Are kids still doing it all? Rise of travel sports and scheduled kids.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

So throw the baby out with the bath water? We all know life isn't fair. I'm sure you can start a foundation to award scholarships for underprivileged kids to play in clubs if you wanted to. But the answer isn't to shut them down so nobody can play.

The baby and the bath water have already been thrown out. There is no rational reason that families SHOULD have to pay multiple thousands of dollars (not just in fees) for their children to play sports with kids that are similarly athletic. The only reason that families do is because they can, and the individuals that profit from the influx of money have done a good job increasing demand by marketing "travel" sports (and the high fees, and costs associated with private lessons, and venue rentals) as the best option for kids to play. It's really absurd that "life isn't fair" can extend to children at play, or that they should need scholarships just to play semi-competitive sports but, unfortunately, that's the reality today.

Nobody has to pay for anything. I have 3 kids. 2 do club/travel sports and 1 has no interest. We can afford it, they love it, so we make it work. There is no "have" to, it's an entirely rational decision.

But they do. The kid that has interest in sports way too often has to pay because cheaper rec leagues have been decimated by families that can afford it. Are your 2 kids that do club sports, great to elite in their respective sports? If so, then yes, club sports is where they would ideally belong. If not, would they have any less fun playing rec leagues IF the rec leagues afforded suitable competition? Each kid differs in what they need. Maybe your kids have the interest, athleticism, talent, and commitment for travel. But a lot of kids that are lacking in those areas don't and would be better suited in robust rec leagues (which I recognize may no longer be viable options)

[Anonymous]

As a mom of 2 kids in MS, I will tell you that there is a strong correlation between (travel) sports/activities and academic performance. It's not 100% of the time but DD's friends and those on her travel soccer team tend to be straight A students. Her friends who don't do much of anything, maybe a rec league sport once a weekend do not do as well in school. Not suggesting that it's the only and best way but I tell you I see it.

I think it has to do with exactly what you are against OP - it is a lot. But there is a routine, a commitment and an understanding that we go all out because we can. This translates somewhat into the "responsibility" of doing well in school. I'm not saying that it's every kid who should be like this but DD hates school yet she's very much aligned with the fact that this is what she's supposed to do - do her best in school. I really think this is helped by having started travel soccer at age 6. She plays through rain, snow, wind, freezing cold and boiling hot. Is it always fun (for me - hell no!!)? Prob not always but she really does enjoy it and let me tell you it truly builds character. I mean lightening will strike her down, soccer will be played LOL I don't always love it because it's like she's pro and she's only 13. BUT - I will say - she and her teammates have grit and good or not good, I don't know that it's a problem for us.

DS at 15 never had travel sports and has a tougher time academically than DD. He probably actually loves school/learning more than DD but in terms of that buy-in to give it his all - DD has that more than him. Could def be personality or gender but on the whole, DD will talk about how much she hates studying until the sun comes up but at the end of the day, she will study and she will get her A.

I share what a lot of PP have said about travel v. rec sports - truly - travel is typically better coached and regulated. It's a commitment financially, effort, timewise. I know a lot of parents who would prefer to relax but it's a different time than when we grew up. The kids have a lot of stuff incl Internet which we never did. Most of their friends are committed in something if not sports. I don't know what DD would do if she didn't have it. I have a love/hate relationship as I feel like it's my 2nd job driving carpools 3x/wk and 3 seasons out of the year BUT at the same time, it's nice to have that commitment. I go back and forth about it but I do think that DD has benefited in many ways from travel soccer.

My kids also play an instrument so there's another activity that includes recitals and other evets related to music. It is a lot of stuff but again, I don't know being online all the time is better for them. It's not like they are going to play with friends in the neighborhood since they are all busy too!

I always say to new parents - yes - the infant and preK years are harder physically but once they are elementary-MS - you end up just as busy driving

[Anonymous]

PS - let me add that as the PP - we obviously did not sign up DD at age 6 for travel soccer so she was going to be a star player nor because we thought she'd be academically more successful being over scheduled. I'm just sharing that the added benefit beyond that she enjoys soccer and it's healthy for her is that her grades are really good and I attribute that to work ethic which is what her current "overscheduling" has given her - I actually don't think it is but some would suggest it. She still has a lot of time to see friends, we host sleepovers, etc. She does not have 4 hours of homework per night - just 60-90 min worth max and we are not committed to every practice/game if we did could not go for whatever reason.

I agree that it's a lot of money - A LOT. But again, having kids and giving them the best experiences is about spending some $. I agree that most of the clubs are in it for $ because it's a business but hey, my kid is getting something out of it so I'm not going to bash the business. Is it really making her a better soccer player, nope. But I'm not in this for a college scholarship - I'm in this for her enjoyment and if it also helps her understand commitment at an early age - it's worth the money!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PS - let me add that as the PP - we obviously did not sign up DD at age 6 for travel soccer so she was going to be a star player nor because we thought she'd be academically more successful being over scheduled. I'm just sharing that the added benefit beyond that she enjoys soccer and it's healthy for her is that her grades are really good and I attribute that to work ethic which is what her current "overscheduling" has given her - I actually don't think it is but some would suggest it. She still has a lot of time to see friends, we host sleepovers, etc. She does not have 4 hours of homework per night - just 60-90 min worth max and we are not committed to every practice/game if we did could not go for whatever reason.

I agree that it's a lot of money - A LOT. But again, having kids and giving them the best experiences is about spending some $. I agree that most of the clubs are in it for $ because it's a business but hey, my kid is getting something out of it so I'm not going to bash the business. Is it really making her a better soccer player, nope. But I'm not in this for a college scholarship - I'm in this for her enjoyment and if it also helps her understand commitment at an early age - it's worth the money!

I'm one of PPs that's been critical of travel sports, but I think this is a healthy outlook. I'm not bashing travel sports with the idea that it can't be beneficial for some. Spoiler: both of my kids, somewhat hypocritically, are on travel teams although they fit a certain profile. I'm bothered that they're viewed by so many as the only/best option for their child and requires so much (time, money, personal commitment) when there should be less restricted alternatives. It sounds like your DD is receiving the intrinsic benefits of sports in a way that works for her. That's wonderful. It's also crazy that a kid/family may have to pick a sport at the age of 6 that can take so much that it leaves limited opportunities to explore/commit to other sports or activities, depending on that family's circumstances. Kudos to you for making it work though.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

So throw the baby out with the bath water? We all know life isn't fair. I'm sure you can start a foundation to award scholarships for underprivileged kids to play in clubs if you wanted to. But the answer isn't to shut them down so nobody can play.

The baby and the bath water have already been thrown out. There is no rational reason that families SHOULD have to pay multiple thousands of dollars (not just in fees) for their children to play sports with kids that are similarly athletic. The only reason that families do is because they can, and the individuals that profit from the influx of money have done a good job increasing demand by marketing "travel" sports (and the high fees, and costs associated with private lessons, and venue rentals) as the best option for kids to play. It's really absurd that "life isn't fair" can extend to children at play, or that they should need scholarships just to play semi-competitive sports but, unfortunately, that's the reality today.

Nobody has to pay for anything. I have 3 kids. 2 do club/travel sports and 1 has no interest. We can afford it, they love it, so we make it work. There is no "have" to, it's an entirely rational decision.

But they do. The kid that has interest in sports way too often has to pay because cheaper rec leagues have been decimated by families that can afford it. Are your 2 kids that do club sports, great to elite in their respective sports? If so, then yes, club sports is where they would ideally belong. If not, would they have any less fun playing rec leagues IF the rec leagues afforded suitable competition? Each kid differs in what they need. Maybe your kids have the interest, athleticism, talent, and commitment for travel. But a lot of kids that are lacking in those areas don't and would be better suited in robust rec leagues (which I recognize may no longer be viable options)

We're talking about sports, right? Nobody has to do sports. It's a want, not a need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our oldest is now heading to college. She wasn't sporty, and focused relentlessly on academics. If she had been sporty, we'd probably be in the travel sports trap. I think we got lucky. She's heading to a T10 national university next year. I say this not to gloat but as a matter of fact. Her lack of scheduling allowed her to focus on homework for 3+ hours per night, and gave her the quiet time to decompress and be creative. Most of her peer group spent most of their time from ages 10-17 doing travel sports. I honestly believe now that it was counterproductive for most of these kids. Most of these parents are now disappointed (some aren't; a few got D1/D3 spots at Ivies, SLACs, etc.) I don't know what they expected; my hunch is these aren't rational decisions, but are more about reliving their glory days and living vicariously through their children. American parents seem to be making very irrational decisions with their children that ending up lining the pockets of shady kids' sports companies, and in the long run are at best neutral for their kids' outcomes and happiness.

Counterproductive?!
Why is it so hard for non sport parents to understand that there are kids out there who absolutely love to play? Some will end up in top schools like your kid, some won’t, but either way if they are doing what they love along the way, more power to them!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

So throw the baby out with the bath water? We all know life isn't fair. I'm sure you can start a foundation to award scholarships for underprivileged kids to play in clubs if you wanted to. But the answer isn't to shut them down so nobody can play.

The baby and the bath water have already been thrown out. There is no rational reason that families SHOULD have to pay multiple thousands of dollars (not just in fees) for their children to play sports with kids that are similarly athletic. The only reason that families do is because they can, and the individuals that profit from the influx of money have done a good job increasing demand by marketing "travel" sports (and the high fees, and costs associated with private lessons, and venue rentals) as the best option for kids to play. It's really absurd that "life isn't fair" can extend to children at play, or that they should need scholarships just to play semi-competitive sports but, unfortunately, that's the reality today.

What’s absurd is thinking that other people are paying thousands because they “have to” (not true for anyone) or because of marketing. They are consumers just like with any other product and if they weren’t satisfied, they would stop paying. People aren’t dumb or misled simply because they spend differently than you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

So throw the baby out with the bath water? We all know life isn't fair. I'm sure you can start a foundation to award scholarships for underprivileged kids to play in clubs if you wanted to. But the answer isn't to shut them down so nobody can play.

The baby and the bath water have already been thrown out. There is no rational reason that families SHOULD have to pay multiple thousands of dollars (not just in fees) for their children to play sports with kids that are similarly athletic. The only reason that families do is because they can, and the individuals that profit from the influx of money have done a good job increasing demand by marketing "travel" sports (and the high fees, and costs associated with private lessons, and venue rentals) as the best option for kids to play. It's really absurd that "life isn't fair" can extend to children at play, or that they should need scholarships just to play semi-competitive sports but, unfortunately, that's the reality today.

Nobody has to pay for anything. I have 3 kids. 2 do club/travel sports and 1 has no interest. We can afford it, they love it, so we make it work. There is no "have" to, it's an entirely rational decision.

But they do. The kid that has interest in sports way too often has to pay because cheaper rec leagues have been decimated by families that can afford it. Are your 2 kids that do club sports, great to elite in their respective sports? If so, then yes, club sports is where they would ideally belong. If not, would they have any less fun playing rec leagues IF the rec leagues afforded suitable competition? Each kid differs in what they need. Maybe your kids have the interest, athleticism, talent, and commitment for travel. But a lot of kids that are lacking in those areas don't and would be better suited in robust rec leagues (which I recognize may no longer be viable options)

It’s unrealistic to think that every rec league can be both instructional/foundational for those new to the sport or needing skills training yet also be competitive for the dedicated and athletic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PS - let me add that as the PP - we obviously did not sign up DD at age 6 for travel soccer so she was going to be a star player nor because we thought she'd be academically more successful being over scheduled. I'm just sharing that the added benefit beyond that she enjoys soccer and it's healthy for her is that her grades are really good and I attribute that to work ethic which is what her current "overscheduling" has given her - I actually don't think it is but some would suggest it. She still has a lot of time to see friends, we host sleepovers, etc. She does not have 4 hours of homework per night - just 60-90 min worth max and we are not committed to every practice/game if we did could not go for whatever reason.

I agree that it's a lot of money - A LOT. But again, having kids and giving them the best experiences is about spending some $. I agree that most of the clubs are in it for $ because it's a business but hey, my kid is getting something out of it so I'm not going to bash the business. Is it really making her a better soccer player, nope. But I'm not in this for a college scholarship - I'm in this for her enjoyment and if it also helps her understand commitment at an early age - it's worth the money!

I'm one of PPs that's been critical of travel sports, but I think this is a healthy outlook. I'm not bashing travel sports with the idea that it can't be beneficial for some. Spoiler: both of my kids, somewhat hypocritically, are on travel teams although they fit a certain profile. I'm bothered that they're viewed by so many as the only/best option for their child and requires so much (time, money, personal commitment) when there should be less restricted alternatives. It sounds like your DD is receiving the intrinsic benefits of sports in a way that works for her. That's wonderful. It's also crazy that a kid/family may have to pick a sport at the age of 6 that can take so much that it leaves limited opportunities to explore/commit to other sports or activities, depending on that family's circumstances. Kudos to you for making it work though.

PP here and I appreciate your comments. On why she started soccer and continues this is a kid won't age 6 ASKED to do rec + jr academy which is the precursor to travel. Yes - I was surprised because I gave her the option of either not both! We are not even a soccer family - I never thought I'd have a kid in a sport! She said to me - mom - how can I get better without someone teaching me how to play? I want to do academy. But I love being with my friends so I want to play rec. so we did both and it was ltruly a ton of soccer! But again this is something she very logically decided upon. It worked out and she is a natural. I cannot for the record get her to play any other sport because as she puts it - soccers my sport - why do I need another one? And again I see no problem with her turning down other athletic opportunities because ultimately we are doing specifically travel soccer bevause of her enjoyment. I have her in music because I believe in the balance of athletics for your body but music for your brain as I was a music teacher at one point in my life.

My point on this thread is to share that travel sports is neither a good or bad thing and an over scheduled kid to some isn't really one of you at the big picture. I don't think it's right for OP or anyone to assume families who have kids oriented to multi sports are one thing or another.

I think kids who study 3 hrs a day like the other poster is nuts. I would much rather my kid not spend 1/2 night on homework whether she gets into Harvard or not- I simply don't think it's healthy. But I also think people are built differently and if that's what floats her kids boat, good for them. I think people are different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More parents ought to watch chasing childhood. It's really an eye opener.

It is totally possible to find a balance and give kids time to play while letting them be competitive at a sport, play an instrument well enough to enhance their enjoyment of music, and still do OK in school. Note I didn't say play on a showcase tournament team, go to Juliard, and be the valedictorian. I just said kids can have a few activities and still have time to play.

That’s the normal way of thinking. But there are too many delusional parents who think it’s possible for their child because he’s gifted. The type who don’t want any child playing that might not be what they consider good enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

So throw the baby out with the bath water? We all know life isn't fair. I'm sure you can start a foundation to award scholarships for underprivileged kids to play in clubs if you wanted to. But the answer isn't to shut them down so nobody can play.

The baby and the bath water have already been thrown out. There is no rational reason that families SHOULD have to pay multiple thousands of dollars (not just in fees) for their children to play sports with kids that are similarly athletic. The only reason that families do is because they can, and the individuals that profit from the influx of money have done a good job increasing demand by marketing "travel" sports (and the high fees, and costs associated with private lessons, and venue rentals) as the best option for kids to play. It's really absurd that "life isn't fair" can extend to children at play, or that they should need scholarships just to play semi-competitive sports but, unfortunately, that's the reality today.

Nobody has to pay for anything. I have 3 kids. 2 do club/travel sports and 1 has no interest. We can afford it, they love it, so we make it work. There is no "have" to, it's an entirely rational decision.

Well, depends on what the PP meant by "have." If a player can't find halfway decent competition in rec, then to find peers they "have" to play travel. If a player is athletic but untrained, then to get better they "have" to find better coaching. And if the player is below the poverty line, where's that money coming from? Or maybe someone could scrape money together, but time is a problem because parents are unwilling/unable and there's nobody nearby who can carpool. And the local rec league has kids from the same school, but they all really don't care. I don't think anyone can argue that travel doesn't present more barriers to play than if most kids who cared and many good-but-low-level travel coaches stayed in rec.

My example is basketball. Kids who are talented and love the game practice all the time. They play in middle school and are quickly noticed, their coach gets in an invite to join national leagues on full scholarship. The programs have plenty of money to subsidize the talents because so many parents sign their kids up and pay a lot of money.

Money does probably get in the way of some. But if you have a 6’4” 8th grader you know he’ll be looked at closely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

So throw the baby out with the bath water? We all know life isn't fair. I'm sure you can start a foundation to award scholarships for underprivileged kids to play in clubs if you wanted to. But the answer isn't to shut them down so nobody can play.

Those clubs have two goals. To make money and to find the best talent they can find which increases the club’s reputation. They do get scholarships. These clubs work for lower income kids too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a mom of 2 kids in MS, I will tell you that there is a strong correlation between (travel) sports/activities and academic performance. It's not 100% of the time but DD's friends and those on her travel soccer team tend to be straight A students. Her friends who don't do much of anything, maybe a rec league sport once a weekend do not do as well in school. Not suggesting that it's the only and best way but I tell you I see it.

DS at 15 never had travel sports and has a tougher time academically than DD. He tuff incl don't know being online all the time is better for them. It's not like they are going to play with friends in the neighborhood since they are all busy too!

I’m sorry. No. And pretty offensive too. Sports has many positive effects on kids but to claim just because your daughter and her friends play soccer that they all have As and her friends who do rec do not do as well? How would you know.

I know too many former professional players who are dumb as rocks. Also hockey players I was friends with and dated, great at hockey. Not so much academic. But my anecdotes don’t speak to every former athlete. Just the ones I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

So throw the baby out with the bath water? We all know life isn't fair. I'm sure you can start a foundation to award scholarships for underprivileged kids to play in clubs if you wanted to. But the answer isn't to shut them down so nobody can play.

The baby and the bath water have already been thrown out. There is no rational reason that families SHOULD have to pay multiple thousands of dollars (not just in fees) for their children to play sports with kids that are similarly athletic. The only reason that families do is because they can, and the individuals that profit from the influx of money have done a good job increasing demand by marketing "travel" sports (and the high fees, and costs associated with private lessons, and venue rentals) as the best option for kids to play. It's really absurd that "life isn't fair" can extend to children at play, or that they should need scholarships just to play semi-competitive sports but, unfortunately, that's the reality today.

Nobody has to pay for anything. I have 3 kids. 2 do club/travel sports and 1 has no interest. We can afford it, they love it, so we make it work. There is no "have" to, it's an entirely rational decision.

But they do. The kid that has interest in sports way too often has to pay because cheaper rec leagues have been decimated by families that can afford it. Are your 2 kids that do club sports, great to elite in their respective sports? If so, then yes, club sports is where they would ideally belong. If not, would they have any less fun playing rec leagues IF the rec leagues afforded suitable competition? Each kid differs in what they need. Maybe your kids have the interest, athleticism, talent, and commitment for travel. But a lot of kids that are lacking in those areas don't and would be better suited in robust rec leagues (which I recognize may no longer be viable options)

It’s unrealistic to think that every rec league can be both instructional/foundational for those new to the sport or needing skills training yet also be competitive for the dedicated and athletic.

You know, this is a fair point. My kids' (quite decent) rec coaches have been not-too-subtly hoping that late elementary is when new kids stop joining so they can really focus on advanced skills...and it hasn't happened yet.

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Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

So throw the baby out with the bath water? We all know life isn't fair. I'm sure you can start a foundation to award scholarships for underprivileged kids to play in clubs if you wanted to. But the answer isn't to shut them down so nobody can play.

The baby and the bath water have already been thrown out. There is no rational reason that families SHOULD have to pay multiple thousands of dollars (not just in fees) for their children to play sports with kids that are similarly athletic. The only reason that families do is because they can, and the individuals that profit from the influx of money have done a good job increasing demand by marketing "travel" sports (and the high fees, and costs associated with private lessons, and venue rentals) as the best option for kids to play. It's really absurd that "life isn't fair" can extend to children at play, or that they should need scholarships just to play semi-competitive sports but, unfortunately, that's the reality today.

Nobody has to pay for anything. I have 3 kids. 2 do club/travel sports and 1 has no interest. We can afford it, they love it, so we make it work. There is no "have" to, it's an entirely rational decision.

But they do. The kid that has interest in sports way too often has to pay because cheaper rec leagues have been decimated by families that can afford it. Are your 2 kids that do club sports, great to elite in their respective sports? If so, then yes, club sports is where they would ideally belong. If not, would they have any less fun playing rec leagues IF the rec leagues afforded suitable competition? Each kid differs in what they need. Maybe your kids have the interest, athleticism, talent, and commitment for travel. But a lot of kids that are lacking in those areas don't and would be better suited in robust rec leagues (which I recognize may no longer be viable options)

It’s unrealistic to think that every rec league can be both instructional/foundational for those new to the sport or needing skills training yet also be competitive for the dedicated and athletic.

You know, this is a fair point. My kids' (quite decent) rec coaches have been not-too-subtly hoping that late elementary is when new kids stop joining so they can really focus on advanced skills...and it hasn't happened yet.

Where are 10 year olds supposed to go.?