Delta airlines serves man 11 drinks; sexual assault of mom and teen daughter follows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly was the assault? There are such varying degrees and it makes a difference is he touched the girls leg vs raped her during the flight.

He allegedly put his hand on her back (under her shirt) while the girl had her head in her mother's lap (the girl was having a panic attack). The man then touched the mother's leg and thigh. They apparently then told the flight attendants about the assault, but the flight attendants said that there was nothing they could do.

I am NOT blaming the mother but only commenting on what I would hope I would do if in a similar horrendous situation: I am as non-confrontational as them come but if anyone - anyone - ever touches my child inappropriately I would completely go off on them. I'd start screaming as loud as I could and pointing at the person and if no one came to help immediately I'd literally start throwing things (a flight magazine, a blanket, whatever I could get my hands on) to get people's attention to the situation.

No one ever will touch my children inappropriately in my presence.

I’m a pretty passive, non-confrontational and very petite person and I think I’d go ballistic if someone inappropriately touched my son in such an obvious way. I’d be grabbing and twisting his arm away, pulling his hair, whatever to address the threat. I hope I’d be screaming and yelling, too.

+1
I may freeze in disbelief if someone touched me but if I saw someone assaulting my child I'd become enraged to the point where I would worry I'd become physical

That’s not so prudent with a drunk unknown man who could easily go postal and stab your child with a pen. No one recommends attacking sexual predators. You need to get away (hard to do on a plane admittedly.) and if all else fails videotape the behavior (because lord knows the unenlightened half of DCUM/America won’t believe the victim unless they see it videotaped.)

I understand what you are saying but, no. If someone is assaulting my kid I am not going to sit there video taping it.
I am going to defend my kid at all costs. I will not add to my child's trauma by sitting there and not defending them physically if necessary.

Agree. If all else fails I'll be stabbing the attacker with a pen not meekly holding up my phone and asking him to please stop, patiently and kindly.

Come on. You aren’t doing this. That’s why this guy got away with it. Because he knows people won’t do this. Fantasizing about what you dream would happen versus reality doesn’t help the conversation at all.

Try it and find out.

Okay tough guy. 🙄

DP here. You are mistaken. What I also don’t get is why mom didn’t at minimum switch seats with daughter so mom was next to the pervert.

The mom was already in the middle sear, which is clear from the write up. It says the guy reached over her to get to the kid.

Well, at some point the teen was next to the man, apparently in the middle seat.

When the teen’s mother informed the intoxicated man that her daughter was a minor, he drew attention from other passengers when he said that he did not care and proceeded to reach over the 16-year-old to grab at the mother’s arm, the complaint states.

I wish I could see the lawsuit, because the article says that the women then told the flight attendants that the man was making them feel unsafe. Why didn't the mother tell them that he had grabbed her arm?

The People article goes on to state:

The filing states that the “terrified” teen began to have a panic attack, putting her head in her mother’s lap, when the man “frightened” her by putting his “clammy fingers” underneath her shirt and touching the clasp on her bra strap.

That's when the teen jumped out of her seat. It's not clear where she was sitting at the time, but there's no mention of changing seats. It sounds like the teen was still in the middle, next to the man, but leaning toward her mother when he touched her. But then again, who knows, because it says the man then reached over to touch the mother's leg. So he reached over the empty seat? If the mother was between the man and her daughter, does that mean that the daughter was leaning toward the man?

If these allegations are true, Delta should pay. Regardless of the assault, I think they should be responsible for overserving alcohol and allowing passengers to be verbally abused by another passenger. However, I agree with the others that something feels off about these factual allegations.

PP here. I found another article which sets:

"Minutes later, the lawsuit said the girl jumped from her seat when she felt the man's hand on her back beneath her shirt, touching the strap of her bra. The man then reached across the open seat and put his hand on the thigh of the girl's mother, the lawsuit stated."

So the girl continued to sit between the man and her mother even though he was asking her inappropriate questions and was belligerent and intoxicated. Again, not saying suggesting that these women deserved to be assaulted (if the allegations are true), but it is extremely odd that the mother would allow her daughter to continue to sit next to the man, given the circumstances. Why?

Does Delta allow you to sit wherever?

They don't allow you to sit wherever, but you can certainly swap seats, so long as both parties agree. People in the same travel party swap between seats all the time. It's an odd detail if the mother didn't swap seats sooner. The first time I read it, I assumed she was in the middle seat through most of the conflict.

If the father was also on the flight seated somewhere else, then the daughter could have changed seats with him. But she didn't.

There’s exactly ZERO indication that the girl’s father was on that Delta flight. Try again.

Not zero. Someone upthread said he was also on the plane. Which, if that was the case, is a big problem for the mother and daughter's story.

Girl, some rando saying it anonymously on the internet without attribution = ZERO

Exactly. There’s zero evidence that the girl’s father was on that flight. There seems to be someone here defending Delta’s gross irresponsibility for serving up dangerous quantities of alcohol to a drunk man on a flight.

There are several posters surprised that alcohol is free-flowing on transatlantic flights. And disapproving, in a Puritanical sort of way.

11 drinks is excessive. I've flown a lot internationally and the alcohol never flowed that freely. He would have had to make several requests from the flight attendants. They should not have continued to serve him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The reasons I think this one is likely being over dramatized by the compliant is:

1. the creep's actions are so egregious that there's almost no way they would have been ignored by the flight attendants
2. the creep's actions are so egregious that it's highly likely that another passenger would have observed the behavior and also brought it to the flight attendants' attention (which brings us back to #1 --> even more reason the flight attendants would have likely done something)
3. the creep's actions are so egregious that it was likely (50%+?) that another male passenger would have intervened. Either offering to change seats, or even developing into a physical altercation. I'm not good enough of a person, but I'm always amazed at how often men step in to do offer physical protection in these types of situations.

Point being, if the actions ventured anywhere close to what the complaint claims, it makes very little sense that it didn't get caught in one of the above nets.

Horrible to say, I'm also somewhat skeptical of 15 year old girls as barometers of personal safety and comfort, especially ones who self report as having a panic attack based solely on (at that time) verbal harassment. As my kids near teenaged years, I'm shocked by how coddled and emotionally stunted a lot of the 15 year old girls are. Like, we live in a small, wealthy city in the south where I WFH, and my neighbor is a doctor (works 10 minutes from home) with 15 year old twin girls. A couple weeks ago, I got a daytime call from my friend because her girls are home and someone knocked on the door of the house and "they are freaking out" and called their mom at work, who had to call me to make sure everything was okay on the street. Just because there was a knock on the door. That's absolutely insane developmental stunting, and if they were on a plane with a drunk creep who was asking them gross questions, they would totally over react, cite "trauma" and their dad would 100% go up the chain to get some kind of apology or action. I don't think all 15 year old girls are this sheltered, but a lot of them apparently are these days. So when the story turns on the girl self-reporting a panic attack, and feeling highly uncomfortable, i could see there being some fragile egg business going on.

If they were flying US-Greece, then it would be an overnight red-eye flight. With the lights dimmed down and people wearing eye masks and ear plugs, there probably wouldn't be many other individuals paying attention.

The FAs were clearly hoping he'd just pass out blind drunk. That didn't happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not saying what happened was ok but it sounds like there was verbal harassment and some inappropriate touching. Not ok but for the love of God can we stop calling everything “assault” now? It’s out of control.

Also step one for mom should have been to sit between drunk perv and her teenage daughter. It’s shocking that she apparently didn’t do that.

Assault is the reasonable fear of imminent harm. A man touching a girl’s bra strap under her shirt, saying scary things, and touching a woman’s thigh all constitute assault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my 20s, I had a cross country flight and was seated in the window seat next to a man that had spent the many hours before the flight (flying stand-by) drinking in the airport bar. He then ordered three more jack and cokes in quick succession after boarding the flight. The flight attendant then finally cut him off, but he was beyond slurring his words and falling over in his seat. I had my book up literally blocking him from leaning over onto my shoulder and he kept trying to pull it down. The nice man with the aisle seat finally starting trying to engage him to get him off of me.

My teen daughter has flown alone a couple of times and I've told her that if the man next to her touches her in anything other than an accidental way, she is to start yelling immediately that he is assaulting her and she needs to be reseated. There are way too many stories of teen girls trying to be nice and reasonable about it, and then the airline just totally ignores them.

Also, I really don't think anyone should have more than 2 drinks on any flight.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope they get every dime of the $2M lawsuit they followed and he needs to be locked up.

Delta’s actions are despicable.

https://people.com/delta-passenger-sexually-assaulted-mom-and-teen-daughter-lawsuit-7567357

The flight attendants belong in jail.

I agree. Did they at least get fired?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not saying what happened was ok but it sounds like there was verbal harassment and some inappropriate touching. Not ok but for the love of God can we stop calling everything “assault” now? It’s out of control.

Also step one for mom should have been to sit between drunk perv and her teenage daughter. It’s shocking that she apparently didn’t do that.

Assault is the reasonable fear of imminent harm. A man touching a girl’s bra strap under her shirt, saying scary things, and touching a woman’s thigh all constitute assault.

Getting pawed by a drunk guy is obnoxious and, for this girl, panic-inducing. But not $2m worth. Or worth firing the flight attendants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly was the assault? There are such varying degrees and it makes a difference is he touched the girls leg vs raped her during the flight.

He allegedly put his hand on her back (under her shirt) while the girl had her head in her mother's lap (the girl was having a panic attack). The man then touched the mother's leg and thigh. They apparently then told the flight attendants about the assault, but the flight attendants said that there was nothing they could do.

I am NOT blaming the mother but only commenting on what I would hope I would do if in a similar horrendous situation: I am as non-confrontational as them come but if anyone - anyone - ever touches my child inappropriately I would completely go off on them. I'd start screaming as loud as I could and pointing at the person and if no one came to help immediately I'd literally start throwing things (a flight magazine, a blanket, whatever I could get my hands on) to get people's attention to the situation.

No one ever will touch my children inappropriately in my presence.

I’m a pretty passive, non-confrontational and very petite person and I think I’d go ballistic if someone inappropriately touched my son in such an obvious way. I’d be grabbing and twisting his arm away, pulling his hair, whatever to address the threat. I hope I’d be screaming and yelling, too.

+1
I may freeze in disbelief if someone touched me but if I saw someone assaulting my child I'd become enraged to the point where I would worry I'd become physical

That’s not so prudent with a drunk unknown man who could easily go postal and stab your child with a pen. No one recommends attacking sexual predators. You need to get away (hard to do on a plane admittedly.) and if all else fails videotape the behavior (because lord knows the unenlightened half of DCUM/America won’t believe the victim unless they see it videotaped.)

I understand what you are saying but, no. If someone is assaulting my kid I am not going to sit there video taping it.
I am going to defend my kid at all costs. I will not add to my child's trauma by sitting there and not defending them physically if necessary.

Agree. If all else fails I'll be stabbing the attacker with a pen not meekly holding up my phone and asking him to please stop, patiently and kindly.

Come on. You aren’t doing this. That’s why this guy got away with it. Because he knows people won’t do this. Fantasizing about what you dream would happen versus reality doesn’t help the conversation at all.

Try it and find out.

Okay tough guy. 🙄

DP here. You are mistaken. What I also don’t get is why mom didn’t at minimum switch seats with daughter so mom was next to the pervert.

The mom was already in the middle sear, which is clear from the write up. It says the guy reached over her to get to the kid.

Well, at some point the teen was next to the man, apparently in the middle seat.

When the teen’s mother informed the intoxicated man that her daughter was a minor, he drew attention from other passengers when he said that he did not care and proceeded to reach over the 16-year-old to grab at the mother’s arm, the complaint states.

I wish I could see the lawsuit, because the article says that the women then told the flight attendants that the man was making them feel unsafe. Why didn't the mother tell them that he had grabbed her arm?

The People article goes on to state:

The filing states that the “terrified” teen began to have a panic attack, putting her head in her mother’s lap, when the man “frightened” her by putting his “clammy fingers” underneath her shirt and touching the clasp on her bra strap.

That's when the teen jumped out of her seat. It's not clear where she was sitting at the time, but there's no mention of changing seats. It sounds like the teen was still in the middle, next to the man, but leaning toward her mother when he touched her. But then again, who knows, because it says the man then reached over to touch the mother's leg. So he reached over the empty seat? If the mother was between the man and her daughter, does that mean that the daughter was leaning toward the man?

If these allegations are true, Delta should pay. Regardless of the assault, I think they should be responsible for overserving alcohol and allowing passengers to be verbally abused by another passenger. However, I agree with the others that something feels off about these factual allegations.

PP here. I found another article which sets:

"Minutes later, the lawsuit said the girl jumped from her seat when she felt the man's hand on her back beneath her shirt, touching the strap of her bra. The man then reached across the open seat and put his hand on the thigh of the girl's mother, the lawsuit stated."

So the girl continued to sit between the man and her mother even though he was asking her inappropriate questions and was belligerent and intoxicated. Again, not saying suggesting that these women deserved to be assaulted (if the allegations are true), but it is extremely odd that the mother would allow her daughter to continue to sit next to the man, given the circumstances. Why?

Does Delta allow you to sit wherever?

They don't allow you to sit wherever, but you can certainly swap seats, so long as both parties agree. People in the same travel party swap between seats all the time. It's an odd detail if the mother didn't swap seats sooner. The first time I read it, I assumed she was in the middle seat through most of the conflict.

If the father was also on the flight seated somewhere else, then the daughter could have changed seats with him. But she didn't.

There’s exactly ZERO indication that the girl’s father was on that Delta flight. Try again.

Not zero. Someone upthread said he was also on the plane. Which, if that was the case, is a big problem for the mother and daughter's story.

Girl, some rando saying it anonymously on the internet without attribution = ZERO

Exactly. There’s zero evidence that the girl’s father was on that flight. There seems to be someone here defending Delta’s gross irresponsibility for serving up dangerous quantities of alcohol to a drunk man on a flight.

There are several posters surprised that alcohol is free-flowing on transatlantic flights. And disapproving, in a Puritanical sort of way.

Ah, so if you don't support enabling alcoholism, you're "Puritanical." Gotcha.

And yes, if you can't easily make a transatlantic flight without alcohol, let alone a limited amount (say 2 drinks instead of free flowing) you're definitely an alcoholic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly was the assault? There are such varying degrees and it makes a difference is he touched the girls leg vs raped her during the flight.

He allegedly put his hand on her back (under her shirt) while the girl had her head in her mother's lap (the girl was having a panic attack). The man then touched the mother's leg and thigh. They apparently then told the flight attendants about the assault, but the flight attendants said that there was nothing they could do.

I am NOT blaming the mother but only commenting on what I would hope I would do if in a similar horrendous situation: I am as non-confrontational as them come but if anyone - anyone - ever touches my child inappropriately I would completely go off on them. I'd start screaming as loud as I could and pointing at the person and if no one came to help immediately I'd literally start throwing things (a flight magazine, a blanket, whatever I could get my hands on) to get people's attention to the situation.

No one ever will touch my children inappropriately in my presence.

I’m a pretty passive, non-confrontational and very petite person and I think I’d go ballistic if someone inappropriately touched my son in such an obvious way. I’d be grabbing and twisting his arm away, pulling his hair, whatever to address the threat. I hope I’d be screaming and yelling, too.

+1
I may freeze in disbelief if someone touched me but if I saw someone assaulting my child I'd become enraged to the point where I would worry I'd become physical

That’s not so prudent with a drunk unknown man who could easily go postal and stab your child with a pen. No one recommends attacking sexual predators. You need to get away (hard to do on a plane admittedly.) and if all else fails videotape the behavior (because lord knows the unenlightened half of DCUM/America won’t believe the victim unless they see it videotaped.)

I understand what you are saying but, no. If someone is assaulting my kid I am not going to sit there video taping it.
I am going to defend my kid at all costs. I will not add to my child's trauma by sitting there and not defending them physically if necessary.

Agree. If all else fails I'll be stabbing the attacker with a pen not meekly holding up my phone and asking him to please stop, patiently and kindly.

Come on. You aren’t doing this. That’s why this guy got away with it. Because he knows people won’t do this. Fantasizing about what you dream would happen versus reality doesn’t help the conversation at all.

Try it and find out.

Okay tough guy. 🙄

DP here. You are mistaken. What I also don’t get is why mom didn’t at minimum switch seats with daughter so mom was next to the pervert.

The mom was already in the middle sear, which is clear from the write up. It says the guy reached over her to get to the kid.

Well, at some point the teen was next to the man, apparently in the middle seat.

When the teen’s mother informed the intoxicated man that her daughter was a minor, he drew attention from other passengers when he said that he did not care and proceeded to reach over the 16-year-old to grab at the mother’s arm, the complaint states.

I wish I could see the lawsuit, because the article says that the women then told the flight attendants that the man was making them feel unsafe. Why didn't the mother tell them that he had grabbed her arm?

The People article goes on to state:

The filing states that the “terrified” teen began to have a panic attack, putting her head in her mother’s lap, when the man “frightened” her by putting his “clammy fingers” underneath her shirt and touching the clasp on her bra strap.

That's when the teen jumped out of her seat. It's not clear where she was sitting at the time, but there's no mention of changing seats. It sounds like the teen was still in the middle, next to the man, but leaning toward her mother when he touched her. But then again, who knows, because it says the man then reached over to touch the mother's leg. So he reached over the empty seat? If the mother was between the man and her daughter, does that mean that the daughter was leaning toward the man?

If these allegations are true, Delta should pay. Regardless of the assault, I think they should be responsible for overserving alcohol and allowing passengers to be verbally abused by another passenger. However, I agree with the others that something feels off about these factual allegations.

PP here. I found another article which sets:

"Minutes later, the lawsuit said the girl jumped from her seat when she felt the man's hand on her back beneath her shirt, touching the strap of her bra. The man then reached across the open seat and put his hand on the thigh of the girl's mother, the lawsuit stated."

So the girl continued to sit between the man and her mother even though he was asking her inappropriate questions and was belligerent and intoxicated. Again, not saying suggesting that these women deserved to be assaulted (if the allegations are true), but it is extremely odd that the mother would allow her daughter to continue to sit next to the man, given the circumstances. Why?

Does Delta allow you to sit wherever?

They don't allow you to sit wherever, but you can certainly swap seats, so long as both parties agree. People in the same travel party swap between seats all the time. It's an odd detail if the mother didn't swap seats sooner. The first time I read it, I assumed she was in the middle seat through most of the conflict.

If the father was also on the flight seated somewhere else, then the daughter could have changed seats with him. But she didn't.

There’s exactly ZERO indication that the girl’s father was on that Delta flight. Try again.

Not zero. Someone upthread said he was also on the plane. Which, if that was the case, is a big problem for the mother and daughter's story.

Girl, some rando saying it anonymously on the internet without attribution = ZERO

Exactly. There’s zero evidence that the girl’s father was on that flight. There seems to be someone here defending Delta’s gross irresponsibility for serving up dangerous quantities of alcohol to a drunk man on a flight.

There are several posters surprised that alcohol is free-flowing on transatlantic flights. And disapproving, in a Puritanical sort of way.

Ah, so if you don't support enabling alcoholism, you're "Puritanical." Gotcha.

And yes, if you can't easily make a transatlantic flight without alcohol, let alone a limited amount (say 2 drinks instead of free flowing) you're definitely an alcoholic.

A lot of people are scared of flying. That's why alcohol is liberal on long flights. It's not to promote alcoholism. I'm informing you because you didn't know that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly was the assault? There are such varying degrees and it makes a difference is he touched the girls leg vs raped her during the flight.

He allegedly put his hand on her back (under her shirt) while the girl had her head in her mother's lap (the girl was having a panic attack). The man then touched the mother's leg and thigh. They apparently then told the flight attendants about the assault, but the flight attendants said that there was nothing they could do.

I am NOT blaming the mother but only commenting on what I would hope I would do if in a similar horrendous situation: I am as non-confrontational as them come but if anyone - anyone - ever touches my child inappropriately I would completely go off on them. I'd start screaming as loud as I could and pointing at the person and if no one came to help immediately I'd literally start throwing things (a flight magazine, a blanket, whatever I could get my hands on) to get people's attention to the situation.

No one ever will touch my children inappropriately in my presence.

I’m a pretty passive, non-confrontational and very petite person and I think I’d go ballistic if someone inappropriately touched my son in such an obvious way. I’d be grabbing and twisting his arm away, pulling his hair, whatever to address the threat. I hope I’d be screaming and yelling, too.

+1
I may freeze in disbelief if someone touched me but if I saw someone assaulting my child I'd become enraged to the point where I would worry I'd become physical

That’s not so prudent with a drunk unknown man who could easily go postal and stab your child with a pen. No one recommends attacking sexual predators. You need to get away (hard to do on a plane admittedly.) and if all else fails videotape the behavior (because lord knows the unenlightened half of DCUM/America won’t believe the victim unless they see it videotaped.)

I understand what you are saying but, no. If someone is assaulting my kid I am not going to sit there video taping it.
I am going to defend my kid at all costs. I will not add to my child's trauma by sitting there and not defending them physically if necessary.

Agree. If all else fails I'll be stabbing the attacker with a pen not meekly holding up my phone and asking him to please stop, patiently and kindly.

Come on. You aren’t doing this. That’s why this guy got away with it. Because he knows people won’t do this. Fantasizing about what you dream would happen versus reality doesn’t help the conversation at all.

Try it and find out.

Okay tough guy. 🙄

DP here. You are mistaken. What I also don’t get is why mom didn’t at minimum switch seats with daughter so mom was next to the pervert.

The mom was already in the middle sear, which is clear from the write up. It says the guy reached over her to get to the kid.

Well, at some point the teen was next to the man, apparently in the middle seat.

When the teen’s mother informed the intoxicated man that her daughter was a minor, he drew attention from other passengers when he said that he did not care and proceeded to reach over the 16-year-old to grab at the mother’s arm, the complaint states.

I wish I could see the lawsuit, because the article says that the women then told the flight attendants that the man was making them feel unsafe. Why didn't the mother tell them that he had grabbed her arm?

The People article goes on to state:

The filing states that the “terrified” teen began to have a panic attack, putting her head in her mother’s lap, when the man “frightened” her by putting his “clammy fingers” underneath her shirt and touching the clasp on her bra strap.

That's when the teen jumped out of her seat. It's not clear where she was sitting at the time, but there's no mention of changing seats. It sounds like the teen was still in the middle, next to the man, but leaning toward her mother when he touched her. But then again, who knows, because it says the man then reached over to touch the mother's leg. So he reached over the empty seat? If the mother was between the man and her daughter, does that mean that the daughter was leaning toward the man?

If these allegations are true, Delta should pay. Regardless of the assault, I think they should be responsible for overserving alcohol and allowing passengers to be verbally abused by another passenger. However, I agree with the others that something feels off about these factual allegations.

PP here. I found another article which sets:

"Minutes later, the lawsuit said the girl jumped from her seat when she felt the man's hand on her back beneath her shirt, touching the strap of her bra. The man then reached across the open seat and put his hand on the thigh of the girl's mother, the lawsuit stated."

So the girl continued to sit between the man and her mother even though he was asking her inappropriate questions and was belligerent and intoxicated. Again, not saying suggesting that these women deserved to be assaulted (if the allegations are true), but it is extremely odd that the mother would allow her daughter to continue to sit next to the man, given the circumstances. Why?

Does Delta allow you to sit wherever?

They don't allow you to sit wherever, but you can certainly swap seats, so long as both parties agree. People in the same travel party swap between seats all the time. It's an odd detail if the mother didn't swap seats sooner. The first time I read it, I assumed she was in the middle seat through most of the conflict.

If the father was also on the flight seated somewhere else, then the daughter could have changed seats with him. But she didn't.

There’s exactly ZERO indication that the girl’s father was on that Delta flight. Try again.

Not zero. Someone upthread said he was also on the plane. Which, if that was the case, is a big problem for the mother and daughter's story.

Girl, some rando saying it anonymously on the internet without attribution = ZERO

Exactly. There’s zero evidence that the girl’s father was on that flight. There seems to be someone here defending Delta’s gross irresponsibility for serving up dangerous quantities of alcohol to a drunk man on a flight.

There are several posters surprised that alcohol is free-flowing on transatlantic flights. And disapproving, in a Puritanical sort of way.

Ah, so if you don't support enabling alcoholism, you're "Puritanical." Gotcha.

And yes, if you can't easily make a transatlantic flight without alcohol, let alone a limited amount (say 2 drinks instead of free flowing) you're definitely an alcoholic.

A lot of people are scared of flying. That's why alcohol is liberal on long flights. It's not to promote alcoholism. I'm informing you because you didn't know that.

No one needs 11 (or even half that many) drinks no matter how scared they may be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly was the assault? There are such varying degrees and it makes a difference is he touched the girls leg vs raped her during the flight.

He allegedly put his hand on her back (under her shirt) while the girl had her head in her mother's lap (the girl was having a panic attack). The man then touched the mother's leg and thigh. They apparently then told the flight attendants about the assault, but the flight attendants said that there was nothing they could do.

I am NOT blaming the mother but only commenting on what I would hope I would do if in a similar horrendous situation: I am as non-confrontational as them come but if anyone - anyone - ever touches my child inappropriately I would completely go off on them. I'd start screaming as loud as I could and pointing at the person and if no one came to help immediately I'd literally start throwing things (a flight magazine, a blanket, whatever I could get my hands on) to get people's attention to the situation.

No one ever will touch my children inappropriately in my presence.

I’m a pretty passive, non-confrontational and very petite person and I think I’d go ballistic if someone inappropriately touched my son in such an obvious way. I’d be grabbing and twisting his arm away, pulling his hair, whatever to address the threat. I hope I’d be screaming and yelling, too.

+1
I may freeze in disbelief if someone touched me but if I saw someone assaulting my child I'd become enraged to the point where I would worry I'd become physical

That’s not so prudent with a drunk unknown man who could easily go postal and stab your child with a pen. No one recommends attacking sexual predators. You need to get away (hard to do on a plane admittedly.) and if all else fails videotape the behavior (because lord knows the unenlightened half of DCUM/America won’t believe the victim unless they see it videotaped.)

I understand what you are saying but, no. If someone is assaulting my kid I am not going to sit there video taping it.
I am going to defend my kid at all costs. I will not add to my child's trauma by sitting there and not defending them physically if necessary.

Agree. If all else fails I'll be stabbing the attacker with a pen not meekly holding up my phone and asking him to please stop, patiently and kindly.

Come on. You aren’t doing this. That’s why this guy got away with it. Because he knows people won’t do this. Fantasizing about what you dream would happen versus reality doesn’t help the conversation at all.

Try it and find out.

Okay tough guy. 🙄

DP here. You are mistaken. What I also don’t get is why mom didn’t at minimum switch seats with daughter so mom was next to the pervert.

The mom was already in the middle sear, which is clear from the write up. It says the guy reached over her to get to the kid.

Well, at some point the teen was next to the man, apparently in the middle seat.

When the teen’s mother informed the intoxicated man that her daughter was a minor, he drew attention from other passengers when he said that he did not care and proceeded to reach over the 16-year-old to grab at the mother’s arm, the complaint states.

I wish I could see the lawsuit, because the article says that the women then told the flight attendants that the man was making them feel unsafe. Why didn't the mother tell them that he had grabbed her arm?

The People article goes on to state:

The filing states that the “terrified” teen began to have a panic attack, putting her head in her mother’s lap, when the man “frightened” her by putting his “clammy fingers” underneath her shirt and touching the clasp on her bra strap.

That's when the teen jumped out of her seat. It's not clear where she was sitting at the time, but there's no mention of changing seats. It sounds like the teen was still in the middle, next to the man, but leaning toward her mother when he touched her. But then again, who knows, because it says the man then reached over to touch the mother's leg. So he reached over the empty seat? If the mother was between the man and her daughter, does that mean that the daughter was leaning toward the man?

If these allegations are true, Delta should pay. Regardless of the assault, I think they should be responsible for overserving alcohol and allowing passengers to be verbally abused by another passenger. However, I agree with the others that something feels off about these factual allegations.

PP here. I found another article which sets:

"Minutes later, the lawsuit said the girl jumped from her seat when she felt the man's hand on her back beneath her shirt, touching the strap of her bra. The man then reached across the open seat and put his hand on the thigh of the girl's mother, the lawsuit stated."

So the girl continued to sit between the man and her mother even though he was asking her inappropriate questions and was belligerent and intoxicated. Again, not saying suggesting that these women deserved to be assaulted (if the allegations are true), but it is extremely odd that the mother would allow her daughter to continue to sit next to the man, given the circumstances. Why?

Does Delta allow you to sit wherever?

They don't allow you to sit wherever, but you can certainly swap seats, so long as both parties agree. People in the same travel party swap between seats all the time. It's an odd detail if the mother didn't swap seats sooner. The first time I read it, I assumed she was in the middle seat through most of the conflict.

If the father was also on the flight seated somewhere else, then the daughter could have changed seats with him. But she didn't.

There’s exactly ZERO indication that the girl’s father was on that Delta flight. Try again.

Not zero. Someone upthread said he was also on the plane. Which, if that was the case, is a big problem for the mother and daughter's story.

Girl, some rando saying it anonymously on the internet without attribution = ZERO

Exactly. There’s zero evidence that the girl’s father was on that flight. There seems to be someone here defending Delta’s gross irresponsibility for serving up dangerous quantities of alcohol to a drunk man on a flight.

There are several posters surprised that alcohol is free-flowing on transatlantic flights. And disapproving, in a Puritanical sort of way.

Ah, so if you don't support enabling alcoholism, you're "Puritanical." Gotcha.

And yes, if you can't easily make a transatlantic flight without alcohol, let alone a limited amount (say 2 drinks instead of free flowing) you're definitely an alcoholic.

A lot of people are scared of flying. That's why alcohol is liberal on long flights. It's not to promote alcoholism. I'm informing you because you didn't know that.

No one needs 11 (or even half that many) drinks no matter how scared they may be.

There’s an old Law and order episode about how a man had 10+ drinks on an international flight, got belligerent with the airline staff and then mowed down some people as a DWI hit and run after leaving the airport. Not sure if it was “ripped from the headlines.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not saying what happened was ok but it sounds like there was verbal harassment and some inappropriate touching. Not ok but for the love of God can we stop calling everything “assault” now? It’s out of control.

Also step one for mom should have been to sit between drunk perv and her teenage daughter. It’s shocking that she apparently didn’t do that.

Assault is the reasonable fear of imminent harm. A man touching a girl’s bra strap under her shirt, saying scary things, and touching a woman’s thigh all constitute assault.

Getting pawed by a drunk guy is obnoxious and, for this girl, panic-inducing. But not $2m worth. Or worth firing the flight attendants.

Ok, then what amount of liability do you think would be sufficient to cause airlines to change their policies regarding serving alcohol to already-intoxicated passengers and responding appropriately to a situation where one passenger drunkenly assaults another? I don’t think the victims suffered $2 million in harm, but Delta is a huge corporation and anything less is just a quick write off without any incentive to behave differently in the future.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I'm sure everyone on here saying it's just ok to paw this girl would be just fine with some random drunk middle aged guy grabbing their underage daughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not saying what happened was ok but it sounds like there was verbal harassment and some inappropriate touching. Not ok but for the love of God can we stop calling everything “assault” now? It’s out of control.

Also step one for mom should have been to sit between drunk perv and her teenage daughter. It’s shocking that she apparently didn’t do that.

Assault is the reasonable fear of imminent harm. A man touching a girl’s bra strap under her shirt, saying scary things, and touching a woman’s thigh all constitute assault.

Getting pawed by a drunk guy is obnoxious and, for this girl, panic-inducing. But not $2m worth. Or worth firing the flight attendants.

Your opinion is an outlier.

[Anonymous]

I would have bitten his fingers off he did that to my daughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I'm sure everyone on here saying it's just ok to paw this girl would be just fine with some random drunk middle aged guy grabbing their underage daughter.

Yup. Hypocrites or perverts.