How does a judge decide custody when all the factors to be considered seem equal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Girlfriend shouldn’t be your babysitter, not appropriate.

+1 your really need to find an afterschool or daycare with extended hours. Also shuffling your daughter off to your mom a few times a month is not necessarily something she would have to agree too. You are basically saying for the majority of your awake custody hours your daughter is with your mom or girlfriend. And that’s because you don’t want to pay your ex wife more. You obviously have a tight work schedule. Negotiate with your ex to give her more custody with the caveat that she get a job, even part time. Play the long game and if you get her working you can adjust child support especially once kid is in school. Back off the solo grandma visits for now just have her come when you can all spend time together. It diesnt look good and I’m surprised your lawyer hasn’t mentioned that. Find a way to work this out. Neither of you will like the judges take on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the eeriest thread to read. It's like my life story, only written 35 years later. Everything is identical - I was never married to my daughter's mom, we parented amicably for the first two years until I met my now-wife, ex-GF filed for custody (and threatened to move out of Maryland), even the pot-smoking in the background (which was illegal then). All I wanted was to keep the 50/50 plan that we'd respected since the mid-80s - which, incidentally, was absolutely not the norm at that time.

If you want a crystal ball, here's how it worked for me, a 66-year-old dad with a grown-up 39-year-old daughter. I was lucky to find a forward-thinking attorney back in the day, and I did exactly what you are doing. DD's mom wanted sole custody, and I requested to stick with 50/50. The court case went on for 18 months, and I had zero money at the time. I had to borrow funds. In the end, the judge awarded me sole physical custody with joint legal custody.

DD's mom appealed, saying I'd never requested sole custody. The judge responded that DD's mom was the one who'd refused joint custody, while I'd been willing and happy to continue with it, so he'd had to make a decision. He went with the parent who was most willing to facilitate the relationship with the other parent.

From that time forward, from the time DD was 4 until she was 18, it was a relief. I realized it wasn't in my daughter's best interest to keep her from her mom - the judge had given DD's mom very little time in his orders - and I offered to continue with 50/50. We alternated weeks until DD graduated from high school. DD's address was with me, we shared joint legal custody, and I didn't pay child support any longer.

This was all a long time ago, but I had to weigh in because the coincidences are boggling my mind.

And now DD is 39. Her mom long ago moved out of the state, but DD lives 30 minutes from me. She has a close relationship with her mom and a close relationship with me as well. My wife and I have been happily married for 30+ years with two grown kids of our own. All three siblings are tight.

The rockiest time was DD's senior year of high school, for some reason, when she became prickly. I think it was the "soiling the nest" phenomenon before heading to college.

Please keep extremely detailed records. Be aware your ex-GF is surely recording every conversation. Continue to be balanced and accommodating, and enjoy the love and support of your fiancee. Good luck!

That's pretty terrible to take your child away from their mom. Sounds like you pushed her out for your wife.

You can just eff right off with that nonsense.

He is terrible.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:At age 5, the kid is or soon will be starting school and probably needs one home base.

The parent with no job and no health care should focus on those things, not taking custody.

She is not going to get full custody, it's probably going to continue at the status quo 50/50 , there may be rofr ordered at some time length perhaps for 8 or 12 hours.

The question OP is asking is about legal custody. He says he is pretty sure the 50/50 schedule isn’t going to change either way.

We got in the weeds talking about ROFR.

OP wants to know, given the facts he’s presented, who a judge will grant legal custody to which is the ability to unilaterally make medical and education decisions. In OP’s state it can’t be joint legal custody unless both parties agree, and Mom won’t agree.

He said right in the first post, that the mom wants to reduce his time to every other weekend.

We've only gotten the dad's side of the story here, and while I think he probably has a case, I do see some red flags on both sides.

She wants to, but she’s not going to. 50/50 parenting time isn’t going to change.

What’s up in the air is matter of legal custody which in OP’s state is completely separate from parenting time.

Right. Based on stuff that Dad has said, I think he has a stronger case but like I said, I do see red flags from him as well as the mom so, I think the judge may end up ordering stuff that neither of them are super happy with.

OP here. What are my red flags? It would be genuinely helpful for me to know.

Re: the ROFR thing. It's not that I don't want my ex spending as much time as she can with our child, it's the coordination and communication that ROFR would require since I do need a few hours of childcare quite frequently due to my work schedule.

Say she can't make pickup one day. At my work, I'm seeing patients back to back all day with no cell service and no guarantee to get a message through to me. So she'd need to reach out to the only people I have on standby for childcare, my mom and my girlfriend. Neither of them will deal with her because of her disrespect towards them. She's said horrible things to my mother, harassed my girlfriend with Facebook messages trying to convince my girlfriend to be friends with her, accosted my girlfriend with a forced conversation at the courthouse lobby after a hearing, shouted out the car window at her, talked about all of us on social media, etc. They have her blocked and will not have face to face interactions with her on advice of my counsel.

So then she'd need to arrange her own childcare during my time and then I have to talk to my ex and figure out where my kid is and go get them from wherever. We have a high conflict situation obviously and communicating with her is a drain on my mental health and I don't want it in my life. Maybe that's selfish, but I have been a better, more present parent since I started putting up firm boundaries. It is so much more consistent and less stress for everyone (especially the child, who is a wreck during every single goodbye with my ex) if my girlfriend or my mom picks up our child from preschool to come home and get started on the afternoon/evening routine until I get home a few hours later. ROFR introduces potential for so much chaos that our child does not need in their life.

Another reason I don't want ROFR is because my ex will try to use it to prevent my mom from spending time with our child. My mom was our full time nanny from the time our child was 12 weeks old until our separation almost two years later. They have an extremely close bond and my ex can't stand that I arrange for a sleepover at Grandma's house pretty much every weekend during my parenting time (so--two, sometimes three sleepovers a month). My ex now hates my mom and hates that our child is so bonded to her. I will not agree to a parenting plan that will give my ex any room to interfere with that because I know it's not in our child's best interest to lose my mom's presence in her life.

I'm happy to pay appropriate child support. What I'm not happy to do is be the only parenting working and pay child support calculated based on her having zero income. I would like her income to to be calculated at her potential income, as at her last job she made very close to what I make but she has made no effort to get a similar job.

If my ex had more stability, I would even be willing to consider her having majority parenting time with me having more of an every other weekend type schedule since our child will be starting school next year. But at this time, she has been jobless for a year, has apparently zero income (per her support declaration document filled out a week ago), and is now living in a room with our child because I assume she could no longer afford rent their house. I'm pretty sure me getting more parenting time is not on the table either, so the best I can do is maintain the 50/50 status quo. At this time I don't think it's a great idea for her to have more parenting time as she should focus on getting consistent employment.

Sounds like you aren't that available as a parent if your girlfriend and mom are that heavily involved. You sound like a nightmare.

Interesting. I hadn’t considered that working a 36 hour work week could be perceived as “not that available” but I will have to keep that in mind in court.

Then, what else is going on if you cannot get your child after work. Use after care or a babysitter.

Nothing else is going on. Preschool is open until 5:30. I work until 6:30. So my girlfriend typically grabs her at 4:00 pm to take her home (where the three of us live together) to hang out for a little bit. Or less often, my mom. I disagree that it would be better to hire a babysitter to do this instead.

You should offer the time to mom first.

Says who? That’s good for no one except mom. It’s not good for the preschooler.

Of course it’s better for the child to be with the mother! Wtf

Its always better for a child to be with a parent over a girlfriend or boyfriend.

This isn't true. A lot of mothers are unfit.

lol mothers are often ‘unfit’ or become ‘unfit’ when a guy gets a new GF caretaker and decides he doesn’t want to pay child support. Judges see this ALL THE TIME. they aren’t dumb

This guy is in the wrong but no different from moms taking full custody for more child support.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:At age 5, the kid is or soon will be starting school and probably needs one home base.

The parent with no job and no health care should focus on those things, not taking custody.

She is not going to get full custody, it's probably going to continue at the status quo 50/50 , there may be rofr ordered at some time length perhaps for 8 or 12 hours.

The question OP is asking is about legal custody. He says he is pretty sure the 50/50 schedule isn’t going to change either way.

We got in the weeds talking about ROFR.

OP wants to know, given the facts he’s presented, who a judge will grant legal custody to which is the ability to unilaterally make medical and education decisions. In OP’s state it can’t be joint legal custody unless both parties agree, and Mom won’t agree.

He said right in the first post, that the mom wants to reduce his time to every other weekend.

We've only gotten the dad's side of the story here, and while I think he probably has a case, I do see some red flags on both sides.

She wants to, but she’s not going to. 50/50 parenting time isn’t going to change.

What’s up in the air is matter of legal custody which in OP’s state is completely separate from parenting time.

Right. Based on stuff that Dad has said, I think he has a stronger case but like I said, I do see red flags from him as well as the mom so, I think the judge may end up ordering stuff that neither of them are super happy with.

OP here. What are my red flags? It would be genuinely helpful for me to know.

Re: the ROFR thing. It's not that I don't want my ex spending as much time as she can with our child, it's the coordination and communication that ROFR would require since I do need a few hours of childcare quite frequently due to my work schedule.

Say she can't make pickup one day. At my work, I'm seeing patients back to back all day with no cell service and no guarantee to get a message through to me. So she'd need to reach out to the only people I have on standby for childcare, my mom and my girlfriend. Neither of them will deal with her because of her disrespect towards them. She's said horrible things to my mother, harassed my girlfriend with Facebook messages trying to convince my girlfriend to be friends with her, accosted my girlfriend with a forced conversation at the courthouse lobby after a hearing, shouted out the car window at her, talked about all of us on social media, etc. They have her blocked and will not have face to face interactions with her on advice of my counsel.

So then she'd need to arrange her own childcare during my time and then I have to talk to my ex and figure out where my kid is and go get them from wherever. We have a high conflict situation obviously and communicating with her is a drain on my mental health and I don't want it in my life. Maybe that's selfish, but I have been a better, more present parent since I started putting up firm boundaries. It is so much more consistent and less stress for everyone (especially the child, who is a wreck during every single goodbye with my ex) if my girlfriend or my mom picks up our child from preschool to come home and get started on the afternoon/evening routine until I get home a few hours later. ROFR introduces potential for so much chaos that our child does not need in their life.

Another reason I don't want ROFR is because my ex will try to use it to prevent my mom from spending time with our child. My mom was our full time nanny from the time our child was 12 weeks old until our separation almost two years later. They have an extremely close bond and my ex can't stand that I arrange for a sleepover at Grandma's house pretty much every weekend during my parenting time (so--two, sometimes three sleepovers a month). My ex now hates my mom and hates that our child is so bonded to her. I will not agree to a parenting plan that will give my ex any room to interfere with that because I know it's not in our child's best interest to lose my mom's presence in her life.

I'm happy to pay appropriate child support. What I'm not happy to do is be the only parenting working and pay child support calculated based on her having zero income. I would like her income to to be calculated at her potential income, as at her last job she made very close to what I make but she has made no effort to get a similar job.

If my ex had more stability, I would even be willing to consider her having majority parenting time with me having more of an every other weekend type schedule since our child will be starting school next year. But at this time, she has been jobless for a year, has apparently zero income (per her support declaration document filled out a week ago), and is now living in a room with our child because I assume she could no longer afford rent their house. I'm pretty sure me getting more parenting time is not on the table either, so the best I can do is maintain the 50/50 status quo. At this time I don't think it's a great idea for her to have more parenting time as she should focus on getting consistent employment.

Sounds like you aren't that available as a parent if your girlfriend and mom are that heavily involved. You sound like a nightmare.

Interesting. I hadn’t considered that working a 36 hour work week could be perceived as “not that available” but I will have to keep that in mind in court.

Then, what else is going on if you cannot get your child after work. Use after care or a babysitter.

Nothing else is going on. Preschool is open until 5:30. I work until 6:30. So my girlfriend typically grabs her at 4:00 pm to take her home (where the three of us live together) to hang out for a little bit. Or less often, my mom. I disagree that it would be better to hire a babysitter to do this instead.

You should offer the time to mom first.

Says who? That’s good for no one except mom. It’s not good for the preschooler.

Of course it’s better for the child to be with the mother! Wtf

Its always better for a child to be with a parent over a girlfriend or boyfriend.

This isn't true. A lot of mothers are unfit.

lol mothers are often ‘unfit’ or become ‘unfit’ when a guy gets a new GF caretaker and decides he doesn’t want to pay child support. Judges see this ALL THE TIME. they aren’t dumb

This guy is in the wrong but no different from moms taking full custody for more child support.

How does a mom 'take' full custody? 50/50 is the most common way nowadays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Girlfriend shouldn’t be your babysitter, not appropriate.

+1 your really need to find an afterschool or daycare with extended hours. Also shuffling your daughter off to your mom a few times a month is not necessarily something she would have to agree too. You are basically saying for the majority of your awake custody hours your daughter is with your mom or girlfriend. And that’s because you don’t want to pay your ex wife more. You obviously have a tight work schedule. Negotiate with your ex to give her more custody with the caveat that she get a job, even part time. Play the long game and if you get her working you can adjust child support especially once kid is in school. Back off the solo grandma visits for now just have her come when you can all spend time together. It diesnt look good and I’m surprised your lawyer hasn’t mentioned that. Find a way to work this out. Neither of you will like the judges take on it.

This is nuts. Extended daycare would be okay, but letting the kid come home with girlfriend or grandma in the afternoon is not? Please explain your reasoning here.

He doesn’t have to “back off” solo grandma visits. He has every right to let the child have visits with grandma during his time and mom doesn’t have to agree. I can’t imagine a judge interfering with that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:At age 5, the kid is or soon will be starting school and probably needs one home base.

The parent with no job and no health care should focus on those things, not taking custody.

She is not going to get full custody, it's probably going to continue at the status quo 50/50 , there may be rofr ordered at some time length perhaps for 8 or 12 hours.

The question OP is asking is about legal custody. He says he is pretty sure the 50/50 schedule isn’t going to change either way.

We got in the weeds talking about ROFR.

OP wants to know, given the facts he’s presented, who a judge will grant legal custody to which is the ability to unilaterally make medical and education decisions. In OP’s state it can’t be joint legal custody unless both parties agree, and Mom won’t agree.

He said right in the first post, that the mom wants to reduce his time to every other weekend.

We've only gotten the dad's side of the story here, and while I think he probably has a case, I do see some red flags on both sides.

She wants to, but she’s not going to. 50/50 parenting time isn’t going to change.

What’s up in the air is matter of legal custody which in OP’s state is completely separate from parenting time.

Right. Based on stuff that Dad has said, I think he has a stronger case but like I said, I do see red flags from him as well as the mom so, I think the judge may end up ordering stuff that neither of them are super happy with.

OP here. What are my red flags? It would be genuinely helpful for me to know.

Re: the ROFR thing. It's not that I don't want my ex spending as much time as she can with our child, it's the coordination and communication that ROFR would require since I do need a few hours of childcare quite frequently due to my work schedule.

Say she can't make pickup one day. At my work, I'm seeing patients back to back all day with no cell service and no guarantee to get a message through to me. So she'd need to reach out to the only people I have on standby for childcare, my mom and my girlfriend. Neither of them will deal with her because of her disrespect towards them. She's said horrible things to my mother, harassed my girlfriend with Facebook messages trying to convince my girlfriend to be friends with her, accosted my girlfriend with a forced conversation at the courthouse lobby after a hearing, shouted out the car window at her, talked about all of us on social media, etc. They have her blocked and will not have face to face interactions with her on advice of my counsel.

So then she'd need to arrange her own childcare during my time and then I have to talk to my ex and figure out where my kid is and go get them from wherever. We have a high conflict situation obviously and communicating with her is a drain on my mental health and I don't want it in my life. Maybe that's selfish, but I have been a better, more present parent since I started putting up firm boundaries. It is so much more consistent and less stress for everyone (especially the child, who is a wreck during every single goodbye with my ex) if my girlfriend or my mom picks up our child from preschool to come home and get started on the afternoon/evening routine until I get home a few hours later. ROFR introduces potential for so much chaos that our child does not need in their life.

Another reason I don't want ROFR is because my ex will try to use it to prevent my mom from spending time with our child. My mom was our full time nanny from the time our child was 12 weeks old until our separation almost two years later. They have an extremely close bond and my ex can't stand that I arrange for a sleepover at Grandma's house pretty much every weekend during my parenting time (so--two, sometimes three sleepovers a month). My ex now hates my mom and hates that our child is so bonded to her. I will not agree to a parenting plan that will give my ex any room to interfere with that because I know it's not in our child's best interest to lose my mom's presence in her life.

I'm happy to pay appropriate child support. What I'm not happy to do is be the only parenting working and pay child support calculated based on her having zero income. I would like her income to to be calculated at her potential income, as at her last job she made very close to what I make but she has made no effort to get a similar job.

If my ex had more stability, I would even be willing to consider her having majority parenting time with me having more of an every other weekend type schedule since our child will be starting school next year. But at this time, she has been jobless for a year, has apparently zero income (per her support declaration document filled out a week ago), and is now living in a room with our child because I assume she could no longer afford rent their house. I'm pretty sure me getting more parenting time is not on the table either, so the best I can do is maintain the 50/50 status quo. At this time I don't think it's a great idea for her to have more parenting time as she should focus on getting consistent employment.

Sounds like you aren't that available as a parent if your girlfriend and mom are that heavily involved. You sound like a nightmare.

Interesting. I hadn’t considered that working a 36 hour work week could be perceived as “not that available” but I will have to keep that in mind in court.

Then, what else is going on if you cannot get your child after work. Use after care or a babysitter.

Nothing else is going on. Preschool is open until 5:30. I work until 6:30. So my girlfriend typically grabs her at 4:00 pm to take her home (where the three of us live together) to hang out for a little bit. Or less often, my mom. I disagree that it would be better to hire a babysitter to do this instead.

You should offer the time to mom first.

Says who? That’s good for no one except mom. It’s not good for the preschooler.

Of course it’s better for the child to be with the mother! Wtf

Its always better for a child to be with a parent over a girlfriend or boyfriend.

No it’s not. If as a parent you make it your mission to ensure your child spends no 1:1 time with your ex’s new partner, that is an extremely vindictive and damaging and uncooperative approach and uses the child to punish the parent. And as has been explained over and over in this thread, OP’s ex wants to used right of first refusal as a way to disrupt a stable day. The ex has zero legal entitlement to ROFR for short time periods.

Typically, it is better for the child to be with the biological parents. Time with the ex's new partner is not an important factor (I have a very amicable relationship with my ex, and time with his g/f is something I and my dc care nothing about). However in this case, it might be best for ROFR to be set up with a longer timeframe (like, 8 hours) because according to OP, the child gets upset at frequent exchanges. But, remember, ROFR works both ways, so mom can't leave dc with New Man, Friend/w teen, or whomever either-which is also probably best for the dd.

It's really about what is in the child's best interest, not OP's, not mom's, certainly not the g/f's.

But there’s a reason that ROFR is not an automatic part of court ordered custody agreements: because the idea is that the parents cannot get along and need to split parenting. Generally each parent gets to decide what to do on their own custody time and that includes things like after-care and babysitting. Having to talk to an ex every time you have to use childcare on your own time vastly increases the friction points, transitions for the kid, and increases the chances for conflict. Without extenuating circumstances like a very young baby or a parent that regularly uses babysitters all day, it’s a bad idea. Particularly if the care (as here) is necessary for job reasons and needs to be stable.

So if they set it to a longer time frame than aftercare, like 8 hrs or so, it won't affect daily aftercare, but will apply for longer times. It's in the best interest of the child to spend time with their parents. ROFR is included in many standard parenting plans (they're called 'parenting plans' now).

OP is going to court with a contentious ex. There’s no reason to give the ex more ability to interfere. The potential conflict that would result is worse than any theoretical benefit to the child.

She may be contentious (according to him) but also according to him, she's fit to parent. So if the rofr time was set long enough that there would not be interference in aftercare, then it is in the child's best interest to spend time with her parent/s. This works both ways, in the father's interest as well, the mom will have to offer him rofr.

If OP has a good lawyer and the judge listens there’s no way she’ll get ROFR. If she wanted to get OP to agree voluntarily to it, she kind of chose the wrong tactic. This woman has demonstrated she is more interested in strife than her child’s best interests, so the actual best interests here are to create the clearest possible boundaries for her to follow. That means a crystal clear, no changes custody schedule.

Nonsense. ROFR is common.

ROFR is not usually granted when both parents don't agree to have it mutually in the parenting plan.

It is certainly not usually granted without both parties agreeing when it is over a matter of a few hours due to a work schedule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Girlfriend shouldn’t be your babysitter, not appropriate.

+1 your really need to find an afterschool or daycare with extended hours. Also shuffling your daughter off to your mom a few times a month is not necessarily something she would have to agree too. You are basically saying for the majority of your awake custody hours your daughter is with your mom or girlfriend. And that’s because you don’t want to pay your ex wife more. You obviously have a tight work schedule. Negotiate with your ex to give her more custody with the caveat that she get a job, even part time. Play the long game and if you get her working you can adjust child support especially once kid is in school. Back off the solo grandma visits for now just have her come when you can all spend time together. It diesnt look good and I’m surprised your lawyer hasn’t mentioned that. Find a way to work this out. Neither of you will like the judges take on it.

This is nuts. Extended daycare would be okay, but letting the kid come home with girlfriend or grandma in the afternoon is not? Please explain your reasoning here.

He doesn’t have to “back off” solo grandma visits. He has every right to let the child have visits with grandma during his time and mom doesn’t have to agree. I can’t imagine a judge interfering with that.

ex will say his job hours make him unavailable for childcare for 50/50 custody. And ex is right. He has an unpredictable schedule and sometimes works nights and weekends apparently. He’s relying on his girlfriend (who could be transitory or not) and his mom to be the primary caregivers during his custody time. Ex can make the case she is better suited to be stable home pretty easily.

But really they should both keep it out of court, because it’s a gamble and expensive and rarely in the best interest of kid. Op should use his bargaining chip (she wants more time) to get her to get a job and if so he will agree to 60/40. He’s fighting for something he can’t even handle and it’s going to be very transparent that it’s more about the money than his kids best interest.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:At age 5, the kid is or soon will be starting school and probably needs one home base.

The parent with no job and no health care should focus on those things, not taking custody.

She is not going to get full custody, it's probably going to continue at the status quo 50/50 , there may be rofr ordered at some time length perhaps for 8 or 12 hours.

The question OP is asking is about legal custody. He says he is pretty sure the 50/50 schedule isn’t going to change either way.

We got in the weeds talking about ROFR.

OP wants to know, given the facts he’s presented, who a judge will grant legal custody to which is the ability to unilaterally make medical and education decisions. In OP’s state it can’t be joint legal custody unless both parties agree, and Mom won’t agree.

He said right in the first post, that the mom wants to reduce his time to every other weekend.

We've only gotten the dad's side of the story here, and while I think he probably has a case, I do see some red flags on both sides.

She wants to, but she’s not going to. 50/50 parenting time isn’t going to change.

What’s up in the air is matter of legal custody which in OP’s state is completely separate from parenting time.

Right. Based on stuff that Dad has said, I think he has a stronger case but like I said, I do see red flags from him as well as the mom so, I think the judge may end up ordering stuff that neither of them are super happy with.

OP here. What are my red flags? It would be genuinely helpful for me to know.

Re: the ROFR thing. It's not that I don't want my ex spending as much time as she can with our child, it's the coordination and communication that ROFR would require since I do need a few hours of childcare quite frequently due to my work schedule.

Say she can't make pickup one day. At my work, I'm seeing patients back to back all day with no cell service and no guarantee to get a message through to me. So she'd need to reach out to the only people I have on standby for childcare, my mom and my girlfriend. Neither of them will deal with her because of her disrespect towards them. She's said horrible things to my mother, harassed my girlfriend with Facebook messages trying to convince my girlfriend to be friends with her, accosted my girlfriend with a forced conversation at the courthouse lobby after a hearing, shouted out the car window at her, talked about all of us on social media, etc. They have her blocked and will not have face to face interactions with her on advice of my counsel.

So then she'd need to arrange her own childcare during my time and then I have to talk to my ex and figure out where my kid is and go get them from wherever. We have a high conflict situation obviously and communicating with her is a drain on my mental health and I don't want it in my life. Maybe that's selfish, but I have been a better, more present parent since I started putting up firm boundaries. It is so much more consistent and less stress for everyone (especially the child, who is a wreck during every single goodbye with my ex) if my girlfriend or my mom picks up our child from preschool to come home and get started on the afternoon/evening routine until I get home a few hours later. ROFR introduces potential for so much chaos that our child does not need in their life.

Another reason I don't want ROFR is because my ex will try to use it to prevent my mom from spending time with our child. My mom was our full time nanny from the time our child was 12 weeks old until our separation almost two years later. They have an extremely close bond and my ex can't stand that I arrange for a sleepover at Grandma's house pretty much every weekend during my parenting time (so--two, sometimes three sleepovers a month). My ex now hates my mom and hates that our child is so bonded to her. I will not agree to a parenting plan that will give my ex any room to interfere with that because I know it's not in our child's best interest to lose my mom's presence in her life.

I'm happy to pay appropriate child support. What I'm not happy to do is be the only parenting working and pay child support calculated based on her having zero income. I would like her income to to be calculated at her potential income, as at her last job she made very close to what I make but she has made no effort to get a similar job.

If my ex had more stability, I would even be willing to consider her having majority parenting time with me having more of an every other weekend type schedule since our child will be starting school next year. But at this time, she has been jobless for a year, has apparently zero income (per her support declaration document filled out a week ago), and is now living in a room with our child because I assume she could no longer afford rent their house. I'm pretty sure me getting more parenting time is not on the table either, so the best I can do is maintain the 50/50 status quo. At this time I don't think it's a great idea for her to have more parenting time as she should focus on getting consistent employment.

Sounds like you aren't that available as a parent if your girlfriend and mom are that heavily involved. You sound like a nightmare.

Interesting. I hadn’t considered that working a 36 hour work week could be perceived as “not that available” but I will have to keep that in mind in court.

Then, what else is going on if you cannot get your child after work. Use after care or a babysitter.

Nothing else is going on. Preschool is open until 5:30. I work until 6:30. So my girlfriend typically grabs her at 4:00 pm to take her home (where the three of us live together) to hang out for a little bit. Or less often, my mom. I disagree that it would be better to hire a babysitter to do this instead.

You should offer the time to mom first.

Says who? That’s good for no one except mom. It’s not good for the preschooler.

Of course it’s better for the child to be with the mother! Wtf

Its always better for a child to be with a parent over a girlfriend or boyfriend.

This isn't true. A lot of mothers are unfit.

lol mothers are often ‘unfit’ or become ‘unfit’ when a guy gets a new GF caretaker and decides he doesn’t want to pay child support. Judges see this ALL THE TIME. they aren’t dumb

This guy is in the wrong but no different from moms taking full custody for more child support.

You are ridiculous. You do know that ‘taking custody’ also comes with the responsibility of raising a child, right? A 24/7 job. You idiot guys who think it’s this easy peasy thing are truly morons. And then you get even more nuts trying to track every dollar your ex spends bc she’s not spending it as you see fit. No surprise you’re divorced

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Girlfriend shouldn’t be your babysitter, not appropriate.

+1 your really need to find an afterschool or daycare with extended hours. Also shuffling your daughter off to your mom a few times a month is not necessarily something she would have to agree too. You are basically saying for the majority of your awake custody hours your daughter is with your mom or girlfriend. And that’s because you don’t want to pay your ex wife more. You obviously have a tight work schedule. Negotiate with your ex to give her more custody with the caveat that she get a job, even part time. Play the long game and if you get her working you can adjust child support especially once kid is in school. Back off the solo grandma visits for now just have her come when you can all spend time together. It diesnt look good and I’m surprised your lawyer hasn’t mentioned that. Find a way to work this out. Neither of you will like the judges take on it.

Absolutely not. OP should keep his own mother from babysitting just because his ex is a vengeful and unstable person?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Girlfriend shouldn’t be your babysitter, not appropriate.

+1 your really need to find an afterschool or daycare with extended hours. Also shuffling your daughter off to your mom a few times a month is not necessarily something she would have to agree too. You are basically saying for the majority of your awake custody hours your daughter is with your mom or girlfriend. And that’s because you don’t want to pay your ex wife more. You obviously have a tight work schedule. Negotiate with your ex to give her more custody with the caveat that she get a job, even part time. Play the long game and if you get her working you can adjust child support especially once kid is in school. Back off the solo grandma visits for now just have her come when you can all spend time together. It diesnt look good and I’m surprised your lawyer hasn’t mentioned that. Find a way to work this out. Neither of you will like the judges take on it.

This is nuts. Extended daycare would be okay, but letting the kid come home with girlfriend or grandma in the afternoon is not? Please explain your reasoning here.

He doesn’t have to “back off” solo grandma visits. He has every right to let the child have visits with grandma during his time and mom doesn’t have to agree. I can’t imagine a judge interfering with that.

ex will say his job hours make him unavailable for childcare for 50/50 custody. And ex is right. He has an unpredictable schedule and sometimes works nights and weekends apparently. He’s relying on his girlfriend (who could be transitory or not) and his mom to be the primary caregivers during his custody time. Ex can make the case she is better suited to be stable home pretty easily.

But really they should both keep it out of court, because it’s a gamble and expensive and rarely in the best interest of kid. Op should use his bargaining chip (she wants more time) to get her to get a job and if so he will agree to 60/40. He’s fighting for something he can’t even handle and it’s going to be very transparent that it’s more about the money than his kids best interest.

How does having your kid in aftercare for a few hours until you return from work equate to being “unable” to exercise custody?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Girlfriend shouldn’t be your babysitter, not appropriate.

+1 your really need to find an afterschool or daycare with extended hours. Also shuffling your daughter off to your mom a few times a month is not necessarily something she would have to agree too. You are basically saying for the majority of your awake custody hours your daughter is with your mom or girlfriend. And that’s because you don’t want to pay your ex wife more. You obviously have a tight work schedule. Negotiate with your ex to give her more custody with the caveat that she get a job, even part time. Play the long game and if you get her working you can adjust child support especially once kid is in school. Back off the solo grandma visits for now just have her come when you can all spend time together. It diesnt look good and I’m surprised your lawyer hasn’t mentioned that. Find a way to work this out. Neither of you will like the judges take on it.

This is nuts. Extended daycare would be okay, but letting the kid come home with girlfriend or grandma in the afternoon is not? Please explain your reasoning here.

He doesn’t have to “back off” solo grandma visits. He has every right to let the child have visits with grandma during his time and mom doesn’t have to agree. I can’t imagine a judge interfering with that.

ex will say his job hours make him unavailable for childcare for 50/50 custody. And ex is right. He has an unpredictable schedule and sometimes works nights and weekends apparently. He’s relying on his girlfriend (who could be transitory or not) and his mom to be the primary caregivers during his custody time. Ex can make the case she is better suited to be stable home pretty easily.

But really they should both keep it out of court, because it’s a gamble and expensive and rarely in the best interest of kid. Op should use his bargaining chip (she wants more time) to get her to get a job and if so he will agree to 60/40. He’s fighting for something he can’t even handle and it’s going to be very transparent that it’s more about the money than his kids best interest.

OP here. My job hours do not make me unavailable for 50/50 unless you’re making the argument that any parent that works full time shouldn’t have 50/50 custody.

I work 35-38 hours a week on a regular set schedule, but can’t make it to preschool pickup by 5:30. I work on Saturday and Sunday but have two days off during the week where our child does not go to preschool. I am the primary caregiver during my custody time.

My goal is to maintain the parenting time that I’ve always had, not to minimize child support. I would like my ex to also work to support our child and not to be the only working parent but I can’t exactly control that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Girlfriend shouldn’t be your babysitter, not appropriate.

+1 your really need to find an afterschool or daycare with extended hours. Also shuffling your daughter off to your mom a few times a month is not necessarily something she would have to agree too. You are basically saying for the majority of your awake custody hours your daughter is with your mom or girlfriend. And that’s because you don’t want to pay your ex wife more. You obviously have a tight work schedule. Negotiate with your ex to give her more custody with the caveat that she get a job, even part time. Play the long game and if you get her working you can adjust child support especially once kid is in school. Back off the solo grandma visits for now just have her come when you can all spend time together. It diesnt look good and I’m surprised your lawyer hasn’t mentioned that. Find a way to work this out. Neither of you will like the judges take on it.

You seem to have the same attitude as the mother in this case where daycare/preschool/aftercare is fine even when mom is available (since mom seems to be available all the time as she is not working) but granny and g/f are not fine. Why is that? This makes it appear that it is about control, bitterness, and spite and not actually about wanting maximum amount of time with the child.

If mom isn't working and is available, why is the kid still in daycare at all, especially during her time? If she really wanted to claw some time back, wouldn't it make more sense for her to offer to pulled kid out of daycare and save them money?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Girlfriend shouldn’t be your babysitter, not appropriate.

+1 your really need to find an afterschool or daycare with extended hours. Also shuffling your daughter off to your mom a few times a month is not necessarily something she would have to agree too. You are basically saying for the majority of your awake custody hours your daughter is with your mom or girlfriend. And that’s because you don’t want to pay your ex wife more. You obviously have a tight work schedule. Negotiate with your ex to give her more custody with the caveat that she get a job, even part time. Play the long game and if you get her working you can adjust child support especially once kid is in school. Back off the solo grandma visits for now just have her come when you can all spend time together. It diesnt look good and I’m surprised your lawyer hasn’t mentioned that. Find a way to work this out. Neither of you will like the judges take on it.

You seem to have the same attitude as the mother in this case where daycare/preschool/aftercare is fine even when mom is available (since mom seems to be available all the time as she is not working) but granny and g/f are not fine. Why is that? This makes it appear that it is about control, bitterness, and spite and not actually about wanting maximum amount of time with the child.

If mom isn't working and is available, why is the kid still in daycare at all, especially during her time? If she really wanted to claw some time back, wouldn't it make more sense for her to offer to pulled kid out of daycare and save them money?

OP here. Yes. She has no problem that I send our child to daycare while she has been unemployed and available for the past 14 months. She also continues to send the child to daycare during her time. Right of first refusal only became a thing in her mind when my girlfriend moved in last year and started picking up our daughter.

I’m a little annoyed that this discussion keeps devolving into discussion about right of first refusal, but it makes sense because it really is what the case is all about.

It used to be that I did all dropoffs and my ex did all pickups no matter whose week it was. Three days a week, I would go to their house in the morning and pick our child up, drop off at daycare, and go to work. My ex would pick our child up in the afternoon, and we’d exchange in the evening after I got off work either at my work or I’d go to their house on the way home.

This arrangement was fine since I couldn’t make pickup due to my work schedule, and I enjoyed the extra time with our child in the morning, but once I started dating my girlfriend (starting before she even met our child) things started getting more high conflict as I started to set more boundaries. Having to see my ex every day started to be very draining. She would try to force me into conversations and berate me when I didn’t do what she wanted. Multiple times those interactions ended with her yelling and slamming the door in my face in front of our child.

When my girlfriend and I decided to move in together (after 1.5 years of dating), my ex was very upset and angry. She responded by saying “don’t worry about dropoffs anymore. I will handle all my own dropoffs and pickups during my week.” Which would mean I’d go a whole week without seeing our child. Not sure if it was in retaliation to take away time with our child or she just didn’t want to see me every day, but she is the one who suggested we end the arrangement first.

I thought it was a good idea to reduce interaction and conflict between us so I agreed and said I would also handle all my own pickups and dropoffs by designating someone to do it while I was at work. Since my girlfriend was moving in, she said she was happy to do pickup a few days a week to make things easier. My ex obviously didn’t like that and said that I was taking away her rights and her time and she wasn’t going to go a whole week without seeing our daughter. This is when she started threatening to file for custody and a couple months later she did. And somewhere along the way learned the words “right of first refusal.”

It turns out the constant back and forth between households was extremely hard on our child and I didn’t realize it. As soon as we started keeping our parenting time totally separate, so many issues vanished. Immediately became nighttime potty trained, stopped crying each night at bedtime due to missing mom, slept longer and better without waking up multiple times a night, and was all around a happier and more easygoing. I am happier and a much better parent not having to see my ex nearly every day, my relationship is better, etc. I do not want to have a parenting plan that makes things go back to the way they used to be. It would serve nothing except my ex’s need for control. She is, it seems, willing to go to trial over it even though everything I’ve read and heard indicates it’s not likely for it to be put in the order the way she wants.

[Anonymous]

Your child is young for a full week away from either parent. Usually at her age, you'd do 2-2-5-5 or 2-2-3. At the VERY least, a midweek dinner in the off week. It's odd that the dc isn't seeing a parent for a full week at a time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Girlfriend shouldn’t be your babysitter, not appropriate.

+1 your really need to find an afterschool or daycare with extended hours. Also shuffling your daughter off to your mom a few times a month is not necessarily something she would have to agree too. You are basically saying for the majority of your awake custody hours your daughter is with your mom or girlfriend. And that’s because you don’t want to pay your ex wife more. You obviously have a tight work schedule. Negotiate with your ex to give her more custody with the caveat that she get a job, even part time. Play the long game and if you get her working you can adjust child support especially once kid is in school. Back off the solo grandma visits for now just have her come when you can all spend time together. It diesnt look good and I’m surprised your lawyer hasn’t mentioned that. Find a way to work this out. Neither of you will like the judges take on it.

This is nuts. Extended daycare would be okay, but letting the kid come home with girlfriend or grandma in the afternoon is not? Please explain your reasoning here.

He doesn’t have to “back off” solo grandma visits. He has every right to let the child have visits with grandma during his time and mom doesn’t have to agree. I can’t imagine a judge interfering with that.

ex will say his job hours make him unavailable for childcare for 50/50 custody. And ex is right. He has an unpredictable schedule and sometimes works nights and weekends apparently. He’s relying on his girlfriend (who could be transitory or not) and his mom to be the primary caregivers during his custody time. Ex can make the case she is better suited to be stable home pretty easily.

But really they should both keep it out of court, because it’s a gamble and expensive and rarely in the best interest of kid. Op should use his bargaining chip (she wants more time) to get her to get a job and if so he will agree to 60/40. He’s fighting for something he can’t even handle and it’s going to be very transparent that it’s more about the money than his kids best interest.

OP here. My job hours do not make me unavailable for 50/50 unless you’re making the argument that any parent that works full time shouldn’t have 50/50 custody.

I work 35-38 hours a week on a regular set schedule, but can’t make it to preschool pickup by 5:30. I work on Saturday and Sunday but have two days off during the week where our child does not go to preschool. I am the primary caregiver during my custody time.

My goal is to maintain the parenting time that I’ve always had, not to minimize child support. I would like my ex to also work to support our child and not to be the only working parent but I can’t exactly control that.

I am confused about your schedule. Where is your child on Saturday and Sunday?

Also, why is it ok for you to keep your child out of school on the days you don’t work, but not for her mother to do the same?