Are kids still doing it all? Rise of travel sports and scheduled kids.

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Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

So throw the baby out with the bath water? We all know life isn't fair. I'm sure you can start a foundation to award scholarships for underprivileged kids to play in clubs if you wanted to. But the answer isn't to shut them down so nobody can play.

The baby and the bath water have already been thrown out. There is no rational reason that families SHOULD have to pay multiple thousands of dollars (not just in fees) for their children to play sports with kids that are similarly athletic. The only reason that families do is because they can, and the individuals that profit from the influx of money have done a good job increasing demand by marketing "travel" sports (and the high fees, and costs associated with private lessons, and venue rentals) as the best option for kids to play. It's really absurd that "life isn't fair" can extend to children at play, or that they should need scholarships just to play semi-competitive sports but, unfortunately, that's the reality today.

Nobody has to pay for anything. I have 3 kids. 2 do club/travel sports and 1 has no interest. We can afford it, they love it, so we make it work. There is no "have" to, it's an entirely rational decision.

But they do. The kid that has interest in sports way too often has to pay because cheaper rec leagues have been decimated by families that can afford it. Are your 2 kids that do club sports, great to elite in their respective sports? If so, then yes, club sports is where they would ideally belong. If not, would they have any less fun playing rec leagues IF the rec leagues afforded suitable competition? Each kid differs in what they need. Maybe your kids have the interest, athleticism, talent, and commitment for travel. But a lot of kids that are lacking in those areas don't and would be better suited in robust rec leagues (which I recognize may no longer be viable options)

It’s unrealistic to think that every rec league can be both instructional/foundational for those new to the sport or needing skills training yet also be competitive for the dedicated and athletic.

You know, this is a fair point. My kids' (quite decent) rec coaches have been not-too-subtly hoping that late elementary is when new kids stop joining so they can really focus on advanced skills...and it hasn't happened yet.

Where are 10 year olds supposed to go.?

To rec. The coaches were snobs, though good at coaching. But it's a fair point that if new kids are always coming in then it's harder to work on advanced skills. And maybe that's where you say travel's really beneficial.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:70% of kids dropout of sports by the age of 13.


There’s an interesting article that describes why -

“ parents invest significant time and money in their kids to train with teams and buy their uniforms. They expect “results." They drive them all over to year-round sports, sometimes more than one during the same season. Oftentimes, perhaps unintentionally, they drive them out of sports entirely.

For a lot of kids, it comes down to the fact that sports become less fun and more about the concept of what success is from more of an adult’s eyes than a child’s eyes,” Moffatt says. "Kids want to stay active, play and have fun with their friends, and winning and losing is something that they care less about.”

About 70 % of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13 and the so-called “professionalization of youth sports” can’t be understated as a significant factor why, according to a new report released Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).


“In addition, the pressure to succeed at a young age, as well as the perception that this is the most efficacious route to future athletic success, further leads to high volumes of training and loss of enjoyment in sport, both of which can contribute to widespread burnout and attrition among youth athletes.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/01/22/70-of-kids-drop-out-of-youth-sports-by-13-new-aap-study-reveals-why/72310189007/

Every time I read these articles I just think to myself: are the authors totally hallucinating and do they not know what high school is like these days? The reason the kids quit at that age is because we make it so difficult to make the high school sports teams at that age and then they choose do other extracurriculars at school if they can’t make the team.

It’s not just these days it’s been that way for decades. Maybe more kids would stick with it if there were more options. But there’s no denying pushy parents do ruin it for some kids who want low key fun.

Do most kids really want low key fun? As kids play more and get better they want to play with better kids. The kids who show up to have fun and don’t know the rules or make a lot of mistakes don't really make it fun for the kids who care.

I don’t know how many kids just want low key fun but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to play the game or they aren’t good.

Don’t the travel teams put them on teams according to ability?
My point is these games are a recreational activity. Sometimes parents ruin it.

Any kids playing on a travel team other than the top (or arguably top 2) teams in any given organization would be better served playing rec ball. Those "average" teams use to be the majority of rec leagues. They've been consumed into travel organizations because parents were willing to pay with the idea that they could move up to elite levels with the right investment.

Why do you assume every organization has multiple teams? We play travel baseball. There's one team per age group. People aren't going back to rec ball and dealing with the daddy ball issues and poor coaching. Not worth the time or the little money spent on it.

Are you talking about town travel teams? They are a step up from town rec teams and you have to try out, true.

I was thinking more about the businesses including summer programs and travel teams not related to a specific town have different levels.
These companies are not turning away from paying customers. There’s also big competition for summer programs. They want their programs filled. .

No I'm not talking about town travel teams. What are you talking about? Maybe you should be more clear about what sport you're talking about because what you're describing doesn't describe the sport we're playing and how the business works.

I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing basketball. My niece started in travel teams in the sixth grade. There were travel town teams and for profit travel teams. She would join a travel team based on my sister’s schedule. She played all four years of varsity basketball.

The town rec team doesn’t always involve training. They just throw them out to play and of course they aren’t that good with no proper training. But it’s a good way to see if the kid likes it. And it’s not true that the kids don’t care. Next level might be the town travel team which has more instruction and more playing.

So other options are try out for your town travel team or find an outside business who has leagues.

AAU is an example. On their website they write -

“ The coaches and staff of these programs are dedicated to helping their players reach their full potential. Whether you are looking for a competitive environment to hone your skills or just a fun way to stay active, these programs have something for everyone.”

Nike has basketball camps, Adidas has basketball camps. The talented ones play national leagues televised while the good ones play local.

There are many options for children’s sports, all sports.

All of your information is about basketball and only your niece’s experience?

My 6th grader dd decided she likes basketball so I’ve been looking into it. I’ve found some quality programs that take beginners through top players. That’s what I’m focused on basketball. I gave one example but have many more as I’m sure you do. My older daughter’s friends who played year round and overnight summer camps didn’t make their varsity teams. These were males. I can’t get into every experience. Too boring. For every story there’s an opposite one for someone else

As for other sports I only have old information. Back in the days when parents were hands off until middle school. Kids played at local courts, local fields, local frozen lakes. Then middle school teams might recognize some early talent. I have two family members who went pro, one football, one lacrosse. I don’t remember any special training outside of school.

My niece is 5’11” which was a plus for varsity. You can spend tens of thousands on special training starting at kindergarten but if your son only makes it to 6’ and doesn’t have any extraordinary skill he won’t get far. Just hopefully the child had a great time and wasn’t pressured.

Why do you care what other people do with their time and money?

Different poster...I don't care what your family does in the micro. I understand doing what's best for you family.

My problem is that DCUM is made up of people that overwhelmingly can afford travel sorts easily and it's not a big deal. But given that playing sports is beneficial for children, I think it's a societal fail that many of them are priced out from being able to play in competitive leagues.

So throw the baby out with the bath water? We all know life isn't fair. I'm sure you can start a foundation to award scholarships for underprivileged kids to play in clubs if you wanted to. But the answer isn't to shut them down so nobody can play.

The baby and the bath water have already been thrown out. There is no rational reason that families SHOULD have to pay multiple thousands of dollars (not just in fees) for their children to play sports with kids that are similarly athletic. The only reason that families do is because they can, and the individuals that profit from the influx of money have done a good job increasing demand by marketing "travel" sports (and the high fees, and costs associated with private lessons, and venue rentals) as the best option for kids to play. It's really absurd that "life isn't fair" can extend to children at play, or that they should need scholarships just to play semi-competitive sports but, unfortunately, that's the reality today.

Nobody has to pay for anything. I have 3 kids. 2 do club/travel sports and 1 has no interest. We can afford it, they love it, so we make it work. There is no "have" to, it's an entirely rational decision.

But they do. The kid that has interest in sports way too often has to pay because cheaper rec leagues have been decimated by families that can afford it. Are your 2 kids that do club sports, great to elite in their respective sports? If so, then yes, club sports is where they would ideally belong. If not, would they have any less fun playing rec leagues IF the rec leagues afforded suitable competition? Each kid differs in what they need. Maybe your kids have the interest, athleticism, talent, and commitment for travel. But a lot of kids that are lacking in those areas don't and would be better suited in robust rec leagues (which I recognize may no longer be viable options)

It’s unrealistic to think that every rec league can be both instructional/foundational for those new to the sport or needing skills training yet also be competitive for the dedicated and athletic.

You know, this is a fair point. My kids' (quite decent) rec coaches have been not-too-subtly hoping that late elementary is when new kids stop joining so they can really focus on advanced skills...and it hasn't happened yet.

Where are 10 year olds supposed to go.?

To rec. The coaches were snobs, though good at coaching. But it's a fair point that if new kids are always coming in then it's harder to work on advanced skills. And maybe that's where you say travel's really beneficial.

These lbasketball businesses have everything from beginner through advanced. They wouldn’t put beginners with advanced. If you are in a club that does that it’s probably too small to form many teams according to ability.