Capitol Hill - middle school and beyond?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. We're friends with two families who left BASIS for SH, one after 6th grade, the other after 7th. Both students were admitted to Walls from SH and now attend as 9th graders. Our kid wasn't admitted to Walls from BASIS despite having a qualifying GPA. Kid refused to return to BASIS for high school, so now we pay for a parochial school for 9th grade, a stretch for us financially.

My message is think twice before you diss SH these days.

It doesn't take much to get straight As at SH. So, not sure being admitted to Walls really means much if you are coming from SH or other DCPS schools with rampant grade inflation and lack of rigor.

Based on the latest PARCC scores, 84% of kids at SH are BELOW grade level in math and 59% of the kids are BELOW grade level in ELA.

The teachers at SH and similar schools are focusing on the vast majority of kids are are struggling, not the handful of self-directed high achievers.

So freagin what? My kids takes honors math and ELA at SH, so isn't in class with the kids who work below grade level. My kid takes 7th grade algebra at SH in a tiny class. This point has been made over and over on DCUM but never seems to sink in.

Exactly. And the statistics indicate that upper-income kids in Ward 6 DCPS middle schools generally perform as well on the PARCC as upper-income kids in Ward 3 DCPS middle schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. We're friends with two families who left BASIS for SH, one after 6th grade, the other after 7th. Both students were admitted to Walls from SH and now attend as 9th graders. Our kid wasn't admitted to Walls from BASIS despite having a qualifying GPA. Kid refused to return to BASIS for high school, so now we pay for a parochial school for 9th grade, a stretch for us financially.

My message is think twice before you diss SH these days.

It doesn't take much to get straight As at SH. So, not sure being admitted to Walls really means much if you are coming from SH or other DCPS schools with rampant grade inflation and lack of rigor.

Based on the latest PARCC scores, 84% of kids at SH are BELOW grade level in math and 59% of the kids are BELOW grade level in ELA.

The teachers at SH and similar schools are focusing on the vast majority of kids are are struggling, not the handful of self-directed high achievers.

That's not how it works-- the bar graphic on MySchoolDC is a misleading display. And it's a year out of date. If you want to actually understand, look at the OSSE PARCC spreadsheet for SY 22-23.

For SY 22-23, so the PARCC given in spring 2023, 29 8th graders at SH took Algebra I and 22 passed (76%). 114 8th graders took the 8th grade math test and 5 passed (a terrible result, yes, but remember-- the better-performing kids took the Algebra I test). So for all 8th graders, 20% passed either 8th grade math or Algebra I. If we count the 3 kids who got a 3 on Algebra I as "passing math" as 8th graders, it comes to 31%. The 6th and 7th grade math scores aren't as good-- 14% and 15% passed the math PARCC for their grade. So the total of kids who passed the math PARCC that they took, including Algebra I 3s, is 21%. Yes that's terrible. But it's not as bad as you're asserting.

For ELA, there's no extra test for 8th graders, so the analysis is simpler. Yes, 41.6 are proficient in SY 22-23 and that isn't very good, but it's not terrible and it's better than the year before.

Some people like to take half of the kids scoring a 3, because some states count a 3 as proficient. If we do that, it's 32% for math (using all 3s for Algebra I) and 54% for ELA.

[Anonymous]

I’m not a BASIS booster by any means, and this whole thread is a tire fire. But daaaaamn, DCPS middle schools as a viable alternative? Laughing at everyone debating this and that of DCPS middle schools. Time and time again, we see the only things truly predicting success out of middle school are 1) RI score (and a DCPS MS honors kid is reading 6 books max in a year, usually only “focal passages”… 4 books/focal passages of 4 books if they’re in general ELA), 2) what today we poshly label as “executive functioning skills”.

On that note of executing functioning, look at the DCPS grading policy. You’re cool with your kid internalizing the “WS”, aka, even work *not submitted* is a 50% in the gradebook? You’re good with your kid knowing they can submit work at any point in the term and their teacher has to accept it? The lowest possible F being a 63%, even if a kid only answers one question of high stakes exam? You’re good with your kid soaking this up and then, fingers crossed, getting into Walls, so they can continue more of this WS, no deadline, 63% nonsense?

Solid pass here.

This whole SH and EH leading to SWW, Banneker, or the dreaded boogie man Eastern (gasp) is hilarious. DCPS is kneecapping kids’ abilities to learn what truly matters in middle schools: time management, task prioritization, organization. DCPS ELA is a joke. Read that curriculum.

Send a kid to whatever school you want, just make sure they understand that deadlines exist, 0 work = 0 credit, books should be read in their entirety, and sure as hell better be reading more than 6 in a school year by middle school.

[Anonymous]

OH parents - you might think your child is better because attends basis not SH. You might think your child gets great education. But … Have you ever seen basis students after school?!? I pray for your snowflakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OH parents - you might think your child is better because attends basis not SH. You might think your child gets great education. But … Have you ever seen basis students after school?!? I pray for your snowflakes.

I’m confused.

Here I thought parents were raising kids and setting after-school behavior expectations. Schools do this too now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OH parents - you might think your child is better because attends basis not SH. You might think your child gets great education. But … Have you ever seen basis students after school?!? I pray for your snowflakes.

Thx for your prayers. Bless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter if SH or EH provide a good foundation, in terms of OP's full question. Because only a tiny percent of kids graduating from SH will go to Walls or Banneker. The rest feed to Eastern. What then?

I mean, to be frank, who cares if SH is a great school that offers a wonderful foundation, if your option after that is (1) a small chance of an application HS, (2) Eastern, (3) private, or (4) move.

This conversation always circles around to the fact that Eastern is not an acceptable option for the vast majority of Ward 6 parents (which is why they have just dismal IB numbers).

This is not true?

This data, https://edscape.dc.gov/node/1640846, extensively discussed on here earlier this summer (search “data goldmine”), shows 10 each to Banneker, MT, and Duke, plus some to Walls, and only 28 to Eastern.

I wasn't talking about where they go, I'm talking about options. And that link clearly illustrates those options.

10 kids to Banneker. Less than 10 to Walls. If those are your prime targets, are you comfortable that your kid will be one of that 11-19 kids? Especially with the weirdness of those applications now? There are no guarantees.

Then you look at the rest of the class. 10 to Duke Ellington -- okay, hope your kid likes piano lessons.

Then there are a ton of destinations with less than 10 kids. JR -- assume people move in bounds for it. CHEC. Cardozo. Wright.

And where else do 10 or more students from SH go? 28 to Eastern, as PP mentioned. And 30 to "Not in Audit." Those people moved out of the district or went to private.

This is your HS path in Ward 6. Are you excited?

Some kids really do like music, or dance, or theater, you know. Going to Ellington is not some terrible fate.

If you look at the number of kids at SH for 8th grade, it's about 150, right? And the application high schools are, by design, for the top performing kids. Maybe like the top third of kids, just to make numbers round. So expecting SH to send 50 kids to the better high schools.

I see 12 to McKinley Tech, 10 to Banneker, and 10 to Ellington. So that's 32 right there. N less than 10 to Walls but it's probably a few. Then of the 30 not in audit, some probably did pretty well and got into decent privates, no reason to assume they're all doing badly. That year's data doesn't happen to include any 9th grade entrants to Latin or DCI, but there's no reason you couldn't have a good lottery number and do it. N less than 10 to Jackson Reed, but again, no reason to assume those kids aren't doing well.

I loathe the opaque and arbitrary selective school application process. Absolutely despise it. But SH's 9th grade outcomes are very much in line with expectations, and if I sent my kid there I would feel comfortable with it. No school can guarantee you a spot at Walls.

"I loathe the opaque and arbitrary selective school application process. Absolute despite it."

But you are okay with the fact that literally the ONLY path through SH into an actual public high school in DCPS (without moving) involves going through this process you "absolutely despise" and hoping you don't get hosed? And this is "in line with expectations" for MS/HS? You are "comfortable" with it?

You and I have extremely different expectations for what it means to have adequate education opportunities in our by right schools. I like Capital Hill a lot but no neighborhood is worth these sorts of compromises -- there are other good neighborhoods. We are out of here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OH parents - you might think your child is better because attends basis not SH. You might think your child gets great education. But … Have you ever seen basis students after school?!? I pray for your snowflakes.

What does this even mean? I see BASIS students after school regularly. They are headed to nerdy school clubs, after school sports, etc. They seem like normal well adjusted kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not a BASIS booster by any means, and this whole thread is a tire fire. But daaaaamn, DCPS middle schools as a viable alternative? Laughing at everyone debating this and that of DCPS middle schools. Time and time again, we see the only things truly predicting success out of middle school are 1) RI score (and a DCPS MS honors kid is reading 6 books max in a year, usually only “focal passages”… 4 books/focal passages of 4 books if they’re in general ELA), 2) what today we poshly label as “executive functioning skills”.

On that note of executing functioning, look at the DCPS grading policy. You’re cool with your kid internalizing the “WS”, aka, even work *not submitted* is a 50% in the gradebook? You’re good with your kid knowing they can submit work at any point in the term and their teacher has to accept it? The lowest possible F being a 63%, even if a kid only answers one question of high stakes exam? You’re good with your kid soaking this up and then, fingers crossed, getting into Walls, so they can continue more of this WS, no deadline, 63% nonsense?

Solid pass here.

This whole SH and EH leading to SWW, Banneker, or the dreaded boogie man Eastern (gasp) is hilarious. DCPS is kneecapping kids’ abilities to learn what truly matters in middle schools: time management, task prioritization, organization. DCPS ELA is a joke. Read that curriculum.

Send a kid to whatever school you want, just make sure they understand that deadlines exist, 0 work = 0 credit, books should be read in their entirety, and sure as hell better be reading more than 6 in a school year by middle school.

+1. It’s a total joke, the grading with no accountability. The grade inflation is massive. It’s a rude awakening when kids get out of that bubble and face reality.

Add onto that the dumbing down of the curriculum and low bar overall…..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How to posters know that the Ward 6 DCPS middle schools do not provide a reasonably good foundation and/or do not try to provide any challenge for capable students, etc.? Personal experience? This board is largely families who (understandably) felt skeptical/unhappy with the area DCPS middle school options, went in a different direction after 4th/5th, and those are valid opinions/experiences but the level of knowledge that most active posters seem to have as to the actual day to day experience at these schools is rarely deep.

What's more, some of the Hill kids at Ward 6 DCPS middle schools read like mad outside school, are provided with writing tutors, math tutors, attend Johns Hopkins CTY camps in the summers, language immersion camp experiences, you name it. It's just not a safe assumption that Hill UMC families with very bright kids who are self starters are going to be behind BASIS pr private school students academically simply because they attend Ward 6 middle schools. This is the Information Age, after all, a time when highly motivated students can learn endless math off IXL, Khan Academy etc. Academic snobs and BASIS boosters maybe in for a rude awakening when a few of these kids crack....HPYC, MIT, Stanford etc. eventually. Hint: it happens.

I don’t think you are really supporting your stance as you think you are. Basically you are saying you are providing an alternate middle school education outside of the full day they are spending at their poorly performing DCPS middle school that is not meeting your child’s needs.

There is no way in hell I’m doing all that with my high performing kid. There are so many hours in the day, so much time your kid has and to waste so much of the day going to a school that is not providing the education your child needs is just sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not a BASIS booster by any means, and this whole thread is a tire fire. But daaaaamn, DCPS middle schools as a viable alternative? Laughing at everyone debating this and that of DCPS middle schools. Time and time again, we see the only things truly predicting success out of middle school are 1) RI score (and a DCPS MS honors kid is reading 6 books max in a year, usually only “focal passages”… 4 books/focal passages of 4 books if they’re in general ELA), 2) what today we poshly label as “executive functioning skills”.

On that note of executing functioning, look at the DCPS grading policy. You’re cool with your kid internalizing the “WS”, aka, even work *not submitted* is a 50% in the gradebook? You’re good with your kid knowing they can submit work at any point in the term and their teacher has to accept it? The lowest possible F being a 63%, even if a kid only answers one question of high stakes exam? You’re good with your kid soaking this up and then, fingers crossed, getting into Walls, so they can continue more of this WS, no deadline, 63% nonsense?

Solid pass here.

This whole SH and EH leading to SWW, Banneker, or the dreaded boogie man Eastern (gasp) is hilarious. DCPS is kneecapping kids’ abilities to learn what truly matters in middle schools: time management, task prioritization, organization. DCPS ELA is a joke. Read that curriculum.

Send a kid to whatever school you want, just make sure they understand that deadlines exist, 0 work = 0 credit, books should be read in their entirety, and sure as hell better be reading more than 6 in a school year by middle school.

Lol. I’d rather my kid understand the real world. IRL, most deadlines can be postponed, lots of people do 0 work and get 100% credit, and most people never read a single book in its entirety. Good for DCPS for making kids understand the system for themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter if SH or EH provide a good foundation, in terms of OP's full question. Because only a tiny percent of kids graduating from SH will go to Walls or Banneker. The rest feed to Eastern. What then?

I mean, to be frank, who cares if SH is a great school that offers a wonderful foundation, if your option after that is (1) a small chance of an application HS, (2) Eastern, (3) private, or (4) move.

This conversation always circles around to the fact that Eastern is not an acceptable option for the vast majority of Ward 6 parents (which is why they have just dismal IB numbers).

This is not true?

This data, https://edscape.dc.gov/node/1640846, extensively discussed on here earlier this summer (search “data goldmine”), shows 10 each to Banneker, MT, and Duke, plus some to Walls, and only 28 to Eastern.

I wasn't talking about where they go, I'm talking about options. And that link clearly illustrates those options.

10 kids to Banneker. Less than 10 to Walls. If those are your prime targets, are you comfortable that your kid will be one of that 11-19 kids? Especially with the weirdness of those applications now? There are no guarantees.

Then you look at the rest of the class. 10 to Duke Ellington -- okay, hope your kid likes piano lessons.

Then there are a ton of destinations with less than 10 kids. JR -- assume people move in bounds for it. CHEC. Cardozo. Wright.

And where else do 10 or more students from SH go? 28 to Eastern, as PP mentioned. And 30 to "Not in Audit." Those people moved out of the district or went to private.

This is your HS path in Ward 6. Are you excited?

Some kids really do like music, or dance, or theater, you know. Going to Ellington is not some terrible fate.

If you look at the number of kids at SH for 8th grade, it's about 150, right? And the application high schools are, by design, for the top performing kids. Maybe like the top third of kids, just to make numbers round. So expecting SH to send 50 kids to the better high schools.

I see 12 to McKinley Tech, 10 to Banneker, and 10 to Ellington. So that's 32 right there. N less than 10 to Walls but it's probably a few. Then of the 30 not in audit, some probably did pretty well and got into decent privates, no reason to assume they're all doing badly. That year's data doesn't happen to include any 9th grade entrants to Latin or DCI, but there's no reason you couldn't have a good lottery number and do it. N less than 10 to Jackson Reed, but again, no reason to assume those kids aren't doing well.

I loathe the opaque and arbitrary selective school application process. Absolutely despise it. But SH's 9th grade outcomes are very much in line with expectations, and if I sent my kid there I would feel comfortable with it. No school can guarantee you a spot at Walls.

"I loathe the opaque and arbitrary selective school application process. Absolute despite it."

But you are okay with the fact that literally the ONLY path through SH into an actual public high school in DCPS (without moving) involves going through this process you "absolutely despise" and hoping you don't get hosed? And this is "in line with expectations" for MS/HS? You are "comfortable" with it?

You and I have extremely different expectations for what it means to have adequate education opportunities in our by right schools. I like Capital Hill a lot but no neighborhood is worth these sorts of compromises -- there are other good neighborhoods. We are out of here.

Huh? Of course I am not okay with it. It's very hard for families. But still, I think SH is producing about as many admitted students as I would expect. About 1/3 of their class goes to schools designed to serve the more capable students, as best I can estimate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not a BASIS booster by any means, and this whole thread is a tire fire. But daaaaamn, DCPS middle schools as a viable alternative? Laughing at everyone debating this and that of DCPS middle schools. Time and time again, we see the only things truly predicting success out of middle school are 1) RI score (and a DCPS MS honors kid is reading 6 books max in a year, usually only “focal passages”… 4 books/focal passages of 4 books if they’re in general ELA), 2) what today we poshly label as “executive functioning skills”.

On that note of executing functioning, look at the DCPS grading policy. You’re cool with your kid internalizing the “WS”, aka, even work *not submitted* is a 50% in the gradebook? You’re good with your kid knowing they can submit work at any point in the term and their teacher has to accept it? The lowest possible F being a 63%, even if a kid only answers one question of high stakes exam? You’re good with your kid soaking this up and then, fingers crossed, getting into Walls, so they can continue more of this WS, no deadline, 63% nonsense?

Solid pass here.

This whole SH and EH leading to SWW, Banneker, or the dreaded boogie man Eastern (gasp) is hilarious. DCPS is kneecapping kids’ abilities to learn what truly matters in middle schools: time management, task prioritization, organization. DCPS ELA is a joke. Read that curriculum.

Send a kid to whatever school you want, just make sure they understand that deadlines exist, 0 work = 0 credit, books should be read in their entirety, and sure as hell better be reading more than 6 in a school year by middle school.

Lol. I’d rather my kid understand the real world. IRL, most deadlines can be postponed, lots of people do 0 work and get 100% credit, and most people never read a single book in its entirety. Good for DCPS for making kids understand the system for themselves.

NP. Sad you are using above as an excuse to justify what DCPS is doing. The rub is that teenagers are lazy and will take the easy way out and do the bare minimum thinking that’s enough. Of course there are exceptions of kids 100% internally motivated but they are outliers. Your kid has a much higher chance of being one of those people you joke about if he is surrounded by such peer groups.

BTW, sure some people get away with crap in the real world. But many of these people get fired or let go. And they sure as hell won’t be getting promoted or rising up the ranks in their career. But you knew that, didn’t you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not a BASIS booster by any means, and this whole thread is a tire fire. But daaaaamn, DCPS middle schools as a viable alternative? Laughing at everyone debating this and that of DCPS middle schools. Time and time again, we see the only things truly predicting success out of middle school are 1) RI score (and a DCPS MS honors kid is reading 6 books max in a year, usually only “focal passages”… 4 books/focal passages of 4 books if they’re in general ELA), 2) what today we poshly label as “executive functioning skills”.

On that note of executing functioning, look at the DCPS grading policy. You’re cool with your kid internalizing the “WS”, aka, even work *not submitted* is a 50% in the gradebook? You’re good with your kid knowing they can submit work at any point in the term and their teacher has to accept it? The lowest possible F being a 63%, even if a kid only answers one question of high stakes exam? You’re good with your kid soaking this up and then, fingers crossed, getting into Walls, so they can continue more of this WS, no deadline, 63% nonsense?

Solid pass here.

This whole SH and EH leading to SWW, Banneker, or the dreaded boogie man Eastern (gasp) is hilarious. DCPS is kneecapping kids’ abilities to learn what truly matters in middle schools: time management, task prioritization, organization. DCPS ELA is a joke. Read that curriculum.

Send a kid to whatever school you want, just make sure they understand that deadlines exist, 0 work = 0 credit, books should be read in their entirety, and sure as hell better be reading more than 6 in a school year by middle school.

Lol. I’d rather my kid understand the real world. IRL, most deadlines can be postponed, lots of people do 0 work and get 100% credit, and most people never read a single book in its entirety. Good for DCPS for making kids understand the system for themselves.

NP. Sad you are using above as an excuse to justify what DCPS is doing. The rub is that teenagers are lazy and will take the easy way out and do the bare minimum thinking that’s enough. Of course there are exceptions of kids 100% internally motivated but they are outliers. Your kid has a much higher chance of being one of those people you joke about if he is surrounded by such peer groups.

BTW, sure some people get away with crap in the real world. But many of these people get fired or let go. And they sure as hell won’t be getting promoted or rising up the ranks in their career. But you knew that, didn’t you.

So what are you arguing? If your Hill kid isn't admitted to BASIS, or perhaps one of the Latins, for middle school and you can't afford private school, or aren't OK with a private philosophically, you have a moral obligation as a parent to move to the burbs immediately to avoid wrecking your kid's life? This is the case no matter how long you've been on the Hill and how close your ties are to the community? What if your family members hate the idea of moving to the burbs, seeing no possibility of happiness there?

If I got your position right, it's bunk. I see parents who go with SH, generally because they didn't get lucky in the school lottery for BASIS or the Latins, supplementing academically to stay on the Hill on good form. Middle school isn't their whole world and SH isn't a bad school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not a BASIS booster by any means, and this whole thread is a tire fire. But daaaaamn, DCPS middle schools as a viable alternative? Laughing at everyone debating this and that of DCPS middle schools. Time and time again, we see the only things truly predicting success out of middle school are 1) RI score (and a DCPS MS honors kid is reading 6 books max in a year, usually only “focal passages”… 4 books/focal passages of 4 books if they’re in general ELA), 2) what today we poshly label as “executive functioning skills”.

On that note of executing functioning, look at the DCPS grading policy. You’re cool with your kid internalizing the “WS”, aka, even work *not submitted* is a 50% in the gradebook? You’re good with your kid knowing they can submit work at any point in the term and their teacher has to accept it? The lowest possible F being a 63%, even if a kid only answers one question of high stakes exam? You’re good with your kid soaking this up and then, fingers crossed, getting into Walls, so they can continue more of this WS, no deadline, 63% nonsense?

Solid pass here.

This whole SH and EH leading to SWW, Banneker, or the dreaded boogie man Eastern (gasp) is hilarious. DCPS is kneecapping kids’ abilities to learn what truly matters in middle schools: time management, task prioritization, organization. DCPS ELA is a joke. Read that curriculum.

Send a kid to whatever school you want, just make sure they understand that deadlines exist, 0 work = 0 credit, books should be read in their entirety, and sure as hell better be reading more than 6 in a school year by middle school.

Lol. I’d rather my kid understand the real world. IRL, most deadlines can be postponed, lots of people do 0 work and get 100% credit, and most people never read a single book in its entirety. Good for DCPS for making kids understand the system for themselves.

NP. Sad you are using above as an excuse to justify what DCPS is doing. The rub is that teenagers are lazy and will take the easy way out and do the bare minimum thinking that’s enough. Of course there are exceptions of kids 100% internally motivated but they are outliers. Your kid has a much higher chance of being one of those people you joke about if he is surrounded by such peer groups.

BTW, sure some people get away with crap in the real world. But many of these people get fired or let go. And they sure as hell won’t be getting promoted or rising up the ranks in their career. But you knew that, didn’t you.

So what are you arguing? If your Hill kid isn't admitted to BASIS, or perhaps one of the Latins, for middle school and you can't afford private school, or aren't OK with a private philosophically, you have a moral obligation as a parent to move to the burbs immediately to avoid wrecking your kid's life? This is the case no matter how long you've been on the Hill and how close your ties are to the community? What if your family members hate the idea of moving to the burbs, seeing no possibility of happiness there?

If I got your position right, it's bunk. I see parents who go with SH, generally because they didn't get lucky in the school lottery for BASIS or the Latins, supplementing academically to stay on the Hill on good form. Middle school isn't their whole world and SH isn't a bad school.

And then what happens if their kids don't get into Walls, which some don't even with terrific grades and demonstrated ability, because the process is both competitive and somewhat arbitrary?