NYT: "The Trouble with Men"

[Anonymous]

The apotheosis of modern feminism was on the WNBA All Stars' t shirts. PAY US WHAT YOU OWE US.

A delusional sense of self righteousness and entitlement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

You may handle the mental load in your family, but you cannot speak for everyone else. You wear your blinders and don't see that millions of women have to deal with men who don't do all that stuff daily? Do you not see how your situation may be different?

So, he can’t speak for others but you can. I think I’ve got that right …

[Anonymous]

I really hate how the New York Times is at the moment one of the strongest (and few) voices able to reliably report on the trump administration at a high standard, yet they undermine their credibility by posting far-left man hating crap like this.

It's articles like this that got Trump elected. What are they doing? This stuff alienates the vast majority of men and women. It's so embarrassing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

You may handle the mental load in your family, but you cannot speak for everyone else. You wear your blinders and don't see that millions of women have to deal with men who don't do all that stuff daily? Do you not see how your situation may be different?

So, he can’t speak for others but you can. I think I’ve got that right …

Me? No, I'm not speaking for anyone. I'm reiterating their stories. You think women made up this "mental labor" ish just to complain about their husbands, or are they just married to men who leave it all to their wives? You are discounting millions of womens experiences - who have posted about it, even on this website. I 100% believe he does all of that, and I imagine his wife is SO thankful, it's truly amazing when men are able to step up and take care of these things for their family.

As I say, I'm not speaking for everyone. In my own experience, I dropped the rope a bit and my husband complained at first, but then picked up the slack and it has noticeably improved our lives. But to deny it's a real phenomenon is to deny the reality of many women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

You may handle the mental load in your family, but you cannot speak for everyone else. You wear your blinders and don't see that millions of women have to deal with men who don't do all that stuff daily? Do you not see how your situation may be different?

So, he can’t speak for others but you can. I think I’ve got that right …

Me? No, I'm not speaking for anyone. I'm reiterating their stories. You think women made up this "mental labor" ish just to complain about their husbands, or are they just married to men who leave it all to their wives? You are discounting millions of womens experiences - who have posted about it, even on this website. I 100% believe he does all of that, and I imagine his wife is SO thankful, it's truly amazing when men are able to step up and take care of these things for their family.

As I say, I'm not speaking for everyone. In my own experience, I dropped the rope a bit and my husband complained at first, but then picked up the slack and it has noticeably improved our lives. But to deny it's a real phenomenon is to deny the reality of many women.

Well, then I guess he’s just relating his and other men’s stories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Woe is you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Men don't do more because they work more hours than women, even when both are employed full time. When you add up paid and unpaid work, it evens out. Everybody is working about equally, on average.

Also, it's ludicrous to suggest that no one on this site says it's hard. It's a constant theme to complain about the "mental load" of making camp arrangements and doctor's appointments. If it's not hard why would you complain? I can't imagine a person who has ever worked hard in their life complaining about making a doctor's appointment. And yes whatever list of tasks you're about to turn out, I've done it all without any help. My wife works and plays board games with the kids and that's it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Woe is you.

Whoop there it is. And that attitude is why there is a male loneliness epidemic. You can't even spare a drop of empathy in hearing about womens' struggles.

So, again, tell me why women would bother to sign up for a life with some schmuck who doesn't care about her, her struggles or her life when it's actually just 1 less (man) child to take care of in her life? Why would anyone want to tie themselves to someone who shrugs and says "woe is you"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really hate how the New York Times is at the moment one of the strongest (and few) voices able to reliably report on the trump administration at a high standard, yet they undermine their credibility by posting far-left man hating crap like this.

It's articles like this that got Trump elected. What are they doing? This stuff alienates the vast majority of men and women. It's so embarrassing.

Absolutely agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Men don't do more because they work more hours than women, even when both are employed full time. When you add up paid and unpaid work, it evens out. Everybody is working about equally, on average.

Also, it's ludicrous to suggest that no one on this site says it's hard. It's a constant theme to complain about the "mental load" of making camp arrangements and doctor's appointments. If it's not hard why would you complain? I can't imagine a person who has ever worked hard in their life complaining about making a doctor's appointment. And yes whatever list of tasks you're about to turn out, I've done it all without any help. My wife works and plays board games with the kids and that's it.

False.

https://thegepi.org/the-free-time-gender-gap/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-extra-unpaid-hours-full-time-jobs/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Men don't do more because they work more hours than women, even when both are employed full time. When you add up paid and unpaid work, it evens out. Everybody is working about equally, on average.

Also, it's ludicrous to suggest that no one on this site says it's hard. It's a constant theme to complain about the "mental load" of making camp arrangements and doctor's appointments. If it's not hard why would you complain? I can't imagine a person who has ever worked hard in their life complaining about making a doctor's appointment. And yes whatever list of tasks you're about to turn out, I've done it all without any help. My wife works and plays board games with the kids and that's it.

Your wife sounds like almost every father.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Men don't do more because they work more hours than women, even when both are employed full time. When you add up paid and unpaid work, it evens out. Everybody is working about equally, on average.

Also, it's ludicrous to suggest that no one on this site says it's hard. It's a constant theme to complain about the "mental load" of making camp arrangements and doctor's appointments. If it's not hard why would you complain? I can't imagine a person who has ever worked hard in their life complaining about making a doctor's appointment. And yes whatever list of tasks you're about to turn out, I've done it all without any help. My wife works and plays board games with the kids and that's it.

Yeah, roofing, laying flooring, landscaping = making appointments

GMAFB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Woe is you.

Whoop there it is. And that attitude is why there is a male loneliness epidemic. You can't even spare a drop of empathy in hearing about womens' struggles.

So, again, tell me why women would bother to sign up for a life with some schmuck who doesn't care about her, her struggles or her life when it's actually just 1 less (man) child to take care of in her life? Why would anyone want to tie themselves to someone who shrugs and says "woe is you"?

This. No one wants to give someone like that above poster 50% of their child’s time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Woe is you.

Whoop there it is. And that attitude is why there is a male loneliness epidemic. You can't even spare a drop of empathy in hearing about womens' struggles.

So, again, tell me why women would bother to sign up for a life with some schmuck who doesn't care about her, her struggles or her life when it's actually just 1 less (man) child to take care of in her life? Why would anyone want to tie themselves to someone who shrugs and says "woe is you"?

Because I don’t constantly whine about my situation.