Supreme Court revisits Texas affirmative action in new case

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Blacks have lower sat scores, tend to major in easier majors in college, have lower grades than whites/Asians and have lower graduation rates.

Maybe there is a correlation between sat scores and success in college.


Again, that is so topical. The question is why. Most are first time college students. Where do they get guidance. I didn't get any. Why are there grades lower. As I stated before, Kavitha Cardoza did a great series on NPR and found some enlightening information on why this happens. In addition, the Posse Foundation has also studied this. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

All I know is that I got a 900 on the SAT (out of 1600), graduated from high school with a 2.73. Graduated from college with a 3.5, law school top 5% of my class (top tier school) and passed 2 bars on the first try. Boy those SAT scores really dictated my future.

I'm not going back and forth since you already like your narrative. Go with it.


Perhaps you went to mid-tier college and majored in sociology/psychology or ethnic studies. Maybe you attended "top tier" meaning top 100 law school.


+1
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Regardless the outcome, private colleges like Harvard, Princeton, etc, will continue holistic admissions. Good for them.


Private universities may be affected and (bound) by the US Supreme Court ruling since they receive federal funds from the Federal Government unless they give up all federal funds.


I think it's time to end this racial discrimination based on race. This is shameful and unconstitutional to allow racial discrimination to continue. All citizens are guaranteed equal protection under the law.


So what do we do about the fact that with few exceptions the standards for admissions for a white male and lower than they are for a white female. The rationale is that colleges prefer gender parity for a variety of reasons. But is that fair to girls? I think it's time to end discrimination based on gender. It is shameful. All citizens are guaranteed equal protections under the law. And please don't ask me to cite sources. Look it up yourself.


Depends on the criteria used. Grades? Yes. SAT scores? No. In any case, the differences are slight compared to racial preferences.


No, girls and Asians (boys and girls) have both higher grades and SAT scores than white boys in general. Why do white boys get a pass? If a meritocracy is so damned important to people then they shouldn't be so quick to drop it when it comes to white boys. This is anecdotal but several boys in my daughter's classes at a SLAC have come right out and said if they were a girl they would have never be admitted. Tell a girl who had been weeded out based on gender that the differences are slight. Time for lazy white boys to face the music.


Not true. White males have higher SAT scores than white females by about 40 points. There are almost twice as many males with SAT math scores above 700, and slightly more with Reading scores above 700. Females have higher grades. All the details are here:

http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/2013/TotalGroup-2013.pdf


You need to look at scores based on individual colleges and universities. Looking at the "total group" is an odd way to look at admission odds for a particular institution. Look at the common data set for a specific college (under institutional research on the college/university website) and you'll see a different story. At most schools admitted girls have higher scores than admitted boys. Not all, but most.


I looked at the CDS for UVA and W&M from their websites and I didn't see anything broken out by gender. Is there another place to look? I also don't think looking at the total group is particularly odd; the assertion was that white women had higher SAT scores than white men. That's simply not true based on the data; higher average SAT scores and significantly more scoring above 700 on the math portion. It's possible that there are more men getting high SAT scores that don't have the grades to enter top schools, but white men do, without a doubt; score slightly higher than white women. If the admitted men at schools have lower SATs than the admitted women it's not because they can't find guys out there with higher scores.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Blacks have lower sat scores, tend to major in easier majors in college, have lower grades than whites/Asians and have lower graduation rates.

Maybe there is a correlation between sat scores and success in college.


Again, that is so topical. The question is why. Most are first time college students. Where do they get guidance. I didn't get any. Why are there grades lower. As I stated before, Kavitha Cardoza did a great series on NPR and found some enlightening information on why this happens. In addition, the Posse Foundation has also studied this. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

All I know is that I got a 900 on the SAT (out of 1600), graduated from high school with a 2.73. Graduated from college with a 3.5, law school top 5% of my class (top tier school) and passed 2 bars on the first try. Boy those SAT scores really dictated my future.

I'm not going back and forth since you already like your narrative. Go with it.


Perhaps you went to mid-tier college and majored in sociology/psychology or ethnic studies. Maybe you attended "top tier" meaning top 100 law school.


+1


Top 25 law school and my B.A. is in Economics. Boom!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The worst discrimination today is against Muslims. They are the ones who should receive the admissions tip since they are clearly being discriminated against.


There are plenty of universities in Pakistan.


Plain ignorance.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Blacks have lower sat scores, tend to major in easier majors in college, have lower grades than whites/Asians and have lower graduation rates.

Maybe there is a correlation between sat scores and success in college.


Again, that is so topical. The question is why. Most are first time college students. Where do they get guidance. I didn't get any. Why are there grades lower. As I stated before, Kavitha Cardoza did a great series on NPR and found some enlightening information on why this happens. In addition, the Posse Foundation has also studied this. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

All I know is that I got a 900 on the SAT (out of 1600), graduated from high school with a 2.73. Graduated from college with a 3.5, law school top 5% of my class (top tier school) and passed 2 bars on the first try. Boy those SAT scores really dictated my future.

I'm not going back and forth since you already like your narrative. Go with it.
If we are to continue with affirmative action it should be economically based and not race based. Lack of guidance is largely indicative of socio-economic class and not race. Why should a black student or a women from an affluent family or who have college educated parents or who are multiple generational college educated receive affirmative action when it is the poor kids of any race who need the step up?[/quote

Ok. We know how you feel. You just can't be ok with black people getting a paltry 4.4% at UT. Damn. Take the whole 100%.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.



If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.


This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.


No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.


What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.


Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?


Depends on the race.



Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.
Anonymous
When my son was in seventh grade, one of his friend told him that even if he is the football team captain and the student council president, gets straight A’s and a perfect SAT score, he still won’t be able to get into Harvard—just because he is an Asian. (He was the running back of his school football team at the time and a member of school student council.) He asked me if this is true. It saddened me that I couldn’t simply tell him it is not.

When my daughter was six, she played a game at a Girl Scout meeting to learn that they are all equal despite their different skin colors and looks; race doesn’t matter. She was taught so at home and at school for 17 years and she believed in it. I often heard her say that “race doesn’t matter” when the word was “race” mentioned—until her senior year in high school. I asked her what was so great about her friend to make him be accepted to Harvard. Instead of telling me about his accomplishments, she said that his mother (a Caucasian woman) has some sort of Hispanic lineage, so he is a “Hispanic”.

This race-based admission process slaps everybody on the face. It tells kids what hypocrites we all are. Our school district has zero tolerance for racial discrimination. Our children were told for all their lives that they should judge people by their character, not skin color. But right before our kids leave home for college, it is our country’s most prestigious institutions that FIRST bring them the news: What your parents and teachers have taught you are lies: Race does matter! We judge you by your skin color!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.



If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.


This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.


No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.


What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.


Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?


Depends on the race.



Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.



Reading this I wonder a) if the kid applied to the right schools for him/her and 2) if who the kid is and what he wants out of life came across. I see an excellent student, then a long list of leadership positions, writing awards and research experiences before we even get to the excellent clubs and ECs. If he's sort of a jack of all trades with no clear passion, there are too many kids like this applying to all schools.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:When my son was in seventh grade, one of his friend told him that even if he is the football team captain and the student council president, gets straight A’s and a perfect SAT score, he still won’t be able to get into Harvard—just because he is an Asian. (He was the running back of his school football team at the time and a member of school student council.) He asked me if this is true. It saddened me that I couldn’t simply tell him it is not.

When my daughter was six, she played a game at a Girl Scout meeting to learn that they are all equal despite their different skin colors and looks; race doesn’t matter. She was taught so at home and at school for 17 years and she believed in it. I often heard her say that “race doesn’t matter” when the word was “race” mentioned—until her senior year in high school. I asked her what was so great about her friend to make him be accepted to Harvard. Instead of telling me about his accomplishments, she said that his mother (a Caucasian woman) has some sort of Hispanic lineage, so he is a “Hispanic”.

This race-based admission process slaps everybody on the face. It tells kids what hypocrites we all are. Our school district has zero tolerance for racial discrimination. Our children were told for all their lives that they should judge people by their character, not skin color. But right before our kids leave home for college, it is our country’s most prestigious institutions that FIRST bring them the news: What your parents and teachers have taught you are lies: Race does matter! We judge you by your skin color!
Sadly, this is all too true.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.



If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.


This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.


No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.


What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.


Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?


Depends on the race.



Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.



Reading this I wonder a) if the kid applied to the right schools for him/her and 2) if who the kid is and what he wants out of life came across. I see an excellent student, then a long list of leadership positions, writing awards and research experiences before we even get to the excellent clubs and ECs. If he's sort of a jack of all trades with no clear passion, there are too many kids like this applying to all schools.

You conveniently dismissed the part where where the black student would have been admitted -- even as a jack-of-all trades and no clear passion.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.



If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.


This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.


No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.


What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.


Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?


Depends on the race.



Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.



Reading this I wonder a) if the kid applied to the right schools for him/her and 2) if who the kid is and what he wants out of life came across. I see an excellent student, then a long list of leadership positions, writing awards and research experiences before we even get to the excellent clubs and ECs. If he's sort of a jack of all trades with no clear passion, there are too many kids like this applying to all schools.

You conveniently dismissed the part where where the black student would have been admitted -- even as a jack-of-all trades and no clear passion.


There was a black kid last year with significantly worse stats that was accepted to every Ivy League school.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.



If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.


This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.


No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.


What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.


Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?


Depends on the race.



Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.



Reading this I wonder a) if the kid applied to the right schools for him/her and 2) if who the kid is and what he wants out of life came across. I see an excellent student, then a long list of leadership positions, writing awards and research experiences before we even get to the excellent clubs and ECs. If he's sort of a jack of all trades with no clear passion, there are too many kids like this applying to all schools.

You conveniently dismissed the part where where the black student would have been admitted -- even as a jack-of-all trades and no clear passion.


There was a black kid last year with significantly worse stats that was accepted to every Ivy League school.


Imagine how impressive that black kid would have been if he had been exposed to the helicoptering and enrichment as the kids of most of the parents on this board.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.



If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.


This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.


No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.


What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.


Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?


Depends on the race.



Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.



Reading this I wonder a) if the kid applied to the right schools for him/her and 2) if who the kid is and what he wants out of life came across. I see an excellent student, then a long list of leadership positions, writing awards and research experiences before we even get to the excellent clubs and ECs. If he's sort of a jack of all trades with no clear passion, there are too many kids like this applying to all schools.

You conveniently dismissed the part where where the black student would have been admitted -- even as a jack-of-all trades and no clear passion.


There was a black kid last year with significantly worse stats that was accepted to every Ivy League school.


Imagine how impressive that black kid would have been if he had been exposed to the helicoptering and enrichment as the kids of most of the parents on this board.
Racist much? Are you implying thst because he is black he had poor parenting and no opportunities?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.



If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.


This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.


No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.


What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.


Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?


Depends on the race.



Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.



Reading this I wonder a) if the kid applied to the right schools for him/her and 2) if who the kid is and what he wants out of life came across. I see an excellent student, then a long list of leadership positions, writing awards and research experiences before we even get to the excellent clubs and ECs. If he's sort of a jack of all trades with no clear passion, there are too many kids like this applying to all schools.

You conveniently dismissed the part where where the black student would have been admitted -- even as a jack-of-all trades and no clear passion.


There was a black kid last year with significantly worse stats that was accepted to every Ivy League school.


Imagine how impressive that black kid would have been if he had been exposed to the helicoptering and enrichment as the kids of most of the parents on this board.
Racist much? Are you implying thst because he is black he had poor parenting and no opportunities?


Do you know how to write much?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:...and, in addition to that, studies have shown that grades are more indicative of success then test scores.



If you're interested in how well test score predict college performance:

http://www.isironline.org/isir-2015-invited-address-paul-sackett-nathan-kuncel/

They have a dataset that show that test scores predict academic performance quite well, and do so regardless of race, SES and gender. The sample size was 1.2 million college students.


This has been refuted. High SAT scores are correlated to high SES. When I get a moment, I will post. Especially, when it comes to LSAT and bar passage rates.


No, this hasn't been refuted. It's a brand new study with 1.2 million participants (college board data). Most of other studies were very small sample size or were manipulated to get the results the author wanted. Watch the presentation, it's very illuminating.


What will it prove? That only kids with high SAT scores should go to college? That only a subset of our population deserve to be there? That colleges should only use test scores for admission? That our society is better if we only employ people who scored well? Please - illuminate me.


Yes? Do you think everybody is college material?


Depends on the race.



Non-black applicant with 2370 SAT, 4.0 and 4.6 gpa, 12+ APs all 5s, 800 on all subject tests, sport, orchestra, 2 major leadership positions, extensive volunteering, original research at University, internships at research labs, writing award and writing tutor, 3 foreign languages, excellent clubs and ECs, excellent LORs etc. denied to all colleges except one. Low SES with no advantages.

A black applicant with the above qualifications would have been admitted to all of the colleges. Depends on the race.



Reading this I wonder a) if the kid applied to the right schools for him/her and 2) if who the kid is and what he wants out of life came across. I see an excellent student, then a long list of leadership positions, writing awards and research experiences before we even get to the excellent clubs and ECs. If he's sort of a jack of all trades with no clear passion, there are too many kids like this applying to all schools.

You conveniently dismissed the part where where the black student would have been admitted -- even as a jack-of-all trades and no clear passion.


But that black student would be, duh, black.

And therefore add so much color to university brochures.

Isn't that the point of Affirmative Racist Action (ARA)?
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