FAFSA - is middle-class waste time applying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

$300k puts you in a 30% combined tax bracket if you live in MD, about 27% in VA. Don't forget, SALT deductions are limited, so you will probably take the standard deduction.

If you are 50+, you want to max out your 401k contribution and add the catch up extra $7500, which brings it to like $30K per person.

So, your income will look something like this:

1. 60K 401k (assuming both are 50+ and contributing the max, which you should at that income level)
2. taxes around $60K to $65K

That leaves you with 300K - 120k = $180k.

Let's say your annual expenses is something like $100K/yr in just expenses. You would have $80k left. But that just pays for room and board. Travel and other costs will rack up more. That's just one kid. Many of us have more than one kid who will be in college at the same time.

You will also not have any wiggle room for large emergency expenses or even vacation. If your car breaks down (like ours just did), you'd have to get a loan at 6% to 7%.

My DC is at the state flagship with some merit aid. We told this DC, who had super high stats, to not do ED at the expensive colleges. We cannot afford it, yes, even with $300K per year. It would leave us with so little wiggle room, that we'd be eating hand to mouth for the next 7 years -- we have two kids, and DH is 60. We have enough in the 529s for in state. That would barely cover 2 years of private.

I think you are the one who needs a dose of reality.

NP: I personally wouldn't pay $80K for college--don't think it is worth it for 99% of colleges; however, your analysis leaves out any savings (for emergencies, etc.) and a 529 or investments/assets that could be used to pay for college. Your assumption is that the family is cashflowing the entire cost per year. I also wouldn't max out 401k for 4-5 years while 1-2 kids are in college if your 401k is already at a healthy amount.

Yes, I made the assumption that the PP stated they could pay for private college with $300HHI because they didn't state that.

If our 529 had $250K+, sure, but I don't think the PP has that much in their 529.

Like I said, we have enough for in state in our 529, but at $80/year with two kids, we'd still have to cash flow at least $300K.

And I disagree about not maxing out retirement. What is a "healthy" amount in retirement ? We aren't feds, so we have to pay for our own health insurance. I'm not planning to work until I'm 65.

You can always borrow to pay for college; can't do that for retirement.

Again, you are making life choices.. if you will not work until 65, which is what you project you'll need to, you need to change your lifestyle or accept your kids cannot go to any school you/they want.

well, duh, of course it's about life choices, but the PP thought $300K was plenty to pay for $80k/year private. My point is that it's really not unless you ONLY save for college, have one child, and don't want to go on vacations (and I'm not even talking about luxury vacations), or buy a new car, or have reasonable emergency savings, or live in a good school cluster (public not private).

We don't drive expensive cars, I drive a subaru. My spouse is from the UK, and we go see their family every couple of years. My family lives out west, so we go see them the other years. Family of four. Do you know how expensive that gets. I suppose I could prioritize college savings, and not see our elderly parents biannually.

yes, it's all about life choices. My kids have learned that. My DC now in college has learned that going to an expensive school outside of T10 is not a good deal. That spending $300K+ for four years just so you like the feel of the campus for 4 years is shortsighted. If you take out loans for those expensive four years, you'll be paying off that loan for the next 20 years.

But, those are our opinions and our choices.

I mean, this is demonstrably untrue? We earn more than $100K less a year than you, have two kids, have tons of emergency savings, have enough in retirement savings to retire early if we want to, and are saving enough for college to cover well over half of the price of the most expensive colleges (should be able to cashflow the rest pretty easily, especially since we'll be done paying off our 15-year mortgage by then.) Not sure why you can't do this at your much higher income. Are you one of those "only the most prestigious public schools are good enough for my kids, so clearly we must spend 7 figures on a house" kind of people? Are you way over-saving for retirement at the expense of college?

Nope. We don't live in the best school cluster. It's a good school cluster, but not the best in the district. We did not pay $1mil for the house. I would never do that. One of the reasons I didn't want to live in the "best" school cluster was because I didn't want my kids around that much wealth.[twitter]

I bet you are a fed with good health insurance. Have you tried private insurance for the past 20 years with large medical bills?

Our HHI has not always been $300k, btw, but FAFSA doesn't look at what your income was 3 years ago.

And what do you mean by "oversaving for retirement at the expense of college"? We've been putting in more than $2500 per child per year most years. Our retirement savings is about $2.7 mil, but we are 55/60, and ageism has taken root.

Also, about cash flowing, there is a thread on the Jobs forum about someone being laid off just before the holidays. We have lived through layoffs and ageism. If you cash flow an expensive college, what happens if you get laid off?

Don't think your job is safe. It's not, especially as you get older.

You are like a dog with a bone. Carrying on and on will not curry sympathy. It really just shoves the income disparity in our faces. I have some of your issues on half your salary. (My part of our income is self employed, and most of my clients hired in house versions of what I do leaving me to reinvent myself once again).

Just count your blessings, make the best choices for you kids and your situation and quit complaining about not affording thinks when you make 300k. It's really annoying to those of us in our 50s who don't have your income level.

[Anonymous]

Regardless of income, can any college that costs $85k per year really be justified? That figure is so outlandish, regardless of whether my family can afford it full pay without negatively impacting retirement. Even if someone is high income (however you define it) that doesn't mean they believe $85k for college is worth the money, when a great state school at full price can be had for 1/3 the cost. Or decent privates with merit can be attended for half that cost. Same reason someone buys a used Toyota instead of a new Lexus.

[Anonymous]

If you have 3+ kids attending college at the same time, you might qualify for a tiny amount.

[Anonymous]

To the OP- private college is mostly around 85-90K/year, not 70. Just want to level set.

To sum up. The beauty of living in this country is the choices that we have. With those choices come responsibilities.

The schools and government will only come in to lower the price of attendance when it meets their public policy goals. So, strong FA for schools that can afford it through their big endowments given to the kids that they want to educate raised by families that cannot “afford it” based on the school’s measure. Governments (state and federal) help provide lower cost options and less expensive aid or grants for families that qualify.

The rest is on us. Our children are not entitled to a luxury education for free, just like they are not entitled to other luxuries we may have chosen to give them.

HHI around 400K, in our mid-late 50s, we are feds so wasn’t always this high but have been over $300K/year for a while. Have saved around 40K/year per child, we have two. One attending a school that costs 85K year with a $20K/year merit scholarship and we are cash-flowing the difference.

If we could not afford to cashflow, DC had an option that was $35K/year. Had the best option cost us more we would have found a way to work the finances.

We are lucky to have these choices and we have also chosen to enjoy life. We clearly could have saved the entire cost of attendance ahead of time if that was our family’s priority.


This is in no way a complaint and I am not saying that this is easy for all. It is, however, better than many alternatives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

No necessarily true! 300k sounds a lot. But after tax, medical and retirement deduction, it is lucky if could take home half of it. With other kids to support, who can afford to use 50% of take home money paying for one kid’s college expenses?

+1

We are paying for two college tuitions right now, at OOS schools with merit aid. There is NO WAY we could pay for an expensive, private college without feeling the effects of it. We don’t take lavish vacations nor live beyond our means — a good chunk of our money goes into retirement accounts and ensuring we have ample savings in the event of a shutdown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

$300k puts you in a 30% combined tax bracket if you live in MD, about 27% in VA. Don't forget, SALT deductions are limited, so you will probably take the standard deduction.

If you are 50+, you want to max out your 401k contribution and add the catch up extra $7500, which brings it to like $30K per person.

So, your income will look something like this:

1. 60K 401k (assuming both are 50+ and contributing the max, which you should at that income level)
2. taxes around $60K to $65K

That leaves you with 300K - 120k = $180k.

Let's say your annual expenses is something like $100K/yr in just expenses. You would have $80k left. But that just pays for room and board. Travel and other costs will rack up more. That's just one kid. Many of us have more than one kid who will be in college at the same time.

You will also not have any wiggle room for large emergency expenses or even vacation. If your car breaks down (like ours just did), you'd have to get a loan at 6% to 7%.

My DC is at the state flagship with some merit aid. We told this DC, who had super high stats, to not do ED at the expensive colleges. We cannot afford it, yes, even with $300K per year. It would leave us with so little wiggle room, that we'd be eating hand to mouth for the next 7 years -- we have two kids, and DH is 60. We have enough in the 529s for in state. That would barely cover 2 years of private.

I think you are the one who needs a dose of reality.

NP: I personally wouldn't pay $80K for college--don't think it is worth it for 99% of colleges; however, your analysis leaves out any savings (for emergencies, etc.) and a 529 or investments/assets that could be used to pay for college. Your assumption is that the family is cashflowing the entire cost per year. I also wouldn't max out 401k for 4-5 years while 1-2 kids are in college if your 401k is already at a healthy amount.

Yes, I made the assumption that the PP stated they could pay for private college with $300HHI because they didn't state that.

If our 529 had $250K+, sure, but I don't think the PP has that much in their 529.

Like I said, we have enough for in state in our 529, but at $80/year with two kids, we'd still have to cash flow at least $300K.

And I disagree about not maxing out retirement. What is a "healthy" amount in retirement ? We aren't feds, so we have to pay for our own health insurance. I'm not planning to work until I'm 65.

You can always borrow to pay for college; can't do that for retirement.

Again, you are making life choices.. if you will not work until 65, which is what you project you'll need to, you need to change your lifestyle or accept your kids cannot go to any school you/they want.

well, duh, of course it's about life choices, but the PP thought $300K was plenty to pay for $80k/year private. My point is that it's really not unless you ONLY save for college, have one child, and don't want to go on vacations (and I'm not even talking about luxury vacations), or buy a new car, or have reasonable emergency savings, or live in a good school cluster (public not private).

We don't drive expensive cars, I drive a subaru. My spouse is from the UK, and we go see their family every couple of years. My family lives out west, so we go see them the other years. Family of four. Do you know how expensive that gets. I suppose I could prioritize college savings, and not see our elderly parents biannually.

yes, it's all about life choices. My kids have learned that. My DC now in college has learned that going to an expensive school outside of T10 is not a good deal. That spending $300K+ for four years just so you like the feel of the campus for 4 years is shortsighted. If you take out loans for those expensive four years, you'll be paying off that loan for the next 20 years.

But, those are our opinions and our choices.

I mean, this is demonstrably untrue? We earn more than $100K less a year than you, have two kids, have tons of emergency savings, have enough in retirement savings to retire early if we want to, and are saving enough for college to cover well over half of the price of the most expensive colleges (should be able to cashflow the rest pretty easily, especially since we'll be done paying off our 15-year mortgage by then.) Not sure why you can't do this at your much higher income. Are you one of those "only the most prestigious public schools are good enough for my kids, so clearly we must spend 7 figures on a house" kind of people? Are you way over-saving for retirement at the expense of college?

Nope. We don't live in the best school cluster. It's a good school cluster, but not the best in the district. We did not pay $1mil for the house. I would never do that. One of the reasons I didn't want to live in the "best" school cluster was because I didn't want my kids around that much wealth.[twitter]

I bet you are a fed with good health insurance. Have you tried private insurance for the past 20 years with large medical bills?

Our HHI has not always been $300k, btw, but FAFSA doesn't look at what your income was 3 years ago.

And what do you mean by "oversaving for retirement at the expense of college"? We've been putting in more than $2500 per child per year most years. Our retirement savings is about $2.7 mil, but we are 55/60, and ageism has taken root.

Also, about cash flowing, there is a thread on the Jobs forum about someone being laid off just before the holidays. We have lived through layoffs and ageism. If you cash flow an expensive college, what happens if you get laid off?

Don't think your job is safe. It's not, especially as you get older.

You are like a dog with a bone. Carrying on and on will not curry sympathy. It really just shoves the income disparity in our faces. I have some of your issues on half your salary. (My part of our income is self employed, and most of my clients hired in house versions of what I do leaving me to reinvent myself once again).

Just count your blessings, make the best choices for you kids and your situation and quit complaining about not affording thinks when you make 300k. It's really annoying to those of us in our 50s who don't have your income level.

DP here. If you are happy with your decisions, why are you attacking other people? The OP asked a question. The reality is that the cost of colleges has skyrocketed beyond inflation and the same time the acceptance rate to top colleges has gone to single digits. There are zero guarantees that top grades will get them into the T20 colleges and even if they get in you need to be prepared to be full pay for all your kids. I’m not saying T20 is the end all be all, it’s more the fact that you could sacrifice less and your kids could enjoy life and school more for you still to end up at the same place - your state flagship …and they do perfectly fine there. And after all this angst, we (both parents and your kids coming out of college) have to worry about the next generation of jobs with the rise of AI.

It’s like the Matrix, you take the blue pill and you believe that, whatever your personal financial situation/setbacks, you will surely qualify for aid or your super bright talented kid will get great merit or into the school of their choice OR you go into this with your eyes wide open. I found it very helpful when friends, neighbors of older kids (really good students) let things drop about not getting any aid and getting shut out of the top schools and seeing that things also turned out well (so far) where they did end up. Having honest conversations that were fact and not judgment based allowed me the full picture to make more informed decisions and be strategic in the college lists for my kids earlier in the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

$300k puts you in a 30% combined tax bracket if you live in MD, about 27% in VA. Don't forget, SALT deductions are limited, so you will probably take the standard deduction.

If you are 50+, you want to max out your 401k contribution and add the catch up extra $7500, which brings it to like $30K per person.

So, your income will look something like this:

1. 60K 401k (assuming both are 50+ and contributing the max, which you should at that income level)
2. taxes around $60K to $65K

That leaves you with 300K - 120k = $180k.

Let's say your annual expenses is something like $100K/yr in just expenses. You would have $80k left. But that just pays for room and board. Travel and other costs will rack up more. That's just one kid. Many of us have more than one kid who will be in college at the same time.

You will also not have any wiggle room for large emergency expenses or even vacation. If your car breaks down (like ours just did), you'd have to get a loan at 6% to 7%.

My DC is at the state flagship with some merit aid. We told this DC, who had super high stats, to not do ED at the expensive colleges. We cannot afford it, yes, even with $300K per year. It would leave us with so little wiggle room, that we'd be eating hand to mouth for the next 7 years -- we have two kids, and DH is 60. We have enough in the 529s for in state. That would barely cover 2 years of private.

I think you are the one who needs a dose of reality.

NP: I personally wouldn't pay $80K for college--don't think it is worth it for 99% of colleges; however, your analysis leaves out any savings (for emergencies, etc.) and a 529 or investments/assets that could be used to pay for college. Your assumption is that the family is cashflowing the entire cost per year. I also wouldn't max out 401k for 4-5 years while 1-2 kids are in college if your 401k is already at a healthy amount.

Yes, I made the assumption that the PP stated they could pay for private college with $300HHI because they didn't state that.

If our 529 had $250K+, sure, but I don't think the PP has that much in their 529.

Like I said, we have enough for in state in our 529, but at $80/year with two kids, we'd still have to cash flow at least $300K.

And I disagree about not maxing out retirement. What is a "healthy" amount in retirement ? We aren't feds, so we have to pay for our own health insurance. I'm not planning to work until I'm 65.

You can always borrow to pay for college; can't do that for retirement.

Again, you are making life choices.. if you will not work until 65, which is what you project you'll need to, you need to change your lifestyle or accept your kids cannot go to any school you/they want.

well, duh, of course it's about life choices, but the PP thought $300K was plenty to pay for $80k/year private. My point is that it's really not unless you ONLY save for college, have one child, and don't want to go on vacations (and I'm not even talking about luxury vacations), or buy a new car, or have reasonable emergency savings, or live in a good school cluster (public not private).

We don't drive expensive cars, I drive a subaru. My spouse is from the UK, and we go see their family every couple of years. My family lives out west, so we go see them the other years. Family of four. Do you know how expensive that gets. I suppose I could prioritize college savings, and not see our elderly parents biannually.

yes, it's all about life choices. My kids have learned that. My DC now in college has learned that going to an expensive school outside of T10 is not a good deal. That spending $300K+ for four years just so you like the feel of the campus for 4 years is shortsighted. If you take out loans for those expensive four years, you'll be paying off that loan for the next 20 years.

But, those are our opinions and our choices.

I mean, this is demonstrably untrue? We earn more than $100K less a year than you, have two kids, have tons of emergency savings, have enough in retirement savings to retire early if we want to, and are saving enough for college to cover well over half of the price of the most expensive colleges (should be able to cashflow the rest pretty easily, especially since we'll be done paying off our 15-year mortgage by then.) Not sure why you can't do this at your much higher income. Are you one of those "only the most prestigious public schools are good enough for my kids, so clearly we must spend 7 figures on a house" kind of people? Are you way over-saving for retirement at the expense of college?

Nope. We don't live in the best school cluster. It's a good school cluster, but not the best in the district. We did not pay $1mil for the house. I would never do that. One of the reasons I didn't want to live in the "best" school cluster was because I didn't want my kids around that much wealth.[twitter]

I bet you are a fed with good health insurance. Have you tried private insurance for the past 20 years with large medical bills?

Our HHI has not always been $300k, btw, but FAFSA doesn't look at what your income was 3 years ago.

And what do you mean by "oversaving for retirement at the expense of college"? We've been putting in more than $2500 per child per year most years. Our retirement savings is about $2.7 mil, but we are 55/60, and ageism has taken root.

Also, about cash flowing, there is a thread on the Jobs forum about someone being laid off just before the holidays. We have lived through layoffs and ageism. If you cash flow an expensive college, what happens if you get laid off?

Don't think your job is safe. It's not, especially as you get older.

You are like a dog with a bone. Carrying on and on will not curry sympathy. It really just shoves the income disparity in our faces. I have some of your issues on half your salary. (My part of our income is self employed, and most of my clients hired in house versions of what I do leaving me to reinvent myself once again).

Just count your blessings, make the best choices for you kids and your situation and quit complaining about not affording thinks when you make 300k. It's really annoying to those of us in our 50s who don't have your income level.

DP here. If you are happy with your decisions, why are you attacking other people? The OP asked a question. The reality is that the cost of colleges has skyrocketed beyond inflation and the same time the acceptance rate to top colleges has gone to single digits. There are zero guarantees that top grades will get them into the T20 colleges and even if they get in you need to be prepared to be full pay for all your kids. I’m not saying T20 is the end all be all, it’s more the fact that you could sacrifice less and your kids could enjoy life and school more for you still to end up at the same place - your state flagship …and they do perfectly fine there. And after all this angst, we (both parents and your kids coming out of college) have to worry about the next generation of jobs with the rise of AI.

It’s like the Matrix, you take the blue pill and you believe that, whatever your personal financial situation/setbacks, you will surely qualify for aid or your super bright talented kid will get great merit or into the school of their choice OR you go into this with your eyes wide open. I found it very helpful when friends, neighbors of older kids (really good students) let things drop about not getting any aid and getting shut out of the top schools and seeing that things also turned out well (so far) where they did end up. Having honest conversations that were fact and not judgment based allowed me the full picture to make more informed decisions and be strategic in the college lists for my kids earlier in the process.

If you think "count your blessings " is attacking, you've got a real chip on uour shoulder. That person (I don't think they are OP) goes on and on and on about how tough they have it st 300k/year. It rings hollow to those of us who make half that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

No necessarily true! 300k sounds a lot. But after tax, medical and retirement deduction, it is lucky if could take home half of it. With other kids to support, who can afford to use 50% of take home money paying for one kid’s college expenses?

+1

We are paying for two college tuitions right now, at OOS schools with merit aid. There is NO WAY we could pay for an expensive, private college without feeling the effects of it. We don’t take lavish vacations nor live beyond our means — a good chunk of our money goes into retirement accounts and ensuring we have ample savings in the event of a shutdown.

You are supposed to feel the effect of having two kids in a private college. I don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

No necessarily true! 300k sounds a lot. But after tax, medical and retirement deduction, it is lucky if could take home half of it. With other kids to support, who can afford to use 50% of take home money paying for one kid’s college expenses?

+1

We are paying for two college tuitions right now, at OOS schools with merit aid. There is NO WAY we could pay for an expensive, private college without feeling the effects of it. We don’t take lavish vacations nor live beyond our means — a good chunk of our money goes into retirement accounts and ensuring we have ample savings in the event of a shutdown.

PPs premise assumes they've saved nothing. That is the issue here. At 300K, and saving over 10+ years, you should be able to afford it. No one is expecting cashflow to cover.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

$300k puts you in a 30% combined tax bracket if you live in MD, about 27% in VA. Don't forget, SALT deductions are limited, so you will probably take the standard deduction.

If you are 50+, you want to max out your 401k contribution and add the catch up extra $7500, which brings it to like $30K per person.

So, your income will look something like this:

1. 60K 401k (assuming both are 50+ and contributing the max, which you should at that income level)
2. taxes around $60K to $65K

That leaves you with 300K - 120k = $180k.

Let's say your annual expenses is something like $100K/yr in just expenses. You would have $80k left. But that just pays for room and board. Travel and other costs will rack up more. That's just one kid. Many of us have more than one kid who will be in college at the same time.

You will also not have any wiggle room for large emergency expenses or even vacation. If your car breaks down (like ours just did), you'd have to get a loan at 6% to 7%.

My DC is at the state flagship with some merit aid. We told this DC, who had super high stats, to not do ED at the expensive colleges. We cannot afford it, yes, even with $300K per year. It would leave us with so little wiggle room, that we'd be eating hand to mouth for the next 7 years -- we have two kids, and DH is 60. We have enough in the 529s for in state. That would barely cover 2 years of private.

I think you are the one who needs a dose of reality.

NP: I personally wouldn't pay $80K for college--don't think it is worth it for 99% of colleges; however, your analysis leaves out any savings (for emergencies, etc.) and a 529 or investments/assets that could be used to pay for college. Your assumption is that the family is cashflowing the entire cost per year. I also wouldn't max out 401k for 4-5 years while 1-2 kids are in college if your 401k is already at a healthy amount.

Yes, I made the assumption that the PP stated they could pay for private college with $300HHI because they didn't state that.

If our 529 had $250K+, sure, but I don't think the PP has that much in their 529.

Like I said, we have enough for in state in our 529, but at $80/year with two kids, we'd still have to cash flow at least $300K.

And I disagree about not maxing out retirement. What is a "healthy" amount in retirement ? We aren't feds, so we have to pay for our own health insurance. I'm not planning to work until I'm 65.

You can always borrow to pay for college; can't do that for retirement.

Again, you are making life choices.. if you will not work until 65, which is what you project you'll need to, you need to change your lifestyle or accept your kids cannot go to any school you/they want.

well, duh, of course it's about life choices, but the PP thought $300K was plenty to pay for $80k/year private. My point is that it's really not unless you ONLY save for college, have one child, and don't want to go on vacations (and I'm not even talking about luxury vacations), or buy a new car, or have reasonable emergency savings, or live in a good school cluster (public not private).

We don't drive expensive cars, I drive a subaru. My spouse is from the UK, and we go see their family every couple of years. My family lives out west, so we go see them the other years. Family of four. Do you know how expensive that gets. I suppose I could prioritize college savings, and not see our elderly parents biannually.

yes, it's all about life choices. My kids have learned that. My DC now in college has learned that going to an expensive school outside of T10 is not a good deal. That spending $300K+ for four years just so you like the feel of the campus for 4 years is shortsighted. If you take out loans for those expensive four years, you'll be paying off that loan for the next 20 years.

But, those are our opinions and our choices.

I mean, this is demonstrably untrue? We earn more than $100K less a year than you, have two kids, have tons of emergency savings, have enough in retirement savings to retire early if we want to, and are saving enough for college to cover well over half of the price of the most expensive colleges (should be able to cashflow the rest pretty easily, especially since we'll be done paying off our 15-year mortgage by then.) Not sure why you can't do this at your much higher income. Are you one of those "only the most prestigious public schools are good enough for my kids, so clearly we must spend 7 figures on a house" kind of people? Are you way over-saving for retirement at the expense of college?

Nope. We don't live in the best school cluster. It's a good school cluster, but not the best in the district. We did not pay $1mil for the house. I would never do that. One of the reasons I didn't want to live in the "best" school cluster was because I didn't want my kids around that much wealth.[twitter]

I bet you are a fed with good health insurance. Have you tried private insurance for the past 20 years with large medical bills?

Our HHI has not always been $300k, btw, but FAFSA doesn't look at what your income was 3 years ago.

And what do you mean by "oversaving for retirement at the expense of college"? We've been putting in more than $2500 per child per year most years. Our retirement savings is about $2.7 mil, but we are 55/60, and ageism has taken root.

Also, about cash flowing, there is a thread on the Jobs forum about someone being laid off just before the holidays. We have lived through layoffs and ageism. If you cash flow an expensive college, what happens if you get laid off?

Don't think your job is safe. It's not, especially as you get older.

You are like a dog with a bone. Carrying on and on will not curry sympathy. It really just shoves the income disparity in our faces. I have some of your issues on half your salary. (My part of our income is self employed, and most of my clients hired in house versions of what I do leaving me to reinvent myself once again).

Just count your blessings, make the best choices for you kids and your situation and quit complaining about not affording thinks when you make 300k. It's really annoying to those of us in our 50s who don't have your income level.

DP here. If you are happy with your decisions, why are you attacking other people? The OP asked a question. The reality is that the cost of colleges has skyrocketed beyond inflation and the same time the acceptance rate to top colleges has gone to single digits. There are zero guarantees that top grades will get them into the T20 colleges and even if they get in you need to be prepared to be full pay for all your kids. I’m not saying T20 is the end all be all, it’s more the fact that you could sacrifice less and your kids could enjoy life and school more for you still to end up at the same place - your state flagship …and they do perfectly fine there. And after all this angst, we (both parents and your kids coming out of college) have to worry about the next generation of jobs with the rise of AI.

It’s like the Matrix, you take the blue pill and you believe that, whatever your personal financial situation/setbacks, you will surely qualify for aid or your super bright talented kid will get great merit or into the school of their choice OR you go into this with your eyes wide open. I found it very helpful when friends, neighbors of older kids (really good students) let things drop about not getting any aid and getting shut out of the top schools and seeing that things also turned out well (so far) where they did end up. Having honest conversations that were fact and not judgment based allowed me the full picture to make more informed decisions and be strategic in the college lists for my kids earlier in the process.

They choose multiple kids. They choose their lifestyle. They choose not to save. They insist their kids need to go to private college. Lifestyle choices. And, it's offensive when people do save, aren't doing things like vacations to save, live in small shacks to save, etc. and they are the ones who feel entitled to financial aid because they didn't save on twice or more the income. Kids don't get shut out of colleges. They either don't qualify or there was a better candidate the school was more interested in. There are plenty of spots for college, just not the ones you want your child at.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

$300k puts you in a 30% combined tax bracket if you live in MD, about 27% in VA. Don't forget, SALT deductions are limited, so you will probably take the standard deduction.

If you are 50+, you want to max out your 401k contribution and add the catch up extra $7500, which brings it to like $30K per person.

So, your income will look something like this:

1. 60K 401k (assuming both are 50+ and contributing the max, which you should at that income level)
2. taxes around $60K to $65K

That leaves you with 300K - 120k = $180k.

Let's say your annual expenses is something like $100K/yr in just expenses. You would have $80k left. But that just pays for room and board. Travel and other costs will rack up more. That's just one kid. Many of us have more than one kid who will be in college at the same time.

You will also not have any wiggle room for large emergency expenses or even vacation. If your car breaks down (like ours just did), you'd have to get a loan at 6% to 7%.

My DC is at the state flagship with some merit aid. We told this DC, who had super high stats, to not do ED at the expensive colleges. We cannot afford it, yes, even with $300K per year. It would leave us with so little wiggle room, that we'd be eating hand to mouth for the next 7 years -- we have two kids, and DH is 60. We have enough in the 529s for in state. That would barely cover 2 years of private.

I think you are the one who needs a dose of reality.

NP: I personally wouldn't pay $80K for college--don't think it is worth it for 99% of colleges; however, your analysis leaves out any savings (for emergencies, etc.) and a 529 or investments/assets that could be used to pay for college. Your assumption is that the family is cashflowing the entire cost per year. I also wouldn't max out 401k for 4-5 years while 1-2 kids are in college if your 401k is already at a healthy amount.

Yes, I made the assumption that the PP stated they could pay for private college with $300HHI because they didn't state that.

If our 529 had $250K+, sure, but I don't think the PP has that much in their 529.

Like I said, we have enough for in state in our 529, but at $80/year with two kids, we'd still have to cash flow at least $300K.

And I disagree about not maxing out retirement. What is a "healthy" amount in retirement ? We aren't feds, so we have to pay for our own health insurance. I'm not planning to work until I'm 65.

You can always borrow to pay for college; can't do that for retirement.

Again, you are making life choices.. if you will not work until 65, which is what you project you'll need to, you need to change your lifestyle or accept your kids cannot go to any school you/they want.

well, duh, of course it's about life choices, but the PP thought $300K was plenty to pay for $80k/year private. My point is that it's really not unless you ONLY save for college, have one child, and don't want to go on vacations (and I'm not even talking about luxury vacations), or buy a new car, or have reasonable emergency savings, or live in a good school cluster (public not private).

We don't drive expensive cars, I drive a subaru. My spouse is from the UK, and we go see their family every couple of years. My family lives out west, so we go see them the other years. Family of four. Do you know how expensive that gets. I suppose I could prioritize college savings, and not see our elderly parents biannually.

yes, it's all about life choices. My kids have learned that. My DC now in college has learned that going to an expensive school outside of T10 is not a good deal. That spending $300K+ for four years just so you like the feel of the campus for 4 years is shortsighted. If you take out loans for those expensive four years, you'll be paying off that loan for the next 20 years.

But, those are our opinions and our choices.

I mean, this is demonstrably untrue? We earn more than $100K less a year than you, have two kids, have tons of emergency savings, have enough in retirement savings to retire early if we want to, and are saving enough for college to cover well over half of the price of the most expensive colleges (should be able to cashflow the rest pretty easily, especially since we'll be done paying off our 15-year mortgage by then.) Not sure why you can't do this at your much higher income. Are you one of those "only the most prestigious public schools are good enough for my kids, so clearly we must spend 7 figures on a house" kind of people? Are you way over-saving for retirement at the expense of college?

Nope. We don't live in the best school cluster. It's a good school cluster, but not the best in the district. We did not pay $1mil for the house. I would never do that. One of the reasons I didn't want to live in the "best" school cluster was because I didn't want my kids around that much wealth.[twitter]

I bet you are a fed with good health insurance. Have you tried private insurance for the past 20 years with large medical bills?

Our HHI has not always been $300k, btw, but FAFSA doesn't look at what your income was 3 years ago.

And what do you mean by "oversaving for retirement at the expense of college"? We've been putting in more than $2500 per child per year most years. Our retirement savings is about $2.7 mil, but we are 55/60, and ageism has taken root.

Also, about cash flowing, there is a thread on the Jobs forum about someone being laid off just before the holidays. We have lived through layoffs and ageism. If you cash flow an expensive college, what happens if you get laid off?

Don't think your job is safe. It's not, especially as you get older.

You are like a dog with a bone. Carrying on and on will not curry sympathy. It really just shoves the income disparity in our faces. I have some of your issues on half your salary. (My part of our income is self employed, and most of my clients hired in house versions of what I do leaving me to reinvent myself once again).

Just count your blessings, make the best choices for you kids and your situation and quit complaining about not affording thinks when you make 300k. It's really annoying to those of us in our 50s who don't have your income level.

DP here. If you are happy with your decisions, why are you attacking other people? The OP asked a question. The reality is that the cost of colleges has skyrocketed beyond inflation and the same time the acceptance rate to top colleges has gone to single digits. There are zero guarantees that top grades will get them into the T20 colleges and even if they get in you need to be prepared to be full pay for all your kids. I’m not saying T20 is the end all be all, it’s more the fact that you could sacrifice less and your kids could enjoy life and school more for you still to end up at the same place - your state flagship …and they do perfectly fine there. And after all this angst, we (both parents and your kids coming out of college) have to worry about the next generation of jobs with the rise of AI.

It’s like the Matrix, you take the blue pill and you believe that, whatever your personal financial situation/setbacks, you will surely qualify for aid or your super bright talented kid will get great merit or into the school of their choice OR you go into this with your eyes wide open. I found it very helpful when friends, neighbors of older kids (really good students) let things drop about not getting any aid and getting shut out of the top schools and seeing that things also turned out well (so far) where they did end up. Having honest conversations that were fact and not judgment based allowed me the full picture to make more informed decisions and be strategic in the college lists for my kids earlier in the process.

If you think "count your blessings " is attacking, you've got a real chip on uour shoulder. That person (I don't think they are OP) goes on and on and on about how tough they have it st 300k/year. It rings hollow to those of us who make half that.

Oh, my mistake the statement “You are like a dog with a bone. Carrying on and on will not curry sympathy. It really just shoves the income disparity in our faces.” was not attacking, it was simply a gentle non-judgmental “bless your heart”.❤️ I stand corrected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh gosh, I am so sick of people making hundreds of thousands of dollars and trying to call themselves "middle class." We earn about $150K a year (here in the DC area as well) and I hesitate to call us middle class-- I think we're upper middle class, not quite rich yet but getting there. At $300,000 you are absolutely not middle class anymore- you're in like the top 5% richest households in the area.

Look, I get that paying for college is not easy even at $300K, but haven't you been saving? Even if you only saved like $10K per child per year (which shouldn't be too hard at your income-- we manage it pretty easily at half your income) that should cover most or all of the costs, depending on investment returns.

Many of us feds did not start out at $300k. I started at $45k, and it gradually went up. We prioritized retirement. We had three kids (yes, choices), so daycare took up a lot of our extra money. Our kids were never in expensive activities; we live in our starter home; we own our cars (Hondas); the only vacation we do is a beach vacation to the Jersey Shore. I did have student loans to pay when my kids were young, so some of the money went to that. We were not able to save for college until we started earning more. I honestly don’t know how people save $50k per year on $150 salary. Maybe they didn’t have daycare costs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

No necessarily true! 300k sounds a lot. But after tax, medical and retirement deduction, it is lucky if could take home half of it. With other kids to support, who can afford to use 50% of take home money paying for one kid’s college expenses?

+1

We are paying for two college tuitions right now, at OOS schools with merit aid. There is NO WAY we could pay for an expensive, private college without feeling the effects of it. We don’t take lavish vacations nor live beyond our means — a good chunk of our money goes into retirement accounts and ensuring we have ample savings in the event of a shutdown.

PPs premise assumes they've saved nothing. That is the issue here. At 300K, and saving over 10+ years, you should be able to afford it. No one is expecting cashflow to cover.

And they were probably making $175-250 for a long time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh gosh, I am so sick of people making hundreds of thousands of dollars and trying to call themselves "middle class." We earn about $150K a year (here in the DC area as well) and I hesitate to call us middle class-- I think we're upper middle class, not quite rich yet but getting there. At $300,000 you are absolutely not middle class anymore- you're in like the top 5% richest households in the area.

Look, I get that paying for college is not easy even at $300K, but haven't you been saving? Even if you only saved like $10K per child per year (which shouldn't be too hard at your income-- we manage it pretty easily at half your income) that should cover most or all of the costs, depending on investment returns.

Many of us feds did not start out at $300k. I started at $45k, and it gradually went up. We prioritized retirement. We had three kids (yes, choices), so daycare took up a lot of our extra money. Our kids were never in expensive activities; we live in our starter home; we own our cars (Hondas); the only vacation we do is a beach vacation to the Jersey Shore. I did have student loans to pay when my kids were young, so some of the money went to that. We were not able to save for college until we started earning more. I honestly don’t know how people save $50k per year on $150 salary. Maybe they didn’t have daycare costs?

Either no day care costs or lower cost child care. Three kids in day care eats up a lot. Again, it's lifestyle choices. You choose three kids. And, how you spend your money. We aren't doing a beach vacation, for example. You can save more, especially if you are still in your starter home. You can at least save $10K-15K a year per child.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If my income was $300k I would have zero problems being able to pay for my kid to go to an expensive, private college. You need a dose of reality

$300k puts you in a 30% combined tax bracket if you live in MD, about 27% in VA. Don't forget, SALT deductions are limited, so you will probably take the standard deduction.

If you are 50+, you want to max out your 401k contribution and add the catch up extra $7500, which brings it to like $30K per person.

So, your income will look something like this:

1. 60K 401k (assuming both are 50+ and contributing the max, which you should at that income level)
2. taxes around $60K to $65K

That leaves you with 300K - 120k = $180k.

Let's say your annual expenses is something like $100K/yr in just expenses. You would have $80k left. But that just pays for room and board. Travel and other costs will rack up more. That's just one kid. Many of us have more than one kid who will be in college at the same time.

You will also not have any wiggle room for large emergency expenses or even vacation. If your car breaks down (like ours just did), you'd have to get a loan at 6% to 7%.

My DC is at the state flagship with some merit aid. We told this DC, who had super high stats, to not do ED at the expensive colleges. We cannot afford it, yes, even with $300K per year. It would leave us with so little wiggle room, that we'd be eating hand to mouth for the next 7 years -- we have two kids, and DH is 60. We have enough in the 529s for in state. That would barely cover 2 years of private.

I think you are the one who needs a dose of reality.

NP: I personally wouldn't pay $80K for college--don't think it is worth it for 99% of colleges; however, your analysis leaves out any savings (for emergencies, etc.) and a 529 or investments/assets that could be used to pay for college. Your assumption is that the family is cashflowing the entire cost per year. I also wouldn't max out 401k for 4-5 years while 1-2 kids are in college if your 401k is already at a healthy amount.

Yes, I made the assumption that the PP stated they could pay for private college with $300HHI because they didn't state that.

If our 529 had $250K+, sure, but I don't think the PP has that much in their 529.

Like I said, we have enough for in state in our 529, but at $80/year with two kids, we'd still have to cash flow at least $300K.

And I disagree about not maxing out retirement. What is a "healthy" amount in retirement ? We aren't feds, so we have to pay for our own health insurance. I'm not planning to work until I'm 65.

You can always borrow to pay for college; can't do that for retirement.

Again, you are making life choices.. if you will not work until 65, which is what you project you'll need to, you need to change your lifestyle or accept your kids cannot go to any school you/they want.

well, duh, of course it's about life choices, but the PP thought $300K was plenty to pay for $80k/year private. My point is that it's really not unless you ONLY save for college, have one child, and don't want to go on vacations (and I'm not even talking about luxury vacations), or buy a new car, or have reasonable emergency savings, or live in a good school cluster (public not private).

We don't drive expensive cars, I drive a subaru. My spouse is from the UK, and we go see their family every couple of years. My family lives out west, so we go see them the other years. Family of four. Do you know how expensive that gets. I suppose I could prioritize college savings, and not see our elderly parents biannually.

yes, it's all about life choices. My kids have learned that. My DC now in college has learned that going to an expensive school outside of T10 is not a good deal. That spending $300K+ for four years just so you like the feel of the campus for 4 years is shortsighted. If you take out loans for those expensive four years, you'll be paying off that loan for the next 20 years.

But, those are our opinions and our choices.

I mean, this is demonstrably untrue? We earn more than $100K less a year than you, have two kids, have tons of emergency savings, have enough in retirement savings to retire early if we want to, and are saving enough for college to cover well over half of the price of the most expensive colleges (should be able to cashflow the rest pretty easily, especially since we'll be done paying off our 15-year mortgage by then.) Not sure why you can't do this at your much higher income. Are you one of those "only the most prestigious public schools are good enough for my kids, so clearly we must spend 7 figures on a house" kind of people? Are you way over-saving for retirement at the expense of college?

Nope. We don't live in the best school cluster. It's a good school cluster, but not the best in the district. We did not pay $1mil for the house. I would never do that. One of the reasons I didn't want to live in the "best" school cluster was because I didn't want my kids around that much wealth.[twitter]

I bet you are a fed with good health insurance. Have you tried private insurance for the past 20 years with large medical bills?

Our HHI has not always been $300k, btw, but FAFSA doesn't look at what your income was 3 years ago.

And what do you mean by "oversaving for retirement at the expense of college"? We've been putting in more than $2500 per child per year most years. Our retirement savings is about $2.7 mil, but we are 55/60, and ageism has taken root.

Also, about cash flowing, there is a thread on the Jobs forum about someone being laid off just before the holidays. We have lived through layoffs and ageism. If you cash flow an expensive college, what happens if you get laid off?

Don't think your job is safe. It's not, especially as you get older.

You are like a dog with a bone. Carrying on and on will not curry sympathy. It really just shoves the income disparity in our faces. I have some of your issues on half your salary. (My part of our income is self employed, and most of my clients hired in house versions of what I do leaving me to reinvent myself once again).

Just count your blessings, make the best choices for you kids and your situation and quit complaining about not affording thinks when you make 300k. It's really annoying to those of us in our 50s who don't have your income level.

DP here. If you are happy with your decisions, why are you attacking other people? The OP asked a question. The reality is that the cost of colleges has skyrocketed beyond inflation and the same time the acceptance rate to top colleges has gone to single digits. There are zero guarantees that top grades will get them into the T20 colleges and even if they get in you need to be prepared to be full pay for all your kids. I’m not saying T20 is the end all be all, it’s more the fact that you could sacrifice less and your kids could enjoy life and school more for you still to end up at the same place - your state flagship …and they do perfectly fine there. And after all this angst, we (both parents and your kids coming out of college) have to worry about the next generation of jobs with the rise of AI.

It’s like the Matrix, you take the blue pill and you believe that, whatever your personal financial situation/setbacks, you will surely qualify for aid or your super bright talented kid will get great merit or into the school of their choice OR you go into this with your eyes wide open. I found it very helpful when friends, neighbors of older kids (really good students) let things drop about not getting any aid and getting shut out of the top schools and seeing that things also turned out well (so far) where they did end up. Having honest conversations that were fact and not judgment based allowed me the full picture to make more informed decisions and be strategic in the college lists for my kids earlier in the process.

If you think "count your blessings " is attacking, you've got a real chip on uour shoulder. That person (I don't think they are OP) goes on and on and on about how tough they have it st 300k/year. It rings hollow to those of us who make half that.

Oh, my mistake the statement “You are like a dog with a bone. Carrying on and on will not curry sympathy. It really just shoves the income disparity in our faces.” was not attacking, it was simply a gentle non-judgmental “bless your heart”.❤️ I stand corrected.

I don't care about the income disparity. But, its wrong to act like you are middle class at $300K and demanding financial aid.