Anyone’s kid apply to more than 20 schools?

[Anonymous]

NP.

Rigorous and Competitive Private school outside DMV (with many Ivy admits already):

This is an odd conversation.

Don’t schools have different priorities? Some might need a (top stats) kid with your kids’ major /skills/ special pointy EC interests, while others won’t?

That’s why applying widely and not falling in love with any school is recommended.

25-30 schools is the new normal if your kid is not 3.9+ uw - and more like 3.77-3.9…..i have been told these are the kids that need to apply more widely than others……

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP.

Rigorous and Competitive Private school outside DMV (with many Ivy admits already):

This is an odd conversation.

Don’t schools have different priorities? Some might need a (top stats) kid with your kids’ major /skills/ special pointy EC interests, while others won’t?

That’s why applying widely and not falling in love with any school is recommended.

25-30 schools is the new normal if your kid is not 3.9+ uw - and more like 3.77-3.9…..i have been told these are the kids that need to apply more widely than others……

I have a Senior (private school) with an uw 4.0/4.5, 35 ACT, all 5 APs—-and I know of nobody that applied to that many schools. My kid probably applied to the most of any friends, classmates at 17 apps.

He originally had about 7-10, but over break added a bunch more reaches only.

[Anonymous]

Everyone please report back in April once there is a clearer picture of how all of these deferrals pan out for your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP.

Rigorous and Competitive Private school outside DMV (with many Ivy admits already):

This is an odd conversation.

Don’t schools have different priorities? Some might need a (top stats) kid with your kids’ major /skills/ special pointy EC interests, while others won’t?

That’s why applying widely and not falling in love with any school is recommended.

25-30 schools is the new normal if your kid is not 3.9+ uw - and more like 3.77-3.9…..i have been told these are the kids that need to apply more widely than others……

Why are admit rates in single digits I say as DC applies to literally every T50.

It must be because of TO, certainly my own behavior has nothing to do with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP.

Rigorous and Competitive Private school outside DMV (with many Ivy admits already):

This is an odd conversation.

Don’t schools have different priorities? Some might need a (top stats) kid with your kids’ major /skills/ special pointy EC interests, while others won’t?

That’s why applying widely and not falling in love with any school is recommended.

25-30 schools is the new normal if your kid is not 3.9+ uw - and more like 3.77-3.9…..i have been told these are the kids that need to apply more widely than others……

I have a Senior (private school) with an uw 4.0/4.5, 35 ACT, all 5 APs—-and I know of nobody that applied to that many schools. My kid probably applied to the most of any friends, classmates at 17 apps.

He originally had about 7-10, but over break added a bunch more reaches only.

Let me know how your kid found a dozen great schools that would all be an excellent match for them and all are roughly equivalent in size, cost, location, faculty, academic offerings, and student life.

Explain it without using the words “prestige” or “rank”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:May I summarize what is happening here?

Top stat kids are in a position where they need to apply 20+ colleges in order to get in anywhere they feel they deserved to be in.

Top stat kids (top 10% of any high schools)are more or less applying the same list of schools- top50 U and top 30 LAC. And schools in the big cities (Boston, NYC, LA)and nice towns get very popular.

Their application more or less all look similar.
It’s literally about who gets to read it and find it intriguing. Basically random luck. Fit might be important but it’s actually a luxury in this climate.

Yes, you need a handful of targets and safeties. But apply as many reach as you can and choose from where you get in. Then you can talk about the fit amongst where you got in.

Again, I’m talking about top stat kid who didn’t make it to ED or EA at desired schools.

Key issues is "Top stat kids are in a position where they need to apply 20+ colleges in order to get in anywhere they feel they deserved to be in."

They need to rethink "where they feel they deserve to be in"

At the core that is the issue. So many with "top stats" feel they must attend a T25-30 school. Once you get over that mindset, you can run a much better process. Why would you randomly apply to T25 schools just because "you deserve to be there"? Why not search and find places you actually want to be? You are approaching the process incorrectly, IMO. Putting prestige (based loosely on an antiquated rankings system) at the top rather than actually searching quality for your kid---where will they fit in, where will they be happy, because that is where they will excel the most. There is no way more than 3-4 schools in the T20 are all "the perfect/best school" for any single kid. Each university is so different.

Why do you think they want anything less than they deserve?
They skipped two math levels and finishing high school with Multi-variables.
They took 8+ APs and got 5s from most.
They put years and years of hard work in their ECs.
They are ambitious and competitive.
They researched and they actually want to be at top 25!
Prestige is what ambitious kids want!
Not applying many reach schools is just giving up after all the hard work.
For what? So you won’t get disappointed?

And when they get shut out from T25, then what?

Of course you need a handful of safeties and targets.
That’s given.
We are talking about 10-12 reach schools they need to apply on top of that.
Build the list from bottom up.
3 safeties, 3 targets, then fill it up with reaches you like and really work on the essays.

Nobody needs to apply to 10-12 reach schools.

Why not apply to mostly match schools with a handful of reaches?

Everyone here utterly convinced they are due to win the lottery

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This paragraph in this article https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/07/briefing/the-misguided-war-on-the-sat.html

tells us the state of admissions without standardized scores. It is a lottery! If it is a lottery don't you want more tickets which means more applications? The price of the ticket is time spent filling out more applications and extreme stress for the kids.

Comeaux — a professor of higher education at the University of California, Riverside, and co-chair of the state’s review of standardized tests — favors this approach. He agrees that the SAT and ACT predict later success. But he prefers a stripped-down admissions system in which colleges set minimum requirements, based largely on high school grades, and then admit students by lottery. “Having a lottery,” Comeaux said, “would make us radically rethink what it means to gain access and also to learn, rather than accepting the status quo.”

You want more tickets in the SAME DRAWING to improve your odds.

Applying to 20 schools is playing 20 DIFFERENT lotteries. They are independent draws.

Statistically it does not change your chances much. Much like buying 1 vs 10 tickets to the powerball. the changes are insignificant.

In this case you are still applying to schools with single digit acceptance rates, and you chance is single digits at each school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone gets knocked down a tier. When UW 4.0/35+ACTgreat ACTs are getting denied and deferred EA/ED they start applying to more schools T30-65.

Now kids that normally would get in those schools are getting knocked down a tier and so and so on.

You can’t blame the high stats kids for getting shut out of top schools and reaching down. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

If you curate a good list of reaches, targets and true safeties/likelies, then you do not need to apply to 20+ schools. Just because you have high stats does not mean you should apply to 7-10 T25 schools. Search to find the 3-5 that are an excellent fit, then find 3-5 targets and another 3-5 safeties. That's 9-15 schools at most. Then show demonstrated interest at all of them, but especially your targets and safeties. If you do it correctly, you should get into at least 50% of your targets and 75-100% of your safeties.

My own 1500/3.99UW/9APs/Good EC but not stupendous had it go this way:

ED1 T10, deferred and ultimately rejected (acceptance rate less than 7%)
T30--WL (single digit acceptance rates)
3 T30-50 Accepted
1 T60 Accepted, but go abroad for first year (single digit acceptance rates)
1 T70 Accepted with excellent merit (30% of total costs/year)---Top Safety
Accepted at the other 3 safeties as well

So as my kid says, they were only rejected from 1 school outright.
They are at one of the T30-50 schools, of course the one without any merit, but the one I knew was probably the best fit for my kid from the moment they set foot on campus. Each visit they just lit up and you could see the excitement. So this was actually a better place then their 3 reaches.

Sorry to say, but with those stats to be shut out so broadly from T1-T30 sounds like the school is known for grade inflation. A 3.9 out of a Sitwell or Saint Albans would be a totally different picture.
Glad your DC is happy at their T30-T50! Seems like a good fit.

Students from Sidwell/St Albans are accepted more readily not because of their academic preparation, but because they are full pay and perhaps legacy and colleges may have a longstanding relationship with the school.

The poster you are replying to clearly has a strong student. But, like others have said, there are strong students everywhere, and it’s just competitive. Sounds like it worked out perfectly for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP.

Rigorous and Competitive Private school outside DMV (with many Ivy admits already):

This is an odd conversation.

Don’t schools have different priorities? Some might need a (top stats) kid with your kids’ major /skills/ special pointy EC interests, while others won’t?

That’s why applying widely and not falling in love with any school is recommended.

25-30 schools is the new normal if your kid is not 3.9+ uw - and more like 3.77-3.9…..i have been told these are the kids that need to apply more widely than others……

I have a Senior (private school) with an uw 4.0/4.5, 35 ACT, all 5 APs—-and I know of nobody that applied to that many schools. My kid probably applied to the most of any friends, classmates at 17 apps.

He originally had about 7-10, but over break added a bunch more reaches only.

But he has a 4.0 unweighted. At a private school. What about the kids below him… They’re the ones who should’ve applied to more schools - not him……

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This paragraph in this article https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/07/briefing/the-misguided-war-on-the-sat.html

tells us the state of admissions without standardized scores. It is a lottery! If it is a lottery don't you want more tickets which means more applications? The price of the ticket is time spent filling out more applications and extreme stress for the kids.

Comeaux — a professor of higher education at the University of California, Riverside, and co-chair of the state’s review of standardized tests — favors this approach. He agrees that the SAT and ACT predict later success. But he prefers a stripped-down admissions system in which colleges set minimum requirements, based largely on high school grades, and then admit students by lottery. “Having a lottery,” Comeaux said, “would make us radically rethink what it means to gain access and also to learn, rather than accepting the status quo.”

You want more tickets in the SAME DRAWING to improve your odds.

Applying to 20 schools is playing 20 DIFFERENT lotteries. They are independent draws.

Statistically it does not change your chances much. Much like buying 1 vs 10 tickets to the powerball. the changes are insignificant.

In this case you are still applying to schools with single digit acceptance rates, and you chance is single digits at each school.

Math is math, and they are independent events - but the problem is you can't calculate how it increases your odds to apply to more because you can't know what your chances are at any one college. They are likely not equal to the overall acceptance rate, so that number does not help in the game theory calculation.

It works with dice or a deck of cards (or powerball), but you can't know what the increase is in something like college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This paragraph in this article https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/07/briefing/the-misguided-war-on-the-sat.html

tells us the state of admissions without standardized scores. It is a lottery! If it is a lottery don't you want more tickets which means more applications? The price of the ticket is time spent filling out more applications and extreme stress for the kids.

Comeaux — a professor of higher education at the University of California, Riverside, and co-chair of the state’s review of standardized tests — favors this approach. He agrees that the SAT and ACT predict later success. But he prefers a stripped-down admissions system in which colleges set minimum requirements, based largely on high school grades, and then admit students by lottery. “Having a lottery,” Comeaux said, “would make us radically rethink what it means to gain access and also to learn, rather than accepting the status quo.”

You want more tickets in the SAME DRAWING to improve your odds.

Applying to 20 schools is playing 20 DIFFERENT lotteries. They are independent draws.

Statistically it does not change your chances much. Much like buying 1 vs 10 tickets to the powerball. the changes are insignificant.

In this case you are still applying to schools with single digit acceptance rates, and you chance is single digits at each school.

Math is math, and they are independent events - but the problem is you can't calculate how it increases your odds to apply to more because you can't know what your chances are at any one college. They are likely not equal to the overall acceptance rate, so that number does not help in the game theory calculation.

It works with dice or a deck of cards (or powerball), but you can't know what the increase is in something like college admissions.

A logical discussion about how probability works is not going to cure the emotional problem driving the panic over a make-believe crisis. What’s the worst case scenario? DC attends the 89th best school (out of 3500)?

I also think a lot of the stress comes from legitimately holistic admissions where many parents want a DEFINITE ANSWER on odds and it just doesn’t work that way, as you astutely point out.

Anyway I’m going to have my kid apply to all 347 schools in the Princeton Review guide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hearing 25-30 not that uncommon (and opening the secondary account) for boys who got dinged in ED….

Key word - boys.

Don’t do it.
If you don’t get in anywhere, go to a good community college and transfer up.

[Anonymous]

How about people just mind their own business? Why is everybody here so invested in what everybody else is doing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hearing 25-30 not that uncommon (and opening the secondary account) for boys who got dinged in ED….

What is a secondary account?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP.

Rigorous and Competitive Private school outside DMV (with many Ivy admits already):

This is an odd conversation.

Don’t schools have different priorities? Some might need a (top stats) kid with your kids’ major /skills/ special pointy EC interests, while others won’t?

That’s why applying widely and not falling in love with any school is recommended.

25-30 schools is the new normal if your kid is not 3.9+ uw - and more like 3.77-3.9…..i have been told these are the kids that need to apply more widely than others……

I have a Senior (private school) with an uw 4.0/4.5, 35 ACT, all 5 APs—-and I know of nobody that applied to that many schools. My kid probably applied to the most of any friends, classmates at 17 apps.

He originally had about 7-10, but over break added a bunch more reaches only.

Let me know how your kid found a dozen great schools that would all be an excellent match for them and all are roughly equivalent in size, cost, location, faculty, academic offerings, and student life.

Explain it without using the words “prestige” or “rank”

Picked the top 10 in his field of study. They all are very similar in size and location (no bigger than 7k students). And not too far from home (no West Coast). The next 7 are lower tier safety type--he's been to visit all. None are big on frat life or super football schools, etc.

He also had a few because he may be able to play his sport if accepted (preferred walk-on type thing). An injury all of junior year screwed up his recruiting and he is contact with some of those coaches ---so he had to apply--can't get in if he doesn't apply. with the sport thing in the mix--it necessitated a few more schools.

It was a very well thought out list. There are 4 that are 5 min from our house.