Capitol Hill - middle school and beyond?

[Anonymous]

I think the reason these Capitol Hill area middle school threads run on for pages ad nauseam is that lots of people in the neighborhood have shifted from thinking that you should probably leave by early elementary to you can stay through 4th/5th to a total lack of consensus over whether the middle schools despite their flaws might be reasonably viable and okay (but plan to go elsewhere for high school). The middle school situation is not great but it is also different from some other neighborhoods like Shaw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not see anything really wrong with saying you would have seriously considered or think that you would have gone with in-bound DCPS had you not gotten a lottery spot and decided to attend a Latin or Basis. It is certainly more true for some people than others. But kids really want to keep their close elementary school friends after they scatter. And a lot of people really do have a 4th grade plan that is basically try DCPS if not charter. Sure maybe they would have changed that plan without lottery luck. But who cares. Although DCUM refuses to believe it, I think some people also increasingly have a plan that is just try DCPS.

I believe this for elementary and MS. Not for HS. When someone claims they would have been happy with Eastern, after getting their kids into Walls, I simply do not believe them.

But I also find it condescending when parents who got lottery spots at charters say this because it just comes off as condescending to those of us who didn't get those spots. Just admit that we all tried to lottery into charters, you got in and we didn't. It is tiresome when a family who is IB for the school you attend, but who sends their kids elsewhere, is like "oh it's a great school, we definitely would have been completely happy there if be hadn't gotten into our charter." Oh really? Then why did you lottery for and then send your kids to a charter? Why do you commute further to attend that charter when the IB is just up the street? It really doesn't sound like you think you'd be equally happy at your IB so maybe don't say that.

What would you rather have them say? "Man, your kid is screwed!"? Say nothing and imply it? I understand that this is tough; it was for all that came before. You'd be right here on DCUM complaining about people rubbing it in if they were honest about escaping. Almost everyone I know who matched at Latin, SWW, etc. has some form of survivor's guilt.

Say nothing. That's what you say: nothing. You state where your kid goes if asked. You do not pretend that you would have been thrilled to attend the IB school you rejected in favor of that charter, nor do you comment that you're so glad you were not forced to do so. You do not comment on the quality of the IB school, which you only know by reputation anyway. You are welcome to speak to your experience at your charter. But you don't walk around pontificating about the quality (or lack their of) of education at a school you chose not to have your kids attend, especially not to people whose kids DO attend that school.

Don't put your own guilt or discomfort about attending a charter onto other people. Figure it out yourself. Just be quiet and don't speak on subjects with which you do not have direct experience (doing the lottery is NOT a direct experience with a school).

You are ridiculous. Why are you assuming that people who send their kid to their IB wish they could send their kid elsewhere??

He
Where did I say that? I'm talking about parents who don't send their kid to their IB and then pretend that they would LOVE to do so when, demonstrably, they would not.

We don’t send our kid to our IB, though we moved here planning to do that and were disappointed when the combined forces of COVID and crappy lottery numbers led us to take a different option. Once we went a different route, we stuck with it because we didn’t want our kid bouncing around between multiple schools and friend groups so early on.

[Anonymous]

This. It's tough to plan not only for MS and beyond from Capitol Hill, but for ES. Our kids are 12 and 13 and we've been IB boundary for LT for almost 20 years. We planned to send our kids to LT but didn't after gentrifier hostile Principal Cobbs took the helm and stuck around for 7 long years. We lotteried into a different Hill ES but have never been OK with the MS it feeds into. We don't like BASIS or Inspired and didn't get into either of the Latins. The result is that we've gone with a parochial school in VA, although we aren't religious and didn't plan for private. We didn't think we could afford private during the ES years, but one of us got a much better paying job a few years ago than anticipated. We're hoping for Walls for HS and would consider MacArthur and Banneker. If you love living on the Hill and are determined to stay, you can find your way on the schools front.

[Anonymous]

Pretty much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the reason these Capitol Hill area middle school threads run on for pages ad nauseam is that lots of people in the neighborhood have shifted from thinking that you should probably leave by early elementary to you can stay through 4th/5th to a total lack of consensus over whether the middle schools despite their flaws might be reasonably viable and okay (but plan to go elsewhere for high school). The middle school situation is not great but it is also different from some other neighborhoods like Shaw.

I agree there is no consensus like there used to be, and that leads to debate.

But I also think there are some cultural things about CH that lead to more in-fighting than in neighborhoods like Shaw, Petworth, Brookland, etc., which have similar dynamics between DCPS and charter choices. For whatever reason, CH seems to attract more judgmental personalities. I don't know why this is, but I've lived in DC a long time, in multiple neighborhoods, and it's true. People on CH tend to be more condescending and convinced that their approach is the *right* one, and there's less willingness to say "well every family is different" which is sort of the mantra of DC parents in most of the city, as a way of dealing with the lottery and inequity in school opportunities.

Maybe a higher concentration of lawyers or political types than elsewhere in the city? I don't know.

[Anonymous]

Except most people are not really all that condescending or convinced in real life off this board. Or they do not really seem that way anyways…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Except most people are not really all that condescending or convinced in real life off this board. Or they do not really seem that way anyways…

Agree. If CH parents are using this board to vent their toxicity so that they can be more reasonable IRL, then I'm fine with it!

I do think that MS is when you really begin to see the differences between families and what they value, which is why I don't think a pan-Hill MS would ever work, and don't expect that Eastern will ever get huge neighborhood buy-in. In the suburbs, you have these huge schools that offer everything to everyone, but this isn't possible in DC with the charter system already in place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except most people are not really all that condescending or convinced in real life off this board. Or they do not really seem that way anyways…

Agree. If CH parents are using this board to vent their toxicity so that they can be more reasonable IRL, then I'm fine with it!

I do think that MS is when you really begin to see the differences between families and what they value, which is why I don't think a pan-Hill MS would ever work, and don't expect that Eastern will ever get huge neighborhood buy-in. In the suburbs, you have these huge schools that offer everything to everyone, but this isn't possible in DC with the charter system already in place.

I think you are right you will never get enough buy-in for a pan-Hill MS or large IB investment in Eastern, but I don't think it's because DC is inherently hostile to those things. JR and Deal have this, and Macarthur and Hardy are well on their way. JR offers a huge number of programs and activities, certainly enough to compete with many, if not all, of the suburban HSs.

But I think the way schools developed on the Hill, with first the development of of SWS and CHMS as alternatives to the traditional DCPS schools (and CHMS including a MS), and then the full development of charters EOTP to the degree where a very large percentage of Ward 6 families use charters, both in Ward 6 and in adjacent wards, will make it hard if not impossible to get that kind of agreement and buy-in. Parents in Ward 6 are fully sold on public school choice in a way that families in Ward 3 never were -- they always viewed it as good publics v. private and charters or alternative public schools like SWS/CHMS were not an option as that triangle developed.

I know a handful of families on the Hill who actually really hate the charter school system in DC for this reason, and think it stymied the possibility of a strong DCPS school triangle in Ward 6.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except most people are not really all that condescending or convinced in real life off this board. Or they do not really seem that way anyways…

Agree. If CH parents are using this board to vent their toxicity so that they can be more reasonable IRL, then I'm fine with it!

I do think that MS is when you really begin to see the differences between families and what they value, which is why I don't think a pan-Hill MS would ever work, and don't expect that Eastern will ever get huge neighborhood buy-in. In the suburbs, you have these huge schools that offer everything to everyone, but this isn't possible in DC with the charter system already in place.

I think you are right you will never get enough buy-in for a pan-Hill MS or large IB investment in Eastern, but I don't think it's because DC is inherently hostile to those things. JR and Deal have this, and Macarthur and Hardy are well on their way. JR offers a huge number of programs and activities, certainly enough to compete with many, if not all, of the suburban HSs.

But I think the way schools developed on the Hill, with first the development of of SWS and CHMS as alternatives to the traditional DCPS schools (and CHMS including a MS), and then the full development of charters EOTP to the degree where a very large percentage of Ward 6 families use charters, both in Ward 6 and in adjacent wards, will make it hard if not impossible to get that kind of agreement and buy-in. Parents in Ward 6 are fully sold on public school choice in a way that families in Ward 3 never were -- they always viewed it as good publics v. private and charters or alternative public schools like SWS/CHMS were not an option as that triangle developed.

I know a handful of families on the Hill who actually really hate the charter school system in DC for this reason, and think it stymied the possibility of a strong DCPS school triangle in Ward 6.

That is what my post was saying. The charter system is the reason it is too hard to create a pan-Hill MS, etc. Charters are already in place.

There is an argument that if the choice was between one pan-hill MS and all the charters, there might be buy-in -- that the split among 3 different MS makes it far worse. But I don't know how true that argument really is. IME, by MS, the problems with the way DCPS runs schools became much more obvious, if they weren't already patently obvious in ES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except most people are not really all that condescending or convinced in real life off this board. Or they do not really seem that way anyways…

Agree. If CH parents are using this board to vent their toxicity so that they can be more reasonable IRL, then I'm fine with it!

I do think that MS is when you really begin to see the differences between families and what they value, which is why I don't think a pan-Hill MS would ever work, and don't expect that Eastern will ever get huge neighborhood buy-in. In the suburbs, you have these huge schools that offer everything to everyone, but this isn't possible in DC with the charter system already in place.

I think you are right you will never get enough buy-in for a pan-Hill MS or large IB investment in Eastern, but I don't think it's because DC is inherently hostile to those things. JR and Deal have this, and Macarthur and Hardy are well on their way. JR offers a huge number of programs and activities, certainly enough to compete with many, if not all, of the suburban HSs.

But I think the way schools developed on the Hill, with first the development of of SWS and CHMS as alternatives to the traditional DCPS schools (and CHMS including a MS), and then the full development of charters EOTP to the degree where a very large percentage of Ward 6 families use charters, both in Ward 6 and in adjacent wards, will make it hard if not impossible to get that kind of agreement and buy-in. Parents in Ward 6 are fully sold on public school choice in a way that families in Ward 3 never were -- they always viewed it as good publics v. private and charters or alternative public schools like SWS/CHMS were not an option as that triangle developed.

I know a handful of families on the Hill who actually really hate the charter school system in DC for this reason, and think it stymied the possibility of a strong DCPS school triangle in Ward 6.

Here is the reality. The CH people are engrossed in their bubble. EOTP is not just or exclusively CH. in fact, CH is a small part of EOTP. Charters greatly benefitted everyone and the city in keeping middle class families in the city, helped rising real estate, helped to fuel city coffers, etc…

You might not like charters but your argument that if charters were not around and CH would get middle school buy in never was going to happen. That is the reality, More families have stayed in not only CH but all of EOTP due to middle school charters and you can thank your rising equity because of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except most people are not really all that condescending or convinced in real life off this board. Or they do not really seem that way anyways…

Agree. If CH parents are using this board to vent their toxicity so that they can be more reasonable IRL, then I'm fine with it!

I do think that MS is when you really begin to see the differences between families and what they value, which is why I don't think a pan-Hill MS would ever work, and don't expect that Eastern will ever get huge neighborhood buy-in. In the suburbs, you have these huge schools that offer everything to everyone, but this isn't possible in DC with the charter system already in place.

I think you are right you will never get enough buy-in for a pan-Hill MS or large IB investment in Eastern, but I don't think it's because DC is inherently hostile to those things. JR and Deal have this, and Macarthur and Hardy are well on their way. JR offers a huge number of programs and activities, certainly enough to compete with many, if not all, of the suburban HSs.

But I think the way schools developed on the Hill, with first the development of of SWS and CHMS as alternatives to the traditional DCPS schools (and CHMS including a MS), and then the full development of charters EOTP to the degree where a very large percentage of Ward 6 families use charters, both in Ward 6 and in adjacent wards, will make it hard if not impossible to get that kind of agreement and buy-in. Parents in Ward 6 are fully sold on public school choice in a way that families in Ward 3 never were -- they always viewed it as good publics v. private and charters or alternative public schools like SWS/CHMS were not an option as that triangle developed.

I know a handful of families on the Hill who actually really hate the charter school system in DC for this reason, and think it stymied the possibility of a strong DCPS school triangle in Ward 6.

Here is the reality. The CH people are engrossed in their bubble. EOTP is not just or exclusively CH. in fact, CH is a small part of EOTP. Charters greatly benefitted everyone and the city in keeping middle class families in the city, helped rising real estate, helped to fuel city coffers, etc…

You might not like charters but your argument that if charters were not around and CH would get middle school buy in never was going to happen. That is the reality, More families have stayed in not only CH but all of EOTP due to middle school charters and you can thank your rising equity because of them.

Typo due to all charters not middle school charters

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except most people are not really all that condescending or convinced in real life off this board. Or they do not really seem that way anyways…

Agree. If CH parents are using this board to vent their toxicity so that they can be more reasonable IRL, then I'm fine with it!

I do think that MS is when you really begin to see the differences between families and what they value, which is why I don't think a pan-Hill MS would ever work, and don't expect that Eastern will ever get huge neighborhood buy-in. In the suburbs, you have these huge schools that offer everything to everyone, but this isn't possible in DC with the charter system already in place.

I think you are right you will never get enough buy-in for a pan-Hill MS or large IB investment in Eastern, but I don't think it's because DC is inherently hostile to those things. JR and Deal have this, and Macarthur and Hardy are well on their way. JR offers a huge number of programs and activities, certainly enough to compete with many, if not all, of the suburban HSs.

But I think the way schools developed on the Hill, with first the development of of SWS and CHMS as alternatives to the traditional DCPS schools (and CHMS including a MS), and then the full development of charters EOTP to the degree where a very large percentage of Ward 6 families use charters, both in Ward 6 and in adjacent wards, will make it hard if not impossible to get that kind of agreement and buy-in. Parents in Ward 6 are fully sold on public school choice in a way that families in Ward 3 never were -- they always viewed it as good publics v. private and charters or alternative public schools like SWS/CHMS were not an option as that triangle developed.

I know a handful of families on the Hill who actually really hate the charter school system in DC for this reason, and think it stymied the possibility of a strong DCPS school triangle in Ward 6.

Here is the reality. The CH people are engrossed in their bubble. EOTP is not just or exclusively CH. in fact, CH is a small part of EOTP. Charters greatly benefitted everyone and the city in keeping middle class families in the city, helped rising real estate, helped to fuel city coffers, etc…

You might not like charters but your argument that if charters were not around and CH would get middle school buy in never was going to happen. That is the reality, More families have stayed in not only CH but all of EOTP due to middle school charters and you can thank your rising equity because of them.

PP here and I don't really care. We got tired of this song and dance in the last year and are in the process of getting our home ready for sale and house hunting in the suburbs. I'm just noting what I've heard from some families on the Hill, to back up the conversation that there is a lot of debate over what even is the right course for schools on the Hill. Some people are happy with things as they are, some are not, and amongst hose whoare not, there is no consensus on what should happen.

[Anonymous]

Having lived in both places I agree that hill families have bought into the concept of a school needing to be a “fit” whereas w3 public school families have an expectation that a school should serve all (or at least most). On the hill this leads to a bit more of a love it or leave it attitude whereas you’ll see more complaining in w3.

[Anonymous]

I know of several CH teachers currently sending their kids to SH. This gives me hope for when my younger kids are ready for middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are moving. ...
We are also excited about more space (a yard!), better in state college options, and hopefully a slightly slower paced neighborhood with less crime and general angst. We'll miss the walkability and great transit options, and some of our neighbors

What will your cost difference look like? Saving or losing money in VA/MD?