Are kids still doing it all? Rise of travel sports and scheduled kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

The rec teams have been cut badly.

My niece started a travel team in 6th grade and played varsity 4 years in high school. No summer programs no private coaches, just the ability to play basketball. I wouldn’t call the travel teams elite just competent kids who wanted to play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

They are voting with their feet and their wallets. They see value in the travel experience. Obviously they disagree with you or they wouldn’t be doing it.

You're missing my point. Of course they see value in it. But why? What's the investment return that benefits kids from having them play on a club's 3rd, 4th or 5th team vs playing rec league with the same kids? I'm obviously talking ideal right now because the system is broken now.

In my experience, it’s about level of interest as much as skill (and certainly not ROI). Many kids I know switched from rec to travel just to get teammates who show up all the time. I completely get why some families don’t want their weekends to revolve around kiddie sports, but when they think of it as optional, it can screw things up for the rest of the team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

They are voting with their feet and their wallets. They see value in the travel experience. Obviously they disagree with you or they wouldn’t be doing it.

You're missing my point. Of course they see value in it. But why? What's the investment return that benefits kids from having them play on a club's 3rd, 4th or 5th team vs playing rec league with the same kids? I'm obviously talking ideal right now because the system is broken now.

In my experience, it’s about level of interest as much as skill (and certainly not ROI). Many kids I know switched from rec to travel just to get teammates who show up all the time. I completely get why some families don’t want their weekends to revolve around kiddie sports, but when they think of it as optional, it can screw things up for the rest of the team.

This. We are on a very mediocre travel team, but the kids care and show up and know how to play. We really didn’t want to and if there was a Rec Plus or A/B team option we would have preferred that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

Thank you. This is more what I'm referring to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

They are voting with their feet and their wallets. They see value in the travel experience. Obviously they disagree with you or they wouldn’t be doing it.

You're missing my point. Of course they see value in it. But why? What's the investment return that benefits kids from having them play on a club's 3rd, 4th or 5th team vs playing rec league with the same kids? I'm obviously talking ideal right now because the system is broken now.

To get away from the kids who are terrible and parents keep signing them up anyway. It's not "fun" to lose every game because like it or not the score is kept. Kids who are good and like the game want to be around other similar kids and sadly, they aren't on the rec teams.

Even more than winning or losing, IME, it’s not fun to play with kids who don’t know what they’re doing or just aren’t very good because then you can’t “really” play. For example, it’s not fun in baseball to walk every time you’re up to bat because the opposing pitcher can’t throw strikes. Most kids, once they’re good enough, would rather strike out against a good pitcher because there’s at least a chance to hit the ball.

Exactly. And rec always has kids who have never played the sport before, don't understand it, and don't really care. That's just not fun for the kids who are into it. They want to play, get better, and be around kids like them. Why PP wants to relegate everyone to a rec team is a mystery. What does that person care what other people do with their time and money?

DP. I have multiple kids in rec and one of them really cares (and is good enough to play travel - multiple travel coaches have asked). The problem is we have an unavoidable religious conflict with most travel games. Yes - there are very few people like us (I think I can think of 2 or 3 other families out of many that I know in our sport), but we do exist. And we'd like to get more good people in rec for the sake of our kids. It's a catch-22, right? If you had good people in rec to make it a little more like low level travel I think a lot of people would enjoy it.

This isn't about score, either. Our league works hard on parity of play. That just means every team has to deal with the downer kids, which is a pain. It takes a really special core group on each team to set a good tone under those circumstances, and you just don't get that often.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

They are voting with their feet and their wallets. They see value in the travel experience. Obviously they disagree with you or they wouldn’t be doing it.

You're missing my point. Of course they see value in it. But why? What's the investment return that benefits kids from having them play on a club's 3rd, 4th or 5th team vs playing rec league with the same kids? I'm obviously talking ideal right now because the system is broken now.

To get away from the kids who are terrible and parents keep signing them up anyway. It's not "fun" to lose every game because like it or not the score is kept. Kids who are good and like the game want to be around other similar kids and sadly, they aren't on the rec teams.

Even more than winning or losing, IME, it’s not fun to play with kids who don’t know what they’re doing or just aren’t very good because then you can’t “really” play. For example, it’s not fun in baseball to walk every time you’re up to bat because the opposing pitcher can’t throw strikes. Most kids, once they’re good enough, would rather strike out against a good pitcher because there’s at least a chance to hit the ball.

Exactly. And rec always has kids who have never played the sport before, don't understand it, and don't really care. That's just not fun for the kids who are into it. They want to play, get better, and be around kids like them. Why PP wants to relegate everyone to a rec team is a mystery. What does that person care what other people do with their time and money?

DP. I have multiple kids in rec and one of them really cares (and is good enough to play travel - multiple travel coaches have asked). The problem is we have an unavoidable religious conflict with most travel games. Yes - there are very few people like us (I think I can think of 2 or 3 other families out of many that I know in our sport), but we do exist. And we'd like to get more good people in rec for the sake of our kids. It's a catch-22, right? If you had good people in rec to make it a little more like low level travel I think a lot of people would enjoy it.

This isn't about score, either. Our league works hard on parity of play. That just means every team has to deal with the downer kids, which is a pain. It takes a really special core group on each team to set a good tone under those circumstances, and you just don't get that often.

This is actually a challenge for some baseball/softball families.

Pool play on Saturday, and unless you're the top seed, you're likely getting an 8:00 or 10:00 am start time on Sunday for elimination play. We had one family come to our team's tryouts that said that they are available for practice and play every day except Sunday morning. Which simply wouldn not work with tournament play

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

They are voting with their feet and their wallets. They see value in the travel experience. Obviously they disagree with you or they wouldn’t be doing it.

You're missing my point. Of course they see value in it. But why? What's the investment return that benefits kids from having them play on a club's 3rd, 4th or 5th team vs playing rec league with the same kids? I'm obviously talking ideal right now because the system is broken now.

To get away from the kids who are terrible and parents keep signing them up anyway. It's not "fun" to lose every game because like it or not the score is kept. Kids who are good and like the game want to be around other similar kids and sadly, they aren't on the rec teams.

Even more than winning or losing, IME, it’s not fun to play with kids who don’t know what they’re doing or just aren’t very good because then you can’t “really” play. For example, it’s not fun in baseball to walk every time you’re up to bat because the opposing pitcher can’t throw strikes. Most kids, once they’re good enough, would rather strike out against a good pitcher because there’s at least a chance to hit the ball.

Exactly. And rec always has kids who have never played the sport before, don't understand it, and don't really care. That's just not fun for the kids who are into it. They want to play, get better, and be around kids like them. Why PP wants to relegate everyone to a rec team is a mystery. What does that person care what other people do with their time and money?

DP. I have multiple kids in rec and one of them really cares (and is good enough to play travel - multiple travel coaches have asked). The problem is we have an unavoidable religious conflict with most travel games. Yes - there are very few people like us (I think I can think of 2 or 3 other families out of many that I know in our sport), but we do exist. And we'd like to get more good people in rec for the sake of our kids. It's a catch-22, right? If you had good people in rec to make it a little more like low level travel I think a lot of people would enjoy it.

This isn't about score, either. Our league works hard on parity of play. That just means every team has to deal with the downer kids, which is a pain. It takes a really special core group on each team to set a good tone under those circumstances, and you just don't get that often.

This is actually a challenge for some baseball/softball families.

Pool play on Saturday, and unless you're the top seed, you're likely getting an 8:00 or 10:00 am start time on Sunday for elimination play. We had one family come to our team's tryouts that said that they are available for practice and play every day except Sunday morning. Which simply wouldn not work with tournament play

We have friends whose daughter plays another sport, and is up front with coaches in advance that Sunday morning games are not an option. They've had some coaches rescind spots because of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

They are voting with their feet and their wallets. They see value in the travel experience. Obviously they disagree with you or they wouldn’t be doing it.

You're missing my point. Of course they see value in it. But why? What's the investment return that benefits kids from having them play on a club's 3rd, 4th or 5th team vs playing rec league with the same kids? I'm obviously talking ideal right now because the system is broken now.

To get away from the kids who are terrible and parents keep signing them up anyway. It's not "fun" to lose every game because like it or not the score is kept. Kids who are good and like the game want to be around other similar kids and sadly, they aren't on the rec teams.

Even more than winning or losing, IME, it’s not fun to play with kids who don’t know what they’re doing or just aren’t very good because then you can’t “really” play. For example, it’s not fun in baseball to walk every time you’re up to bat because the opposing pitcher can’t throw strikes. Most kids, once they’re good enough, would rather strike out against a good pitcher because there’s at least a chance to hit the ball.

Exactly. And rec always has kids who have never played the sport before, don't understand it, and don't really care. That's just not fun for the kids who are into it. They want to play, get better, and be around kids like them. Why PP wants to relegate everyone to a rec team is a mystery. What does that person care what other people do with their time and money?

DP. I have multiple kids in rec and one of them really cares (and is good enough to play travel - multiple travel coaches have asked). The problem is we have an unavoidable religious conflict with most travel games. Yes - there are very few people like us (I think I can think of 2 or 3 other families out of many that I know in our sport), but we do exist. And we'd like to get more good people in rec for the sake of our kids. It's a catch-22, right? If you had good people in rec to make it a little more like low level travel I think a lot of people would enjoy it.

This isn't about score, either. Our league works hard on parity of play. That just means every team has to deal with the downer kids, which is a pain. It takes a really special core group on each team to set a good tone under those circumstances, and you just don't get that often.

Rec works for some but not others. To each their own except for the PP who thinks nobody need travel because they will never make it long term and kids should never try unless they had a champion parent. Its a Catch 22.

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Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.