Bad News for Test Prep Parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I wouldn't classify the majority of 7-year-olds as serious students, as much as many parents in this area seem to want to opt out of childhood for their kids.

Nor does FCPS wait till the night before for the prep it authorizes. The teachers show kids what the test creators recommend they see beforehand -- sample problems to give them an idea of what to expect. They're not supposed to need any other advanced preparation.

Academic prep and discipline in children is about learning. It has nothing to do with AAP. Why do you think families that value education and spend valuable time with their children in this endeavor at an early age are necessarily preparing for AAP. These families could give a hoot about the low AAP bar or what is needed for that particular test. There is no need to steal test questions for this or any test.
For these families their engagement in education is far deeper than AAP or what is needed for the test or a goon night's sleep followed by ham and eggs.

For folk like Phelps and Peyton (with all their superlative gifts you are drooling over) their preparation, discipline and hard work is not about their work ethic and habits...that they will crush their opponent is immaterial. They are simply wired to prep and work hard...plain and simple. That their approach to life. One doesn't have to invoke stealing the other team's play book and cheating to explain why some children and their families work hard and prep. You don't have to join them. There is free choice.

Why is it so difficult to understand that this thread is not about general academic prep(aration) and discipline? It is only about "prep" for the AAP identification tests, nothing else.


And the sports figure analogies are not at all on point for the topic. Do you have crushes on these guys and just like to talk about them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, at least one has a misunderstanding about this, or simply pretends to misunderstand. No one suggests that anything is wrong with hard work and preparation.
People are suggesting that it is inappropriate for people to "prep" kids by using materials that attempt to recreate the AAP identification tests. Prepping kids in this way makes the scores unreliable to the point that some schools are simply not using them anymore. These particular tests are not meant to be prepped for and prepping results in scores that are not useful to the schools.

These threads are only about prepping for the AAP identification tests. They are not about prepping for any other type of testing, nor are they about effective ways to teach math.

More nuaunced malarky. Now we have to have the identification committees throughout the land adjudicate the legality or ethics of preparation on the basis of an identification test. Will this be at the federal level or shall will let each state do their own thing?

What rubbish.

No rubbish, and no malarky. If you read the the OP for most of these threads, they involve the AAP identification testing. Not even terribly nuanced, just fact.

Right, and here's what FCPS says about this:

Here's a link to a FCPS document that includes an explanation of why the test was changed last year:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/FAQre2012CustomizedCogAT.pdf

See fourth paragraph, first sentence:

"FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS."

Yep!

[Anonymous]

Defensive much? Or is it just that you have problems with reading comprehension?

It's fine to quiz and probe your child's intellect, experience or understanding. It's not cheating even if you read (or misread) it on the FCPS-AAP website.

If this makes you anxious or puts pressure on your or your children it's fine to desist and follow your natural inclinations.

It is not fine to impose your natural inclinations on others. I am fine with children or parents who like to read, study, play or sleep. These activities should not provoke such heightened anxiety and concern.

[Anonymous]

"FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS."

What does this bureaucratic gibberish have to do with children who prepare their educational foundation through systematic study? This is irrelevant to the discussion of children prepping for their studies and tests.

If kids stole Cogat exam papers (or SAT exam papers) then a potential crime was committed. FCPS should prosecute those concerned for theft in a court of law with due process. Studying and educational preparation is neither unethical nor a crime. Teachers, parents and their children have been doing so for decades. Please do not conflate stealing exam papers with children who are sky high academic performers who also are well schooled and prepped.

[Anonymous]

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Defensive much? Or is it just that you have problems with reading comprehension?

It's fine to quiz and probe your child's intellect, experience or understanding. It's not cheating even if you read (or misread) it on the FCPS-AAP website.

If this makes you anxious or puts pressure on your or your children it's fine to desist and follow your natural inclinations.

It is not fine to impose your natural inclinations on others. I am fine with children or parents who like to read, study, play or sleep. These activities should not provoke such heightened anxiety and concern.


Nice defense of probing child's intellect, but what does this have to do with prepping specifically for AAP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

"FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS."

What does this bureaucratic gibberish have to do with children who prepare their educational foundation through systematic study? This is irrelevant to the discussion of children prepping for their studies and tests.

If kids stole Cogat exam papers (or SAT exam papers) then a potential crime was committed. FCPS should prosecute those concerned for theft in a court of law with due process. Studying and educational preparation is neither unethical nor a crime. Teachers, parents and their children have been doing so for decades. Please do not conflate stealing exam papers with children who are sky high academic performers who also are well schooled and prepped.

But it should be unnecessary for this particular test if your kids are smart enough.

[Anonymous]

Now what do you mean by "prepping specifically" for AAP? Is this distinct from prepping "unspecifically"? Are you still referring to cheating and stealing exam/test papers? Are you referring to memorizing the answers of stolen test questions?

When I work with my children K-12 they are prepared for the study of math, science, reading and writing which included any K-12 test imaginable (AP, SCAT, SAT ERB, AAP,ACT. AMC and any other alphabet soup you can think of)? Stealing questions and memorizing answers is not the strategy here but preparation, fun, and hard work is key. My work with them was deeper than any of the alphabet soup tests you speak of? Yes, they indirectly mastered the content for any K-12 test imaginable. I hope this satisfies "prepping specifically" for every K-12 and beyond test you can dream of. Solid preparation and discipline makes your alphabet soup tests a walk in the park for children even after 12 hours of sleep the night before and green, ham and eggs the morning of as per your favorite FCPS - AAP website!

PS: We don't stop learning just because AAP exam day is tomorrow or next week. How's that to raise your paranoid anxiety and the hairs on the back of your neck.

[Anonymous]

But it should be unnecessary for this particular test if your kids are smart enough.

Wow, you still don't get it. There are some who work hard and prepare not because they seek to be just smart enough to get by. It appears to you, if one is smart enough there is no reason to prep or study. Why study or prep if you are really intelligent and gifted?

You claim Peyton was born with unique gifts as an athlete and QB but he, too, wasn't dumb enough to take your advise, since he is supremely gifted and talented enough therefore hard work and prep is unnecessary

Your "smart enough" and "unnecessary prep" mantra is too low a bar for some individuals like Peyton, Phelps, brain surgeons and pilots. Just "good enough" and "prep unnecessary" doesn't quite hack it. It work in the kitchen but not in the OR, cockpit or Peyton's place. This has nothing to do with you infatuation with giftedness and the DNA of elite professionals but everything to do with attitude and frame of mind.

There are some for whom getting by on God given ability and giftedness is not the objective or aim. They work hard and prepare no matter how low the bar or which alphabet soup test of the day presents itself in a given year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But it should be unnecessary for this particular test if your kids are smart enough.

Wow, you still don't get it. There are some who work hard and prepare not because they seek to be just smart enough to get by. It appears to you, if one is smart enough there is no reason to prep or study. Why study or prep if you are really intelligent and gifted?

You claim Peyton was born with unique gifts as an athlete and QB but he, too, wasn't dumb enough to take your advise, since he is supremely gifted and talented enough therefore hard work and prep is unnecessary

Your "smart enough" and "unnecessary prep" mantra is too low a bar for some individuals like Peyton, Phelps, brain surgeons and pilots. Just "good enough" and "prep unnecessary" doesn't quite hack it. It work in the kitchen but not in the OR, cockpit or Peyton's place. This has nothing to do with you infatuation with giftedness and the DNA of elite professionals but everything to do with attitude and frame of mind.

There are some for whom getting by on God given ability and giftedness is not the objective or aim. They work hard and prepare no matter how low the bar or which alphabet soup test of the day presents itself in a given year.

No you don't get it. Since you are so fascinated with the older Manning child, let me give an analogy using Peyton.

We want to know how far Peyton can throw the ball....How far the ball goes will be a function of the throw and the wind. If he throws 50 times in a closed stadium, the results will be meaningful. In a Hurricane, he may be able to throw the ball 100 yards down wind, or 10 yard up wind. In the storm, I could throw the ball 80 yards down wind. But inside, Peyton can throw the ball 60 years. That does not make me the better QB. The wind adds noise to the measurement. It reflects the reliability of the measurement.

Similarly, test prep for the AAP entrance exam by obtaining "the exact form of the test" by any means will severely impact the ability to measure the intelligence out of the test. Just like me throwing the football in a hurricane. I can not know how far I threw the ball, and the county can not know how much of the score was from intelligence, and how much is from prepping. (and how much was from ADD, distractions, puppies, etc). What the county is trying to measure is raw capability, not work ethic. They get that in the GBRS. And a high score on the CogAT does not make your kid smarted. It will not lead to more money. How will the county deal with this? The will ignore test scores. They will have no choice. Oh, and the county is the source on appropriate behavior in a county administered exam.

[Anonymous]

All those 7 year olds who are preparing for the AAP screening test on their own just like Peyton (incoherent??), brain surgeons and pilots (???) can have at it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But it should be unnecessary for this particular test if your kids are smart enough.

Wow, you still don't get it. There are some who work hard and prepare not because they seek to be just smart enough to get by. It appears to you, if one is smart enough there is no reason to prep or study. Why study or prep if you are really intelligent and gifted?

You claim Peyton was born with unique gifts as an athlete and QB but he, too, wasn't dumb enough to take your advise, since he is supremely gifted and talented enough therefore hard work and prep is unnecessary

Your "smart enough" and "unnecessary prep" mantra is too low a bar for some individuals like Peyton, Phelps, brain surgeons and pilots. Just "good enough" and "prep unnecessary" doesn't quite hack it. It work in the kitchen but not in the OR, cockpit or Peyton's place. This has nothing to do with you infatuation with giftedness and the DNA of elite professionals but everything to do with attitude and frame of mind.

There are some for whom getting by on God given ability and giftedness is not the objective or aim. They work hard and prepare no matter how low the bar or which alphabet soup test of the day presents itself in a given year.

No you don't get it. Since you are so fascinated with the older Manning child, let me give an analogy using Peyton.

We want to know how far Peyton can throw the ball....How far the ball goes will be a function of the throw and the wind. If he throws 50 times in a closed stadium, the results will be meaningful. In a Hurricane, he may be able to throw the ball 100 yards down wind, or 10 yard up wind. In the storm, I could throw the ball 80 yards down wind. But inside, Peyton can throw the ball 60 years. That does not make me the better QB. The wind adds noise to the measurement. It reflects the reliability of the measurement.

Similarly, test prep for the AAP entrance exam by obtaining "the exact form of the test" by any means will severely impact the ability to measure the intelligence out of the test. Just like me throwing the football in a hurricane. I can not know how far I threw the ball, and the county can not know how much of the score was from intelligence, and how much is from prepping. (and how much was from ADD, distractions, puppies, etc). What the county is trying to measure is raw capability, not work ethic. They get that in the GBRS. And a high score on the CogAT does not make your kid smarted. It will not lead to more money. How will the county deal with this? The will ignore test scores. They will have no choice. Oh, and the county is the source on appropriate behavior in a county administered exam.

+1

Parents used to gaming and bending the rules to give their kids an advantage NEVER get this.

[Anonymous]

No you don't get it. Since you are so fascinated with the older Manning child, let me give an analogy using Peyton.

We want to know how far Peyton can throw the ball....How far the ball goes will be a function of the throw and the wind. If he throws 50 times in a closed stadium, the results will be meaningful. In a Hurricane, he may be able to throw the ball 100 yards down wind, or 10 yard up wind. In the storm, I could throw the ball 80 yards down wind. But inside, Peyton can throw the ball 60 years. That does not make me the better QB. The wind adds noise to the measurement. It reflects the reliability of the measurement.

Similarly, test prep for the AAP entrance exam by obtaining "the exact form of the test" by any means will severely impact the ability to measure the intelligence out of the test. Just like me throwing the football in a hurricane. I can not know how far I threw the ball, and the county can not know how much of the score was from intelligence, and how much is from prepping. (and how much was from ADD, distractions, puppies, etc). What the county is trying to measure is raw capability, not work ethic. They get that in the GBRS. And a high score on the CogAT does not make your kid smarted. It will not lead to more money. How will the county deal with this? The will ignore test scores. They will have no choice. Oh, and the county is the source on appropriate behavior in a county administered exam.

__________________________________________________________________________________
Sounds like an excuse made by those who cannot compete on the football field, the swimming pool or the classroom. Those like Peyton, Phelps and and other high performers who work hard and prep have heard it for decades. Potential in the womb gets you no where (unless mommy and daddy have connections and generational trust funds). Even someone like Peyton understands this. That's why he preps and works hard. If one as "gifted" as Peyton and Phelps, by the poster's unabashed admission, understand this do you think these guys would not prep and work hard if their gifts were for music or math.

Excuses made by retiring flunkies signifying nothing and who fear discipline in their lives.

If your kids want to be like Peyton they WILL prepare and work hard just like high performing academicians. This has nothing to do with theft, cheating or genes. It's called discipline.

Prep is paramount in Peyton's Place. Try it, you'll be better off for it no matter your bloody IQ or how much you bench press! I am surprised FCPS doesn't know this and preach this to its all its citizens. But, don't forget to get a good night's sleep and eat hearty green ham and eggs in the morning. Peyton does so.

[Anonymous]

Similarly, test prep for the AAP entrance exam by obtaining "the exact form of the test" by any means will severely impact the ability to measure the intelligence out of the test. Just like me throwing the football in a hurricane. I can not know how far I threw the ball, and the county can not know how much of the score was from intelligence, and how much is from prepping. (and how much was from ADD, distractions, puppies, etc). What the county is trying to measure is raw capability, not work ethic. They get that in the GBRS. And a high score on the CogAT does not make your kid smarted. It will not lead to more money. How will the county deal with this? The will ignore test scores. They will have no choice. Oh, and the county is the source on appropriate behavior in a county administered exam.

Go to the farm or zoo in Papua New Guinea if you are trying to measure raw capability, if you can. There's nothing raw to measure in a County full of schools, tutors, camps, summer schools and digital computers. You must be kidding. Don't you know any raw measure is biased from all these confounders? Peyton knows this and he still works hard and preps at the age of 4 and 40.

[Anonymous]

clueless....

and how the heck did we get back in the womb? does your type of prep eliminate the ability for higher level thinking?