Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah so someone needs to do a longterm study on the actual benefits of AAP

What is the end goal here. Paying for a couple fewer credits in college lol

ON tracking in general academic studies are split on when is the best time to start and what the actual benefits are

Most people agree that by middle school you should be separating out children for at least part of the day

At the same time there are real benefits for people at the bottom middle and top if you don't separate out students (Google it)

Of course this requires a teacher who actually knows what they are doing, and can teach concepts at multiple levels

From all the literature I have seen tracking should occur for math and reading from an early age

but outside of these subjects its best for at least the elementary level to have kids together for other subjects

And finally again, what is the real point of AAP. Sorry kid you aren't going to Harvard working at McKenzie because you didn't have AAP in elementary school lol.

There is very little academic benefit if any for the kids at the top when you throw everyone together in one class.

A couple quick things off the top of my head

1. The biggest one. When you go out in the real world and have a job and you are one of the "top people" what does that entail usually.... management and what is that.... learning how to deal with people who are "lower than you" by helping them succeed and removing barriers.... humm sounds alot like skills someone could learn in a mixed classroom environment

2. True mastery occurs when you can teach concepts to someone else

3. Google there are some interesting studies out there on this

4. Have a great day

Of the top my head:

1. Top colleges are usually filled with top students.

2. Google about mixing classes and the negative impact on top students. Very little, if any, benefit.

3. Children aren't paid to teach concepts to others their age; that's the teachers job and they are paid to do such.

4. Have an awesome day!

You must be a pleasure to live with. Selfish much. I feel sorry for your child

[Anonymous]

Selfish? No! Realistic? Yes! A pleasure? Most definitely!

[Anonymous]

A couple quick things off the top of my head

1. The biggest one. When you go out in the real world and have a job and you are one of the "top people" what does that entail usually.... management and what is that.... learning how to deal with people who are "lower than you" by helping them succeed and removing barriers.... humm sounds alot like skills someone could learn in a mixed classroom environment

2. True mastery occurs when you can teach concepts to someone else

3. Google there are some interesting studies out there on this

4. Have a great day

Let me see if I understand this:

1. The biggest one. You wish to do away with AAP, Honors, AP, IB or any other program that separates students by aptitude because the underling management skills to be learned by some in a mixed classroom are at least as important as math, science, language arts, etc., which might be learned by all at their own speed in separate classrooms.

2. Yet you wish to still somehow identify bright students so that you can have them teach other students. That seems like a disservice to all involved.

3. Not all interesting studies agree with you. Separating students by ability can be a good idea in elementary school. By middle school kids in FCPS can self-track into honors if they wish, thus avoiding perils of tracking. See: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/10/education/grouping-students-by-ability-regains-favor-with-educators.html?_r=0

4. I'll try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You've missed the entire point, which is that AAP is not a gifted program. The curriculum is simply advanced by one year - something most kids could certainly do if given the opportunity. PP even suggested starting this in the 1st grade, so that ALL kids are ahead.

Certainly, not all kids are going to reach the same heights. But that goes for kids within AAP as well. Some kids are going to excel above and beyond any others - and that has nothing to do with being in AAP.

I can tell your mind is made up. But for anyone else listening, the AAP curriculum is not simply the same curriculum advanced by one year. At least not from our experience. If that's all there was to it, there would not be so many people howling about not being part of it. This is just the kind of misinformed belief one would expect to follow the constant hater drumbeat that AAP is "not a gifted program."

Well, from our experience, this is exactly what AAP is. The curriculum was no more challenging than that of the next grade up. I know that AAP parents love to tell themselves, their kids, and anyone who will listen that AAP is a gifted program, but it ceased being that over a decade ago when FCPS decided to include far more kids than they used to. Nothing wrong with an advanced curriculum, but it's very misleading to call it a "gifted" curriculum. Because it's simply advanced, many of us are arguing that it should be open to any child capable of doing the work. No need for a faux-gifted label in the first place.

Well then what the heck meets your definition of a "Gifted Program"? I don't live in Fairfax County, but from what I've read the AAP program blows doors on any gifted programs I've heard of anywhere. My 4th grade daughter's gifted program consists of her being bused to another school one day a week for enrichment activities. This is typical of every school district I've heard of except Fairfax County. These activities are great, but the rest of the time she is still
learning the exact same curriculum and doing the exact same assignments as everyone else. I would much rather trade her one day a week of enrichment activities for a full time program where she is taught all academic subject a grade level up.

Your DD is not in a gifted program; what she receives is advanced academic "pull out" services. I think what people are confusing is a "gifted child" with the AAP program. Yes, there are many gifted children in the AAP program; however, many kids in that program are capable of doing way more challenging academics than what AAP provides. There in lies the rub...the AAP curriculum is just slightly advanced; however, the testing to get in is so over-the-top compared to the actual benefit of the actual program for most gifted kids. What parents are saying is that don't say AAP is a gifted program when it is not...be honest and say what it actually is an advanced academic program (AAP)...and for those parents who have gifted kids that actually score off the chart...you would be well served to actually find resources outside the FCPS to address your kids gifted needs. Otherwise, admission to AAP should be parent referral...

We don't live in Fairfax County. Her pull out program is what the gifted program consists of in our area. My point s that the Fairfax County AAP program is a far more comprehensive program than what I have heard of anywhere else. I'm curious as to what the poster who insists that AAP is not a real gifted program, thinks a Gifted program should be?

Take a look at the Schilling School for Gifted Children. The Lower School curriculum 1.5 - 2 years above grade level with individualized learning options. The program meets the kids where they are and allows them to go as far above grade level as appropriate. A program of this kind would be unsupportable by a public school system. So, the compromise is AAP. FCPS made a financial decision at some point to go with the AAP model...nothing wrong with that but they didn't adjust the paradigm that AAP could be afforded to an even wider group of students.

But why single out AAP then? No public school district has a gifted program that is anywhere close to your example. By saying "AAP is not a real gifted program", the implication is that it is common for other school districts to offer "real" gifted programs. Fairfax County comes closer to this than any public school system I've seen.

I am implying the opposite; that it is not common for other school districts to offer "real" gifted programs because the cost of doing so is prohibitive. Also, the numbers of gifted kids in a typical school district is generally low which also would make it difficult to justify a "real" gifted program. FCPS has a great AAP program...my point is that given the level of instruction...it should be open to a wider group of kids across the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You've missed the entire point, which is that AAP is not a gifted program. The curriculum is simply advanced by one year - something most kids could certainly do if given the opportunity. PP even suggested starting this in the 1st grade, so that ALL kids are ahead.

Certainly, not all kids are going to reach the same heights. But that goes for kids within AAP as well. Some kids are going to excel above and beyond any others - and that has nothing to do with being in AAP.

I can tell your mind is made up. But for anyone else listening, the AAP curriculum is not simply the same curriculum advanced by one year. At least not from our experience. If that's all there was to it, there would not be so many people howling about not being part of it. This is just the kind of misinformed belief one would expect to follow the constant hater drumbeat that AAP is "not a gifted program."

Well, from our experience, this is exactly what AAP is. The curriculum was no more challenging than that of the next grade up. I know that AAP parents love to tell themselves, their kids, and anyone who will listen that AAP is a gifted program, but it ceased being that over a decade ago when FCPS decided to include far more kids than they used to. Nothing wrong with an advanced curriculum, but it's very misleading to call it a "gifted" curriculum. Because it's simply advanced, many of us are arguing that it should be open to any child capable of doing the work. No need for a faux-gifted label in the first place.

Well then what the heck meets your definition of a "Gifted Program"? I don't live in Fairfax County, but from what I've read the AAP program blows doors on any gifted programs I've heard of anywhere. My 4th grade daughter's gifted program consists of her being bused to another school one day a week for enrichment activities. This is typical of every school district I've heard of except Fairfax County. These activities are great, but the rest of the time she is still
learning the exact same curriculum and doing the exact same assignments as everyone else. I would much rather trade her one day a week of enrichment activities for a full time program where she is taught all academic subject a grade level up.

Your DD is not in a gifted program; what she receives is advanced academic "pull out" services. I think what people are confusing is a "gifted child" with the AAP program. Yes, there are many gifted children in the AAP program; however, many kids in that program are capable of doing way more challenging academics than what AAP provides. There in lies the rub...the AAP curriculum is just slightly advanced; however, the testing to get in is so over-the-top compared to the actual benefit of the actual program for most gifted kids. What parents are saying is that don't say AAP is a gifted program when it is not...be honest and say what it actually is an advanced academic program (AAP)...and for those parents who have gifted kids that actually score off the chart...you would be well served to actually find resources outside the FCPS to address your kids gifted needs. Otherwise, admission to AAP should be parent referral...

We don't live in Fairfax County. Her pull out program is what the gifted program consists of in our area. My point s that the Fairfax County AAP program is a far more comprehensive program than what I have heard of anywhere else. I'm curious as to what the poster who insists that AAP is not a real gifted program, thinks a Gifted program should be?

Take a look at the Schilling School for Gifted Children. The Lower School curriculum 1.5 - 2 years above grade level with individualized learning options. The program meets the kids where they are and allows them to go as far above grade level as appropriate. A program of this kind would be unsupportable by a public school system. So, the compromise is AAP. FCPS made a financial decision at some point to go with the AAP model...nothing wrong with that but they didn't adjust the paradigm that AAP could be afforded to an even wider group of students.

But why single out AAP then? No public school district has a gifted program that is anywhere close to your example. By saying "AAP is not a real gifted program", the implication is that it is common for other school districts to offer "real" gifted programs. Fairfax County comes closer to this than any public school system I've seen.

I am implying the opposite; that it is not common for other school districts to offer "real" gifted programs because the cost of doing so is prohibitive. Also, the numbers of gifted kids in a typical school district is generally low which also would make it difficult to justify a "real" gifted program. FCPS has a great AAP program...my point is that given the level of instruction...it should be open to a wider group of kids across the county.

[Anonymous]

Summary Post

What I am saying is your precious snowflakes will do just fine

Do you really think elementary school has that much of an impact on your child's life.

Do you really thinking having someone take AP Calculus in 9th vs 10th vs 11th vs 12th vs gasp not at all is really going to have that much of an impact on your child?

What I am saying is in the real world NOBODY CARES ABOUT AAP or AP or when and if you took AP Calculus or what college you went to or whatever other criteria you idiots are obsessed with for your precious offspring.

They care if you can do the job and guess what when I look at a resume I look at what you did at your last job and maybe the one before that. That's it

Signed someone grounded in reality

I truly feel bad for your kids. Take a chill pill people.

[Anonymous]

Summary: 11:53 is very mean spirited and has a strange obsession with AAP, especially since she sees the program as so worthless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Summary Post

What I am saying is your precious snowflakes will do just fine

Do you really think elementary school has that much of an impact on your child's life.

Do you really thinking having someone take AP Calculus in 9th vs 10th vs 11th vs 12th vs gasp not at all is really going to have that much of an impact on your child?

What I am saying is in the real world NOBODY CARES ABOUT AAP or AP or when and if you took AP Calculus or what college you went to or whatever other criteria you idiots are obsessed with for your precious offspring.

They care if you can do the job and guess what when I look at a resume I look at what you did at your last job and maybe the one before that. That's it

Signed someone grounded in reality

I truly feel bad for your kids. Take a chill pill people.

I think you need them more than anyone else. Give a few to your straw men too.

[Anonymous]

Here is what I would be interested in. Hearing from a teacher in a FCPS MS AAP Center. Are self-selected honors and AAP classes doing the same work at the same level in your school? Or are the AAP classes stronger? I'd be especially interested in light of the fact that my AAP kid starts HS next year. Is he going to find honors work to be step down for a couple years until he hits IB (at one of the strong IB schools?). Or will it continue at the same pace as AAP has? Or can we hope for harder in 9th grade? Because, at this point, we are seeing high As with minimal effort at a "strong" AAP Center MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is what I would be interested in. Hearing from a teacher in a FCPS MS AAP Center. Are self-selected honors and AAP classes doing the same work at the same level in your school? Or are the AAP classes stronger? I'd be especially interested in light of the fact that my AAP kid starts HS next year. Is he going to find honors work to be step down for a couple years until he hits IB (at one of the strong IB schools?). Or will it continue at the same pace as AAP has? Or can we hope for harder in 9th grade? Because, at this point, we are seeing high As with minimal effort at a "strong" AAP Center MS.

Call your kids' current teacher or an honors head at your soon-to-be high school. You won't find dependable answers here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is what I would be interested in. Hearing from a teacher in a FCPS MS AAP Center. Are self-selected honors and AAP classes doing the same work at the same level in your school? Or are the AAP classes stronger? I'd be especially interested in light of the fact that my AAP kid starts HS next year. Is he going to find honors work to be step down for a couple years until he hits IB (at one of the strong IB schools?). Or will it continue at the same pace as AAP has? Or can we hope for harder in 9th grade? Because, at this point, we are seeing high As with minimal effort at a "strong" AAP Center MS.

NP here. I guess my answer would be, who cares? Once in high school, your child will be in classes filled with all kind of kids, including those who were never in AAP, but who are now (finally) able to self-select honors, AP or IB classes. I guarantee your child will not find any of his high school classes a "step down" ( ) from middle school, regardless of what level he is currently in. He will be surrounded by kids of all abilities, many of whom will be far brighter than he, regardless of prior AAP experience. It's amazing how that works.

[Anonymous]

But most GE kids are not in honors or AP in HS. Most AAP or self dejectedly honors in MS kids will be.

[Anonymous]

Self selected- I hate auto correct

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But most GE kids are not in honors or AP in HS. Most AAP or self dejectedly honors in MS kids will be.

Show proof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But most GE kids are not in honors or AP in HS. Most AAP or self dejectedly honors in MS kids will be.

Show proof.

AAP kids can continue AAP (Called AA in middle school) classes in MS. GE cannot take AA classes in MS; they must self-select honors in MS. Anyone can take honors/AP/IB or none of the above. By then...who cares...Some AAP kids will be interested in the Arts while some GE kids will be interested in Physics...the honors classes taken in middle school and high school will basically level the playing field with respect to preparation for AP/IB in HS.