FAFSA - is middle-class waste time applying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

No necessarily true! 300k sounds a lot. But after tax, medical and retirement deduction, it is lucky if could take home half of it. With other kids to support, who can afford to use 50% of take home money paying for one kid’s college expenses?

+1

We are paying for two college tuitions right now, at OOS schools with merit aid. There is NO WAY we could pay for an expensive, private college without feeling the effects of it. We don’t take lavish vacations nor live beyond our means — a good chunk of our money goes into retirement accounts and ensuring we have ample savings in the event of a shutdown.

PPs premise assumes they've saved nothing. That is the issue here. At 300K, and saving over 10+ years, you should be able to afford it. No one is expecting cashflow to cover.

And they were probably making $175-250 for a long time.

I’m the PP who posted about how our income increased at a high rate over 7 years before kids and how we banked the vast majority of it. Kids increase expenditures but saving for the future can precede their arrival. That cushion allowed us to help out one of our families, etc. and not necessarily imperil saving for college.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

$300k puts you in a 30% combined tax bracket if you live in MD, about 27% in VA. Don't forget, SALT deductions are limited, so you will probably take the standard deduction.

If you are 50+, you want to max out your 401k contribution and add the catch up extra $7500, which brings it to like $30K per person.

So, your income will look something like this:

1. 60K 401k (assuming both are 50+ and contributing the max, which you should at that income level)
2. taxes around $60K to $65K

That leaves you with 300K - 120k = $180k.

Let's say your annual expenses is something like $100K/yr in just expenses. You would have $80k left. But that just pays for room and board. Travel and other costs will rack up more. That's just one kid. Many of us have more than one kid who will be in college at the same time.

You will also not have any wiggle room for large emergency expenses or even vacation. If your car breaks down (like ours just did), you'd have to get a loan at 6% to 7%.

My DC is at the state flagship with some merit aid. We told this DC, who had super high stats, to not do ED at the expensive colleges. We cannot afford it, yes, even with $300K per year. It would leave us with so little wiggle room, that we'd be eating hand to mouth for the next 7 years -- we have two kids, and DH is 60. We have enough in the 529s for in state. That would barely cover 2 years of private.

I think you are the one who needs a dose of reality.

NP: I personally wouldn't pay $80K for college--don't think it is worth it for 99% of colleges; however, your analysis leaves out any savings (for emergencies, etc.) and a 529 or investments/assets that could be used to pay for college. Your assumption is that the family is cashflowing the entire cost per year. I also wouldn't max out 401k for 4-5 years while 1-2 kids are in college if your 401k is already at a healthy amount.

Yes, I made the assumption that the PP stated they could pay for private college with $300HHI because they didn't state that.

If our 529 had $250K+, sure, but I don't think the PP has that much in their 529.

Like I said, we have enough for in state in our 529, but at $80/year with two kids, we'd still have to cash flow at least $300K.

And I disagree about not maxing out retirement. What is a "healthy" amount in retirement ? We aren't feds, so we have to pay for our own health insurance. I'm not planning to work until I'm 65.

You can always borrow to pay for college; can't do that for retirement.

Again, you are making life choices.. if you will not work until 65, which is what you project you'll need to, you need to change your lifestyle or accept your kids cannot go to any school you/they want.

well, duh, of course it's about life choices, but the PP thought $300K was plenty to pay for $80k/year private. My point is that it's really not unless you ONLY save for college, have one child, and don't want to go on vacations (and I'm not even talking about luxury vacations), or buy a new car, or have reasonable emergency savings, or live in a good school cluster (public not private).

We don't drive expensive cars, I drive a subaru. My spouse is from the UK, and we go see their family every couple of years. My family lives out west, so we go see them the other years. Family of four. Do you know how expensive that gets. I suppose I could prioritize college savings, and not see our elderly parents biannually.

yes, it's all about life choices. My kids have learned that. My DC now in college has learned that going to an expensive school outside of T10 is not a good deal. That spending $300K+ for four years just so you like the feel of the campus for 4 years is shortsighted. If you take out loans for those expensive four years, you'll be paying off that loan for the next 20 years.

But, those are our opinions and our choices.

I mean, this is demonstrably untrue? We earn more than $100K less a year than you, have two kids, have tons of emergency savings, have enough in retirement savings to retire early if we want to, and are saving enough for college to cover well over half of the price of the most expensive colleges (should be able to cashflow the rest pretty easily, especially since we'll be done paying off our 15-year mortgage by then.) Not sure why you can't do this at your much higher income. Are you one of those "only the most prestigious public schools are good enough for my kids, so clearly we must spend 7 figures on a house" kind of people? Are you way over-saving for retirement at the expense of college?

Nope. We don't live in the best school cluster. It's a good school cluster, but not the best in the district. We did not pay $1mil for the house. I would never do that. One of the reasons I didn't want to live in the "best" school cluster was because I didn't want my kids around that much wealth.[twitter]

I bet you are a fed with good health insurance. Have you tried private insurance for the past 20 years with large medical bills?

Our HHI has not always been $300k, btw, but FAFSA doesn't look at what your income was 3 years ago.

And what do you mean by "oversaving for retirement at the expense of college"? We've been putting in more than $2500 per child per year most years. Our retirement savings is about $2.7 mil, but we are 55/60, and ageism has taken root.

Also, about cash flowing, there is a thread on the Jobs forum about someone being laid off just before the holidays. We have lived through layoffs and ageism. If you cash flow an expensive college, what happens if you get laid off?

Don't think your job is safe. It's not, especially as you get older.

You are like a dog with a bone. Carrying on and on will not curry sympathy. It really just shoves the income disparity in our faces. I have some of your issues on half your salary. (My part of our income is self employed, and most of my clients hired in house versions of what I do leaving me to reinvent myself once again).

Just count your blessings, make the best choices for you kids and your situation and quit complaining about not affording thinks when you make 300k. It's really annoying to those of us in our 50s who don't have your income level.

DP here. If you are happy with your decisions, why are you attacking other people? The OP asked a question. The reality is that the cost of colleges has skyrocketed beyond inflation and the same time the acceptance rate to top colleges has gone to single digits. There are zero guarantees that top grades will get them into the T20 colleges and even if they get in you need to be prepared to be full pay for all your kids. I’m not saying T20 is the end all be all, it’s more the fact that you could sacrifice less and your kids could enjoy life and school more for you still to end up at the same place - your state flagship …and they do perfectly fine there. And after all this angst, we (both parents and your kids coming out of college) have to worry about the next generation of jobs with the rise of AI.

It’s like the Matrix, you take the blue pill and you believe that, whatever your personal financial situation/setbacks, you will surely qualify for aid or your super bright talented kid will get great merit or into the school of their choice OR you go into this with your eyes wide open. I found it very helpful when friends, neighbors of older kids (really good students) let things drop about not getting any aid and getting shut out of the top schools and seeing that things also turned out well (so far) where they did end up. Having honest conversations that were fact and not judgment based allowed me the full picture to make more informed decisions and be strategic in the college lists for my kids earlier in the process.

If you think "count your blessings " is attacking, you've got a real chip on uour shoulder. That person (I don't think they are OP) goes on and on and on about how tough they have it st 300k/year. It rings hollow to those of us who make half that.

I'm that PP. If you had read my posts, you would see that I stated "I have a good life". Point of my post was to posters who stated that they could easily pay for $80k/per year for two kids with a HHI of $300K, and no aid.

If your HHI is $150K, you would get financial aid. It's the donut whole families like OP who get nothing. And not everyone whose HHI is $300K can afford such an expensive college because it depends on that family's circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

No necessarily true! 300k sounds a lot. But after tax, medical and retirement deduction, it is lucky if could take home half of it. With other kids to support, who can afford to use 50% of take home money paying for one kid’s college expenses?

+1

We are paying for two college tuitions right now, at OOS schools with merit aid. There is NO WAY we could pay for an expensive, private college without feeling the effects of it. We don’t take lavish vacations nor live beyond our means — a good chunk of our money goes into retirement accounts and ensuring we have ample savings in the event of a shutdown.

PPs premise assumes they've saved nothing. That is the issue here. At 300K, and saving over 10+ years, you should be able to afford it. No one is expecting cashflow to cover.

As a fed family, we did not hit $300k until our kids were nearly out of high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

No necessarily true! 300k sounds a lot. But after tax, medical and retirement deduction, it is lucky if could take home half of it. With other kids to support, who can afford to use 50% of take home money paying for one kid’s college expenses?

+1

We are paying for two college tuitions right now, at OOS schools with merit aid. There is NO WAY we could pay for an expensive, private college without feeling the effects of it. We don’t take lavish vacations nor live beyond our means — a good chunk of our money goes into retirement accounts and ensuring we have ample savings in the event of a shutdown.

PPs premise assumes they've saved nothing. That is the issue here. At 300K, and saving over 10+ years, you should be able to afford it. No one is expecting cashflow to cover.

And they were probably making $175-250 for a long time.

I’m the PP who posted about how our income increased at a high rate over 7 years before kids and how we banked the vast majority of it. Kids increase expenditures but saving for the future can precede their arrival. That cushion allowed us to help out one of our families, etc. and not necessarily imperil saving for college.

Our income has remained flat for 5 years, and prior to that, our HHI was $140k to $160k. But, FAFSA doesn't look at your income from even 2 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you have 3+ kids attending college at the same time, you might qualify for a tiny amount.

NOT ANYMORE!!! New FAFSA rules don't include having multiple kids in college at the same time. That is what we planned for with twins and now we are totally screwed!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

$300k puts you in a 30% combined tax bracket if you live in MD, about 27% in VA. Don't forget, SALT deductions are limited, so you will probably take the standard deduction.

If you are 50+, you want to max out your 401k contribution and add the catch up extra $7500, which brings it to like $30K per person.

So, your income will look something like this:

1. 60K 401k (assuming both are 50+ and contributing the max, which you should at that income level)
2. taxes around $60K to $65K

That leaves you with 300K - 120k = $180k.

Let's say your annual expenses is something like $100K/yr in just expenses. You would have $80k left. But that just pays for room and board. Travel and other costs will rack up more. That's just one kid. Many of us have more than one kid who will be in college at the same time.

You will also not have any wiggle room for large emergency expenses or even vacation. If your car breaks down (like ours just did), you'd have to get a loan at 6% to 7%.

My DC is at the state flagship with some merit aid. We told this DC, who had super high stats, to not do ED at the expensive colleges. We cannot afford it, yes, even with $300K per year. It would leave us with so little wiggle room, that we'd be eating hand to mouth for the next 7 years -- we have two kids, and DH is 60. We have enough in the 529s for in state. That would barely cover 2 years of private.

I think you are the one who needs a dose of reality.

NP: I personally wouldn't pay $80K for college--don't think it is worth it for 99% of colleges; however, your analysis leaves out any savings (for emergencies, etc.) and a 529 or investments/assets that could be used to pay for college. Your assumption is that the family is cashflowing the entire cost per year. I also wouldn't max out 401k for 4-5 years while 1-2 kids are in college if your 401k is already at a healthy amount.

Yes, I made the assumption that the PP stated they could pay for private college with $300HHI because they didn't state that.

If our 529 had $250K+, sure, but I don't think the PP has that much in their 529.

Like I said, we have enough for in state in our 529, but at $80/year with two kids, we'd still have to cash flow at least $300K.

And I disagree about not maxing out retirement. What is a "healthy" amount in retirement ? We aren't feds, so we have to pay for our own health insurance. I'm not planning to work until I'm 65.

You can always borrow to pay for college; can't do that for retirement.

Again, you are making life choices.. if you will not work until 65, which is what you project you'll need to, you need to change your lifestyle or accept your kids cannot go to any school you/they want.

well, duh, of course it's about life choices, but the PP thought $300K was plenty to pay for $80k/year private. My point is that it's really not unless you ONLY save for college, have one child, and don't want to go on vacations (and I'm not even talking about luxury vacations), or buy a new car, or have reasonable emergency savings, or live in a good school cluster (public not private).

We don't drive expensive cars, I drive a subaru. My spouse is from the UK, and we go see their family every couple of years. My family lives out west, so we go see them the other years. Family of four. Do you know how expensive that gets. I suppose I could prioritize college savings, and not see our elderly parents biannually.

yes, it's all about life choices. My kids have learned that. My DC now in college has learned that going to an expensive school outside of T10 is not a good deal. That spending $300K+ for four years just so you like the feel of the campus for 4 years is shortsighted. If you take out loans for those expensive four years, you'll be paying off that loan for the next 20 years.

But, those are our opinions and our choices.

I mean, this is demonstrably untrue? We earn more than $100K less a year than you, have two kids, have tons of emergency savings, have enough in retirement savings to retire early if we want to, and are saving enough for college to cover well over half of the price of the most expensive colleges (should be able to cashflow the rest pretty easily, especially since we'll be done paying off our 15-year mortgage by then.) Not sure why you can't do this at your much higher income. Are you one of those "only the most prestigious public schools are good enough for my kids, so clearly we must spend 7 figures on a house" kind of people? Are you way over-saving for retirement at the expense of college?

Nope. We don't live in the best school cluster. It's a good school cluster, but not the best in the district. We did not pay $1mil for the house. I would never do that. One of the reasons I didn't want to live in the "best" school cluster was because I didn't want my kids around that much wealth.[twitter]

I bet you are a fed with good health insurance. Have you tried private insurance for the past 20 years with large medical bills?

Our HHI has not always been $300k, btw, but FAFSA doesn't look at what your income was 3 years ago.

And what do you mean by "oversaving for retirement at the expense of college"? We've been putting in more than $2500 per child per year most years. Our retirement savings is about $2.7 mil, but we are 55/60, and ageism has taken root.

Also, about cash flowing, there is a thread on the Jobs forum about someone being laid off just before the holidays. We have lived through layoffs and ageism. If you cash flow an expensive college, what happens if you get laid off?

Don't think your job is safe. It's not, especially as you get older.

You are like a dog with a bone. Carrying on and on will not curry sympathy. It really just shoves the income disparity in our faces. I have some of your issues on half your salary. (My part of our income is self employed, and most of my clients hired in house versions of what I do leaving me to reinvent myself once again).

Just count your blessings, make the best choices for you kids and your situation and quit complaining about not affording thinks when you make 300k. It's really annoying to those of us in our 50s who don't have your income level.

DP here. If you are happy with your decisions, why are you attacking other people? The OP asked a question. The reality is that the cost of colleges has skyrocketed beyond inflation and the same time the acceptance rate to top colleges has gone to single digits. There are zero guarantees that top grades will get them into the T20 colleges and even if they get in you need to be prepared to be full pay for all your kids. I’m not saying T20 is the end all be all, it’s more the fact that you could sacrifice less and your kids could enjoy life and school more for you still to end up at the same place - your state flagship …and they do perfectly fine there. And after all this angst, we (both parents and your kids coming out of college) have to worry about the next generation of jobs with the rise of AI.

It’s like the Matrix, you take the blue pill and you believe that, whatever your personal financial situation/setbacks, you will surely qualify for aid or your super bright talented kid will get great merit or into the school of their choice OR you go into this with your eyes wide open. I found it very helpful when friends, neighbors of older kids (really good students) let things drop about not getting any aid and getting shut out of the top schools and seeing that things also turned out well (so far) where they did end up. Having honest conversations that were fact and not judgment based allowed me the full picture to make more informed decisions and be strategic in the college lists for my kids earlier in the process.

They choose multiple kids. They choose their lifestyle. They choose not to save. They insist their kids need to go to private college. Lifestyle choices. And, it's offensive when people do save, aren't doing things like vacations to save, live in small shacks to save, etc. and they are the ones who feel entitled to financial aid because they didn't save on twice or more the income. Kids don't get shut out of colleges. They either don't qualify or there was a better candidate the school was more interested in. There are plenty of spots for college, just not the ones you want your child at.

"They" kid is going to in state flagship with merit. No one ever stated that they are entitled financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

No necessarily true! 300k sounds a lot. But after tax, medical and retirement deduction, it is lucky if could take home half of it. With other kids to support, who can afford to use 50% of take home money paying for one kid’s college expenses?

+1

We are paying for two college tuitions right now, at OOS schools with merit aid. There is NO WAY we could pay for an expensive, private college without feeling the effects of it. We don’t take lavish vacations nor live beyond our means — a good chunk of our money goes into retirement accounts and ensuring we have ample savings in the event of a shutdown.

PPs premise assumes they've saved nothing. That is the issue here. At 300K, and saving over 10+ years, you should be able to afford it. No one is expecting cashflow to cover.

As a fed family, we did not hit $300k until our kids were nearly out of high school.

Right, and FAFSA doesn't care about what your income was two years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have 3+ kids attending college at the same time, you might qualify for a tiny amount.

NOT ANYMORE!!! New FAFSA rules don't include having multiple kids in college at the same time. That is what we planned for with twins and now we are totally screwed!

But colleges that use CSS will continue to provide sibling discounts especially both kids attend schools with CSS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

No necessarily true! 300k sounds a lot. But after tax, medical and retirement deduction, it is lucky if could take home half of it. With other kids to support, who can afford to use 50% of take home money paying for one kid’s college expenses?

+1

We are paying for two college tuitions right now, at OOS schools with merit aid. There is NO WAY we could pay for an expensive, private college without feeling the effects of it. We don’t take lavish vacations nor live beyond our means — a good chunk of our money goes into retirement accounts and ensuring we have ample savings in the event of a shutdown.

PPs premise assumes they've saved nothing. That is the issue here. At 300K, and saving over 10+ years, you should be able to afford it. No one is expecting cashflow to cover.

And they were probably making $175-250 for a long time.

I’m the PP who posted about how our income increased at a high rate over 7 years before kids and how we banked the vast majority of it. Kids increase expenditures but saving for the future can precede their arrival. That cushion allowed us to help out one of our families, etc. and not necessarily imperil saving for college.

You make PLENTY of money to pay for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have 3+ kids attending college at the same time, you might qualify for a tiny amount.

NOT ANYMORE!!! New FAFSA rules don't include having multiple kids in college at the same time. That is what we planned for with twins and now we are totally screwed!

Not totally screwed at all. The CSS Formula for determine financial aid -- which is used by hundreds of colleges -- takes account of multiple kids in college. See list of CSS schools here. https://profile.collegeboard.org/profile/ppi/participatingInstitutions.aspx

Also, try the individual colleges Net Price Calculators (rather than relying on the FAFSA EFC) to get a relatively accurate idea of likely financial aid at specific schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have 3+ kids attending college at the same time, you might qualify for a tiny amount.

NOT ANYMORE!!! New FAFSA rules don't include having multiple kids in college at the same time. That is what we planned for with twins and now we are totally screwed!

They shouldn't reward families who have more kids with more help. You aren't screwed. You should have saved. You knew you'd have multiple kids in college at the same time.

[Anonymous]

I don’t get all the outrage. You don’t have a right to send your kid to a private university. It is a luxury prestige item like driving a $80k Mercedes. If you can’t afford it, that is what public universities are for. DCUM parents are so insufferable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have 3+ kids attending college at the same time, you might qualify for a tiny amount.

NOT ANYMORE!!! New FAFSA rules don't include having multiple kids in college at the same time. That is what we planned for with twins and now we are totally screwed!

They shouldn't reward families who have more kids with more help. You aren't screwed. You should have saved. You knew you'd have multiple kids in college at the same time.

so colleges are now a reward for families who plan better?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

No necessarily true! 300k sounds a lot. But after tax, medical and retirement deduction, it is lucky if could take home half of it. With other kids to support, who can afford to use 50% of take home money paying for one kid’s college expenses?

+1

We are paying for two college tuitions right now, at OOS schools with merit aid. There is NO WAY we could pay for an expensive, private college without feeling the effects of it. We don’t take lavish vacations nor live beyond our means — a good chunk of our money goes into retirement accounts and ensuring we have ample savings in the event of a shutdown.

PPs premise assumes they've saved nothing. That is the issue here. At 300K, and saving over 10+ years, you should be able to afford it. No one is expecting cashflow to cover.

And they were probably making $175-250 for a long time.

I’m the PP who posted about how our income increased at a high rate over 7 years before kids and how we banked the vast majority of it. Kids increase expenditures but saving for the future can precede their arrival. That cushion allowed us to help out one of our families, etc. and not necessarily imperil saving for college.

You make PLENTY of money to pay for college.

Right. I wasn't saying that we didn't. Only that we spent ~7 years, including before we were married, hewing to our original HHI, not the one that grew over time. We already had a fair amount in the bank by the time we had kids seven years into our relationship/three years into marriage, one set of parents experiencing financial difficulties. We also have had one year out of the work force of the primary earner.

But if our income had stalled in the 180K range, we still would have banked a fair amount over those seven years - ~400K - as our expenses/lifestyle remained ~110-120K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have 3+ kids attending college at the same time, you might qualify for a tiny amount.

NOT ANYMORE!!! New FAFSA rules don't include having multiple kids in college at the same time. That is what we planned for with twins and now we are totally screwed!

They shouldn't reward families who have more kids with more help. You aren't screwed. You should have saved. You knew you'd have multiple kids in college at the same time.

so colleges are now a reward for families who plan better?

I hope they do, especially those of us with less kids and put an effort into saving.