SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale
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Anonymous
Interestingly, CA has spent a lot of time looking into tests to replace the “racist” SAT and ACT. All of the tests they looked into had similar racial gaps. The only gaps CA cares about is between black/Hispanic students and white students though. |
Anonymous
NP: 76k applicants >1500 (includes ACT equivalent) is correct according to the Common App. It’s not a narrative/myth. The data is available. See appendix A page 11: https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/ca.research.publish/Research_Briefs_2022/2022_12_09_Apps_Per_Applicant_ResearchBrief.pdf |
Anonymous
Don't think it's the whites that are complaining about test scores |
Anonymous
I don’t believe that a superscored 1500 / 34 is the same as a composite 1500 / 34. I also don’t think a 1500 / 34 on any administration after the first one is the same as a one-and-done 1500 / 34. And, yes, I understand that many colleges and universities seem not to agree with those views - at this time, anyway. |
Anonymous
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It’s GPAs Not Standardized Tests That Predict College Success
High school GPAs were found to be five times stronger than ACT scores at predicting graduation rates, and that the effect of GPAs was consistent across schools, unlike ACT scores.Jan 29, 2020 The findings overturn the conventional wisdom that, while GPAs vary widely between high schools, standardized test results are a more objective indicator of whether a student is ready for college https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickmorrison/2020/01/29/its-gpas-not-standardized-tests-that-predict-college-success/?sh=4bcafc9932bd WHAT ACTUALLY PREDICTS COLLEGE SUCCESS? by Bettina Weil | Mar 16, 2021 | 0 comments In nearly all the research that's been done on student success in college, the most predictive indicator, time and again, is a student's high school GPA.Mar 16, 2021 https://weilcollegeadvising.com/what-actually-predicts-college-success/#:~:text=In%20nearly%20all%20the%20research,a%20student's%20high%20school%20GPA. Research Finds that High School GPAs Are Stronger Predictors of College Graduation than ACT Scores Research Finds that High School GPAs Are Stronger Predictors of College Graduation than ACT Scores WASHINGTON, D.C., January 28, 2020— Students’ high school grade point averages are five times stronger than their ACT scores at predicting college graduation, according to a new study published today in Educational Researcher, a peer-reviewed journal of the American Educational Research Association. The authors of the new study, Elaine M. Allensworth and Kallie Clark, both of the University of Chicago, also found that the predictive power of GPAs is consistent across high schools. The relationship between ACT scores and college graduation depends on which high school a student attends; at many high schools there is no connection between students’ ACT scores and eventual college graduation. “It was surprising not only to see that there was no relationship between ACT scores and college graduation at some high schools, but also to see that at many high schools the relationship was negative among students with the highest test scores,” said Allensworth, who is the director of the University of Chicago Consortium on School Research. |
Anonymous
I also think superscoring should end. However, the majority of T200 schools and many schools that use the Common App disagree. Only a handful of schools discussed on this board don’t superscore. College Board certainly loves the revenue! Don’t see any incentive for colleges to change. For now that means approximately 76k students are competing for seats at T20/30 schools and 98k additional students in the broader pool of top schools PLUS TO applicants. |
Anonymous
Agree - very credible research suggests GPA is x5 times more important than test scores in predicting future college success. https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickmorrison/2020/01/29/its-gpas-not-standardized-tests-that-predict-college-success/?sh=4bcafc9932bd https://weilcollegeadvising.com/what-actually-predicts-college-success/#:~:text=In%20nearly%20all%20the%20research,a%20student's%20high%20school%20GPA. |
Anonymous
DP Nope - My DC had both very high test scores and GPA that they worked very hard for. They won awards in STEM field at undergrad and post grad level but their supervisor pointed out it was their work ethic that set them apart. I place much more store by consistent hard work ethic: Unsurprisingly, credible studies support that GPA is much more important than test scores for predicting future college success. |
Anonymous
I’m a parent of a good student bad test taker. Glad you’re amused . Why do you care so much?? |
Anonymous
Rank order these students (based on your belief that GPA is 5x more relevant than standardized testing, or otherwise). A. 4.00 u/w GPA (5 APs) + 1400 / 32 B. 4.00 u/w GPA (8 APs) + T/O C. 3.85 u/w GPA (10 APs) + 1500 / 34 D. 3.85 u/w GPA (12 APs) + T/O E. 3.70 u/w GPA (15 APs) + 1600 / 36 For me, it’s C, E, A, D, B. I could also go with E, C, A, D, B. Curious to see how you rank them. |
Anonymous
Every piece of actual research about this issue accepts that there are SAT/ACT scores lower than 1400/32 and u/w GPAs lower than 3.7. |
Anonymous
Where is the credible research there? A Forbes puff piece with no link to an actual report or data or an opinion price from “weilcollegeadvising.com”? Contrast this to the UC regents report (very carefully researched, using millions of student records) and all of the research coming from Kuncel and Sackett from UMN using data from millions of students across many schools. The reality is the people saying that standardized test scores should be considered are the moderate/compromise position. If people were arguing that only test scores should count and we should ignore HS GPA despite ample evidence that it predicts college success people would think you were insane; that’s essentially the same position the “eliminate standardized testing” people are taking. Most rational people know that standardized testing isn’t the whole picture, but can add a very valuable data point in assessing college readiness. |
Anonymous
They’re both reporting on the same study. This study looked at ~17k kids who went to 4-year colleges. These 17k kids had an average ACT of 20 and a 2.7 HS GPA. They binned everyone with a 30+ ACT into the same bin, and there weren’t many students at any of the extremes. I also didn’t see anything in the paper that talked about statistical significance of the results, or error bars. They also didn’t look at major for the students. While this isn’t a worthless result, it’s a very small and underpowered study compared to some of the studies with millions of students, their actual GPSs and majors at the schools they went to vs. “percentage graduating in 6 years” like this study. |
Anonymous
+1. Some high schools are more rigorous so the GPA can not be compared even in the same county. |
Anonymous
| What if instead of TO schools just had a minimum test score and then didn’t consider it further? |