If TJ has such smart kids, why so much cheating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 to PP

Roughly 1/3 of the class are truly 'gifted' and breeze thorough. The remaining 2/3 either cheat to keep up or dont care too much (50-50)

And this has been the case for several years now (so not related to the new admissions process)

TJ alumna here. I was in the 2/3 and I neither cheated nor stopped caring. I just accepted a few Bs and not getting into HYP or MIT. Maybe that counts as not caring "too much?"

It's a nice life, being in the 2/3 and being willing to go to a good-enough college, have a good-enough career, and live a good-enough life.

That's what I meant by 'do not care' - in a positive way. happy for you!!

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TJ math is very hard. The only students who do well are natural math geniuses and those who have been grinding math for years. The rest are B students.

Amusing that in your mind, B students are not "doing well". Told on yourself a little bit there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 to PP

Roughly 1/3 of the class are truly 'gifted' and breeze thorough. The remaining 2/3 either cheat to keep up or dont care too much (50-50)

And this has been the case for several years now (so not related to the new admissions process)

TJ alumna here. I was in the 2/3 and I neither cheated nor stopped caring. I just accepted a few Bs and not getting into HYP or MIT. Maybe that counts as not caring "too much?"

It's a nice life, being in the 2/3 and being willing to go to a good-enough college, have a good-enough career, and live a good-enough life.

That's what I meant by 'do not care' - in a positive way. happy for you!!

+1

To be fair the TJ admin didn't make it easy to accept being less than amazing. They constantly brought in speakers talking about how TJ kids were going to change the world. It's been 35 years since TJ's inception and while plenty of TJ alumni are plenty successful, not a single one has changed the world.

On the one hand you'd have a teacher telling you Bs were fine, and on another a million outside speakers thinking they were fluffing egos by telling you that you were definitely destined to be the best thing since sliced bread. Then when you weren't the best thing since sliced bread, it was a little confusing. But at the same time we all knew who the super-geniuses were, and there were about 3 of them per grade, max.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 to PP

Roughly 1/3 of the class are truly 'gifted' and breeze thorough. The remaining 2/3 either cheat to keep up or dont care too much (50-50)

And this has been the case for several years now (so not related to the new admissions process)

TJ alumna here. I was in the 2/3 and I neither cheated nor stopped caring. I just accepted a few Bs and not getting into HYP or MIT. Maybe that counts as not caring "too much?"

It's a nice life, being in the 2/3 and being willing to go to a good-enough college, have a good-enough career, and live a good-enough life.

That's what I meant by 'do not care' - in a positive way. happy for you!!

+1

To be fair the TJ admin didn't make it easy to accept being less than amazing. They constantly brought in speakers talking about how TJ kids were going to change the world. It's been 35 years since TJ's inception and while plenty of TJ alumni are plenty successful, not a single one has changed the world.

On the one hand you'd have a teacher telling you Bs were fine, and on another a million outside speakers thinking they were fluffing egos by telling you that you were definitely destined to be the best thing since sliced bread. Then when you weren't the best thing since sliced bread, it was a little confusing. But at the same time we all knew who the super-geniuses were, and there were about 3 of them per grade, max.

I mean, sure they have. Jose Llana, Amna Nawaz, Chris Sununu, Howard Lerman, Vlad Tenev, Kathryn Minshew... they might not be household names, but they've certainly changed the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 to PP

Roughly 1/3 of the class are truly 'gifted' and breeze thorough. The remaining 2/3 either cheat to keep up or dont care too much (50-50)

And this has been the case for several years now (so not related to the new admissions process)

TJ alumna here. I was in the 2/3 and I neither cheated nor stopped caring. I just accepted a few Bs and not getting into HYP or MIT. Maybe that counts as not caring "too much?"

It's a nice life, being in the 2/3 and being willing to go to a good-enough college, have a good-enough career, and live a good-enough life.

That's what I meant by 'do not care' - in a positive way. happy for you!!

+1

To be fair the TJ admin didn't make it easy to accept being less than amazing. They constantly brought in speakers talking about how TJ kids were going to change the world. It's been 35 years since TJ's inception and while plenty of TJ alumni are plenty successful, not a single one has changed the world.

On the one hand you'd have a teacher telling you Bs were fine, and on another a million outside speakers thinking they were fluffing egos by telling you that you were definitely destined to be the best thing since sliced bread. Then when you weren't the best thing since sliced bread, it was a little confusing. But at the same time we all knew who the super-geniuses were, and there were about 3 of them per grade, max.

I mean, sure they have. Jose Llana, Amna Nawaz, Chris Sununu, Howard Lerman, Vlad Tenev, Kathryn Minshew... they might not be household names, but they've certainly changed the world.

Trust me - not the way these speakers were talking about.

[Anonymous]

My son graduated from blair years ago and it’s the same kinds of kids who cheat. I believe it’s cultural in that certain kids are pressured either by their parents or themselves to cheat to get ahead. My son told me of several instances where kids were copying his answers because he was known to be wicked smart in math.

The one I thought was really weird was the kid who cheated on the screening exam for physics Olympiad. The cheater successfully passed to the next level but then didn’t show up for the follow up testing to make the physics team. The kid knew he was a fraud and would have done poorly on the next test. So what was the point. And if the other kids all know you are a cheater, that has its own punishment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 to PP

Roughly 1/3 of the class are truly 'gifted' and breeze thorough. The remaining 2/3 either cheat to keep up or dont care too much (50-50)

And this has been the case for several years now (so not related to the new admissions process)

TJ alumna here. I was in the 2/3 and I neither cheated nor stopped caring. I just accepted a few Bs and not getting into HYP or MIT. Maybe that counts as not caring "too much?"

It's a nice life, being in the 2/3 and being willing to go to a good-enough college, have a good-enough career, and live a good-enough life.

That's what I meant by 'do not care' - in a positive way. happy for you!!

+1

To be fair the TJ admin didn't make it easy to accept being less than amazing. They constantly brought in speakers talking about how TJ kids were going to change the world. It's been 35 years since TJ's inception and while plenty of TJ alumni are plenty successful, not a single one has changed the world.

On the one hand you'd have a teacher telling you Bs were fine, and on another a million outside speakers thinking they were fluffing egos by telling you that you were definitely destined to be the best thing since sliced bread. Then when you weren't the best thing since sliced bread, it was a little confusing. But at the same time we all knew who the super-geniuses were, and there were about 3 of them per grade, max.

I mean, sure they have. Jose Llana, Amna Nawaz, Chris Sununu, Howard Lerman, Vlad Tenev, Kathryn Minshew... they might not be household names, but they've certainly changed the world.

Tenev is the only one close to "changing the world" and even he has had mixed results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 to PP

Roughly 1/3 of the class are truly 'gifted' and breeze thorough. The remaining 2/3 either cheat to keep up or dont care too much (50-50)

And this has been the case for several years now (so not related to the new admissions process)

TJ alumna here. I was in the 2/3 and I neither cheated nor stopped caring. I just accepted a few Bs and not getting into HYP or MIT. Maybe that counts as not caring "too much?"

It's a nice life, being in the 2/3 and being willing to go to a good-enough college, have a good-enough career, and live a good-enough life.

That's what I meant by 'do not care' - in a positive way. happy for you!!

+1

To be fair the TJ admin didn't make it easy to accept being less than amazing. They constantly brought in speakers talking about how TJ kids were going to change the world. It's been 35 years since TJ's inception and while plenty of TJ alumni are plenty successful, not a single one has changed the world.

On the one hand you'd have a teacher telling you Bs were fine, and on another a million outside speakers thinking they were fluffing egos by telling you that you were definitely destined to be the best thing since sliced bread. Then when you weren't the best thing since sliced bread, it was a little confusing. But at the same time we all knew who the super-geniuses were, and there were about 3 of them per grade, max.

I mean, sure they have. Jose Llana, Amna Nawaz, Chris Sununu, Howard Lerman, Vlad Tenev, Kathryn Minshew... they might not be household names, but they've certainly changed the world.

Tenev is the only one close to "changing the world" and even he has had mixed results.

Who has changed the world and where have they gone to high school? Rich kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 to PP

Roughly 1/3 of the class are truly 'gifted' and breeze thorough. The remaining 2/3 either cheat to keep up or dont care too much (50-50)

And this has been the case for several years now (so not related to the new admissions process)

TJ alumna here. I was in the 2/3 and I neither cheated nor stopped caring. I just accepted a few Bs and not getting into HYP or MIT. Maybe that counts as not caring "too much?"

It's a nice life, being in the 2/3 and being willing to go to a good-enough college, have a good-enough career, and live a good-enough life.

That's what I meant by 'do not care' - in a positive way. happy for you!!

+1

To be fair the TJ admin didn't make it easy to accept being less than amazing. They constantly brought in speakers talking about how TJ kids were going to change the world. It's been 35 years since TJ's inception and while plenty of TJ alumni are plenty successful, not a single one has changed the world.

On the one hand you'd have a teacher telling you Bs were fine, and on another a million outside speakers thinking they were fluffing egos by telling you that you were definitely destined to be the best thing since sliced bread. Then when you weren't the best thing since sliced bread, it was a little confusing. But at the same time we all knew who the super-geniuses were, and there were about 3 of them per grade, max.

I mean, sure they have. Jose Llana, Amna Nawaz, Chris Sununu, Howard Lerman, Vlad Tenev, Kathryn Minshew... they might not be household names, but they've certainly changed the world.

Tenev is the only one close to "changing the world" and even he has had mixed results.

Who has changed the world and where have they gone to high school? Rich kids?

I think you can make a serious argument that Mark Zuckerberg, who was a high school student in an era when TJ existed, changed the entire world.

I also think you can't predict those people or where they go to school and the entire idea of putting that kind of (unintentional) pressure on a class of gifted kids is dumb. It's where the meme about being a gifted kid for Halloween comes from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, here is whats happening: TJ course work and exams are 2x harder than base school. These kids are fearful of getting a B or C even though they know the material really well.

Colleges dont care about course rigor - only grades.

TJ principal and staff turn a blind eye to this well known problem

Hence the cheating.

The problem seems to be the grading at TJHSST. Why not use the same standard at TJHSST as they would use with other honors classes and AP classes at other schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, here is whats happening: TJ course work and exams are 2x harder than base school. These kids are fearful of getting a B or C even though they know the material really well.

Colleges dont care about course rigor - only grades.

TJ principal and staff turn a blind eye to this well known problem

Hence the cheating.

The problem seems to be the grading at TJHSST. Why not use the same standard at TJHSST as they would use with other honors classes and AP classes at other schools?

Wouldn't change a thing. Everyone would just be competing to get as close to 5.0 as possible instead of as close to 4.5 as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 to PP

Roughly 1/3 of the class are truly 'gifted' and breeze thorough. The remaining 2/3 either cheat to keep up or dont care too much (50-50)

And this has been the case for several years now (so not related to the new admissions process)

TJ alumna here. I was in the 2/3 and I neither cheated nor stopped caring. I just accepted a few Bs and not getting into HYP or MIT. Maybe that counts as not caring "too much?"

It's a nice life, being in the 2/3 and being willing to go to a good-enough college, have a good-enough career, and live a good-enough life.

That's what I meant by 'do not care' - in a positive way. happy for you!!

+1

To be fair the TJ admin didn't make it easy to accept being less than amazing. They constantly brought in speakers talking about how TJ kids were going to change the world. It's been 35 years since TJ's inception and while plenty of TJ alumni are plenty successful, not a single one has changed the world.

On the one hand you'd have a teacher telling you Bs were fine, and on another a million outside speakers thinking they were fluffing egos by telling you that you were definitely destined to be the best thing since sliced bread. Then when you weren't the best thing since sliced bread, it was a little confusing. But at the same time we all knew who the super-geniuses were, and there were about 3 of them per grade, max.

I mean, sure they have. Jose Llana, Amna Nawaz, Chris Sununu, Howard Lerman, Vlad Tenev, Kathryn Minshew... they might not be household names, but they've certainly changed the world.

Tenev is the only one close to "changing the world" and even he has had mixed results.

Who has changed the world and where have they gone to high school? Rich kids?

Typically.

Musk/Thiel. Jobs. Gates. Zuckerberg. Dorsey. Kariko. James Watson. Hawking. Nakamoto. Doudna/Charpentier. Hastings/Randolph. Bezos. MacKenzie Scott. Duffield. Benioff. Yousafzai. Luis von Ahn. Drew Houston. Sara Blakely. Lin Manuel Miranda. etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 to PP

Roughly 1/3 of the class are truly 'gifted' and breeze thorough. The remaining 2/3 either cheat to keep up or dont care too much (50-50)

And this has been the case for several years now (so not related to the new admissions process)

TJ alumna here. I was in the 2/3 and I neither cheated nor stopped caring. I just accepted a few Bs and not getting into HYP or MIT. Maybe that counts as not caring "too much?"

It's a nice life, being in the 2/3 and being willing to go to a good-enough college, have a good-enough career, and live a good-enough life.

That's what I meant by 'do not care' - in a positive way. happy for you!!

+1

To be fair the TJ admin didn't make it easy to accept being less than amazing. They constantly brought in speakers talking about how TJ kids were going to change the world. It's been 35 years since TJ's inception and while plenty of TJ alumni are plenty successful, not a single one has changed the world.

On the one hand you'd have a teacher telling you Bs were fine, and on another a million outside speakers thinking they were fluffing egos by telling you that you were definitely destined to be the best thing since sliced bread. Then when you weren't the best thing since sliced bread, it was a little confusing. But at the same time we all knew who the super-geniuses were, and there were about 3 of them per grade, max.

I mean, sure they have. Jose Llana, Amna Nawaz, Chris Sununu, Howard Lerman, Vlad Tenev, Kathryn Minshew... they might not be household names, but they've certainly changed the world.

Tenev is the only one close to "changing the world" and even he has had mixed results.

Who has changed the world and where have they gone to high school? Rich kids?

Typically.

Musk/Thiel. Jobs. Gates. Zuckerberg. Dorsey. Kariko. James Watson. Hawking. Nakamoto. Doudna/Charpentier. Hastings/Randolph. Bezos. MacKenzie Scott. Duffield. Benioff. Yousafzai. Luis von Ahn. Drew Houston. Sara Blakely. Lin Manuel Miranda. etc.

None of them did it by themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the TJ math 4 (trig) exams are 10 times harder than base school. For example, my 9th grade daughter's math 4 unit 4 (vector) exam taken in the middle of May just really was very hard. The exam has 10 pages, total has 26 questions, and 5 free response questions of 26 then have 3 questions. First, the exam has so many questions. Second, the exam is far harder than they learned ,for example, there are two new academy words that can not be found from the precalculus and AP calculus textbooks in this exam. Because the math teacher who made the exam is leading the math competition club at TJ. So, many students failed this test, and many girls cried after the test. Of course, my daughter had a bad mood after the test on that day. When my daughter told me she did not do well on this exam, I told her that is ok as long as you study hard, and you still have chance to improve you grade at the next exams of unit 5 and final exam. I and her father both often tell her never cheating in any exams even if you will get a bad grade, because honest is the most important for you!

What does this mean? I don’t understand: were five of the 26 questions free response and then another three for a total,of 29?

26 questions in total. out of which 5 had 3 questions ( within each of them)

Got it. But isn’t it better to have more questions rather than fewer, so each one is a smaller percentage of the total? If you get a few wrong, it doesn’t wreck your grade. The fewer questions there are, the bigger a deal it is to get one wrong.

The question is nearly all students did not have enough time to finish the exam even if they know how to do it, because there is only 90 minutes to do it. Furthermore, math 4 exams have lots of questions about true or wrong and multiple choice , which are not easy to let students get high grade, because students can not show the process that they how to do them in these questions, so even if they know how to do it, but the final result was wrong, then they can not get any score on these type questions. Furthermore, some these questions are very hard, which need many times to finish it. Students can get some some score even if the final result is wrong in free response questions.

Math 3 (Algebra 2) exams all are free response questions, so students can easily get higher scores than math 4(trig).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 to PP

Roughly 1/3 of the class are truly 'gifted' and breeze thorough. The remaining 2/3 either cheat to keep up or dont care too much (50-50)

And this has been the case for several years now (so not related to the new admissions process)

TJ alumna here. I was in the 2/3 and I neither cheated nor stopped caring. I just accepted a few Bs and not getting into HYP or MIT. Maybe that counts as not caring "too much?"

It's a nice life, being in the 2/3 and being willing to go to a good-enough college, have a good-enough career, and live a good-enough life.

That's what I meant by 'do not care' - in a positive way. happy for you!!

+1

To be fair the TJ admin didn't make it easy to accept being less than amazing. They constantly brought in speakers talking about how TJ kids were going to change the world. It's been 35 years since TJ's inception and while plenty of TJ alumni are plenty successful, not a single one has changed the world.

On the one hand you'd have a teacher telling you Bs were fine, and on another a million outside speakers thinking they were fluffing egos by telling you that you were definitely destined to be the best thing since sliced bread. Then when you weren't the best thing since sliced bread, it was a little confusing. But at the same time we all knew who the super-geniuses were, and there were about 3 of them per grade, max.

I mean, sure they have. Jose Llana, Amna Nawaz, Chris Sununu, Howard Lerman, Vlad Tenev, Kathryn Minshew... they might not be household names, but they've certainly changed the world.

Tenev is the only one close to "changing the world" and even he has had mixed results.

Who has changed the world and where have they gone to high school? Rich kids?

Typically.

Musk/Thiel. Jobs. Gates. Zuckerberg. Dorsey. Kariko. James Watson. Hawking. Nakamoto. Doudna/Charpentier. Hastings/Randolph. Bezos. MacKenzie Scott. Duffield. Benioff. Yousafzai. Luis von Ahn. Drew Houston. Sara Blakely. Lin Manuel Miranda. etc.

None of them did it by themselves.

Is that the qualifier now?

The TJ grads I know are super smart, but also not changing the world. That seems to be the case for almost all TJ grads.