Supreme Court revisits Texas affirmative action in new case

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.

If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.

This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.

No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.

What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.

Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?

Depends on the race.

Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.

Reading this I wonder a) if the kid applied to the right schools for him/her and 2) if who the kid is and what he wants out of life came across. I see an excellent student, then a long list of leadership positions, writing awards and research experiences before we even get to the excellent clubs and ECs. If he's sort of a jack of all trades with no clear passion, there are too many kids like this applying to all schools.

You conveniently dismissed the part where where the black student would have been admitted -- even as a jack-of-all trades and no clear passion.

There was a black kid last year with significantly worse stats that was accepted to every Ivy League school.

Imagine how impressive that black kid would have been if he had been exposed to the helicoptering and enrichment as the kids of most of the parents on this board.

I'd suspect the vast majority of any kids scoring this well would have had an environment growing up that was very conducive to learning. There aren't many really poor kids going to top schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.

If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.

This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.

No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.

What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.

Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?

Depends on the race.

Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.

I don't believe the above for a second. Bullshit. Name? Details?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.

If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.

This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.

No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.

What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.

Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?

Depends on the race.

Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.

I don't believe the above for a second. Bullshit. Name? Details?

Why don't you believe it. Even more impressive accomplishments were left out for privacy reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.

If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.

This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.

No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.

What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.

Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?

Depends on the race.

Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.

Agree. There are plenty of athletes, legacies, and non-black students who do not fit the above same criteria, but still get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.

If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.

This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.

No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.

What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.

Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?

Depends on the race.

Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.

Agree. There are plenty of athletes, legacies, and non-black students who do not fit the above same criteria, but still get in.

Seems to me there should be concerned about the high acceptances of international students, as evidenced the article below from CC:


An interesting article at the Wall Street Journal notes that 975,000 international students are enrolled in US colleges and universities this year, up 10% from the year before. Since most of these are full-tuition students, they are attractive prospects for financially strapped US schools. But, it's making it more difficult for US and in-state students to be admitted.

The article focuses on University of California schools, who accepted 62% of in-state applicants last year - down from 84% four years earlier.

According to the article, the UC schools are the most affected. Most other state schools have held in-state admissions steady. (The article doesn't describe the effect on out-of-state US students. Presumably, a full-pay international student might be more desirable than a domestic student who would need financial aid.)

Declining state subsidies in California, UC administrators say, make it necessary to admit more full-pay international students to keep in-state tuition low.

More: http://www.wsj.com/articles/foreign-students-pinch-university-of-california-home-state-admissions-1447650060

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.

If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.

This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.

No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.

What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.

Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?

Depends on the race.

Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.

Agree. There are plenty of athletes, legacies, and non-black students who do not fit the above same criteria, but still get in.

Seems to me there should be concerned about the high acceptances of international students, as evidenced the article below from CC:


An interesting article at the Wall Street Journal notes that 975,000 international students are enrolled in US colleges and universities this year, up 10% from the year before. Since most of these are full-tuition students, they are attractive prospects for financially strapped US schools. But, it's making it more difficult for US and in-state students to be admitted.

The article focuses on University of California schools, who accepted 62% of in-state applicants last year - down from 84% four years earlier.

According to the article, the UC schools are the most affected. Most other state schools have held in-state admissions steady. (The article doesn't describe the effect on out-of-state US students. Presumably, a full-pay international student might be more desirable than a domestic student who would need financial aid.)

Declining state subsidies in California, UC administrators say, make it necessary to admit more full-pay international students to keep in-state tuition low.

More: http://www.wsj.com/articles/foreign-students-pinch-university-of-california-home-state-admissions-1447650060

PP, it's the precise opposite. If we truly believe in the educational benefits of diversity, we need to bring in MANY MORE international students. 975,000 international students is but a token. I want my kids exposed to how the Chinese think, how Arabs speak, how Latin Americans dance, how Germans plan.

If you prefer a chauvinist approach ("only American students matter"), you are of course entitled to say so, but please add clarify that you don't really give a sh*t about diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.

If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.

This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.

No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.

What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.

Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?

Depends on the race.

Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.

Agree. There are plenty of athletes, legacies, and non-black students who do not fit the above same criteria, but still get in.

Seems to me there should be concerned about the high acceptances of international students, as evidenced the article below from CC:


An interesting article at the Wall Street Journal notes that 975,000 international students are enrolled in US colleges and universities this year, up 10% from the year before. Since most of these are full-tuition students, they are attractive prospects for financially strapped US schools. But, it's making it more difficult for US and in-state students to be admitted.

The article focuses on University of California schools, who accepted 62% of in-state applicants last year - down from 84% four years earlier.

According to the article, the UC schools are the most affected. Most other state schools have held in-state admissions steady. (The article doesn't describe the effect on out-of-state US students. Presumably, a full-pay international student might be more desirable than a domestic student who would need financial aid.)

Declining state subsidies in California, UC administrators say, make it necessary to admit more full-pay international students to keep in-state tuition low.

More: http://www.wsj.com/articles/foreign-students-pinch-university-of-california-home-state-admissions-1447650060

PP, it's the precise opposite. If we truly believe in the educational benefits of diversity, we need to bring in MANY MORE international students. 975,000 international students is but a token. I want my kids exposed to how the Chinese think, how Arabs speak, how Latin Americans dance, how Germans plan.

If you prefer a chauvinist approach ("only American students matter"), you are of course entitled to say so, but please add clarify that you don't really give a sh*t about diversity.

Why bring in international students. We clearly don't understand each other's cultures here!

[Anonymous]

I personally know of at least 4 people (educated, upper middle class, normally Hillary voters) who are planning to vote for TRUMP. They have had it up to here with what they regard as URM/affirmative action bullshit. They see "meh" kids of black Big Law partners easily getting into selective colleges when other kids with much more stellar records are being rejected. White-skinned kids whose families have recently discovered their 25% Hispanic "heritage" are doing very well in early college acceptances also. You can't blame folks for playing a good hand, but the whole URM preference thing has become absurd. Other parents are tired of their kids being screwed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.

If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.

This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.

No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.

What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.

Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?

Depends on the race.

Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.

Agree. There are plenty of athletes, legacies, and non-black students who do not fit the above same criteria, but still get in.

Seems to me there should be concerned about the high acceptances of international students, as evidenced the article below from CC:


An interesting article at the Wall Street Journal notes that 975,000 international students are enrolled in US colleges and universities this year, up 10% from the year before. Since most of these are full-tuition students, they are attractive prospects for financially strapped US schools. But, it's making it more difficult for US and in-state students to be admitted.

The article focuses on University of California schools, who accepted 62% of in-state applicants last year - down from 84% four years earlier.

According to the article, the UC schools are the most affected. Most other state schools have held in-state admissions steady. (The article doesn't describe the effect on out-of-state US students. Presumably, a full-pay international student might be more desirable than a domestic student who would need financial aid.)

Declining state subsidies in California, UC administrators say, make it necessary to admit more full-pay international students to keep in-state tuition low.

More: http://www.wsj.com/articles/foreign-students-pinch-university-of-california-home-state-admissions-1447650060

PP, it's the precise opposite. If we truly believe in the educational benefits of diversity, we need to bring in MANY MORE international students. 975,000 international students is but a token. I want my kids exposed to how the Chinese think, how Arabs speak, how Latin Americans dance, how Germans plan.

If you prefer a chauvinist approach ("only American students matter"), you are of course entitled to say so, but please add clarify that you don't really give a sh*t about diversity.

Why bring in international students. We clearly don't understand each other's cultures here!

Often you need people from the outside to tell you how bad it smells inside and to open the windows a bit

[Anonymous]

16:48, great article. Loved it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.

If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.

This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.

No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.

What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.

Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?

Depends on the race.

Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.

Agree. There are plenty of athletes, legacies, and non-black students who do not fit the above same criteria, but still get in.

Seems to me there should be concerned about the high acceptances of international students, as evidenced the article below from CC:


An interesting article at the Wall Street Journal notes that 975,000 international students are enrolled in US colleges and universities this year, up 10% from the year before. Since most of these are full-tuition students, they are attractive prospects for financially strapped US schools. But, it's making it more difficult for US and in-state students to be admitted.

The article focuses on University of California schools, who accepted 62% of in-state applicants last year - down from 84% four years earlier.

According to the article, the UC schools are the most affected. Most other state schools have held in-state admissions steady. (The article doesn't describe the effect on out-of-state US students. Presumably, a full-pay international student might be more desirable than a domestic student who would need financial aid.)

Declining state subsidies in California, UC administrators say, make it necessary to admit more full-pay international students to keep in-state tuition low.

More: http://www.wsj.com/articles/foreign-students-pinch-university-of-california-home-state-admissions-1447650060

PP, it's the precise opposite. If we truly believe in the educational benefits of diversity, we need to bring in MANY MORE international students. 975,000 international students is but a token. I want my kids exposed to how the Chinese think, how Arabs speak, how Latin Americans dance, how Germans plan.

If you prefer a chauvinist approach ("only American students matter"), you are of course entitled to say so, but please add clarify that you don't really give a sh*t about diversity.

Why bring in international students. We clearly don't understand each other's cultures here!

Often you need people from the outside to tell you how bad it smells inside and to open the windows a bit

True, it's a hell hole in the US; that's why we have to struggle to get people to immigrate here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.

If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.

This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.

No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.

What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.

Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?

Depends on the race.

Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.

Agree. There are plenty of athletes, legacies, and non-black students who do not fit the above same criteria, but still get in.

Seems to me there should be concerned about the high acceptances of international students, as evidenced the article below from CC:


An interesting article at the Wall Street Journal notes that 975,000 international students are enrolled in US colleges and universities this year, up 10% from the year before. Since most of these are full-tuition students, they are attractive prospects for financially strapped US schools. But, it's making it more difficult for US and in-state students to be admitted.

The article focuses on University of California schools, who accepted 62% of in-state applicants last year - down from 84% four years earlier.

According to the article, the UC schools are the most affected. Most other state schools have held in-state admissions steady. (The article doesn't describe the effect on out-of-state US students. Presumably, a full-pay international student might be more desirable than a domestic student who would need financial aid.)

Declining state subsidies in California, UC administrators say, make it necessary to admit more full-pay international students to keep in-state tuition low.

More: http://www.wsj.com/articles/foreign-students-pinch-university-of-california-home-state-admissions-1447650060

PP, it's the precise opposite. If we truly believe in the educational benefits of diversity, we need to bring in MANY MORE international students. 975,000 international students is but a token. I want my kids exposed to how the Chinese think, how Arabs speak, how Latin Americans dance, how Germans plan.

If you prefer a chauvinist approach ("only American students matter"), you are of course entitled to say so, but please add clarify that you don't really give a sh*t about diversity.

That's fine for private schools, but state schools are subsidized by taxpayers of their states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.

If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.

This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.

No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.

What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.

Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?

Depends on the race.

Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.

Agree. There are plenty of athletes, legacies, and non-black students who do not fit the above same criteria, but still get in.

Seems to me there should be concerned about the high acceptances of international students, as evidenced the article below from CC:


An interesting article at the Wall Street Journal notes that 975,000 international students are enrolled in US colleges and universities this year, up 10% from the year before. Since most of these are full-tuition students, they are attractive prospects for financially strapped US schools. But, it's making it more difficult for US and in-state students to be admitted.

The article focuses on University of California schools, who accepted 62% of in-state applicants last year - down from 84% four years earlier.

According to the article, the UC schools are the most affected. Most other state schools have held in-state admissions steady. (The article doesn't describe the effect on out-of-state US students. Presumably, a full-pay international student might be more desirable than a domestic student who would need financial aid.)

Declining state subsidies in California, UC administrators say, make it necessary to admit more full-pay international students to keep in-state tuition low.

More: http://www.wsj.com/articles/foreign-students-pinch-university-of-california-home-state-admissions-1447650060

PP, it's the precise opposite. If we truly believe in the educational benefits of diversity, we need to bring in MANY MORE international students. 975,000 international students is but a token. I want my kids exposed to how the Chinese think, how Arabs speak, how Latin Americans dance, how Germans plan.

If you prefer a chauvinist approach ("only American students matter"), you are of course entitled to say so, but please add clarify that you don't really give a sh*t about diversity.

I fully believe that American universities should first educate American citizens. An educated citizenry benefits our education just as our first responsibility is jobs for our citizens not jobs for the world.

[Anonymous]

Even private schools are heavily funded with federal grants and financial aid. Yes, Americans should have priority...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.

If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.

This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.

No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.

What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.

Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?

Depends on the race.

Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.

Agree. There are plenty of athletes, legacies, and non-black students who do not fit the above same criteria, but still get in.

Seems to me there should be concerned about the high acceptances of international students, as evidenced the article below from CC:


An interesting article at the Wall Street Journal notes that 975,000 international students are enrolled in US colleges and universities this year, up 10% from the year before. Since most of these are full-tuition students, they are attractive prospects for financially strapped US schools. But, it's making it more difficult for US and in-state students to be admitted.

The article focuses on University of California schools, who accepted 62% of in-state applicants last year - down from 84% four years earlier.

According to the article, the UC schools are the most affected. Most other state schools have held in-state admissions steady. (The article doesn't describe the effect on out-of-state US students. Presumably, a full-pay international student might be more desirable than a domestic student who would need financial aid.)

Declining state subsidies in California, UC administrators say, make it necessary to admit more full-pay international students to keep in-state tuition low.

More: http://www.wsj.com/articles/foreign-students-pinch-university-of-california-home-state-admissions-1447650060

PP, it's the precise opposite. If we truly believe in the educational benefits of diversity, we need to bring in MANY MORE international students. 975,000 international students is but a token. I want my kids exposed to how the Chinese think, how Arabs speak, how Latin Americans dance, how Germans plan.

If you prefer a chauvinist approach ("only American students matter"), you are of course entitled to say so, but please add clarify that you don't really give a sh*t about diversity.

I fully believe that American universities should first educate American citizens. An educated citizenry benefits our education just as our first responsibility is jobs for our citizens not jobs for the world.

Very well said, and you prove my point: you don't believe in the supposed "educational benefits of diversity"