Madison HS or the IB program at Marshall HS?

[Anonymous]

You're an ass!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're an ass!

No PP is just woefully uneducated and unprepared for the world that's coming. Think, professional version of high school-educated autoworker, wondering when that world is going to come back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only reason many prefer AP is because it is easier to be able to pick and choose AP courses than to take all IB courses for the diploma. However, a full IB diploma graduate is much more rare and desirable in the eyes of most colleges. The amount of credits awarded at some schools may be fewer, but they do recognize that it is the most rigorous program available.

My son in planning on majoring in pre-med, and most medical schools will not accept AP or IB credits in lieu of any of their undergrad requirements (4 years of college science, 2 years of calculus, etc). For that reason, he wants to do IB instead of AP.

Many AP courses are considered more demanding than their IB counterpart, and some have no IB equivalent. Colleges will not necessarily know when students are applying for admission whether an applicant will receive an IB diploma because that decision is not made until after the student graduates. If you really believe what you write here, you should make sure your child both obtains an IB diploma and then takes a gap year so the schools to which he's applying know he received an IB diploma.

Colleges aren't necessarily blown away by an IB diploma. They also look at SAT/ACT scores and the overall academic reputation of the secondary school. What does concern many parents is the perception that non-IB diploma candidates at IB schools are relegated to the bottom of the candidate pile in a way that isn't true for students who take a healthy, but not exclusive, selection of AP courses. Also, before you get too enamored of your own rhetoric, you should realize that the most prestigious universities may have pre-med programs, but not pre-med majors.

I have nothing against IB for those prefer its Euro-centric perspective and comparatively rigid curriculum, but when the county is paying extra money for IB program coordinators and dues at schools where the percentage of students getting IB diplomas is ridiculously low, I think it requires closer examination. I'd rather see Falls Church HS getting renovated earlier, for example, rather than continuing to spend extra money on IB at each of Annandale, Edison, Lee and Stuart.

[Anonymous]

2012 - Percentages of Graduates at IB Schools Not Receiving IB Diplomas

Mount Vernon 96.9%
Annandale 95.1%
Lee 94.3%
Edison 93.3%
Stuart 91.9%
Robinson 86.1%
South Lakes 84.9%
Marshall 76.6%

The combined total is 89.7%. That's a hell of a lot of money to be spending on IB at schools where, even at their best, more than 75% of the graduates don't end up with the credential that supposedly impresses colleges and universities. Compare that with the substantially higher percentage of students at AP schoos who receive some recognition, and you'll see why parents at other schools prefer to stick with the more flexible AP program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only reason many prefer AP is because it is easier to be able to pick and choose AP courses than to take all IB courses for the diploma. However, a full IB diploma graduate is much more rare and desirable in the eyes of most colleges. The amount of credits awarded at some schools may be fewer, but they do recognize that it is the most rigorous program available.

My son in planning on majoring in pre-med, and most medical schools will not accept AP or IB credits in lieu of any of their undergrad requirements (4 years of college science, 2 years of calculus, etc). For that reason, he wants to do IB instead of AP.

Many AP courses are considered more demanding than their IB counterpart, and some have no IB equivalent. Colleges will not necessarily know when students are applying for admission whether an applicant will receive an IB diploma because that decision is not made until after the student graduates. If you really believe what you write here, you should make sure your child both obtains an IB diploma and then takes a gap year so the schools to which he's applying know he received an IB diploma.

Colleges aren't necessarily blown away by an IB diploma. They also look at SAT/ACT scores and the overall academic reputation of the secondary school. What does concern many parents is the perception that non-IB diploma candidates at IB schools are relegated to the bottom of the candidate pile in a way that isn't true for students who take a healthy, but not exclusive, selection of AP courses. Also, before you get too enamored of your own rhetoric, you should realize that the most prestigious universities may have pre-med programs, but not pre-med majors.

I have nothing against IB for those prefer its Euro-centric perspective and comparatively rigid curriculum, but when the county is paying extra money for IB program coordinators and dues at schools where the percentage of students getting IB diplomas is ridiculously low, I think it requires closer examination. I'd rather see Falls Church HS getting renovated earlier, for example, rather than continuing to spend extra money on IB at each of Annandale, Edison, Lee and Stuart.

That's a mighty high horse

[Anonymous]

Colleges do not view a student who takes 4 AP courses any differently than they view a student who takes 4 IB courses. Where the difference comes in is if that student took all 4 AP or IB courses in only math/science or only history/English. A student needs to prove that they are highly capable in all areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only reason many prefer AP is because it is easier to be able to pick and choose AP courses than to take all IB courses for the diploma. However, a full IB diploma graduate is much more rare and desirable in the eyes of most colleges. The amount of credits awarded at some schools may be fewer, but they do recognize that it is the most rigorous program available.

My son in planning on majoring in pre-med, and most medical schools will not accept AP or IB credits in lieu of any of their undergrad requirements (4 years of college science, 2 years of calculus, etc). For that reason, he wants to do IB instead of AP.

Many AP courses are considered more demanding than their IB counterpart, and some have no IB equivalent. Colleges will not necessarily know when students are applying for admission whether an applicant will receive an IB diploma because that decision is not made until after the student graduates. If you really believe what you write here, you should make sure your child both obtains an IB diploma and then takes a gap year so the schools to which he's applying know he received an IB diploma.

Colleges aren't necessarily blown away by an IB diploma. They also look at SAT/ACT scores and the overall academic reputation of the secondary school. What does concern many parents is the perception that non-IB diploma candidates at IB schools are relegated to the bottom of the candidate pile in a way that isn't true for students who take a healthy, but not exclusive, selection of AP courses. Also, before you get too enamored of your own rhetoric, you should realize that the most prestigious universities may have pre-med programs, but not pre-med majors.

I have nothing against IB for those prefer its Euro-centric perspective and comparatively rigid curriculum, but when the county is paying extra money for IB program coordinators and dues at schools where the percentage of students getting IB diplomas is ridiculously low, I think it requires closer examination. I'd rather see Falls Church HS getting renovated earlier, for example, rather than continuing to spend extra money on IB at each of Annandale, Edison, Lee and Stuart.

That's a mighty high horse

And that's an awfully weak retort. I know people who are thinking of pupil placing their kids to Marshall from Falls Church not because they like IB, but because Falls Church is in poor physical condition. Resources in the county are limited, yet we spend a lot of money on IB programs at eight high schools, even though the total number of IB diploma students at those schools could comfortably fit in one high school. Why not spend the money on something else - if not renovations at schools like Falls Church, more teachers and smaller class sizes elsewhere?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Colleges do not view a student who takes 4 AP courses any differently than they view a student who takes 4 IB courses. Where the difference comes in is if that student took all 4 AP or IB courses in only math/science or only history/English. A student needs to prove that they are highly capable in all areas.

Wrong. The IBO places such heavy emphasis on the IB diploma, as do the small number of IB diploma recipients, that anything less than an IB diploma at an IB school is considered sub-standard by many schools. Not so with AP, which has a more graduated approach.

And, of course, if 4 IB courses are the equivalent of 4 AP courses, that would be even more reason to pare back on IB within FCPS, since IB is considerably more expensive per student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only reason many prefer AP is because it is easier to be able to pick and choose AP courses than to take all IB courses for the diploma. However, a full IB diploma graduate is much more rare and desirable in the eyes of most colleges. The amount of credits awarded at some schools may be fewer, but they do recognize that it is the most rigorous program available.

My son in planning on majoring in pre-med, and most medical schools will not accept AP or IB credits in lieu of any of their undergrad requirements (4 years of college science, 2 years of calculus, etc). For that reason, he wants to do IB instead of AP.

Many AP courses are considered more demanding than their IB counterpart, and some have no IB equivalent. Colleges will not necessarily know when students are applying for admission whether an applicant will receive an IB diploma because that decision is not made until after the student graduates. If you really believe what you write here, you should make sure your child both obtains an IB diploma and then takes a gap year so the schools to which he's applying know he received an IB diploma.

Colleges aren't necessarily blown away by an IB diploma. They also look at SAT/ACT scores and the overall academic reputation of the secondary school. What does concern many parents is the perception that non-IB diploma candidates at IB schools are relegated to the bottom of the candidate pile in a way that isn't true for students who take a healthy, but not exclusive, selection of AP courses. Also, before you get too enamored of your own rhetoric, you should realize that the most prestigious universities may have pre-med programs, but not pre-med majors.

I have nothing against IB for those prefer its Euro-centric perspective and comparatively rigid curriculum, but when the county is paying extra money for IB program coordinators and dues at schools where the percentage of students getting IB diplomas is ridiculously low, I think it requires closer examination. I'd rather see Falls Church HS getting renovated earlier, for example, rather than continuing to spend extra money on IB at each of Annandale, Edison, Lee and Stuart.

That's a mighty high horse

This is actually an advantage for an IB student as opposed to a disadvantage, as you imply. If a student is designated as an IB diploma candidate with excellent grades thus far, and the college sees all the required coursework will be completed, they assume the student will receive the diploma. Occasionally, the diploma is not reached for whatever reason, but admission is very, very rarely rescinded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges do not view a student who takes 4 AP courses any differently than they view a student who takes 4 IB courses. Where the difference comes in is if that student took all 4 AP or IB courses in only math/science or only history/English. A student needs to prove that they are highly capable in all areas.

Wrong. The IBO places such heavy emphasis on the IB diploma, as do the small number of IB diploma recipients, that anything less than an IB diploma at an IB school is considered sub-standard by many schools. Not so with AP, which has a more graduated approach.

And, of course, if 4 IB courses are the equivalent of 4 AP courses, that would be even more reason to pare back on IB within FCPS, since IB is considerably more expensive per student.

Why are you blasting your nonsensical assumptions all over this board as fact?
If you have an issue with the amount of money spent on IB, move your child to an IB school and reap the benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only reason many prefer AP is because it is easier to be able to pick and choose AP courses than to take all IB courses for the diploma. However, a full IB diploma graduate is much more rare and desirable in the eyes of most colleges. The amount of credits awarded at some schools may be fewer, but they do recognize that it is the most rigorous program available.

My son in planning on majoring in pre-med, and most medical schools will not accept AP or IB credits in lieu of any of their undergrad requirements (4 years of college science, 2 years of calculus, etc). For that reason, he wants to do IB instead of AP.

Many AP courses are considered more demanding than their IB counterpart, and some have no IB equivalent. Colleges will not necessarily know when students are applying for admission whether an applicant will receive an IB diploma because that decision is not made until after the student graduates. If you really believe what you write here, you should make sure your child both obtains an IB diploma and then takes a gap year so the schools to which he's applying know he received an IB diploma.

Colleges aren't necessarily blown away by an IB diploma. They also look at SAT/ACT scores and the overall academic reputation of the secondary school. What does concern many parents is the perception that non-IB diploma candidates at IB schools are relegated to the bottom of the candidate pile in a way that isn't true for students who take a healthy, but not exclusive, selection of AP courses. Also, before you get too enamored of your own rhetoric, you should realize that the most prestigious universities may have pre-med programs, but not pre-med majors.

I have nothing against IB for those prefer its Euro-centric perspective and comparatively rigid curriculum, but when the county is paying extra money for IB program coordinators and dues at schools where the percentage of students getting IB diplomas is ridiculously low, I think it requires closer examination. I'd rather see Falls Church HS getting renovated earlier, for example, rather than continuing to spend extra money on IB at each of Annandale, Edison, Lee and Stuart.

That's a mighty high horse

This is actually an advantage for an IB student as opposed to a disadvantage, as you imply. If a student is designated as an IB diploma candidate with excellent grades thus far, and the college sees all the required coursework will be completed, they assume the student will receive the diploma. Occasionally, the diploma is not reached for whatever reason, but admission is very, very rarely rescinded.

You need to decide what you think appeals to colleges and universities - being an IB diploma candidate or an IB diploma recipient.

In FCPS, most IB diploma candidates receive IB diplomas, but a substantial number do not. In any event, the total number is small relative to the number of students at the IB schools. Most students at IB schools in FCPS receive little benefit from being part of the "global learning community," but are foreclosed from access to AP courses unless they pupil place, which requires them to arrange for their own transportation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Why are you blasting your nonsensical assumptions all over this board as fact?
If you have an issue with the amount of money spent on IB, move your child to an IB school and reap the benefits.

I know the IB proponents don't like being challenged. There's an entrenched IB infrastructure within FCPS of IB coordinators, students and parents, so they react negatively whenever anyone suggests a cost-benefit analysis of the program, even though they are limited in numbers.

And, of course, saying that those who raise valid questions about the money spent on IB should move their kids to IB schools is like saying those who dislike large class sizes should move their kids to Title I schools. It's a knee-jerk "put up or shut up" response that makes a mockery of the claim that IB encourages "critical analysis."

[Anonymous]

You think IB diploma candidates should take a gap year to show that they finished the diploma?

How exactly do AP students show that they're college ready?
Oh yeah...just like IB students do...with the AP exams at the end of senior year courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You think IB diploma candidates should take a gap year to show that they finished the diploma?

How exactly do AP students show that they're college ready?
Oh yeah...just like IB students do...with the AP exams at the end of senior year courses.

Many AP students have taken AP courses in their sophomore and junior years and already received excellent grades on AP exams before they apply to schools. Not so with IB students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Why are you blasting your nonsensical assumptions all over this board as fact?
If you have an issue with the amount of money spent on IB, move your child to an IB school and reap the benefits.

I know the IB proponents don't like being challenged. There's an entrenched IB infrastructure within FCPS of IB coordinators, students and parents, so they react negatively whenever anyone suggests a cost-benefit analysis of the program, even though they are limited in numbers.

And, of course, saying that those who raise valid questions about the money spent on IB should move their kids to IB schools is like saying those who dislike large class sizes should move their kids to Title I schools. It's a knee-jerk "put up or shut up" response that makes a mockery of the claim that IB encourages "critical analysis."

I'm not an IB proponent. I'm a level headed person who has has a kid in each. You, however, are a pompous ass who is speaking with authority using only hearsay and assumptions.