prepping for cogat test .. is it cheating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless someone grew up with no moral compass whatsoever, people know what cheating is and they know when they are engaged in activities which are not strictly ethical.

Is that he best argument the prepping-is-cheating folks have: you know it when you see it?! If you're going to call us cheaters, at least provide an argument.

Our students study for curricular tests in math, science, English, history, etc.We rehearse before delivering a speech. Athletes warm up before a game, practice extensively, and receive coaching. Similar for musicians. Are those sorts of prepping also forms of cheating?

As others have noted, FCPS teachers themselves help students to prep for these tests. Why i that particular amount of prep OK but any additional prep a form of cheating? And what doesn't FCP mention this prepping-is-cheating policy on their webpage?
https://www.fcps.edu/node/39761

It’s always interesting to see the lengths people will go to to justify cheating. Do you also think it’s okay to cheat on your taxes? Because probably lots of other people are doing it, too, right?

I hope at some point in your life, you figure out how to know dishonesty when you see it, without needing someone to provide you with an argument. Adults should be able to figure out right from wrong: that’s part of being an adult.

You’re being overtly dramatic. Don’t prep if you don’t want to, let others choose for themselves. Yes, prepping for Cogat results in marginal gains, maybe around 10 points, but that really depends on the materials used. If you’re desperate for that edge, prep as much as you’d like. Part of being an adult is to worry less about what others are doing and focus on what you have control over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't hate the players, hate the game.

But that would mean her child is not “gifted”. What a tragedy! Instead her child is gifted, and the others are cheating.

AAP is not a gifted program.
When a child actively prepares for tests, including COGAT, NNAT, SOL, etc. it demonstrates their appreciation for and interest in learning. In this regard, they are likely to adapt well to the AAP program. While it is not a very good program for truly gifted children, it does provide an excellent opportunity for students who are motivated to delve deeper into their studies compared to their peers in general education.

The commonwealth of Virginia requires a gifted program for schools. AAP is the gifted program for FCPS. And it's a good program for my "actually" gifted kid as well as my "only 120s IQ" kid.

Ymnv

AAP is NOT a gifted program, but fcps fulfills the gifted mandate through the aap program.

Truly gifted children aren’t being served.

The implication is of course that your child is one of “those” gifted kids that should be served by the public school system, but are not, because all the undeserving kids that make it through.

Are you proposing something here? That those kids should be kicked out and maybe restrict the program to top 0.1%? Top 0.01%? At that point it’s only your kid qualified for the program. Maybe you should homeschool.

I’m not implying anything, just stating a fact. But it’s clear that you have no clue what gifted kids are.

You should maybe get lost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't hate the players, hate the game.

But that would mean her child is not “gifted”. What a tragedy! Instead her child is gifted, and the others are cheating.

AAP is not a gifted program.
When a child actively prepares for tests, including COGAT, NNAT, SOL, etc. it demonstrates their appreciation for and interest in learning. In this regard, they are likely to adapt well to the AAP program. While it is not a very good program for truly gifted children, it does provide an excellent opportunity for students who are motivated to delve deeper into their studies compared to their peers in general education.

Don’t you mean when a parent actively makes their child prep for tests because I don’t know of any first or second grader that is coming home and saying “Mom, I want to prep for the NNAT or the CoGAT, can we find a class or a workbook!” I can see high school students asking to prep for the SAT because they see it as important but not early ES.

I can see ES kids asking to read or play math games or some math or watch science videos or do a science kit but all of those are different then wanting to prep for a test.

So no, I don’t see prep as a sign of a child’s interest in learning. It demonstrates parents that want their child to have access to a different educational opportunity. And the tests do not show that a child will adapt well to AAP. The GBRS are probably a better indicator of how a child will adapt because those get at how willing a child is to delve into subjects and how curious a child is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't hate the players, hate the game.

But that would mean her child is not “gifted”. What a tragedy! Instead her child is gifted, and the others are cheating.

AAP is not a gifted program.
When a child actively prepares for tests, including COGAT, NNAT, SOL, etc. it demonstrates their appreciation for and interest in learning. In this regard, they are likely to adapt well to the AAP program. While it is not a very good program for truly gifted children, it does provide an excellent opportunity for students who are motivated to delve deeper into their studies compared to their peers in general education.

The commonwealth of Virginia requires a gifted program for schools. AAP is the gifted program for FCPS. And it's a good program for my "actually" gifted kid as well as my "only 120s IQ" kid.

Ymnv

AAP is NOT a gifted program, but fcps fulfills the gifted mandate through the aap program.

Truly gifted children aren’t being served.

Fwiw, the design of the center school system is to both provide a curriculum (the implementation varies by school and teacher) and to provide a cohort of a large number of gifted kids as well as some bright kids (which also varies by school and class). The cohort is the most valuable and beneficial part of the program for "truly gifted kids".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless someone grew up with no moral compass whatsoever, people know what cheating is and they know when they are engaged in activities which are not strictly ethical.

Is that he best argument the prepping-is-cheating folks have: you know it when you see it?! If you're going to call us cheaters, at least provide an argument.

Our students study for curricular tests in math, science, English, history, etc.We rehearse before delivering a speech. Athletes warm up before a game, practice extensively, and receive coaching. Similar for musicians. Are those sorts of prepping also forms of cheating?

As others have noted, FCPS teachers themselves help students to prep for these tests. Why i that particular amount of prep OK but any additional prep a form of cheating? And what doesn't FCP mention this prepping-is-cheating policy on their webpage?
https://www.fcps.edu/node/39761

It’s always interesting to see the lengths people will go to to justify cheating. Do you also think it’s okay to cheat on your taxes? Because probably lots of other people are doing it, too, right?

I hope at some point in your life, you figure out how to know dishonesty when you see it, without needing someone to provide you with an argument. Adults should be able to figure out right from wrong: that’s part of being an adult.

You’re being overtly dramatic. Don’t prep if you don’t want to, let others choose for themselves. Yes, prepping for Cogat results in marginal gains, maybe around 10 points, but that really depends on the materials used. If you’re desperate for that edge, prep as much as you’d like. Part of being an adult is to worry less about what others are doing and focus on what you have control over.

It's also funny to see the lengths people will go to convince others not to prep. You know they're prepping and just trying to get others not to do it to improve their kid's chances.

[Anonymous]

I would be remiss as a parent if I sent my kid into a test without preparing them to do their best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless someone grew up with no moral compass whatsoever, people know what cheating is and they know when they are engaged in activities which are not strictly ethical.

Is that he best argument the prepping-is-cheating folks have: you know it when you see it?! If you're going to call us cheaters, at least provide an argument.

Our students study for curricular tests in math, science, English, history, etc.We rehearse before delivering a speech. Athletes warm up before a game, practice extensively, and receive coaching. Similar for musicians. Are those sorts of prepping also forms of cheating?

As others have noted, FCPS teachers themselves help students to prep for these tests. Why i that particular amount of prep OK but any additional prep a form of cheating? And what doesn't FCP mention this prepping-is-cheating policy on their webpage?
https://www.fcps.edu/node/39761

It’s always interesting to see the lengths people will go to to justify cheating. Do you also think it’s okay to cheat on your taxes? Because probably lots of other people are doing it, too, right?

I hope at some point in your life, you figure out how to know dishonesty when you see it, without needing someone to provide you with an argument. Adults should be able to figure out right from wrong: that’s part of being an adult.

You’re being overtly dramatic. Don’t prep if you don’t want to, let others choose for themselves. Yes, prepping for Cogat results in marginal gains, maybe around 10 points, but that really depends on the materials used. If you’re desperate for that edge, prep as much as you’d like. Part of being an adult is to worry less about what others are doing and focus on what you have control over.

It's also funny to see the lengths people will go to convince others not to prep. You know they're prepping and just trying to get others not to do it to improve their kid's chances.

It's a huge amount of pressure. On 2nd grade, maybe it's hard for parents to see that. Or else they think that their DC is immune. Somehow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would be remiss as a parent if I sent my kid into a test without preparing them to do their best.

The prep for the NNAT, the Cogat, and other tests is a good night's sleep and a good breakfast.

You would be remiss as a parent to not give your DC that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't hate the players, hate the game.

But that would mean her child is not “gifted”. What a tragedy! Instead her child is gifted, and the others are cheating.

AAP is not a gifted program.
When a child actively prepares for tests, including COGAT, NNAT, SOL, etc. it demonstrates their appreciation for and interest in learning. In this regard, they are likely to adapt well to the AAP program. While it is not a very good program for truly gifted children, it does provide an excellent opportunity for students who are motivated to delve deeper into their studies compared to their peers in general education.

The commonwealth of Virginia requires a gifted program for schools. AAP is the gifted program for FCPS. And it's a good program for my "actually" gifted kid as well as my "only 120s IQ" kid.

Ymnv

AAP is NOT a gifted program, but fcps fulfills the gifted mandate through the aap program.

Truly gifted children aren’t being served.

The implication is of course that your child is one of “those” gifted kids that should be served by the public school system, but are not, because all the undeserving kids that make it through.

Are you proposing something here? That those kids should be kicked out and maybe restrict the program to top 0.1%? Top 0.01%? At that point it’s only your kid qualified for the program. Maybe you should homeschool.

I’m not implying anything, just stating a fact. But it’s clear that you have no clue what gifted kids are.

You should maybe get lost.

Then please enlighten us, what are gifted kids?

[Anonymous]

Taking the same IQ test like WiSC on repeated occasions does result in an increased score of about 10-12 points and while it doesn’t invalidate the result, it should be taken into account when analyzing the results. Cogat is not an IQ test, but measures acquired ability to learn so one can argue that prepping is actually developing these abilities. Also for Cogat there is a recommendation to wait 3-6 months before retesting, but this only refers to taking the same test not about using prep materials.

The claim that prepping is cheating is an extreme interpretation though. For this to be the case there would need to be clear guidance from the test maker stating such. Of course they won’t make any assessments on third party educational products.

In reality people know what kind of scores gets their child in, and if they really want the seat badly they’ll prep to increase their chances. One can argue that among two kids with the same score the one who didn’t prep is more deserving, but there’s no way to tell them apart. It only matters for borderline kids, and since the entrance bar is fairly low, truly deserving kids will get in regardless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't hate the players, hate the game.

But that would mean her child is not “gifted”. What a tragedy! Instead her child is gifted, and the others are cheating.

AAP is not a gifted program.
When a child actively prepares for tests, including COGAT, NNAT, SOL, etc. it demonstrates their appreciation for and interest in learning. In this regard, they are likely to adapt well to the AAP program. While it is not a very good program for truly gifted children, it does provide an excellent opportunity for students who are motivated to delve deeper into their studies compared to their peers in general education.

The commonwealth of Virginia requires a gifted program for schools. AAP is the gifted program for FCPS. And it's a good program for my "actually" gifted kid as well as my "only 120s IQ" kid.

Ymnv

AAP is NOT a gifted program, but fcps fulfills the gifted mandate through the aap program.

Truly gifted children aren’t being served.

Fwiw, the design of the center school system is to both provide a curriculum (the implementation varies by school and teacher) and to provide a cohort of a large number of gifted kids as well as some bright kids (which also varies by school and class). The cohort is the most valuable and beneficial part of the program for "truly gifted kids".

That is true, but the highly gifted kids, let’s say 140-145+ are underserved. And that’s what it is. The point is that the way the program is designed as of now, mildly gifted kids belong there. They are there to expand the program.

If aap as it is now disappears, then the highly gifted will have to have an exclusive program to fulfill the mandate. That will sit ill with soooo many people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't hate the players, hate the game.

But that would mean her child is not “gifted”. What a tragedy! Instead her child is gifted, and the others are cheating.

AAP is not a gifted program.
When a child actively prepares for tests, including COGAT, NNAT, SOL, etc. it demonstrates their appreciation for and interest in learning. In this regard, they are likely to adapt well to the AAP program. While it is not a very good program for truly gifted children, it does provide an excellent opportunity for students who are motivated to delve deeper into their studies compared to their peers in general education.

The commonwealth of Virginia requires a gifted program for schools. AAP is the gifted program for FCPS. And it's a good program for my "actually" gifted kid as well as my "only 120s IQ" kid.

Ymnv

AAP is NOT a gifted program, but fcps fulfills the gifted mandate through the aap program.

Truly gifted children aren’t being served.

Fwiw, the design of the center school system is to both provide a curriculum (the implementation varies by school and teacher) and to provide a cohort of a large number of gifted kids as well as some bright kids (which also varies by school and class). The cohort is the most valuable and beneficial part of the program for "truly gifted kids".

That is true, but the highly gifted kids, let’s say 140-145+ are underserved. And that’s what it is. The point is that the way the program is designed as of now, mildly gifted kids belong there. They are there to expand the program.

If aap as it is now disappears, then the highly gifted will have to have an exclusive program to fulfill the mandate. That will sit ill with soooo many people.

I can only speak for N=1 but for my kid who had a WISC in 5th grade with 145+, AAP served him well. He learned a lot about thinking critically, etc. that was the focus of upper level elementary. The cohort was also important for him, starting from 3rd grade and through elementary school (and middle school).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't hate the players, hate the game.

But that would mean her child is not “gifted”. What a tragedy! Instead her child is gifted, and the others are cheating.

AAP is not a gifted program.
When a child actively prepares for tests, including COGAT, NNAT, SOL, etc. it demonstrates their appreciation for and interest in learning. In this regard, they are likely to adapt well to the AAP program. While it is not a very good program for truly gifted children, it does provide an excellent opportunity for students who are motivated to delve deeper into their studies compared to their peers in general education.

The commonwealth of Virginia requires a gifted program for schools. AAP is the gifted program for FCPS. And it's a good program for my "actually" gifted kid as well as my "only 120s IQ" kid.

Ymnv

AAP is NOT a gifted program, but fcps fulfills the gifted mandate through the aap program.

Truly gifted children aren’t being served.

Fwiw, the design of the center school system is to both provide a curriculum (the implementation varies by school and teacher) and to provide a cohort of a large number of gifted kids as well as some bright kids (which also varies by school and class). The cohort is the most valuable and beneficial part of the program for "truly gifted kids".

That is true, but the highly gifted kids, let’s say 140-145+ are underserved. And that’s what it is. The point is that the way the program is designed as of now, mildly gifted kids belong there. They are there to expand the program.

If aap as it is now disappears, then the highly gifted will have to have an exclusive program to fulfill the mandate. That will sit ill with soooo many people.

What would the AAP as is now be replaced with? A program for 145+ kids, would have about 15 kids per grade over the entire district. It would make absolutely no sense for many reasons: commuting 30+ miles for elementary students, funding, etc. why would the public school system set up an alternate school for a very tiny sliver of students? By lowering the bar, more students get in and there’s more public support for the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't hate the players, hate the game.

But that would mean her child is not “gifted”. What a tragedy! Instead her child is gifted, and the others are cheating.

AAP is not a gifted program.
When a child actively prepares for tests, including COGAT, NNAT, SOL, etc. it demonstrates their appreciation for and interest in learning. In this regard, they are likely to adapt well to the AAP program. While it is not a very good program for truly gifted children, it does provide an excellent opportunity for students who are motivated to delve deeper into their studies compared to their peers in general education.

The commonwealth of Virginia requires a gifted program for schools. AAP is the gifted program for FCPS. And it's a good program for my "actually" gifted kid as well as my "only 120s IQ" kid.

Ymnv

AAP is NOT a gifted program, but fcps fulfills the gifted mandate through the aap program.

Truly gifted children aren’t being served.

Fwiw, the design of the center school system is to both provide a curriculum (the implementation varies by school and teacher) and to provide a cohort of a large number of gifted kids as well as some bright kids (which also varies by school and class). The cohort is the most valuable and beneficial part of the program for "truly gifted kids".

That is true, but the highly gifted kids, let’s say 140-145+ are underserved. And that’s what it is. The point is that the way the program is designed as of now, mildly gifted kids belong there. They are there to expand the program.

If aap as it is now disappears, then the highly gifted will have to have an exclusive program to fulfill the mandate. That will sit ill with soooo many people.

I can only speak for N=1 but for my kid who had a WISC in 5th grade with 145+, AAP served him well. He learned a lot about thinking critically, etc. that was the focus of upper level elementary. The cohort was also important for him, starting from 3rd grade and through elementary school (and middle school).

^^^ Adding, I'm sorry that your DC is underserved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't hate the players, hate the game.

But that would mean her child is not “gifted”. What a tragedy! Instead her child is gifted, and the others are cheating.

AAP is not a gifted program.
When a child actively prepares for tests, including COGAT, NNAT, SOL, etc. it demonstrates their appreciation for and interest in learning. In this regard, they are likely to adapt well to the AAP program. While it is not a very good program for truly gifted children, it does provide an excellent opportunity for students who are motivated to delve deeper into their studies compared to their peers in general education.

The commonwealth of Virginia requires a gifted program for schools. AAP is the gifted program for FCPS. And it's a good program for my "actually" gifted kid as well as my "only 120s IQ" kid.

Ymnv

AAP is NOT a gifted program, but fcps fulfills the gifted mandate through the aap program.

Truly gifted children aren’t being served.

Fwiw, the design of the center school system is to both provide a curriculum (the implementation varies by school and teacher) and to provide a cohort of a large number of gifted kids as well as some bright kids (which also varies by school and class). The cohort is the most valuable and beneficial part of the program for "truly gifted kids".

That is true, but the highly gifted kids, let’s say 140-145+ are underserved. And that’s what it is. The point is that the way the program is designed as of now, mildly gifted kids belong there. They are there to expand the program.

If aap as it is now disappears, then the highly gifted will have to have an exclusive program to fulfill the mandate. That will sit ill with soooo many people.

What would the AAP as is now be replaced with? A program for 145+ kids, would have about 15 kids per grade over the entire district. It would make absolutely no sense for many reasons: commuting 30+ miles for elementary students, funding, etc. why would the public school system set up an alternate school for a very tiny sliver of students? By lowering the bar, more students get in and there’s more public support for the program.

It would make sense for those profoundly gifted kids. I don’t think there are as few as 15 per grade, but if that number is correct it shows how underserved those kids really are.

But the current approach to aap is that more kids can benefit, and that’s fine. We are sacrificing a very important segment of kids. Often their parents fill the gap, but not for most of those kids, and that’s sad for so many.

There are real and hard consequences for the profoundly gifted. And it’s surprising that we don’t foster and support them adequately, because they’re the ones that will make inventions, find cures, etc.