Are kids still doing it all? Rise of travel sports and scheduled kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

A lot of club sports do offer financial assistance to help cover fees - it’s not always publicized. It’s worth asking around especially if your child has real talent.

[Anonymous]

More parents ought to watch chasing childhood. It's really an eye opener.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

I never mentioned money in this post. I just wanted to add that there’s better programs out there for recreational players. There’s a lot to choose from. There are travel teams for players looking to get better and there are elite teams where the top players in the country play for free.

My dad is going to an expensive camp not because she’s good because she isn’t. She’s going because she loves playing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More parents ought to watch chasing childhood. It's really an eye opener.

It is totally possible to find a balance and give kids time to play while letting them be competitive at a sport, play an instrument well enough to enhance their enjoyment of music, and still do OK in school. Note I didn't say play on a showcase tournament team, go to Juliard, and be the valedictorian. I just said kids can have a few activities and still have time to play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

I never mentioned money in this post. I just wanted to add that there’s better programs out there for recreational players. There’s a lot to choose from. There are travel teams for players looking to get better and there are elite teams where the top players in the country play for free.

My dad is going to an expensive camp not because she’s good because she isn’t. She’s going because she loves playing.

The cost has been a constant theme in this thread. Why are parents spending so much on clubs/fees/privates/camps etc? Of course that's part of this. Why do you think people aren't aware of the various offerings for rec leagues? Almost everyone starts in rec. Then they leave for something different if that's what they want. I think people are just mad that they have to keep up or else they will be shut out. But that's their choice or maybe that can find another activity that works better for their family instead of trying to tell everyone else what to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

So throw the baby out with the bath water? We all know life isn't fair. I'm sure you can start a foundation to award scholarships for underprivileged kids to play in clubs if you wanted to. But the answer isn't to shut them down so nobody can play.

[Anonymous]

Our oldest is now heading to college. She wasn't sporty, and focused relentlessly on academics. If she had been sporty, we'd probably be in the travel sports trap. I think we got lucky. She's heading to a T10 national university next year. I say this not to gloat but as a matter of fact. Her lack of scheduling allowed her to focus on homework for 3+ hours per night, and gave her the quiet time to decompress and be creative. Most of her peer group spent most of their time from ages 10-17 doing travel sports. I honestly believe now that it was counterproductive for most of these kids. Most of these parents are now disappointed (some aren't; a few got D1/D3 spots at Ivies, SLACs, etc.) I don't know what they expected; my hunch is these aren't rational decisions, but are more about reliving their glory days and living vicariously through their children. American parents seem to be making very irrational decisions with their children that ending up lining the pockets of shady kids' sports companies, and in the long run are at best neutral for their kids' outcomes and happiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our oldest is now heading to college. She wasn't sporty, and focused relentlessly on academics. If she had been sporty, we'd probably be in the travel sports trap. I think we got lucky. She's heading to a T10 national university next year. I say this not to gloat but as a matter of fact. Her lack of scheduling allowed her to focus on homework for 3+ hours per night, and gave her the quiet time to decompress and be creative. Most of her peer group spent most of their time from ages 10-17 doing travel sports. I honestly believe now that it was counterproductive for most of these kids. Most of these parents are now disappointed (some aren't; a few got D1/D3 spots at Ivies, SLACs, etc.) I don't know what they expected; my hunch is these aren't rational decisions, but are more about reliving their glory days and living vicariously through their children. American parents seem to be making very irrational decisions with their children that ending up lining the pockets of shady kids' sports companies, and in the long run are at best neutral for their kids' outcomes and happiness.

I agreed until you said 3+ hours of homework. Even in high school, that'd crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our oldest is now heading to college. She wasn't sporty, and focused relentlessly on academics. If she had been sporty, we'd probably be in the travel sports trap. I think we got lucky. She's heading to a T10 national university next year. I say this not to gloat but as a matter of fact. Her lack of scheduling allowed her to focus on homework for 3+ hours per night, and gave her the quiet time to decompress and be creative. Most of her peer group spent most of their time from ages 10-17 doing travel sports. I honestly believe now that it was counterproductive for most of these kids. Most of these parents are now disappointed (some aren't; a few got D1/D3 spots at Ivies, SLACs, etc.) I don't know what they expected; my hunch is these aren't rational decisions, but are more about reliving their glory days and living vicariously through their children. American parents seem to be making very irrational decisions with their children that ending up lining the pockets of shady kids' sports companies, and in the long run are at best neutral for their kids' outcomes and happiness.

As a counterpoint, this thread on the benefits of athletics: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1185935.page

I really, really don't think most parents out there are trying to live vicariously through their kids when they do sports. They're trying to give their kids a good experience that happens to come not just with athletic skills, but also with life skills. My kids have learned more about perseverance, determination, and the value of hard work through sports than through any other avenue. Would they learn that through challenging academics also? Probably, but it hasn't happened yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our oldest is now heading to college. She wasn't sporty, and focused relentlessly on academics. If she had been sporty, we'd probably be in the travel sports trap. I think we got lucky. She's heading to a T10 national university next year. I say this not to gloat but as a matter of fact. Her lack of scheduling allowed her to focus on homework for 3+ hours per night, and gave her the quiet time to decompress and be creative. Most of her peer group spent most of their time from ages 10-17 doing travel sports. I honestly believe now that it was counterproductive for most of these kids. Most of these parents are now disappointed (some aren't; a few got D1/D3 spots at Ivies, SLACs, etc.) I don't know what they expected; my hunch is these aren't rational decisions, but are more about reliving their glory days and living vicariously through their children. American parents seem to be making very irrational decisions with their children that ending up lining the pockets of shady kids' sports companies, and in the long run are at best neutral for their kids' outcomes and happiness.

+1. Agree with all of this, except it is not just American parents who fall victim to the travel sports machine, or whatever it is they have been told will allegedly "give their child a leg up" - it won't, they have been mislead, and think that they have to change from piano/violin to (any other instrument here), and force their kids play sports that they would otherwise not choose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

So throw the baby out with the bath water? We all know life isn't fair. I'm sure you can start a foundation to award scholarships for underprivileged kids to play in clubs if you wanted to. But the answer isn't to shut them down so nobody can play.

The baby and the bath water have already been thrown out. There is no rational reason that families SHOULD have to pay multiple thousands of dollars (not just in fees) for their children to play sports with kids that are similarly athletic. The only reason that families do is because they can, and the individuals that profit from the influx of money have done a good job increasing demand by marketing "travel" sports (and the high fees, and costs associated with private lessons, and venue rentals) as the best option for kids to play. It's really absurd that "life isn't fair" can extend to children at play, or that they should need scholarships just to play semi-competitive sports but, unfortunately, that's the reality today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

So throw the baby out with the bath water? We all know life isn't fair. I'm sure you can start a foundation to award scholarships for underprivileged kids to play in clubs if you wanted to. But the answer isn't to shut them down so nobody can play.

The baby and the bath water have already been thrown out. There is no rational reason that families SHOULD have to pay multiple thousands of dollars (not just in fees) for their children to play sports with kids that are similarly athletic. The only reason that families do is because they can, and the individuals that profit from the influx of money have done a good job increasing demand by marketing "travel" sports (and the high fees, and costs associated with private lessons, and venue rentals) as the best option for kids to play. It's really absurd that "life isn't fair" can extend to children at play, or that they should need scholarships just to play semi-competitive sports but, unfortunately, that's the reality today.

One of the best posts I've read in a while. Sports, for many reasons, are just not accessible to all kids and too many ppl act like they are. I believe sports can be great, but aren't necessary. They should be about fun, some exercise and socialization. Anything else a kid can get out of it is great, but that's all just an added bonus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

So throw the baby out with the bath water? We all know life isn't fair. I'm sure you can start a foundation to award scholarships for underprivileged kids to play in clubs if you wanted to. But the answer isn't to shut them down so nobody can play.

The baby and the bath water have already been thrown out. There is no rational reason that families SHOULD have to pay multiple thousands of dollars (not just in fees) for their children to play sports with kids that are similarly athletic. The only reason that families do is because they can, and the individuals that profit from the influx of money have done a good job increasing demand by marketing "travel" sports (and the high fees, and costs associated with private lessons, and venue rentals) as the best option for kids to play. It's really absurd that "life isn't fair" can extend to children at play, or that they should need scholarships just to play semi-competitive sports but, unfortunately, that's the reality today.

Nobody has to pay for anything. I have 3 kids. 2 do club/travel sports and 1 has no interest. We can afford it, they love it, so we make it work. There is no "have" to, it's an entirely rational decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

So throw the baby out with the bath water? We all know life isn't fair. I'm sure you can start a foundation to award scholarships for underprivileged kids to play in clubs if you wanted to. But the answer isn't to shut them down so nobody can play.

The baby and the bath water have already been thrown out. There is no rational reason that families SHOULD have to pay multiple thousands of dollars (not just in fees) for their children to play sports with kids that are similarly athletic. The only reason that families do is because they can, and the individuals that profit from the influx of money have done a good job increasing demand by marketing "travel" sports (and the high fees, and costs associated with private lessons, and venue rentals) as the best option for kids to play. It's really absurd that "life isn't fair" can extend to children at play, or that they should need scholarships just to play semi-competitive sports but, unfortunately, that's the reality today.

One of the best posts I've read in a while. Sports, for many reasons, are just not accessible to all kids and too many ppl act like they are. I believe sports can be great, but aren't necessary. They should be about fun, some exercise and socialization. Anything else a kid can get out of it is great, but that's all just an added bonus.

Everything just costs more. Rec soccer was $200 with volunteer coaches and free community fields. Travel has paid coaches.

Basketball also requires indoor courts. Tennis is and always was expensive unless you play at your local swim club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

So throw the baby out with the bath water? We all know life isn't fair. I'm sure you can start a foundation to award scholarships for underprivileged kids to play in clubs if you wanted to. But the answer isn't to shut them down so nobody can play.

The baby and the bath water have already been thrown out. There is no rational reason that families SHOULD have to pay multiple thousands of dollars (not just in fees) for their children to play sports with kids that are similarly athletic. The only reason that families do is because they can, and the individuals that profit from the influx of money have done a good job increasing demand by marketing "travel" sports (and the high fees, and costs associated with private lessons, and venue rentals) as the best option for kids to play. It's really absurd that "life isn't fair" can extend to children at play, or that they should need scholarships just to play semi-competitive sports but, unfortunately, that's the reality today.

Nobody has to pay for anything. I have 3 kids. 2 do club/travel sports and 1 has no interest. We can afford it, they love it, so we make it work. There is no "have" to, it's an entirely rational decision.

Well, depends on what the PP meant by "have." If a player can't find halfway decent competition in rec, then to find peers they "have" to play travel. If a player is athletic but untrained, then to get better they "have" to find better coaching. And if the player is below the poverty line, where's that money coming from? Or maybe someone could scrape money together, but time is a problem because parents are unwilling/unable and there's nobody nearby who can carpool. And the local rec league has kids from the same school, but they all really don't care. I don't think anyone can argue that travel doesn't present more barriers to play than if most kids who cared and many good-but-low-level travel coaches stayed in rec.