If TJ has such smart kids, why so much cheating?

[Anonymous]

The math teacher Ms. Juster is a great and excellent math teacher with many many years of TJ math teaching experience. She made the excellent notes package and homework package and other review sheets for math 3 and math 4 students. My daughter firstly finished the notes package, then finished the homework package, finally finished other work sheets posted in SIS. So my daughter can easily and quickly learn the knowledge of math3 and math 4 due to these greatest packages made by TJ great and excellent teacher who also shared these greatest packages to other TJ math teachers.

Thanks and appreciated for these kind of great and excellent math teachers at TJ , and other great TJ teachers! TJ students are proud of you because of your excellent job!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here is whats happening: TJ course work and exams are 2x harder than base school. These kids are fearful of getting a B or C even though they know the material really well.

Colleges dont care about course rigor - only grades.

TJ principal and staff turn a blind eye to this well known problem

Hence the cheating.

The problem seems to be the grading at TJHSST. Why not use the same standard at TJHSST as they would use with other honors classes and AP classes at other schools?

TJ uses the same grading scale as rest of FCPS high schools: https://www.fcps.edu/academics/grading-and-reporting/secondary/grading-scale

You need a 93 or above to get a A. And for the type of questions being asked (and the number of questions) - this is very hard for most kids. Hence the cheating etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 to PP

Roughly 1/3 of the class are truly 'gifted' and breeze thorough. The remaining 2/3 either cheat to keep up or dont care too much (50-50)

And this has been the case for several years now (so not related to the new admissions process)

TJ alumna here. I was in the 2/3 and I neither cheated nor stopped caring. I just accepted a few Bs and not getting into HYP or MIT. Maybe that counts as not caring "too much?"

It's a nice life, being in the 2/3 and being willing to go to a good-enough college, have a good-enough career, and live a good-enough life.

That's what I meant by 'do not care' - in a positive way. happy for you!!

+1

To be fair the TJ admin didn't make it easy to accept being less than amazing. They constantly brought in speakers talking about how TJ kids were going to change the world. It's been 35 years since TJ's inception and while plenty of TJ alumni are plenty successful, not a single one has changed the world.

On the one hand you'd have a teacher telling you Bs were fine, and on another a million outside speakers thinking they were fluffing egos by telling you that you were definitely destined to be the best thing since sliced bread. Then when you weren't the best thing since sliced bread, it was a little confusing. But at the same time we all knew who the super-geniuses were, and there were about 3 of them per grade, max.

There is a similar dynamic at stuyvesant where 800 of the brightest students primary function is the provide an enriched environment for the handful of absolute geniuses at the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here is whats happening: TJ course work and exams are 2x harder than base school. These kids are fearful of getting a B or C even though they know the material really well.

Colleges dont care about course rigor - only grades.

TJ principal and staff turn a blind eye to this well known problem

Hence the cheating.

The problem seems to be the grading at TJHSST. Why not use the same standard at TJHSST as they would use with other honors classes and AP classes at other schools?

Wouldn't change a thing. Everyone would just be competing to get as close to 5.0 as possible instead of as close to 4.5 as possible.

I don't think so. I see a lot of pressure over college admissions and so many kids that could have gotten into UVA but for their 4.3 GPA. If their GPA was 4.8 they would get in. If everyone at TJHSST thought that they could get into UVA or VT with an honest effort, I doubt there would be much cheating at all, but every year most of the kids go to schools in the 50-100 range because of GPA, not SATs, not extracurriculars, just the GPA holding them back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here is whats happening: TJ course work and exams are 2x harder than base school. These kids are fearful of getting a B or C even though they know the material really well.

Colleges dont care about course rigor - only grades.

TJ principal and staff turn a blind eye to this well known problem

Hence the cheating.

The problem seems to be the grading at TJHSST. Why not use the same standard at TJHSST as they would use with other honors classes and AP classes at other schools?

TJ uses the same grading scale as rest of FCPS high schools: https://www.fcps.edu/academics/grading-and-reporting/secondary/grading-scale

You need a 93 or above to get a A. And for the type of questions being asked (and the number of questions) - this is very hard for most kids. Hence the cheating etc

That's the same scale but if the same student would get a better GPA at their base school taking the same honors and AP courses, then they are not using the same standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here is whats happening: TJ course work and exams are 2x harder than base school. These kids are fearful of getting a B or C even though they know the material really well.

Colleges dont care about course rigor - only grades.

TJ principal and staff turn a blind eye to this well known problem

Hence the cheating.

The problem seems to be the grading at TJHSST. Why not use the same standard at TJHSST as they would use with other honors classes and AP classes at other schools?

Wouldn't change a thing. Everyone would just be competing to get as close to 5.0 as possible instead of as close to 4.5 as possible.

I don't think so. I see a lot of pressure over college admissions and so many kids that could have gotten into UVA but for their 4.3 GPA. If their GPA was 4.8 they would get in. If everyone at TJHSST thought that they could get into UVA or VT with an honest effort, I doubt there would be much cheating at all, but every year most of the kids go to schools in the 50-100 range because of GPA, not SATs, not extracurriculars, just the GPA holding them back.

In my experience very few people at TJ stress about getting into VT. MIT yes. VT no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here is whats happening: TJ course work and exams are 2x harder than base school. These kids are fearful of getting a B or C even though they know the material really well.

Colleges dont care about course rigor - only grades.

TJ principal and staff turn a blind eye to this well known problem

Hence the cheating.

The problem seems to be the grading at TJHSST. Why not use the same standard at TJHSST as they would use with other honors classes and AP classes at other schools?

Wouldn't change a thing. Everyone would just be competing to get as close to 5.0 as possible instead of as close to 4.5 as possible.

I don't think so. I see a lot of pressure over college admissions and so many kids that could have gotten into UVA but for their 4.3 GPA. If their GPA was 4.8 they would get in. If everyone at TJHSST thought that they could get into UVA or VT with an honest effort, I doubt there would be much cheating at all, but every year most of the kids go to schools in the 50-100 range because of GPA, not SATs, not extracurriculars, just the GPA holding them back.

In my experience very few people at TJ stress about getting into VT. MIT yes. VT no.

This thread seems to indicate otherwise.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/50/1110894.page

[Anonymous]

If your kids aren't cheating, they aren't on an even playing field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here is whats happening: TJ course work and exams are 2x harder than base school. These kids are fearful of getting a B or C even though they know the material really well.

Colleges dont care about course rigor - only grades.

TJ principal and staff turn a blind eye to this well known problem

Hence the cheating.

The problem seems to be the grading at TJHSST. Why not use the same standard at TJHSST as they would use with other honors classes and AP classes at other schools?

Wouldn't change a thing. Everyone would just be competing to get as close to 5.0 as possible instead of as close to 4.5 as possible.

I don't think so. I see a lot of pressure over college admissions and so many kids that could have gotten into UVA but for their 4.3 GPA. If their GPA was 4.8 they would get in. If everyone at TJHSST thought that they could get into UVA or VT with an honest effort, I doubt there would be much cheating at all, but every year most of the kids go to schools in the 50-100 range because of GPA, not SATs, not extracurriculars, just the GPA holding them back.

This is my 4.3 TJ kid! Someone should have told me this. Nothing could compensate for a less than 4.4 GPA from TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here is whats happening: TJ course work and exams are 2x harder than base school. These kids are fearful of getting a B or C even though they know the material really well.

Colleges dont care about course rigor - only grades.

TJ principal and staff turn a blind eye to this well known problem

Hence the cheating.

The problem seems to be the grading at TJHSST. Why not use the same standard at TJHSST as they would use with other honors classes and AP classes at other schools?

Wouldn't change a thing. Everyone would just be competing to get as close to 5.0 as possible instead of as close to 4.5 as possible.

I don't think so. I see a lot of pressure over college admissions and so many kids that could have gotten into UVA but for their 4.3 GPA. If their GPA was 4.8 they would get in. If everyone at TJHSST thought that they could get into UVA or VT with an honest effort, I doubt there would be much cheating at all, but every year most of the kids go to schools in the 50-100 range because of GPA, not SATs, not extracurriculars, just the GPA holding them back.

This is my 4.3 TJ kid! Someone should have told me this. Nothing could compensate for a less than 4.4 GPA from TJ.

The stress is caused by the grading standards. The grade you get in honors math at TJ should be the same grade you would get in honors math at your base school. This would go a long way towards reducing the stress levels at TJ. Sure, everyone would end up with a near perfect GPA but the school does not rank students and their GPA should not be holding them back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here is whats happening: TJ course work and exams are 2x harder than base school. These kids are fearful of getting a B or C even though they know the material really well.

Colleges dont care about course rigor - only grades.

TJ principal and staff turn a blind eye to this well known problem

Hence the cheating.

The problem seems to be the grading at TJHSST. Why not use the same standard at TJHSST as they would use with other honors classes and AP classes at other schools?

Wouldn't change a thing. Everyone would just be competing to get as close to 5.0 as possible instead of as close to 4.5 as possible.

I don't think so. I see a lot of pressure over college admissions and so many kids that could have gotten into UVA but for their 4.3 GPA. If their GPA was 4.8 they would get in. If everyone at TJHSST thought that they could get into UVA or VT with an honest effort, I doubt there would be much cheating at all, but every year most of the kids go to schools in the 50-100 range because of GPA, not SATs, not extracurriculars, just the GPA holding them back.

Really!!! 4.8 GPA is it Technically possible? Even with all AP/AV courses the GPA would range around 4.7+.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your kids aren't cheating, they aren't on an even playing field.

They are playing a different game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here is whats happening: TJ course work and exams are 2x harder than base school. These kids are fearful of getting a B or C even though they know the material really well.

Colleges dont care about course rigor - only grades.

TJ principal and staff turn a blind eye to this well known problem

Hence the cheating.

The problem seems to be the grading at TJHSST. Why not use the same standard at TJHSST as they would use with other honors classes and AP classes at other schools?

Wouldn't change a thing. Everyone would just be competing to get as close to 5.0 as possible instead of as close to 4.5 as possible.

I don't think so. I see a lot of pressure over college admissions and so many kids that could have gotten into UVA but for their 4.3 GPA. If their GPA was 4.8 they would get in. If everyone at TJHSST thought that they could get into UVA or VT with an honest effort, I doubt there would be much cheating at all, but every year most of the kids go to schools in the 50-100 range because of GPA, not SATs, not extracurriculars, just the GPA holding them back.

Really!!! 4.8 GPA is it Technically possible? Even with all AP/AV courses the GPA would range around 4.7+.

Sure, if you aren't in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here is whats happening: TJ course work and exams are 2x harder than base school. These kids are fearful of getting a B or C even though they know the material really well.

Colleges dont care about course rigor - only grades.

TJ principal and staff turn a blind eye to this well known problem

Hence the cheating.

The problem seems to be the grading at TJHSST. Why not use the same standard at TJHSST as they would use with other honors classes and AP classes at other schools?

Wouldn't change a thing. Everyone would just be competing to get as close to 5.0 as possible instead of as close to 4.5 as possible.

I don't think so. I see a lot of pressure over college admissions and so many kids that could have gotten into UVA but for their 4.3 GPA. If their GPA was 4.8 they would get in. If everyone at TJHSST thought that they could get into UVA or VT with an honest effort, I doubt there would be much cheating at all, but every year most of the kids go to schools in the 50-100 range because of GPA, not SATs, not extracurriculars, just the GPA holding them back.

In my experience very few people at TJ stress about getting into VT. MIT yes. VT no.

This thread seems to indicate otherwise.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/50/1110894.page

Only if you cherry pick individual parents complaining about their kid not getting in. The data is simply different. 1/4 of the class gets into UVA per:

Available data simply do not support this. 49 kids went to UVA from TJ. UVA yield is around 40% that means at least 120+ kids were accepted from TJ. UVA's overall acceptance rate is 21%. That means 583 kids from TJ applied must have applied to have that many acceptance which cannot not be the case because TJ class size is less than 450 kids. So the only way the math works if the acceptance rate is higher - between 35% - 40% ( almost double the UVA's overall acceptance rate). This means about 300 -350 kids applied to UVA which is very very close to actual application number UVA received from TJ in 2022.

That's how it's always been. Forever.

[Anonymous]

Everyone posting about weighting the grades more hasn't read all the commenters on the Private School forum bellyaching about how only unweighted GPA matters anyway.

You can't have it both ways. Either a 4.8 gets you places a 4.3 doesn't, or it's really unweighted GPA and everyone knows the grading scales of rigorous, prestigous schools (like TJ and the Big 3 privates) anyway. I'm betting it's the latter.