP is speaking to one area of Beyoncé's experience - her upbringing and privilege. Stop crying racist everytime someone presents you with a logical argument or statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is no Whitney but she's definitely way better than Madonna. Come on.

https://youtu.be/iR6W1pKnQhk

+1 Far better than Madonna!!

Diana Ross, & Mariah out sing Bey. Numerous women do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is no Whitney but she's definitely way better than Madonna. Come on.

https://youtu.be/iR6W1pKnQhk

+1 Far better than Madonna!!

Diana Ross, & Mariah out sing Bey. Numerous women do.

PP here and also 8:20. I agree about Mariah! For me, Diana's voice is a little soft and breathy, but I always loved Baby Love!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you guys would be fine if Taylor Swift sang "You better call Shaneequa with the afro" and all the white women retorted "this is not about you or your experience, you have no place to comment"?

I doubt that. You'd be screaming it was racist and how dare she.... and all of your loud voices would have plenty to say.

Please don't forget this album is not Beyonce's experience as a black woman. She grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood, both parents had excellent jobs, she had the best of everything, went to private school, and her dad quit his job to manage her budding career after she went to a school for the performing arts. I doubt SHE knows what it's like to be a black woman. Some other poetic visionary genius whittled this together and is using Bey as their vehicle.

Totally agree with everything the previous poster said about enjoying the album while it is not necessarily about "you".

Wow, that's shockingly ignorant. Since when does class privilege erase Blackness? I'm upper middle class, my parents had excellent jobs, and I went to private school. That doesn't make me any less Black.

You're an outsider. You're seriously overstepping your boundaries by trying to define Beyoncés Blackness.

Nobody's "erasing Blackness". That's not even possible, because "Blackness" isn't just one thing, or one experience. PP is pointing out, somewhat ham-handedly, that the stereotypical idea of "blackness" and Beyonce's inarguably privileged upbringing are at odds. That doesn't make Beyonce any less black (there's a whole spectrum of "black"), but intersectionality matters. Beyonce's class privilege alters, somewhat radically, her experience of "blackness". Rich, privileged people don't know life the way poor, underprivileged people in underserved communities do.

When rich, privileged people start singing about/to the stereotype of blackness outside their experience, we should be aware of it. Can she, as an artist, channel the experience(s) of others, and represent things outside her own personal culture and upbringing? Sure. Are those things authentically hers? No. Do the people to whom those things authentically belong have a right, and responsibility, to shed some light on how she has appropriated their culture/experience for profit? Yes. That is an actual thing that #notjustwhitepeople do.

There's more to the Black experience than the struggle. It's racist to say that Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman because she doesn't measure up to some negative stereotype - That Black women are "struggling, poor, unprivileged, disrespected, discriminated against [and] suffering".

Is "racist" your response to everything you don't like? Stating s fact doesn't make something racist and PP is speaking to one area of Beyoncé's experience - her upbringing and privilege. Stop crying racist everytime someone presents you with a logical argument or statement.

No, I'm simply pointing out that what pp said (Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman bc she doesn't meet their negative stereotypes) was racist. Do you get defensive and accuse PoC of playing the race card every time someone points out racism? Maybe you're the one with the problem.

It's really common for white people to react the way you just did when they're called out for being racist. The scholarly term for it is white fragility.


http://www.alternet.org/culture/why-white-people-freak-out-when-theyre-called-out-about-race

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Beyoncé doesn't have a great voice...she has great computer technology and mixers. Listen to the difference in her "voice" from her early years and recent stuff...that's technology.

She is a great dancer. She's like Madonna in that regard: so-so voice, but a great performer.

She can't play an instrument, so she really isn't a musician. She's a performer.

No, her early stuff sounds different because she was practically a child back then. It's been almost 20 years since Destiny's Child released their first album.

I've seen Beyoncé sing acapella live (back in the late 90s when she opened up for Jon B), and the girl can blow.

[Anonymous]

I am not a huge beyonce fan or anything but she sounds amazing here. She sounds exactly like the recorded version of this song. I agree with the poster who said her acapella sounds great!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=261&v=8-NZB-riaQo

[Anonymous]

^^ The singing starts at 2:55.

[Anonymous]

She's boring. And the music sucks.

And put some damn pants on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is no Whitney but she's definitely way better than Madonna. Come on.

https://youtu.be/iR6W1pKnQhk

Thanks for posting! She's no Whitney (possibly my favorite female singer ever, except for Etta James), and I much prefer Tina Turner to Beyonce; but Beyonce is certainly talented, and her performances and strength do remind me of Tina.

Where's Janet Jackson in this discussion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is no Whitney but she's definitely way better than Madonna. Come on.

https://youtu.be/iR6W1pKnQhk

Thanks for posting! She's no Whitney (possibly my favorite female singer ever, except for Etta James), and I much prefer Tina Turner to Beyonce; but Beyonce is certainly talented, and her performances and strength do remind me of Tina.

Where's Janet Jackson in this discussion?

Well JJ can't dance or sing. Don't get me wrong, I was obsessed with her when I was younger, but she just can't. Just like Madonna can't sing and can only marginally dance. Beyonce can do both better than any other performer living or dead. None of them are great musicians, however.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is no Whitney but she's definitely way better than Madonna. Come on.

https://youtu.be/iR6W1pKnQhk

Thanks for posting! She's no Whitney (possibly my favorite female singer ever, except for Etta James), and I much prefer Tina Turner to Beyonce; but Beyonce is certainly talented, and her performances and strength do remind me of Tina.

Where's Janet Jackson in this discussion?

Well JJ can't dance or sing. Don't get me wrong, I was obsessed with her when I was younger, but she just can't. Just like Madonna can't sing and can only marginally dance. Beyonce can do both better than any other performer living or dead. None of them are great musicians, however.

You couldn't have been obsessed with this Janet slande! Not to derail the lemonade discussion further but it's common knowledge that Janet cannot sing but dances her ass off. Classic Janet: http://youtu.be/Q-gu1KETjVY

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is no Whitney but she's definitely way better than Madonna. Come on.

https://youtu.be/iR6W1pKnQhk

Thanks for posting! She's no Whitney (possibly my favorite female singer ever, except for Etta James), and I much prefer Tina Turner to Beyonce; but Beyonce is certainly talented, and her performances and strength do remind me of Tina.

Where's Janet Jackson in this discussion?

Well JJ can't dance or sing. Don't get me wrong, I was obsessed with her when I was younger, but she just can't. Just like Madonna can't sing and can only marginally dance. Beyonce can do both better than any other performer living or dead. None of them are great musicians, however.

You couldn't have been obsessed with this Janet slande! Not to derail the lemonade discussion further but it's common knowledge that Janet cannot sing but dances her ass off. Classic Janet: http://youtu.be/Q-gu1KETjVY

Agree! Janet can dance her ass off. Her singing ability is questionable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you guys would be fine if Taylor Swift sang "You better call Shaneequa with the afro" and all the white women retorted "this is not about you or your experience, you have no place to comment"?

I doubt that. You'd be screaming it was racist and how dare she.... and all of your loud voices would have plenty to say.

Please don't forget this album is not Beyonce's experience as a black woman. She grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood, both parents had excellent jobs, she had the best of everything, went to private school, and her dad quit his job to manage her budding career after she went to a school for the performing arts. I doubt SHE knows what it's like to be a black woman. Some other poetic visionary genius whittled this together and is using Bey as their vehicle.

Totally agree with everything the previous poster said about enjoying the album while it is not necessarily about "you".

Wow, that link is very informative.

Wow, that's shockingly ignorant. Since when does class privilege erase Blackness? I'm upper middle class, my parents had excellent jobs, and I went to private school. That doesn't make me any less Black.

You're an outsider. You're seriously overstepping your boundaries by trying to define Beyoncés Blackness.

Nobody's "erasing Blackness". That's not even possible, because "Blackness" isn't just one thing, or one experience. PP is pointing out, somewhat ham-handedly, that the stereotypical idea of "blackness" and Beyonce's inarguably privileged upbringing are at odds. That doesn't make Beyonce any less black (there's a whole spectrum of "black"), but intersectionality matters. Beyonce's class privilege alters, somewhat radically, her experience of "blackness". Rich, privileged people don't know life the way poor, underprivileged people in underserved communities do.

When rich, privileged people start singing about/to the stereotype of blackness outside their experience, we should be aware of it. Can she, as an artist, channel the experience(s) of others, and represent things outside her own personal culture and upbringing? Sure. Are those things authentically hers? No. Do the people to whom those things authentically belong have a right, and responsibility, to shed some light on how she has appropriated their culture/experience for profit? Yes. That is an actual thing that #notjustwhitepeople do.

There's more to the Black experience than the struggle. It's racist to say that Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman because she doesn't measure up to some negative stereotype - That Black women are "struggling, poor, unprivileged, disrespected, discriminated against [and] suffering".

Is "racist" your response to everything you don't like? Stating s fact doesn't make something racist and PP is speaking to one area of Beyoncé's experience - her upbringing and privilege. Stop crying racist everytime someone presents you with a logical argument or statement.

No, I'm simply pointing out that what pp said (Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman bc she doesn't meet their negative stereotypes) was racist. Do you get defensive and accuse PoC of playing the race card every time someone points out racism? Maybe you're the one with the problem.

It's really common for white people to react the way you just did when they're called out for being racist. The scholarly term for it is white fragility.


http://www.alternet.org/culture/why-white-people-freak-out-when-theyre-called-out-about-race

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you guys would be fine if Taylor Swift sang "You better call Shaneequa with the afro" and all the white women retorted "this is not about you or your experience, you have no place to comment"?

I doubt that. You'd be screaming it was racist and how dare she.... and all of your loud voices would have plenty to say.

Please don't forget this album is not Beyonce's experience as a black woman. She grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood, both parents had excellent jobs, she had the best of everything, went to private school, and her dad quit his job to manage her budding career after she went to a school for the performing arts. I doubt SHE knows what it's like to be a black woman. Some other poetic visionary genius whittled this together and is using Bey as their vehicle.

Totally agree with everything the previous poster said about enjoying the album while it is not necessarily about "you".

Wow, that link is very informative.

Wow, that's shockingly ignorant. Since when does class privilege erase Blackness? I'm upper middle class, my parents had excellent jobs, and I went to private school. That doesn't make me any less Black.

You're an outsider. You're seriously overstepping your boundaries by trying to define Beyoncés Blackness.

Nobody's "erasing Blackness". That's not even possible, because "Blackness" isn't just one thing, or one experience. PP is pointing out, somewhat ham-handedly, that the stereotypical idea of "blackness" and Beyonce's inarguably privileged upbringing are at odds. That doesn't make Beyonce any less black (there's a whole spectrum of "black"), but intersectionality matters. Beyonce's class privilege alters, somewhat radically, her experience of "blackness". Rich, privileged people don't know life the way poor, underprivileged people in underserved communities do.

When rich, privileged people start singing about/to the stereotype of blackness outside their experience, we should be aware of it. Can she, as an artist, channel the experience(s) of others, and represent things outside her own personal culture and upbringing? Sure. Are those things authentically hers? No. Do the people to whom those things authentically belong have a right, and responsibility, to shed some light on how she has appropriated their culture/experience for profit? Yes. That is an actual thing that #notjustwhitepeople do.

There's more to the Black experience than the struggle. It's racist to say that Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman because she doesn't measure up to some negative stereotype - That Black women are "struggling, poor, unprivileged, disrespected, discriminated against [and] suffering".

Is "racist" your response to everything you don't like? Stating s fact doesn't make something racist and PP is speaking to one area of Beyoncé's experience - her upbringing and privilege. Stop crying racist everytime someone presents you with a logical argument or statement.

No, I'm simply pointing out that what pp said (Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman bc she doesn't meet their negative stereotypes) was racist. Do you get defensive and accuse PoC of playing the race card every time someone points out racism? Maybe you're the one with the problem.

It's really common for white people to react the way you just did when they're called out for being racist. The scholarly term for it is white fragility.


http://www.alternet.org/culture/why-white-people-freak-out-when-theyre-called-out-about-race

Yawn. And everything a POC doesn't like is racist. Your argument is invalid. It's really reaching to call every opinion or statement that disagrees with you racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you guys would be fine if Taylor Swift sang "You better call Shaneequa with the afro" and all the white women retorted "this is not about you or your experience, you have no place to comment"?

I doubt that. You'd be screaming it was racist and how dare she.... and all of your loud voices would have plenty to say.

Please don't forget this album is not Beyonce's experience as a black woman. She grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood, both parents had excellent jobs, she had the best of everything, went to private school, and her dad quit his job to manage her budding career after she went to a school for the performing arts. I doubt SHE knows what it's like to be a black woman. Some other poetic visionary genius whittled this together and is using Bey as their vehicle.

Totally agree with everything the previous poster said about enjoying the album while it is not necessarily about "you".

Wow, that link is very informative.

Wow, that's shockingly ignorant. Since when does class privilege erase Blackness? I'm upper middle class, my parents had excellent jobs, and I went to private school. That doesn't make me any less Black.

You're an outsider. You're seriously overstepping your boundaries by trying to define Beyoncés Blackness.

Nobody's "erasing Blackness". That's not even possible, because "Blackness" isn't just one thing, or one experience. PP is pointing out, somewhat ham-handedly, that the stereotypical idea of "blackness" and Beyonce's inarguably privileged upbringing are at odds. That doesn't make Beyonce any less black (there's a whole spectrum of "black"), but intersectionality matters. Beyonce's class privilege alters, somewhat radically, her experience of "blackness". Rich, privileged people don't know life the way poor, underprivileged people in underserved communities do.

When rich, privileged people start singing about/to the stereotype of blackness outside their experience, we should be aware of it. Can she, as an artist, channel the experience(s) of others, and represent things outside her own personal culture and upbringing? Sure. Are those things authentically hers? No. Do the people to whom those things authentically belong have a right, and responsibility, to shed some light on how she has appropriated their culture/experience for profit? Yes. That is an actual thing that #notjustwhitepeople do.

There's more to the Black experience than the struggle. It's racist to say that Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman because she doesn't measure up to some negative stereotype - That Black women are "struggling, poor, unprivileged, disrespected, discriminated against [and] suffering".

Is "racist" your response to everything you don't like? Stating s fact doesn't make something racist and PP is speaking to one area of Beyoncé's experience - her upbringing and privilege. Stop crying racist everytime someone presents you with a logical argument or statement.

No, I'm simply pointing out that what pp said (Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman bc she doesn't meet their negative stereotypes) was racist. Do you get defensive and accuse PoC of playing the race card every time someone points out racism? Maybe you're the one with the problem.

It's really common for white people to react the way you just did when they're called out for being racist. The scholarly term for it is white fragility.


http://www.alternet.org/culture/why-white-people-freak-out-when-theyre-called-out-about-race

Yawn. And everything a POC doesn't like is racist. Your argument is invalid. It's really reaching to call every opinion or statement that disagrees with you racist.

You're dismissive and her argument is valid. PP had said "Stop crying racist everytime someone presents you with a logical argument or statement." Which may be fine if she knew the poster in real life to repeatedly cry "racist", but since she doesn't, she applied to her post the thinking that every time a POC complains about racism she's playing the race card.