Capitol Hill - middle school and beyond?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:One of the nicest things about sending kids to Latin is that Latin parents aren’t DCUM posters.

Ironic

Not really, as I don't have kids old enough to send to Latin. My neighbor told me this, and seeing this thread, I see what she means.

I think some of this is parent self-selection. BASIS has more hyperacheiving Type A parents who want their kids to be the same & are more likely to have kids capable of being the same. Latin parents tend to be a bit more laid back about academics. Latin seems like a lovely, well-run school where kids are happy, but I look at the college outcomes and cringe. Why is virtually no one getting into the kind of school my DH & I went to? BASIS seems to have many issues, but some kids are getting into such schools. Most normal, laid back parents rank Latin over BASIS given everything else... I'd love to be one of those parents. BUT... I have this decision to make very soon & I'm not sure I can be.

Because times have changed and the college landscape has changed. It's a generational thing, it's not just Latin. The kids I interview for my alma mater come from all different schools, are 1000x better than I ever was, and don't get in.

That doesn't change the fact that SOME of them come from BASIS and virtually none seem to come from Latin. I don't disagree at all that it's much harder to get into such schools these days. Absolutely true.

Nonsense. Latin had a Princeton admit this year. BASIS had zero 2023 Ivy admits. They got one into CalTech and one into Johns Hopkins though.

There is something wrong with Basis. With how hard they are pushing the kids and their big talk about rigor, they should be getting Ivy/MIT/Stanford admits, and the fact that their aren't is concerning. Something is wrong with their model, and their execution.

I have no dog in this fight, but what does this even mean? Why must something be "wrong" based on those statistics? Said differently, why is that the metric? I see similar comments on DCUM about Basis and it really seems like Basis is one of those schools people love to hate for some reason. I'm not saying it's a perfect school and some of the criticism it receives is arguably justified, but this particular complaint misses the mark. If we are going to claim something is "wrong" at schools based on poor statistics, I would expect as much ire directed at other schools with poor statistics--for example, DCI which has abysmal PARCC and IB scores. Or pick any number of charter or DPCS schools where most of the kids aren't at grade level (there are a LOT).

It's just an odd observation: the one school that openly aims for rigor get bashed repeatedly on this board for not reaching certain goals that some people claim demonstrate rigor. Instead of embracing rigor while pushing to improve areas of legit criticism, the default on here is to tout lower-performing schools and claim that kids will be more well-rounded and "Larla will simply fall in with the advanced cohort and be just fine anyway." I mean, maybe she will, sure. But it seems like a gamble if most of the kids aren't at grade level.

Again, I have no dog in this fight but it's kind of an interesting observation.

You can't have had a child at BASIS. Their admins preach the gospel of rigor, geared at launching seniors to the country's most highly competitive colleges, ad nauseam from the get go. Families are pushed to sacrifice to make the grade, starting with long evenings of MS HW and 7th grade algebra for all. Then, whoops, not a single senior is admitted to a solitary Ivy. Embracing rigor while improving areas of legit criticism sounds good to me. Problem is the BASIS MO is shut up, do as you're told for 8 years and Ivy Plus schools will be within reach. Our skepticism and dislike is warranted.

They must have changed their approach. I went to ALL of the open houses, shadow days, etc. and heard (and am still hearing) ALL of the preaching. I'm getting all of the marketing emails. The focus isn't on "highly competitive colleges" but rather on the number of students who get merit aid in college. Is that something to preach about? I don't know, and I don't really care about that particular metric, but the school seems to. I haven't heard a single thing along the lines of "do this and you'll get into an Ivy Plus schools."

But if that's the message you received, and your kid didn't get into an Ivy Plus, I can see why you'd be upset. We'll have to agree to disagree about whether having homework in middle school is a bad thing.

My eldest did get into an Ivy+, from the private we left BASIS for. Maybe we can agree that having 3, 4 even 5 hours of homework a night in middle school on a regular basis is a bad thing. That was the story when we were at BASIS. I've heard that there isn't as much HW there these days.

I don't think Hill parents are upset, they're simply less prone to drink the BASIS Kool-Aid than they were a decade back. They're no longer bowled over the wonder of Olga/Michael Block's febrile dream of reforming K-12 ed. despite lacking experience as educators. SH is looking better all the time.

SH? Lol. You must be smoking something.

I wish I was smoking something in having discovered that DCPS rewards loyalty where Walls admissions goes EotP. Our Hill friends with kids at Jefferson or SH all cracked Walls this year. None of our Hill friends at BASIS who applied to Walls did and neither did we. Arghhh.

Well, that is because Walls dumped the entrance exam and moved to a ridiculous GPA cut-off that rewards DCPS grade inflation and doesn't account for rigor.

An A- student at Basis doing work several grade levels ahead would not make the Walls GPA cut-off but a straight A student at Kramer who was below-grade level would.

"Cracking" Walls from Jefferson or SH is not the flex those parents think it is. Sure, their kid might have gotten into Walls but he or she didn't get a very good foundation.

Fortunately, Basis students who don't leave for Walls don't have to repeat a bunch of courses they already did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. We're friends with two families who left BASIS for SH, one after 6th grade, the other after 7th. Both students were admitted to Walls from SH and now attend as 9th graders. Our kid wasn't admitted to Walls from BASIS despite having a qualifying GPA. Kid refused to return to BASIS for high school, so now we pay for a parochial school for 9th grade, a stretch for us financially.

My message is think twice before you diss SH these days.

It doesn't take much to get straight As at SH. So, not sure being admitted to Walls really means much if you are coming from SH or other DCPS schools with rampant grade inflation and lack of rigor.

Based on the latest PARCC scores, 84% of kids at SH are BELOW grade level in math and 59% of the kids are BELOW grade level in ELA.

The teachers at SH and similar schools are focusing on the vast majority of kids are are struggling, not the handful of self-directed high achievers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. We're friends with two families who left BASIS for SH, one after 6th grade, the other after 7th. Both students were admitted to Walls from SH and now attend as 9th graders. Our kid wasn't admitted to Walls from BASIS despite having a qualifying GPA. Kid refused to return to BASIS for high school, so now we pay for a parochial school for 9th grade, a stretch for us financially.

My message is think twice before you diss SH these days.

It doesn't take much to get straight As at SH. So, not sure being admitted to Walls really means much if you are coming from SH or other DCPS schools with rampant grade inflation and lack of rigor.

Based on the latest PARCC scores, 84% of kids at SH are BELOW grade level in math and 59% of the kids are BELOW grade level in ELA.

The teachers at SH and similar schools are focusing on the vast majority of kids are are struggling, not the handful of self-directed high achievers.

From what I’ve heard about Walls, kids need to be teaching themselves anyway, so being at SH may give a future Walls student the skill set they really need.

[Anonymous]

How to posters know that the Ward 6 DCPS middle schools do not provide a reasonably good foundation and/or do not try to provide any challenge for capable students, etc.? Personal experience? This board is largely families who (understandably) felt skeptical/unhappy with the area DCPS middle school options, went in a different direction after 4th/5th, and those are valid opinions/experiences but the level of knowledge that most active posters seem to have as to the actual day to day experience at these schools is rarely deep.

[Anonymous]

It doesn't matter if SH or EH provide a good foundation, in terms of OP's full question. Because only a tiny percent of kids graduating from SH will go to Walls or Banneker. The rest feed to Eastern. What then?

I mean, to be frank, who cares if SH is a great school that offers a wonderful foundation, if your option after that is (1) a small chance of an application HS, (2) Eastern, (3) private, or (4) move.

This conversation always circles around to the fact that Eastern is not an acceptable option for the vast majority of Ward 6 parents (which is why they have just dismal IB numbers).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter if SH or EH provide a good foundation, in terms of OP's full question. Because only a tiny percent of kids graduating from SH will go to Walls or Banneker. The rest feed to Eastern. What then?

I mean, to be frank, who cares if SH is a great school that offers a wonderful foundation, if your option after that is (1) a small chance of an application HS, (2) Eastern, (3) private, or (4) move.

This conversation always circles around to the fact that Eastern is not an acceptable option for the vast majority of Ward 6 parents (which is why they have just dismal IB numbers).

This is not true?

This data, https://edscape.dc.gov/node/1640846, extensively discussed on here earlier this summer (search “data goldmine”), shows 10 each to Banneker, MT, and Duke, plus some to Walls, and only 28 to Eastern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How to posters know that the Ward 6 DCPS middle schools do not provide a reasonably good foundation and/or do not try to provide any challenge for capable students, etc.? Personal experience? This board is largely families who (understandably) felt skeptical/unhappy with the area DCPS middle school options, went in a different direction after 4th/5th, and those are valid opinions/experiences but the level of knowledge that most active posters seem to have as to the actual day to day experience at these schools is rarely deep.

Because do or do not. There is no try. What matters is what they actually deliver for my child. Not what they "try" ineffectively to do. Middle school is only three years, there's really not much time for improvement in the course of a student's enrollment.

For the question of the foundation, please view the PARCC scores.

Please read this for a personal account: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/they-believe-more-students-should-attend-neighborhood-schools-but-what-happens-when-its-their-child/2019/04/13/8e797690-3ed6-11e9-9361-301ffb5bd5e6_story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter if SH or EH provide a good foundation, in terms of OP's full question. Because only a tiny percent of kids graduating from SH will go to Walls or Banneker. The rest feed to Eastern. What then?

I mean, to be frank, who cares if SH is a great school that offers a wonderful foundation, if your option after that is (1) a small chance of an application HS, (2) Eastern, (3) private, or (4) move.

This conversation always circles around to the fact that Eastern is not an acceptable option for the vast majority of Ward 6 parents (which is why they have just dismal IB numbers).

This is not true?

This data, https://edscape.dc.gov/node/1640846, extensively discussed on here earlier this summer (search “data goldmine”), shows 10 each to Banneker, MT, and Duke, plus some to Walls, and only 28 to Eastern.

I wasn't talking about where they go, I'm talking about options. And that link clearly illustrates those options.

10 kids to Banneker. Less than 10 to Walls. If those are your prime targets, are you comfortable that your kid will be one of that 11-19 kids? Especially with the weirdness of those applications now? There are no guarantees.

Then you look at the rest of the class. 10 to Duke Ellington -- okay, hope your kid likes piano lessons.

Then there are a ton of destinations with less than 10 kids. JR -- assume people move in bounds for it. CHEC. Cardozo. Wright.

And where else do 10 or more students from SH go? 28 to Eastern, as PP mentioned. And 30 to "Not in Audit." Those people moved out of the district or went to private.

This is your HS path in Ward 6. Are you excited?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How to posters know that the Ward 6 DCPS middle schools do not provide a reasonably good foundation and/or do not try to provide any challenge for capable students, etc.? Personal experience? This board is largely families who (understandably) felt skeptical/unhappy with the area DCPS middle school options, went in a different direction after 4th/5th, and those are valid opinions/experiences but the level of knowledge that most active posters seem to have as to the actual day to day experience at these schools is rarely deep.

You can go to middle school open houses, meet the principal, talk with families that send their kids there, etc. Because of the lottery system, most schools really make an effort to be available for questions and to show you what they offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter if SH or EH provide a good foundation, in terms of OP's full question. Because only a tiny percent of kids graduating from SH will go to Walls or Banneker. The rest feed to Eastern. What then?

I mean, to be frank, who cares if SH is a great school that offers a wonderful foundation, if your option after that is (1) a small chance of an application HS, (2) Eastern, (3) private, or (4) move.

This conversation always circles around to the fact that Eastern is not an acceptable option for the vast majority of Ward 6 parents (which is why they have just dismal IB numbers).

This is not true?

This data, https://edscape.dc.gov/node/1640846, extensively discussed on here earlier this summer (search “data goldmine”), shows 10 each to Banneker, MT, and Duke, plus some to Walls, and only 28 to Eastern.

I wasn't talking about where they go, I'm talking about options. And that link clearly illustrates those options.

10 kids to Banneker. Less than 10 to Walls. If those are your prime targets, are you comfortable that your kid will be one of that 11-19 kids? Especially with the weirdness of those applications now? There are no guarantees.

Then you look at the rest of the class. 10 to Duke Ellington -- okay, hope your kid likes piano lessons.

Then there are a ton of destinations with less than 10 kids. JR -- assume people move in bounds for it. CHEC. Cardozo. Wright.

And where else do 10 or more students from SH go? 28 to Eastern, as PP mentioned. And 30 to "Not in Audit." Those people moved out of the district or went to private.

This is your HS path in Ward 6. Are you excited?

Some kids really do like music, or dance, or theater, you know. Going to Ellington is not some terrible fate.

If you look at the number of kids at SH for 8th grade, it's about 150, right? And the application high schools are, by design, for the top performing kids. Maybe like the top third of kids, just to make numbers round. So expecting SH to send 50 kids to the better high schools.

I see 12 to McKinley Tech, 10 to Banneker, and 10 to Ellington. So that's 32 right there. N less than 10 to Walls but it's probably a few. Then of the 30 not in audit, some probably did pretty well and got into decent privates, no reason to assume they're all doing badly. That year's data doesn't happen to include any 9th grade entrants to Latin or DCI, but there's no reason you couldn't have a good lottery number and do it. N less than 10 to Jackson Reed, but again, no reason to assume those kids aren't doing well.

I loathe the opaque and arbitrary selective school application process. Absolutely despise it. But SH's 9th grade outcomes are very much in line with expectations, and if I sent my kid there I would feel comfortable with it. No school can guarantee you a spot at Walls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How to posters know that the Ward 6 DCPS middle schools do not provide a reasonably good foundation and/or do not try to provide any challenge for capable students, etc.? Personal experience? This board is largely families who (understandably) felt skeptical/unhappy with the area DCPS middle school options, went in a different direction after 4th/5th, and those are valid opinions/experiences but the level of knowledge that most active posters seem to have as to the actual day to day experience at these schools is rarely deep.

What's more, some of the Hill kids at Ward 6 DCPS middle schools read like mad outside school, are provided with writing tutors, math tutors, attend Johns Hopkins CTY camps in the summers, language immersion camp experiences, you name it. It's just not a safe assumption that Hill UMC families with very bright kids who are self starters are going to be behind BASIS pr private school students academically simply because they attend Ward 6 middle schools. This is the Information Age, after all, a time when highly motivated students can learn endless math off IXL, Khan Academy etc. Academic snobs and BASIS boosters maybe in for a rude awakening when a few of these kids crack....HPYC, MIT, Stanford etc. eventually. Hint: it happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. We're friends with two families who left BASIS for SH, one after 6th grade, the other after 7th. Both students were admitted to Walls from SH and now attend as 9th graders. Our kid wasn't admitted to Walls from BASIS despite having a qualifying GPA. Kid refused to return to BASIS for high school, so now we pay for a parochial school for 9th grade, a stretch for us financially.

My message is think twice before you diss SH these days.

It doesn't take much to get straight As at SH. So, not sure being admitted to Walls really means much if you are coming from SH or other DCPS schools with rampant grade inflation and lack of rigor.

Based on the latest PARCC scores, 84% of kids at SH are BELOW grade level in math and 59% of the kids are BELOW grade level in ELA.

The teachers at SH and similar schools are focusing on the vast majority of kids are are struggling, not the handful of self-directed high achievers.

So freagin what? My kids takes honors math and ELA at SH, so isn't in class with the kids who work below grade level. My kid takes 7th grade algebra at SH in a tiny class. This point has been made over and over on DCUM but never seems to sink in.

[Anonymous]

For the record, there are a number of current 9th graders at BASIS who turned down WALLS, my kid being one of them.

[Anonymous]

Walls is just going downhill with the new admissions criteria. It’s a race to the bottom.

The kids getting in are not as high achieving as in the past. I heard they have remedial math courses for some of the kids.

Getting into Walls anymore isn’t as coveted as before and the peer group is not as strong.

Just get out of DCPS altogether

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. We're friends with two families who left BASIS for SH, one after 6th grade, the other after 7th. Both students were admitted to Walls from SH and now attend as 9th graders. Our kid wasn't admitted to Walls from BASIS despite having a qualifying GPA. Kid refused to return to BASIS for high school, so now we pay for a parochial school for 9th grade, a stretch for us financially.

My message is think twice before you diss SH these days.

It doesn't take much to get straight As at SH. So, not sure being admitted to Walls really means much if you are coming from SH or other DCPS schools with rampant grade inflation and lack of rigor.

Based on the latest PARCC scores, 84% of kids at SH are BELOW grade level in math and 59% of the kids are BELOW grade level in ELA.

The teachers at SH and similar schools are focusing on the vast majority of kids are are struggling, not the handful of self-directed high achievers.

So freagin what? My kids takes honors math and ELA at SH, so isn't in class with the kids who work below grade level. My kid takes 7th grade algebra at SH in a tiny class. This point has been made over and over on DCUM but never seems to sink in.

How many people are in the 7th grade algebra class?