Capitol Hill - middle school and beyond?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not a BASIS booster by any means, and this whole thread is a tire fire. But daaaaamn, DCPS middle schools as a viable alternative? Laughing at everyone debating this and that of DCPS middle schools. Time and time again, we see the only things truly predicting success out of middle school are 1) RI score (and a DCPS MS honors kid is reading 6 books max in a year, usually only “focal passages”… 4 books/focal passages of 4 books if they’re in general ELA), 2) what today we poshly label as “executive functioning skills”.

On that note of executing functioning, look at the DCPS grading policy. You’re cool with your kid internalizing the “WS”, aka, even work *not submitted* is a 50% in the gradebook? You’re good with your kid knowing they can submit work at any point in the term and their teacher has to accept it? The lowest possible F being a 63%, even if a kid only answers one question of high stakes exam? You’re good with your kid soaking this up and then, fingers crossed, getting into Walls, so they can continue more of this WS, no deadline, 63% nonsense?

Solid pass here.

This whole SH and EH leading to SWW, Banneker, or the dreaded boogie man Eastern (gasp) is hilarious. DCPS is kneecapping kids’ abilities to learn what truly matters in middle schools: time management, task prioritization, organization. DCPS ELA is a joke. Read that curriculum.

Send a kid to whatever school you want, just make sure they understand that deadlines exist, 0 work = 0 credit, books should be read in their entirety, and sure as hell better be reading more than 6 in a school year by middle school.

Lol. I’d rather my kid understand the real world. IRL, most deadlines can be postponed, lots of people do 0 work and get 100% credit, and most people never read a single book in its entirety. Good for DCPS for making kids understand the system for themselves.

NP. Sad you are using above as an excuse to justify what DCPS is doing. The rub is that teenagers are lazy and will take the easy way out and do the bare minimum thinking that’s enough. Of course there are exceptions of kids 100% internally motivated but they are outliers. Your kid has a much higher chance of being one of those people you joke about if he is surrounded by such peer groups.

BTW, sure some people get away with crap in the real world. But many of these people get fired or let go. And they sure as hell won’t be getting promoted or rising up the ranks in their career. But you knew that, didn’t you.

Tell me you’ve never worked in any organization ever. Because if you have, you would have definitely seen this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not a BASIS booster by any means, and this whole thread is a tire fire. But daaaaamn, DCPS middle schools as a viable alternative? Laughing at everyone debating this and that of DCPS middle schools. Time and time again, we see the only things truly predicting success out of middle school are 1) RI score (and a DCPS MS honors kid is reading 6 books max in a year, usually only “focal passages”… 4 books/focal passages of 4 books if they’re in general ELA), 2) what today we poshly label as “executive functioning skills”.

On that note of executing functioning, look at the DCPS grading policy. You’re cool with your kid internalizing the “WS”, aka, even work *not submitted* is a 50% in the gradebook? You’re good with your kid knowing they can submit work at any point in the term and their teacher has to accept it? The lowest possible F being a 63%, even if a kid only answers one question of high stakes exam? You’re good with your kid soaking this up and then, fingers crossed, getting into Walls, so they can continue more of this WS, no deadline, 63% nonsense?

Solid pass here.

This whole SH and EH leading to SWW, Banneker, or the dreaded boogie man Eastern (gasp) is hilarious. DCPS is kneecapping kids’ abilities to learn what truly matters in middle schools: time management, task prioritization, organization. DCPS ELA is a joke. Read that curriculum.

Send a kid to whatever school you want, just make sure they understand that deadlines exist, 0 work = 0 credit, books should be read in their entirety, and sure as hell better be reading more than 6 in a school year by middle school.

Lol. I’d rather my kid understand the real world. IRL, most deadlines can be postponed, lots of people do 0 work and get 100% credit, and most people never read a single book in its entirety. Good for DCPS for making kids understand the system for themselves.

NP. Sad you are using above as an excuse to justify what DCPS is doing. The rub is that teenagers are lazy and will take the easy way out and do the bare minimum thinking that’s enough. Of course there are exceptions of kids 100% internally motivated but they are outliers. Your kid has a much higher chance of being one of those people you joke about if he is surrounded by such peer groups.

BTW, sure some people get away with crap in the real world. But many of these people get fired or let go. And they sure as hell won’t be getting promoted or rising up the ranks in their career. But you knew that, didn’t you.

So what are you arguing? If your Hill kid isn't admitted to BASIS, or perhaps one of the Latins, for middle school and you can't afford private school, or aren't OK with a private philosophically, you have a moral obligation as a parent to move to the burbs immediately to avoid wrecking your kid's life? This is the case no matter how long you've been on the Hill and how close your ties are to the community? What if your family members hate the idea of moving to the burbs, seeing no possibility of happiness there?

If I got your position right, it's bunk. I see parents who go with SH, generally because they didn't get lucky in the school lottery for BASIS or the Latins, supplementing academically to stay on the Hill on good form. Middle school isn't their whole world and SH isn't a bad school.

And then what happens if their kids don't get into Walls, which some don't even with terrific grades and demonstrated ability, because the process is both competitive and somewhat arbitrary?

If they don’t get into Walls, they go to Banneker or McKinley or Duke (or Gonzaga or some other private). Some people even prefer one of those schools. Walls is fine, but it has a very hands-off philosophy, and that doesn’t suit every kid (not even every kid with “terrific grades and demonstrated ability”).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not a BASIS booster by any means, and this whole thread is a tire fire. But daaaaamn, DCPS middle schools as a viable alternative? Laughing at everyone debating this and that of DCPS middle schools. Time and time again, we see the only things truly predicting success out of middle school are 1) RI score (and a DCPS MS honors kid is reading 6 books max in a year, usually only “focal passages”… 4 books/focal passages of 4 books if they’re in general ELA), 2) what today we poshly label as “executive functioning skills”.

On that note of executing functioning, look at the DCPS grading policy. You’re cool with your kid internalizing the “WS”, aka, even work *not submitted* is a 50% in the gradebook? You’re good with your kid knowing they can submit work at any point in the term and their teacher has to accept it? The lowest possible F being a 63%, even if a kid only answers one question of high stakes exam? You’re good with your kid soaking this up and then, fingers crossed, getting into Walls, so they can continue more of this WS, no deadline, 63% nonsense?

Solid pass here.

This whole SH and EH leading to SWW, Banneker, or the dreaded boogie man Eastern (gasp) is hilarious. DCPS is kneecapping kids’ abilities to learn what truly matters in middle schools: time management, task prioritization, organization. DCPS ELA is a joke. Read that curriculum.

Send a kid to whatever school you want, just make sure they understand that deadlines exist, 0 work = 0 credit, books should be read in their entirety, and sure as hell better be reading more than 6 in a school year by middle school.

Lol. I’d rather my kid understand the real world. IRL, most deadlines can be postponed, lots of people do 0 work and get 100% credit, and most people never read a single book in its entirety. Good for DCPS for making kids understand the system for themselves.

NP. Sad you are using above as an excuse to justify what DCPS is doing. The rub is that teenagers are lazy and will take the easy way out and do the bare minimum thinking that’s enough. Of course there are exceptions of kids 100% internally motivated but they are outliers. Your kid has a much higher chance of being one of those people you joke about if he is surrounded by such peer groups.

BTW, sure some people get away with crap in the real world. But many of these people get fired or let go. And they sure as hell won’t be getting promoted or rising up the ranks in their career. But you knew that, didn’t you.

So what are you arguing? If your Hill kid isn't admitted to BASIS, or perhaps one of the Latins, for middle school and you can't afford private school, or aren't OK with a private philosophically, you have a moral obligation as a parent to move to the burbs immediately to avoid wrecking your kid's life? This is the case no matter how long you've been on the Hill and how close your ties are to the community? What if your family members hate the idea of moving to the burbs, seeing no possibility of happiness there?

If I got your position right, it's bunk. I see parents who go with SH, generally because they didn't get lucky in the school lottery for BASIS or the Latins, supplementing academically to stay on the Hill on good form. Middle school isn't their whole world and SH isn't a bad school.

And then what happens if their kids don't get into Walls, which some don't even with terrific grades and demonstrated ability, because the process is both competitive and somewhat arbitrary?

If they don’t get into Walls, they go to Banneker or McKinley or Duke (or Gonzaga or some other private). Some people even prefer one of those schools. Walls is fine, but it has a very hands-off philosophy, and that doesn’t suit every kid (not even every kid with “terrific grades and demonstrated ability”).

This. Yes, it's an annoying system and the unpredictability is a real hardship. But all we're saying is, it's not SH's fault that application high school is like this, and it doesn't make SH a bad school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not a BASIS booster by any means, and this whole thread is a tire fire. But daaaaamn, DCPS middle schools as a viable alternative? Laughing at everyone debating this and that of DCPS middle schools. Time and time again, we see the only things truly predicting success out of middle school are 1) RI score (and a DCPS MS honors kid is reading 6 books max in a year, usually only “focal passages”… 4 books/focal passages of 4 books if they’re in general ELA), 2) what today we poshly label as “executive functioning skills”.

On that note of executing functioning, look at the DCPS grading policy. You’re cool with your kid internalizing the “WS”, aka, even work *not submitted* is a 50% in the gradebook? You’re good with your kid knowing they can submit work at any point in the term and their teacher has to accept it? The lowest possible F being a 63%, even if a kid only answers one question of high stakes exam? You’re good with your kid soaking this up and then, fingers crossed, getting into Walls, so they can continue more of this WS, no deadline, 63% nonsense?

Solid pass here.

This whole SH and EH leading to SWW, Banneker, or the dreaded boogie man Eastern (gasp) is hilarious. DCPS is kneecapping kids’ abilities to learn what truly matters in middle schools: time management, task prioritization, organization. DCPS ELA is a joke. Read that curriculum.

Send a kid to whatever school you want, just make sure they understand that deadlines exist, 0 work = 0 credit, books should be read in their entirety, and sure as hell better be reading more than 6 in a school year by middle school.

Lol. I’d rather my kid understand the real world. IRL, most deadlines can be postponed, lots of people do 0 work and get 100% credit, and most people never read a single book in its entirety. Good for DCPS for making kids understand the system for themselves.

NP. Sad you are using above as an excuse to justify what DCPS is doing. The rub is that teenagers are lazy and will take the easy way out and do the bare minimum thinking that’s enough. Of course there are exceptions of kids 100% internally motivated but they are outliers. Your kid has a much higher chance of being one of those people you joke about if he is surrounded by such peer groups.

BTW, sure some people get away with crap in the real world. But many of these people get fired or let go. And they sure as hell won’t be getting promoted or rising up the ranks in their career. But you knew that, didn’t you.

So what are you arguing? If your Hill kid isn't admitted to BASIS, or perhaps one of the Latins, for middle school and you can't afford private school, or aren't OK with a private philosophically, you have a moral obligation as a parent to move to the burbs immediately to avoid wrecking your kid's life? This is the case no matter how long you've been on the Hill and how close your ties are to the community? What if your family members hate the idea of moving to the burbs, seeing no possibility of happiness there?

If I got your position right, it's bunk. I see parents who go with SH, generally because they didn't get lucky in the school lottery for BASIS or the Latins, supplementing academically to stay on the Hill on good form. Middle school isn't their whole world and SH isn't a bad school.

And then what happens if their kids don't get into Walls, which some don't even with terrific grades and demonstrated ability, because the process is both competitive and somewhat arbitrary?

You try for Banneker, Ellington, McKinley Tech, CHEC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not a BASIS booster by any means, and this whole thread is a tire fire. But daaaaamn, DCPS middle schools as a viable alternative? Laughing at everyone debating this and that of DCPS middle schools. Time and time again, we see the only things truly predicting success out of middle school are 1) RI score (and a DCPS MS honors kid is reading 6 books max in a year, usually only “focal passages”… 4 books/focal passages of 4 books if they’re in general ELA), 2) what today we poshly label as “executive functioning skills”.

On that note of executing functioning, look at the DCPS grading policy. You’re cool with your kid internalizing the “WS”, aka, even work *not submitted* is a 50% in the gradebook? You’re good with your kid knowing they can submit work at any point in the term and their teacher has to accept it? The lowest possible F being a 63%, even if a kid only answers one question of high stakes exam? You’re good with your kid soaking this up and then, fingers crossed, getting into Walls, so they can continue more of this WS, no deadline, 63% nonsense?

Solid pass here.

This whole SH and EH leading to SWW, Banneker, or the dreaded boogie man Eastern (gasp) is hilarious. DCPS is kneecapping kids’ abilities to learn what truly matters in middle schools: time management, task prioritization, organization. DCPS ELA is a joke. Read that curriculum.

Send a kid to whatever school you want, just make sure they understand that deadlines exist, 0 work = 0 credit, books should be read in their entirety, and sure as hell better be reading more than 6 in a school year by middle school.

Lol. I’d rather my kid understand the real world. IRL, most deadlines can be postponed, lots of people do 0 work and get 100% credit, and most people never read a single book in its entirety. Good for DCPS for making kids understand the system for themselves.

NP. Sad you are using above as an excuse to justify what DCPS is doing. The rub is that teenagers are lazy and will take the easy way out and do the bare minimum thinking that’s enough. Of course there are exceptions of kids 100% internally motivated but they are outliers. Your kid has a much higher chance of being one of those people you joke about if he is surrounded by such peer groups.

BTW, sure some people get away with crap in the real world. But many of these people get fired or let go. And they sure as hell won’t be getting promoted or rising up the ranks in their career. But you knew that, didn’t you.

So what are you arguing? If your Hill kid isn't admitted to BASIS, or perhaps one of the Latins, for middle school and you can't afford private school, or aren't OK with a private philosophically, you have a moral obligation as a parent to move to the burbs immediately to avoid wrecking your kid's life? This is the case no matter how long you've been on the Hill and how close your ties are to the community? What if your family members hate the idea of moving to the burbs, seeing no possibility of happiness there?

If I got your position right, it's bunk. I see parents who go with SH, generally because they didn't get lucky in the school lottery for BASIS or the Latins, supplementing academically to stay on the Hill on good form. Middle school isn't their whole world and SH isn't a bad school.

And then what happens if their kids don't get into Walls, which some don't even with terrific grades and demonstrated ability, because the process is both competitive and somewhat arbitrary?

If they don’t get into Walls, they go to Banneker or McKinley or Duke (or Gonzaga or some other private). Some people even prefer one of those schools. Walls is fine, but it has a very hands-off philosophy, and that doesn’t suit every kid (not even every kid with “terrific grades and demonstrated ability”).

This. Yes, it's an annoying system and the unpredictability is a real hardship. But all we're saying is, it's not SH's fault that application high school is like this, and it doesn't make SH a bad school.

And all I am saying is that I actually think SH's quality as a school is irrelevant. I won't send my kid there because it has no acceptable HS feed. That's the whole problem.

I also don't like the BASIS approach, btw, so we won't even lottery there.

To me, the only acceptable public high schools in DC are: JR, Macarthur, Walls, Latin, DCI, Banneker. I don't consider McKinley Tech an acceptable option based on what I know about the program, and I'm not wild about my kid attending a performing arts high school unless they actually intend to pursue that as a profession, which I think is highly unlikely for my kids.

So of the acceptable, to me, HS options in DC, SH sent 10 to Banneker, and somewhere between 1 and 9 to Walls. No path to Latin or DCI from SH. And the only way to get to JR or Macarthur from SH is to move.

No thank you. Until you can fix the HS feed, you are never going to get the buy in you want for SH.

[Anonymous]

LOL. Tell us exactly what it is about MacArthur — a school with a whopping two weeks of history — that elevates it above nearly all other public and charter high schools in DC.

What specifically has MacArthur done that the others haven’t?

[Anonymous]

The fact that DCPS allows middle school students to turn in work late for PARTIAL (not full) credit is such an arbitrary red herring for middle school quality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LOL. Tell us exactly what it is about MacArthur — a school with a whopping two weeks of history — that elevates it above nearly all other public and charter high schools in DC.

What specifically has MacArthur done that the others haven’t?

MacArthur has gotten good buy in from their feeder MS (Hardy) which has strong PARCC scores and gets decent reviews from families.

It's so weird to me how many of you want to talk about these schools in isolation. It's an eco-system. The CH eco-system is broken because of Eastern. You can have individual schools that will meet the needs of students, but families will continue to flee because they are looking at the big picture, K-12.

I'd much rather be a Hardy family dealing with breaking in a brand new high school, than an SH family dealing with the application/lottery/private/move dance.

[Anonymous]

The Cap Hill middle school system is broken not because of Eastern but because DCPS insists on feeding the strong elementary schools into multiple different middle schools, even though those schools are all in close proximity to each other, because “equity.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Cap Hill middle school system is broken not because of Eastern but because DCPS insists on feeding the strong elementary schools into multiple different middle schools, even though those schools are all in close proximity to each other, because “equity.”

THIS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. We're friends with two families who left BASIS for SH, one after 6th grade, the other after 7th. Both students were admitted to Walls from SH and now attend as 9th graders. Our kid wasn't admitted to Walls from BASIS despite having a qualifying GPA. Kid refused to return to BASIS for high school, so now we pay for a parochial school for 9th grade, a stretch for us financially.

My message is think twice before you diss SH these days.

It doesn't take much to get straight As at SH. So, not sure being admitted to Walls really means much if you are coming from SH or other DCPS schools with rampant grade inflation and lack of rigor.

Based on the latest PARCC scores, 84% of kids at SH are BELOW grade level in math and 59% of the kids are BELOW grade level in ELA.

The teachers at SH and similar schools are focusing on the vast majority of kids are are struggling, not the handful of self-directed high achievers.

SH is officially, transparently tracked for math, so the teacher in the on/above grade level math class doesn't have to worry about the below grade level students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Cap Hill middle school system is broken not because of Eastern but because DCPS insists on feeding the strong elementary schools into multiple different middle schools, even though those schools are all in close proximity to each other, because “equity.”

I used to think this too but I disagree because I've watched as all three middle schools have improved and gotten more IB buy in. It's changed a lot.

Eastern is the problem. Even if you consolidated these middle schools so that the more advanced students at each could have a larger cohort, I don't think you'd see the cohort moving on to Easter. Most of them would still depart for application schools, private, and the suburbs.

Part of the issue is stakes. MS is something you have to get through, ideally with your kid getting the preparation they need to do well in HS. But HS is make or break in terms of college. So some families are willing to send their kid to a MS that has overall weak scores, as long as they can be assured their own child will be in a tracked class with more advanced instruction. But the trust isn't there for HS, and the ability of a family to use outside enrichment or supplementing to address deficiencies is low. You can put a 7th grader in math enrichment and get them on track. Best of luck finding something that will replace AP physics when it turns out the HS doesn't have a teacher for it or the class is simply not meeting minimal expectations to prep your kid for the exam or college.

Eastern is the problem, it's just that some of you are still living in the denial of "HS will work out if I can just solve MS." I've been there, but eventually you realize that figuring out MS is the least of your worries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Cap Hill middle school system is broken not because of Eastern but because DCPS insists on feeding the strong elementary schools into multiple different middle schools, even though those schools are all in close proximity to each other, because “equity.”

I used to think this too but I disagree because I've watched as all three middle schools have improved and gotten more IB buy in. It's changed a lot.

Eastern is the problem. Even if you consolidated these middle schools so that the more advanced students at each could have a larger cohort, I don't think you'd see the cohort moving on to Easter. Most of them would still depart for application schools, private, and the suburbs.

Part of the issue is stakes. MS is something you have to get through, ideally with your kid getting the preparation they need to do well in HS. But HS is make or break in terms of college. So some families are willing to send their kid to a MS that has overall weak scores, as long as they can be assured their own child will be in a tracked class with more advanced instruction. But the trust isn't there for HS, and the ability of a family to use outside enrichment or supplementing to address deficiencies is low. You can put a 7th grader in math enrichment and get them on track. Best of luck finding something that will replace AP physics when it turns out the HS doesn't have a teacher for it or the class is simply not meeting minimal expectations to prep your kid for the exam or college.

Eastern is the problem, it's just that some of you are still living in the denial of "HS will work out if I can just solve MS." I've been there, but eventually you realize that figuring out MS is the least of your worries.

I think you're both right & wrong. I think it will always be hard to get a cohort of kids to make the jump from CH MSes to Eastern for a variety of reasons, but if Maury/Brent/LT/SWS all fed to 1 MS (+ whichever other schools you want; I'd actually love for all Hill schools to feed to a pan-Hill MS), it would immediately be academically equivalent to Deal & Hardy at the sharp end and parents could focus on the HS issue instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Cap Hill middle school system is broken not because of Eastern but because DCPS insists on feeding the strong elementary schools into multiple different middle schools, even though those schools are all in close proximity to each other, because “equity.”

I used to think this too but I disagree because I've watched as all three middle schools have improved and gotten more IB buy in. It's changed a lot.

Eastern is the problem. Even if you consolidated these middle schools so that the more advanced students at each could have a larger cohort, I don't think you'd see the cohort moving on to Easter. Most of them would still depart for application schools, private, and the suburbs.

Part of the issue is stakes. MS is something you have to get through, ideally with your kid getting the preparation they need to do well in HS. But HS is make or break in terms of college. So some families are willing to send their kid to a MS that has overall weak scores, as long as they can be assured their own child will be in a tracked class with more advanced instruction. But the trust isn't there for HS, and the ability of a family to use outside enrichment or supplementing to address deficiencies is low. You can put a 7th grader in math enrichment and get them on track. Best of luck finding something that will replace AP physics when it turns out the HS doesn't have a teacher for it or the class is simply not meeting minimal expectations to prep your kid for the exam or college.

Eastern is the problem, it's just that some of you are still living in the denial of "HS will work out if I can just solve MS." I've been there, but eventually you realize that figuring out MS is the least of your worries.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Cap Hill middle school system is broken not because of Eastern but because DCPS insists on feeding the strong elementary schools into multiple different middle schools, even though those schools are all in close proximity to each other, because “equity.”

I used to think this too but I disagree because I've watched as all three middle schools have improved and gotten more IB buy in. It's changed a lot.

Eastern is the problem. Even if you consolidated these middle schools so that the more advanced students at each could have a larger cohort, I don't think you'd see the cohort moving on to Easter. Most of them would still depart for application schools, private, and the suburbs.

Part of the issue is stakes. MS is something you have to get through, ideally with your kid getting the preparation they need to do well in HS. But HS is make or break in terms of college. So some families are willing to send their kid to a MS that has overall weak scores, as long as they can be assured their own child will be in a tracked class with more advanced instruction. But the trust isn't there for HS, and the ability of a family to use outside enrichment or supplementing to address deficiencies is low. You can put a 7th grader in math enrichment and get them on track. Best of luck finding something that will replace AP physics when it turns out the HS doesn't have a teacher for it or the class is simply not meeting minimal expectations to prep your kid for the exam or college.

Eastern is the problem, it's just that some of you are still living in the denial of "HS will work out if I can just solve MS." I've been there, but eventually you realize that figuring out MS is the least of your worries.

I think you're both right & wrong. I think it will always be hard to get a cohort of kids to make the jump from CH MSes to Eastern for a variety of reasons, but if Maury/Brent/LT/SWS all fed to 1 MS (+ whichever other schools you want; I'd actually love for all Hill schools to feed to a pan-Hill MS), it would immediately be academically equivalent to Deal & Hardy at the sharp end and parents could focus on the HS issue instead.

I don’t think so. Deal and Hardy are ok, but I wouldn’t send my kid to JR— and those parents have had years to focus on that issue.