Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.
From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)
Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.
But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.
Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.
It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.
What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.
Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.
The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.
Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class
No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.
Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.
This just means that you have an inflexible principal, or it means that your child is not the outlier that you perceive him to be. It doesn't mean that opportunities are lacking in Title I schools writ large. My kid tested off the charts at a Title I school. The school math resource teacher met one on one with my child to assess his math level and the proper placement. He ultimately ended up skipping 2/3 grade levels of math, taking IAAT and 7th grade SOL when in 4th grade and Algebra in 5th. Title I schools might not have sufficient cohort to offer Pre-Algebra in general to 5th graders. They absolutely can and will allow an individual child to join a higher grade level for math class when the child is otherwise an outlier.
You are in VA so it's a bit different can MCPS. 250 isn't abnormal in MCPS for MAP in 3rd but it's the 5th grade that counts. Only one school offers aim and it really doesn't matter. Supplement at home. About 1/3 the middle schools allow Algebra in 6th but only a select few are allowed or choose to do it. Otherwise smart kids take Algebra in 7th. Not a big deal either way. I would not have wanted my child to take AIM in 5th. Starting Algebra with out AIM was fine but child did do a summer prep class to make sure they could handle it.
The thing that gets me about all this is how parents use the acceleration that is only available at a handful of wealthy schools as a golden ticket to unlock programs like TJ and later complain how it's gone downhill when fewer privileged students are now admitted because the county adopts a more equitable admissions policy.
Yeah this is incorrect. Acceleration for 7th grade algebra is available at all middle schools and gifted children can be identified for AAP at all elementary schools. 6th grade algebra is rare in FCPS for everyone but it happens and would probably shake out wearier for a kid destined for AAP. A kid isn’t showing up at a title I school in FCPS in 5th grade all the sudden ready for algebra the next year and no one has noticed. You don’t gotta lie to kick it.
They are rambling about MCPS where there may be one school that offers AIM. AIM meaning pre-algbra in 5th. Most kids take Algebra in 7/8, some 9th. Some MS offer Algebra in 6th but its maybe under 25 students per school, if offered. They are mixed in with the 7/8 graders. Pre-Algebra for 5th is a bit absurd except for a genius level student.
Yes, 1-2 of the wealthiest schools in the county provide algebra in 6th, but the majority do not.
Yes, because there’s a cohort of students and qualified teachers that make offering algebra 1 in 6 feasible. At your average title 1 school there are many other things the administration has to deal with: teacher retention, chronic absenteeism, addressing the large chunk of students that are way below grade level. Let’s assume your child is the gifted genius you claim him to be. Maybe they see a child like that once a decade. You show up at their office door and demand your kid is placed in algebra because you’ve heard that at Frost kids with at least 250 on MAP get this treatment. You go on a rambling about fairness, MLK, opportunity hoarding and how your kids chances at TJ are compromised because they don’t put him in Algebra. I’m not surprised with the outcome you got. This being said there are opportunities you can pursue, but you’re too busy being a victim and going on your tiny little fairness crusade. Good luck, I hope you succeed!
250 is a pretty normal MAP score in MCPS.
For the billionth time, the test is not the same.
You are an idiot and don’t understand what you are talking about. The 3-5 test IS the same test but it adapts to ability, regardless of grade or age. Which means it’s comparable.
Computer adaptive means that the sequence of questions is dependent on how each question is answered, but the questions are chosen from the bank of the test. For MAP there are two versions of the test MAP 2-5, and MAP 6+ that have a different set of bank questions. Both have the same scale of scores, and the scores are somewhat equivalent, but the equivalency is not that accurate at the ends of the scale. A 250 on the MAP 2-5 would mostly test lower grade arithmetic content, while a 250 on the MAP 6+ tests well into algebra content. That’s why sometimes you see a dip in scores from 5th to 6th grade tests especially at the high end. Even within these two version there are subversions adjusted to state standards etc., you can also specify instructional area by grades, so it’s possible that each district chooses a version of the test that best fits their needs.
When a student takes the test, there’s a detailed report called Learning Continuum (it’s 30+ pages long), that breaks down the concepts the student understands at 75%, 50%, and 25% mastery. This report is more informative for student placement, because it is broken down in items like ‘inverse of a quadratic function (251-260)’.
I’d suggest that when you share your boundless knowledge on how MAP testing works, you post a link so we can evaluate independently your claims. It’s amazing how complete ignoramuses consider themselves experts just because they got a map test results letter in their mailbox.
Nothing you have said contradicts anything I’ve said. What is wrong is to say that the third grade test is not comparable with the 5th grade test. It is. No master how many times you claim otherwise, if a 3rd grade child has the same knowledge and abilities (and test taking aptitude) as a 5th grade child they will score the same.
You’re playing stupid on purpose or you’re just plain stupid. On this thread we’re are discussing MAP testing in the context of Algebra 1 placement for 6th grade. Some moron comparing himself to Martin Luther King, quoted his child’s MAP score in 3rd grade as evidence the child should be allowed to take that class. The nuanced answer is that for placement purposes it really depends what content was tested, and it’s perfectly possible the school was correct in denying Algebra 1 in 6th for that student because it was not appropriate. Then said moron cries unfairness all over this board and claims he’s fighting for fairness.
I suggest that you go back and reread the thread and then come back and apologize. Kids don’t take the sixth grade test until, duh, they are in 6th grade. Class placement decisions are taken in 5th grade ergo the only MAP test that anyone is looking at for 6th grade placement is the 3-5th test. Some schools (mostly wealthy ones but not the magnet middle schools) will consider placing kids with 250 or higher IN FIFTH GRADE on the 3-5 grade MAP test in 6th grade algebra. Their 6th grade score is irrelevant because that isn’t taken until they are already in 6th. The PP (who didn’t combats themself to MLK, someone else did) was saying that not only did their child exceed that 250 requirement in 5th but they got there in 3rd which IS directly comparable. Got it????
You are correct. The other poster is either horribly confused or trying to mislead others in a misguided attempt to defend privilege.
There is at most ONE school that has enough kids that would qualify. Otherwise all those kids are in compacted math and can take Algebra in 6th. What is the big deal and rush to take AIM in 5th? My kid started Algebra in 6th without AIM and it was fine but also starting Algebra in 7th would have been fine too. There is no such think as equity and nothing is fair in life so get over it. If you want your kid to do pre-algebra, you do it at home. MCPS offers free tutoring now. There is no flat cut off at most schools and they are flexible. These kids are in compacted math which is accelerated.
Why is this such a big deal to you?
The reality is that this is offered at considerably more than one school.
AIM is not offered in most ES, maybe one or two. Come MS, Algebra is offered in 6 in about 1/4-1/3 the schools. MCCPTA put out a list on their facebook group. Most of the kids who start Algebra in 6th are skipping AIM, like mine.
So, why is it really a big deal? It's nice to see schools focusing on kids needs. Even if it was offered to mine, I don't think I would have started AIM in 5th.
Although AIM is only offered in one ES, Algebra is offered to 6th graders at a handful of the wealthier Potomac schools.
Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.
From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)
Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.
But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.
Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.
It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.
What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.
Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.
The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.
Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class
No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.
Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.
Why are you so stuck on the principle not recognizing you child’s greatness from the 3rd grade MAP test taken years ago? You seem to make it your purpose in life to bring up how you were wronged on every DCUM algebra thread. I honestly feel sorry for you, even more so for your child. Quit the victim mentality and move on with your life for the sake of your child.
Not the PP but what's it to you? Why does this seem to bother you so much? Feel guilty for opportunity hoarding?
I genuinely feel bad for her child, and she needs to hear from someone. Victim mentality is a terrible thing to model for a child. Even if the child could have handled it, it’s not the end of the world the school didn’t accommodate Algebra 1 in 6th. Brooding over this perceived missed opportunity for years is just toxic for the child.
I think they're lucky their parent would fight this injustice and stand up to privilege to ensure others have equal opportunity! By your logic, MLK had a victim mentality and you'd shame him for fighting for equal rights.
Burned en good! LOL but hard to sympathize with posters advocating for opportunity awarding and keeping down the poor
It is difficult to comprehend why this mean-spirited poster would criticize a low-income parent at a Title 1 school who is doing their best to support their gifted child. From my perspective, their efforts are truly admirable. The comparison to MLK was accurate, and it is misguided to shame for standing up for equal opportunity and downright fairness!
It is disgusting how they're so desperate to keep others down especially a parent trying to do the best they can for their kids under difficult circumstances.
Who is trying to keep the poor down? You’re so incoherent. Are you proposing something along the lines if a student scores 250 on MAP they are automatically enrolled in Algebra 1? First of all, it depends on the version, according to NWEA, 235 on MAP 6+ indicates Algebra readiness and tests pre-Algebra concepts. Spend some time figuring out what tests your school uses for placement and do your research. If you have a test result in hand you can even call NWEA to give you an explanation of the results. Then the school looks at multiple measures, the student doesn’t just show up in 6th with a map score to sign up for algebra, he needs to show mastery of pre-algebra. Districts have public math placement policies, start there. Individual schools may have some room to implement their own policies depending on teacher qualifications, the demographics of the students they serve etc. Most schools, even Title 1, do have something in place for the gifted students.
If you don’t like the current state of affairs, and how the school is satisfying the needs of your child education, I suggest you petition the district and the school board. It doesn’t really help being hysterical on anonymous forums, does it?
Oh good God, I’m a different poster but your post couldn’t be more patronizing. What you are missing is that in MCPS some schools - like the magnet middle schools - WILL NOT accelerate a student without having taken AIM (pre algebra). We clearly understand MAP better than you do and it doesn’t matter. They WILL NOT allow it. For kids in the magnet program the ethos is that you go deeper rather than speed up the process. No one is taking 6th grade MAP in 5th grade , it simply doesn’t happen so your patronizing lecture is completely unnecessary and off base.
Oh good... you understand that the magnet program is a choice and it's not actually deeper despite you pretending it is. The MAP changes when kids hit Algebra. If you prefer your child to do Algebra in 6th you can always keep them at their home school or lottery into a school that has it. Problem solved. How do you really think they are going deeper? Its all the same - a one year course in AIM.
I’ve had two kids in the magnet. It is certainly deeper than the regular advanced curriculum. Given that I have actual experience with it and you clearly don’t, go ahead and believe what you want.
My 12-year-old in magnet Algebra is studying rings and fields. These topics don't normally come up in MS math so I believe it goes deeper.
And, my 13 year old is in Algebra 2. Why is your super smart, smarter than my 12 year old, only in Algebra?
Nobody said anything about your child, but you may want to seek therapy for your inferiority complex.
Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.
From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)
Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.
But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.
Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.
It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.
What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.
Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.
The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.
Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class
No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.
Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.
This just means that you have an inflexible principal, or it means that your child is not the outlier that you perceive him to be. It doesn't mean that opportunities are lacking in Title I schools writ large. My kid tested off the charts at a Title I school. The school math resource teacher met one on one with my child to assess his math level and the proper placement. He ultimately ended up skipping 2/3 grade levels of math, taking IAAT and 7th grade SOL when in 4th grade and Algebra in 5th. Title I schools might not have sufficient cohort to offer Pre-Algebra in general to 5th graders. They absolutely can and will allow an individual child to join a higher grade level for math class when the child is otherwise an outlier.
You are in VA so it's a bit different can MCPS. 250 isn't abnormal in MCPS for MAP in 3rd but it's the 5th grade that counts. Only one school offers aim and it really doesn't matter. Supplement at home. About 1/3 the middle schools allow Algebra in 6th but only a select few are allowed or choose to do it. Otherwise smart kids take Algebra in 7th. Not a big deal either way. I would not have wanted my child to take AIM in 5th. Starting Algebra with out AIM was fine but child did do a summer prep class to make sure they could handle it.
The thing that gets me about all this is how parents use the acceleration that is only available at a handful of wealthy schools as a golden ticket to unlock programs like TJ and later complain how it's gone downhill when fewer privileged students are now admitted because the county adopts a more equitable admissions policy.
Yeah this is incorrect. Acceleration for 7th grade algebra is available at all middle schools and gifted children can be identified for AAP at all elementary schools. 6th grade algebra is rare in FCPS for everyone but it happens and would probably shake out wearier for a kid destined for AAP. A kid isn’t showing up at a title I school in FCPS in 5th grade all the sudden ready for algebra the next year and no one has noticed. You don’t gotta lie to kick it.
They are rambling about MCPS where there may be one school that offers AIM. AIM meaning pre-algbra in 5th. Most kids take Algebra in 7/8, some 9th. Some MS offer Algebra in 6th but its maybe under 25 students per school, if offered. They are mixed in with the 7/8 graders. Pre-Algebra for 5th is a bit absurd except for a genius level student.
Yes, 1-2 of the wealthiest schools in the county provide algebra in 6th, but the majority do not.
Yes, because there’s a cohort of students and qualified teachers that make offering algebra 1 in 6 feasible. At your average title 1 school there are many other things the administration has to deal with: teacher retention, chronic absenteeism, addressing the large chunk of students that are way below grade level. Let’s assume your child is the gifted genius you claim him to be. Maybe they see a child like that once a decade. You show up at their office door and demand your kid is placed in algebra because you’ve heard that at Frost kids with at least 250 on MAP get this treatment. You go on a rambling about fairness, MLK, opportunity hoarding and how your kids chances at TJ are compromised because they don’t put him in Algebra. I’m not surprised with the outcome you got. This being said there are opportunities you can pursue, but you’re too busy being a victim and going on your tiny little fairness crusade. Good luck, I hope you succeed!
250 is a pretty normal MAP score in MCPS.
For the billionth time, the test is not the same.
You are an idiot and don’t understand what you are talking about. The 3-5 test IS the same test but it adapts to ability, regardless of grade or age. Which means it’s comparable.
Computer adaptive means that the sequence of questions is dependent on how each question is answered, but the questions are chosen from the bank of the test. For MAP there are two versions of the test MAP 2-5, and MAP 6+ that have a different set of bank questions. Both have the same scale of scores, and the scores are somewhat equivalent, but the equivalency is not that accurate at the ends of the scale. A 250 on the MAP 2-5 would mostly test lower grade arithmetic content, while a 250 on the MAP 6+ tests well into algebra content. That’s why sometimes you see a dip in scores from 5th to 6th grade tests especially at the high end. Even within these two version there are subversions adjusted to state standards etc., you can also specify instructional area by grades, so it’s possible that each district chooses a version of the test that best fits their needs.
When a student takes the test, there’s a detailed report called Learning Continuum (it’s 30+ pages long), that breaks down the concepts the student understands at 75%, 50%, and 25% mastery. This report is more informative for student placement, because it is broken down in items like ‘inverse of a quadratic function (251-260)’.
I’d suggest that when you share your boundless knowledge on how MAP testing works, you post a link so we can evaluate independently your claims. It’s amazing how complete ignoramuses consider themselves experts just because they got a map test results letter in their mailbox.
Nothing you have said contradicts anything I’ve said. What is wrong is to say that the third grade test is not comparable with the 5th grade test. It is. No master how many times you claim otherwise, if a 3rd grade child has the same knowledge and abilities (and test taking aptitude) as a 5th grade child they will score the same.
You’re playing stupid on purpose or you’re just plain stupid. On this thread we’re are discussing MAP testing in the context of Algebra 1 placement for 6th grade. Some moron comparing himself to Martin Luther King, quoted his child’s MAP score in 3rd grade as evidence the child should be allowed to take that class. The nuanced answer is that for placement purposes it really depends what content was tested, and it’s perfectly possible the school was correct in denying Algebra 1 in 6th for that student because it was not appropriate. Then said moron cries unfairness all over this board and claims he’s fighting for fairness.
I suggest that you go back and reread the thread and then come back and apologize. Kids don’t take the sixth grade test until, duh, they are in 6th grade. Class placement decisions are taken in 5th grade ergo the only MAP test that anyone is looking at for 6th grade placement is the 3-5th test. Some schools (mostly wealthy ones but not the magnet middle schools) will consider placing kids with 250 or higher IN FIFTH GRADE on the 3-5 grade MAP test in 6th grade algebra. Their 6th grade score is irrelevant because that isn’t taken until they are already in 6th. The PP (who didn’t combats themself to MLK, someone else did) was saying that not only did their child exceed that 250 requirement in 5th but they got there in 3rd which IS directly comparable. Got it????
You are correct. The other poster is either horribly confused or trying to mislead others in a misguided attempt to defend privilege.
There is at most ONE school that has enough kids that would qualify. Otherwise all those kids are in compacted math and can take Algebra in 6th. What is the big deal and rush to take AIM in 5th? My kid started Algebra in 6th without AIM and it was fine but also starting Algebra in 7th would have been fine too. There is no such think as equity and nothing is fair in life so get over it. If you want your kid to do pre-algebra, you do it at home. MCPS offers free tutoring now. There is no flat cut off at most schools and they are flexible. These kids are in compacted math which is accelerated.
Why is this such a big deal to you?
The reality is that this is offered at considerably more than one school.
AIM is not offered in most ES, maybe one or two. Come MS, Algebra is offered in 6 in about 1/4-1/3 the schools. MCCPTA put out a list on their facebook group. Most of the kids who start Algebra in 6th are skipping AIM, like mine.
So, why is it really a big deal? It's nice to see schools focusing on kids needs. Even if it was offered to mine, I don't think I would have started AIM in 5th.
Although AIM is only offered in one ES, Algebra is offered to 6th graders at a handful of the wealthier Potomac schools.
Are you here to find pity and vent or there’s something concrete you are proposing?
Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.
From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)
Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.
But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.
Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.
It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.
What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.
Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.
The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.
Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class
No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.
Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.
This just means that you have an inflexible principal, or it means that your child is not the outlier that you perceive him to be. It doesn't mean that opportunities are lacking in Title I schools writ large. My kid tested off the charts at a Title I school. The school math resource teacher met one on one with my child to assess his math level and the proper placement. He ultimately ended up skipping 2/3 grade levels of math, taking IAAT and 7th grade SOL when in 4th grade and Algebra in 5th. Title I schools might not have sufficient cohort to offer Pre-Algebra in general to 5th graders. They absolutely can and will allow an individual child to join a higher grade level for math class when the child is otherwise an outlier.
You are in VA so it's a bit different can MCPS. 250 isn't abnormal in MCPS for MAP in 3rd but it's the 5th grade that counts. Only one school offers aim and it really doesn't matter. Supplement at home. About 1/3 the middle schools allow Algebra in 6th but only a select few are allowed or choose to do it. Otherwise smart kids take Algebra in 7th. Not a big deal either way. I would not have wanted my child to take AIM in 5th. Starting Algebra with out AIM was fine but child did do a summer prep class to make sure they could handle it.
The thing that gets me about all this is how parents use the acceleration that is only available at a handful of wealthy schools as a golden ticket to unlock programs like TJ and later complain how it's gone downhill when fewer privileged students are now admitted because the county adopts a more equitable admissions policy.
Yeah this is incorrect. Acceleration for 7th grade algebra is available at all middle schools and gifted children can be identified for AAP at all elementary schools. 6th grade algebra is rare in FCPS for everyone but it happens and would probably shake out wearier for a kid destined for AAP. A kid isn’t showing up at a title I school in FCPS in 5th grade all the sudden ready for algebra the next year and no one has noticed. You don’t gotta lie to kick it.
They are rambling about MCPS where there may be one school that offers AIM. AIM meaning pre-algbra in 5th. Most kids take Algebra in 7/8, some 9th. Some MS offer Algebra in 6th but its maybe under 25 students per school, if offered. They are mixed in with the 7/8 graders. Pre-Algebra for 5th is a bit absurd except for a genius level student.
Yes, 1-2 of the wealthiest schools in the county provide algebra in 6th, but the majority do not.
Yes, because there’s a cohort of students and qualified teachers that make offering algebra 1 in 6 feasible. At your average title 1 school there are many other things the administration has to deal with: teacher retention, chronic absenteeism, addressing the large chunk of students that are way below grade level. Let’s assume your child is the gifted genius you claim him to be. Maybe they see a child like that once a decade. You show up at their office door and demand your kid is placed in algebra because you’ve heard that at Frost kids with at least 250 on MAP get this treatment. You go on a rambling about fairness, MLK, opportunity hoarding and how your kids chances at TJ are compromised because they don’t put him in Algebra. I’m not surprised with the outcome you got. This being said there are opportunities you can pursue, but you’re too busy being a victim and going on your tiny little fairness crusade. Good luck, I hope you succeed!
250 is a pretty normal MAP score in MCPS.
For the billionth time, the test is not the same.
You are an idiot and don’t understand what you are talking about. The 3-5 test IS the same test but it adapts to ability, regardless of grade or age. Which means it’s comparable.
Computer adaptive means that the sequence of questions is dependent on how each question is answered, but the questions are chosen from the bank of the test. For MAP there are two versions of the test MAP 2-5, and MAP 6+ that have a different set of bank questions. Both have the same scale of scores, and the scores are somewhat equivalent, but the equivalency is not that accurate at the ends of the scale. A 250 on the MAP 2-5 would mostly test lower grade arithmetic content, while a 250 on the MAP 6+ tests well into algebra content. That’s why sometimes you see a dip in scores from 5th to 6th grade tests especially at the high end. Even within these two version there are subversions adjusted to state standards etc., you can also specify instructional area by grades, so it’s possible that each district chooses a version of the test that best fits their needs.
When a student takes the test, there’s a detailed report called Learning Continuum (it’s 30+ pages long), that breaks down the concepts the student understands at 75%, 50%, and 25% mastery. This report is more informative for student placement, because it is broken down in items like ‘inverse of a quadratic function (251-260)’.
I’d suggest that when you share your boundless knowledge on how MAP testing works, you post a link so we can evaluate independently your claims. It’s amazing how complete ignoramuses consider themselves experts just because they got a map test results letter in their mailbox.
Nothing you have said contradicts anything I’ve said. What is wrong is to say that the third grade test is not comparable with the 5th grade test. It is. No master how many times you claim otherwise, if a 3rd grade child has the same knowledge and abilities (and test taking aptitude) as a 5th grade child they will score the same.
You’re playing stupid on purpose or you’re just plain stupid. On this thread we’re are discussing MAP testing in the context of Algebra 1 placement for 6th grade. Some moron comparing himself to Martin Luther King, quoted his child’s MAP score in 3rd grade as evidence the child should be allowed to take that class. The nuanced answer is that for placement purposes it really depends what content was tested, and it’s perfectly possible the school was correct in denying Algebra 1 in 6th for that student because it was not appropriate. Then said moron cries unfairness all over this board and claims he’s fighting for fairness.
I suggest that you go back and reread the thread and then come back and apologize. Kids don’t take the sixth grade test until, duh, they are in 6th grade. Class placement decisions are taken in 5th grade ergo the only MAP test that anyone is looking at for 6th grade placement is the 3-5th test. Some schools (mostly wealthy ones but not the magnet middle schools) will consider placing kids with 250 or higher IN FIFTH GRADE on the 3-5 grade MAP test in 6th grade algebra. Their 6th grade score is irrelevant because that isn’t taken until they are already in 6th. The PP (who didn’t combats themself to MLK, someone else did) was saying that not only did their child exceed that 250 requirement in 5th but they got there in 3rd which IS directly comparable. Got it????
You are correct. The other poster is either horribly confused or trying to mislead others in a misguided attempt to defend privilege.
There is at most ONE school that has enough kids that would qualify. Otherwise all those kids are in compacted math and can take Algebra in 6th. What is the big deal and rush to take AIM in 5th? My kid started Algebra in 6th without AIM and it was fine but also starting Algebra in 7th would have been fine too. There is no such think as equity and nothing is fair in life so get over it. If you want your kid to do pre-algebra, you do it at home. MCPS offers free tutoring now. There is no flat cut off at most schools and they are flexible. These kids are in compacted math which is accelerated.
Why is this such a big deal to you?
The reality is that this is offered at considerably more than one school.
AIM is not offered in most ES, maybe one or two. Come MS, Algebra is offered in 6 in about 1/4-1/3 the schools. MCCPTA put out a list on their facebook group. Most of the kids who start Algebra in 6th are skipping AIM, like mine.
So, why is it really a big deal? It's nice to see schools focusing on kids needs. Even if it was offered to mine, I don't think I would have started AIM in 5th.
Although AIM is only offered in one ES, Algebra is offered to 6th graders at a handful of the wealthier Potomac schools.
Are you here to find pity and vent or there’s something concrete you are proposing?
No idea, I think they were correcting the PP who misrepresented the facts. Everyone knows there's only one ES that offers AIM but there are a handful of wealthy schools that offer algebra in 6th.
Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.
From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)
Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.
But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.
Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.
It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.
What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.
Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.
The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.
Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class
No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.
Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.
This just means that you have an inflexible principal, or it means that your child is not the outlier that you perceive him to be. It doesn't mean that opportunities are lacking in Title I schools writ large. My kid tested off the charts at a Title I school. The school math resource teacher met one on one with my child to assess his math level and the proper placement. He ultimately ended up skipping 2/3 grade levels of math, taking IAAT and 7th grade SOL when in 4th grade and Algebra in 5th. Title I schools might not have sufficient cohort to offer Pre-Algebra in general to 5th graders. They absolutely can and will allow an individual child to join a higher grade level for math class when the child is otherwise an outlier.
You are in VA so it's a bit different can MCPS. 250 isn't abnormal in MCPS for MAP in 3rd but it's the 5th grade that counts. Only one school offers aim and it really doesn't matter. Supplement at home. About 1/3 the middle schools allow Algebra in 6th but only a select few are allowed or choose to do it. Otherwise smart kids take Algebra in 7th. Not a big deal either way. I would not have wanted my child to take AIM in 5th. Starting Algebra with out AIM was fine but child did do a summer prep class to make sure they could handle it.
The thing that gets me about all this is how parents use the acceleration that is only available at a handful of wealthy schools as a golden ticket to unlock programs like TJ and later complain how it's gone downhill when fewer privileged students are now admitted because the county adopts a more equitable admissions policy.
Yeah this is incorrect. Acceleration for 7th grade algebra is available at all middle schools and gifted children can be identified for AAP at all elementary schools. 6th grade algebra is rare in FCPS for everyone but it happens and would probably shake out wearier for a kid destined for AAP. A kid isn’t showing up at a title I school in FCPS in 5th grade all the sudden ready for algebra the next year and no one has noticed. You don’t gotta lie to kick it.
They are rambling about MCPS where there may be one school that offers AIM. AIM meaning pre-algbra in 5th. Most kids take Algebra in 7/8, some 9th. Some MS offer Algebra in 6th but its maybe under 25 students per school, if offered. They are mixed in with the 7/8 graders. Pre-Algebra for 5th is a bit absurd except for a genius level student.
Yes, 1-2 of the wealthiest schools in the county provide algebra in 6th, but the majority do not.
Yes, because there’s a cohort of students and qualified teachers that make offering algebra 1 in 6 feasible. At your average title 1 school there are many other things the administration has to deal with: teacher retention, chronic absenteeism, addressing the large chunk of students that are way below grade level. Let’s assume your child is the gifted genius you claim him to be. Maybe they see a child like that once a decade. You show up at their office door and demand your kid is placed in algebra because you’ve heard that at Frost kids with at least 250 on MAP get this treatment. You go on a rambling about fairness, MLK, opportunity hoarding and how your kids chances at TJ are compromised because they don’t put him in Algebra. I’m not surprised with the outcome you got. This being said there are opportunities you can pursue, but you’re too busy being a victim and going on your tiny little fairness crusade. Good luck, I hope you succeed!
250 is a pretty normal MAP score in MCPS.
For the billionth time, the test is not the same.
You are an idiot and don’t understand what you are talking about. The 3-5 test IS the same test but it adapts to ability, regardless of grade or age. Which means it’s comparable.
Computer adaptive means that the sequence of questions is dependent on how each question is answered, but the questions are chosen from the bank of the test. For MAP there are two versions of the test MAP 2-5, and MAP 6+ that have a different set of bank questions. Both have the same scale of scores, and the scores are somewhat equivalent, but the equivalency is not that accurate at the ends of the scale. A 250 on the MAP 2-5 would mostly test lower grade arithmetic content, while a 250 on the MAP 6+ tests well into algebra content. That’s why sometimes you see a dip in scores from 5th to 6th grade tests especially at the high end. Even within these two version there are subversions adjusted to state standards etc., you can also specify instructional area by grades, so it’s possible that each district chooses a version of the test that best fits their needs.
When a student takes the test, there’s a detailed report called Learning Continuum (it’s 30+ pages long), that breaks down the concepts the student understands at 75%, 50%, and 25% mastery. This report is more informative for student placement, because it is broken down in items like ‘inverse of a quadratic function (251-260)’.
I’d suggest that when you share your boundless knowledge on how MAP testing works, you post a link so we can evaluate independently your claims. It’s amazing how complete ignoramuses consider themselves experts just because they got a map test results letter in their mailbox.
Nothing you have said contradicts anything I’ve said. What is wrong is to say that the third grade test is not comparable with the 5th grade test. It is. No master how many times you claim otherwise, if a 3rd grade child has the same knowledge and abilities (and test taking aptitude) as a 5th grade child they will score the same.
You’re playing stupid on purpose or you’re just plain stupid. On this thread we’re are discussing MAP testing in the context of Algebra 1 placement for 6th grade. Some moron comparing himself to Martin Luther King, quoted his child’s MAP score in 3rd grade as evidence the child should be allowed to take that class. The nuanced answer is that for placement purposes it really depends what content was tested, and it’s perfectly possible the school was correct in denying Algebra 1 in 6th for that student because it was not appropriate. Then said moron cries unfairness all over this board and claims he’s fighting for fairness.
I suggest that you go back and reread the thread and then come back and apologize. Kids don’t take the sixth grade test until, duh, they are in 6th grade. Class placement decisions are taken in 5th grade ergo the only MAP test that anyone is looking at for 6th grade placement is the 3-5th test. Some schools (mostly wealthy ones but not the magnet middle schools) will consider placing kids with 250 or higher IN FIFTH GRADE on the 3-5 grade MAP test in 6th grade algebra. Their 6th grade score is irrelevant because that isn’t taken until they are already in 6th. The PP (who didn’t combats themself to MLK, someone else did) was saying that not only did their child exceed that 250 requirement in 5th but they got there in 3rd which IS directly comparable. Got it????
You are correct. The other poster is either horribly confused or trying to mislead others in a misguided attempt to defend privilege.
There is at most ONE school that has enough kids that would qualify. Otherwise all those kids are in compacted math and can take Algebra in 6th. What is the big deal and rush to take AIM in 5th? My kid started Algebra in 6th without AIM and it was fine but also starting Algebra in 7th would have been fine too. There is no such think as equity and nothing is fair in life so get over it. If you want your kid to do pre-algebra, you do it at home. MCPS offers free tutoring now. There is no flat cut off at most schools and they are flexible. These kids are in compacted math which is accelerated.
Why is this such a big deal to you?
The reality is that this is offered at considerably more than one school.
AIM is not offered in most ES, maybe one or two. Come MS, Algebra is offered in 6 in about 1/4-1/3 the schools. MCCPTA put out a list on their facebook group. Most of the kids who start Algebra in 6th are skipping AIM, like mine.
So, why is it really a big deal? It's nice to see schools focusing on kids needs. Even if it was offered to mine, I don't think I would have started AIM in 5th.
Although AIM is only offered in one ES, Algebra is offered to 6th graders at a handful of the wealthier Potomac schools.
Are you here to find pity and vent or there’s something concrete you are proposing?
No idea, I think they were correcting the PP who misrepresented the facts. Everyone knows there's only one ES that offers AIM but there are a handful of wealthy schools that offer algebra in 6th.
This is absolutely not true as we are not in a title one school. MCCPTA published a list. There is no secret.
Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.
From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)
Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.
But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.
Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.
It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.
What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.
Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.
The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.
Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class
No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.
Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.
This just means that you have an inflexible principal, or it means that your child is not the outlier that you perceive him to be. It doesn't mean that opportunities are lacking in Title I schools writ large. My kid tested off the charts at a Title I school. The school math resource teacher met one on one with my child to assess his math level and the proper placement. He ultimately ended up skipping 2/3 grade levels of math, taking IAAT and 7th grade SOL when in 4th grade and Algebra in 5th. Title I schools might not have sufficient cohort to offer Pre-Algebra in general to 5th graders. They absolutely can and will allow an individual child to join a higher grade level for math class when the child is otherwise an outlier.
You are in VA so it's a bit different can MCPS. 250 isn't abnormal in MCPS for MAP in 3rd but it's the 5th grade that counts. Only one school offers aim and it really doesn't matter. Supplement at home. About 1/3 the middle schools allow Algebra in 6th but only a select few are allowed or choose to do it. Otherwise smart kids take Algebra in 7th. Not a big deal either way. I would not have wanted my child to take AIM in 5th. Starting Algebra with out AIM was fine but child did do a summer prep class to make sure they could handle it.
The thing that gets me about all this is how parents use the acceleration that is only available at a handful of wealthy schools as a golden ticket to unlock programs like TJ and later complain how it's gone downhill when fewer privileged students are now admitted because the county adopts a more equitable admissions policy.
Yeah this is incorrect. Acceleration for 7th grade algebra is available at all middle schools and gifted children can be identified for AAP at all elementary schools. 6th grade algebra is rare in FCPS for everyone but it happens and would probably shake out wearier for a kid destined for AAP. A kid isn’t showing up at a title I school in FCPS in 5th grade all the sudden ready for algebra the next year and no one has noticed. You don’t gotta lie to kick it.
They are rambling about MCPS where there may be one school that offers AIM. AIM meaning pre-algbra in 5th. Most kids take Algebra in 7/8, some 9th. Some MS offer Algebra in 6th but its maybe under 25 students per school, if offered. They are mixed in with the 7/8 graders. Pre-Algebra for 5th is a bit absurd except for a genius level student.
Yes, 1-2 of the wealthiest schools in the county provide algebra in 6th, but the majority do not.
Yes, because there’s a cohort of students and qualified teachers that make offering algebra 1 in 6 feasible. At your average title 1 school there are many other things the administration has to deal with: teacher retention, chronic absenteeism, addressing the large chunk of students that are way below grade level. Let’s assume your child is the gifted genius you claim him to be. Maybe they see a child like that once a decade. You show up at their office door and demand your kid is placed in algebra because you’ve heard that at Frost kids with at least 250 on MAP get this treatment. You go on a rambling about fairness, MLK, opportunity hoarding and how your kids chances at TJ are compromised because they don’t put him in Algebra. I’m not surprised with the outcome you got. This being said there are opportunities you can pursue, but you’re too busy being a victim and going on your tiny little fairness crusade. Good luck, I hope you succeed!
250 is a pretty normal MAP score in MCPS.
For the billionth time, the test is not the same.
You are an idiot and don’t understand what you are talking about. The 3-5 test IS the same test but it adapts to ability, regardless of grade or age. Which means it’s comparable.
Computer adaptive means that the sequence of questions is dependent on how each question is answered, but the questions are chosen from the bank of the test. For MAP there are two versions of the test MAP 2-5, and MAP 6+ that have a different set of bank questions. Both have the same scale of scores, and the scores are somewhat equivalent, but the equivalency is not that accurate at the ends of the scale. A 250 on the MAP 2-5 would mostly test lower grade arithmetic content, while a 250 on the MAP 6+ tests well into algebra content. That’s why sometimes you see a dip in scores from 5th to 6th grade tests especially at the high end. Even within these two version there are subversions adjusted to state standards etc., you can also specify instructional area by grades, so it’s possible that each district chooses a version of the test that best fits their needs.
When a student takes the test, there’s a detailed report called Learning Continuum (it’s 30+ pages long), that breaks down the concepts the student understands at 75%, 50%, and 25% mastery. This report is more informative for student placement, because it is broken down in items like ‘inverse of a quadratic function (251-260)’.
I’d suggest that when you share your boundless knowledge on how MAP testing works, you post a link so we can evaluate independently your claims. It’s amazing how complete ignoramuses consider themselves experts just because they got a map test results letter in their mailbox.
Nothing you have said contradicts anything I’ve said. What is wrong is to say that the third grade test is not comparable with the 5th grade test. It is. No master how many times you claim otherwise, if a 3rd grade child has the same knowledge and abilities (and test taking aptitude) as a 5th grade child they will score the same.
You’re playing stupid on purpose or you’re just plain stupid. On this thread we’re are discussing MAP testing in the context of Algebra 1 placement for 6th grade. Some moron comparing himself to Martin Luther King, quoted his child’s MAP score in 3rd grade as evidence the child should be allowed to take that class. The nuanced answer is that for placement purposes it really depends what content was tested, and it’s perfectly possible the school was correct in denying Algebra 1 in 6th for that student because it was not appropriate. Then said moron cries unfairness all over this board and claims he’s fighting for fairness.
I suggest that you go back and reread the thread and then come back and apologize. Kids don’t take the sixth grade test until, duh, they are in 6th grade. Class placement decisions are taken in 5th grade ergo the only MAP test that anyone is looking at for 6th grade placement is the 3-5th test. Some schools (mostly wealthy ones but not the magnet middle schools) will consider placing kids with 250 or higher IN FIFTH GRADE on the 3-5 grade MAP test in 6th grade algebra. Their 6th grade score is irrelevant because that isn’t taken until they are already in 6th. The PP (who didn’t combats themself to MLK, someone else did) was saying that not only did their child exceed that 250 requirement in 5th but they got there in 3rd which IS directly comparable. Got it????
You are correct. The other poster is either horribly confused or trying to mislead others in a misguided attempt to defend privilege.
There is at most ONE school that has enough kids that would qualify. Otherwise all those kids are in compacted math and can take Algebra in 6th. What is the big deal and rush to take AIM in 5th? My kid started Algebra in 6th without AIM and it was fine but also starting Algebra in 7th would have been fine too. There is no such think as equity and nothing is fair in life so get over it. If you want your kid to do pre-algebra, you do it at home. MCPS offers free tutoring now. There is no flat cut off at most schools and they are flexible. These kids are in compacted math which is accelerated.
Why is this such a big deal to you?
The reality is that this is offered at considerably more than one school.
AIM is not offered in most ES, maybe one or two. Come MS, Algebra is offered in 6 in about 1/4-1/3 the schools. MCCPTA put out a list on their facebook group. Most of the kids who start Algebra in 6th are skipping AIM, like mine.
So, why is it really a big deal? It's nice to see schools focusing on kids needs. Even if it was offered to mine, I don't think I would have started AIM in 5th.
Although AIM is only offered in one ES, Algebra is offered to 6th graders at a handful of the wealthier Potomac schools.
Are you here to find pity and vent or there’s something concrete you are proposing?
No idea, I think they were correcting the PP who misrepresented the facts. Everyone knows there's only one ES that offers AIM but there are a handful of wealthy schools that offer algebra in 6th.
This is absolutely not true as we are not in a title one school. MCCPTA published a list. There is no secret.
I’ve seen the list too. So “everyone knows it’s only one school” is wrong.
Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.
From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)
Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.
But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.
Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.
It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.
What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.
Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.
The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.
Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class
No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.
Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.
This just means that you have an inflexible principal, or it means that your child is not the outlier that you perceive him to be. It doesn't mean that opportunities are lacking in Title I schools writ large. My kid tested off the charts at a Title I school. The school math resource teacher met one on one with my child to assess his math level and the proper placement. He ultimately ended up skipping 2/3 grade levels of math, taking IAAT and 7th grade SOL when in 4th grade and Algebra in 5th. Title I schools might not have sufficient cohort to offer Pre-Algebra in general to 5th graders. They absolutely can and will allow an individual child to join a higher grade level for math class when the child is otherwise an outlier.
You are in VA so it's a bit different can MCPS. 250 isn't abnormal in MCPS for MAP in 3rd but it's the 5th grade that counts. Only one school offers aim and it really doesn't matter. Supplement at home. About 1/3 the middle schools allow Algebra in 6th but only a select few are allowed or choose to do it. Otherwise smart kids take Algebra in 7th. Not a big deal either way. I would not have wanted my child to take AIM in 5th. Starting Algebra with out AIM was fine but child did do a summer prep class to make sure they could handle it.
The thing that gets me about all this is how parents use the acceleration that is only available at a handful of wealthy schools as a golden ticket to unlock programs like TJ and later complain how it's gone downhill when fewer privileged students are now admitted because the county adopts a more equitable admissions policy.
Yeah this is incorrect. Acceleration for 7th grade algebra is available at all middle schools and gifted children can be identified for AAP at all elementary schools. 6th grade algebra is rare in FCPS for everyone but it happens and would probably shake out wearier for a kid destined for AAP. A kid isn’t showing up at a title I school in FCPS in 5th grade all the sudden ready for algebra the next year and no one has noticed. You don’t gotta lie to kick it.
They are rambling about MCPS where there may be one school that offers AIM. AIM meaning pre-algbra in 5th. Most kids take Algebra in 7/8, some 9th. Some MS offer Algebra in 6th but its maybe under 25 students per school, if offered. They are mixed in with the 7/8 graders. Pre-Algebra for 5th is a bit absurd except for a genius level student.
Yes, 1-2 of the wealthiest schools in the county provide algebra in 6th, but the majority do not.
Yes, because there’s a cohort of students and qualified teachers that make offering algebra 1 in 6 feasible. At your average title 1 school there are many other things the administration has to deal with: teacher retention, chronic absenteeism, addressing the large chunk of students that are way below grade level. Let’s assume your child is the gifted genius you claim him to be. Maybe they see a child like that once a decade. You show up at their office door and demand your kid is placed in algebra because you’ve heard that at Frost kids with at least 250 on MAP get this treatment. You go on a rambling about fairness, MLK, opportunity hoarding and how your kids chances at TJ are compromised because they don’t put him in Algebra. I’m not surprised with the outcome you got. This being said there are opportunities you can pursue, but you’re too busy being a victim and going on your tiny little fairness crusade. Good luck, I hope you succeed!
250 is a pretty normal MAP score in MCPS.
For the billionth time, the test is not the same.
You are an idiot and don’t understand what you are talking about. The 3-5 test IS the same test but it adapts to ability, regardless of grade or age. Which means it’s comparable.
Computer adaptive means that the sequence of questions is dependent on how each question is answered, but the questions are chosen from the bank of the test. For MAP there are two versions of the test MAP 2-5, and MAP 6+ that have a different set of bank questions. Both have the same scale of scores, and the scores are somewhat equivalent, but the equivalency is not that accurate at the ends of the scale. A 250 on the MAP 2-5 would mostly test lower grade arithmetic content, while a 250 on the MAP 6+ tests well into algebra content. That’s why sometimes you see a dip in scores from 5th to 6th grade tests especially at the high end. Even within these two version there are subversions adjusted to state standards etc., you can also specify instructional area by grades, so it’s possible that each district chooses a version of the test that best fits their needs.
When a student takes the test, there’s a detailed report called Learning Continuum (it’s 30+ pages long), that breaks down the concepts the student understands at 75%, 50%, and 25% mastery. This report is more informative for student placement, because it is broken down in items like ‘inverse of a quadratic function (251-260)’.
I’d suggest that when you share your boundless knowledge on how MAP testing works, you post a link so we can evaluate independently your claims. It’s amazing how complete ignoramuses consider themselves experts just because they got a map test results letter in their mailbox.
Nothing you have said contradicts anything I’ve said. What is wrong is to say that the third grade test is not comparable with the 5th grade test. It is. No master how many times you claim otherwise, if a 3rd grade child has the same knowledge and abilities (and test taking aptitude) as a 5th grade child they will score the same.
You’re playing stupid on purpose or you’re just plain stupid. On this thread we’re are discussing MAP testing in the context of Algebra 1 placement for 6th grade. Some moron comparing himself to Martin Luther King, quoted his child’s MAP score in 3rd grade as evidence the child should be allowed to take that class. The nuanced answer is that for placement purposes it really depends what content was tested, and it’s perfectly possible the school was correct in denying Algebra 1 in 6th for that student because it was not appropriate. Then said moron cries unfairness all over this board and claims he’s fighting for fairness.
I suggest that you go back and reread the thread and then come back and apologize. Kids don’t take the sixth grade test until, duh, they are in 6th grade. Class placement decisions are taken in 5th grade ergo the only MAP test that anyone is looking at for 6th grade placement is the 3-5th test. Some schools (mostly wealthy ones but not the magnet middle schools) will consider placing kids with 250 or higher IN FIFTH GRADE on the 3-5 grade MAP test in 6th grade algebra. Their 6th grade score is irrelevant because that isn’t taken until they are already in 6th. The PP (who didn’t combats themself to MLK, someone else did) was saying that not only did their child exceed that 250 requirement in 5th but they got there in 3rd which IS directly comparable. Got it????
You are correct. The other poster is either horribly confused or trying to mislead others in a misguided attempt to defend privilege.
There is at most ONE school that has enough kids that would qualify. Otherwise all those kids are in compacted math and can take Algebra in 6th. What is the big deal and rush to take AIM in 5th? My kid started Algebra in 6th without AIM and it was fine but also starting Algebra in 7th would have been fine too. There is no such think as equity and nothing is fair in life so get over it. If you want your kid to do pre-algebra, you do it at home. MCPS offers free tutoring now. There is no flat cut off at most schools and they are flexible. These kids are in compacted math which is accelerated.
Why is this such a big deal to you?
The reality is that this is offered at considerably more than one school.
AIM is not offered in most ES, maybe one or two. Come MS, Algebra is offered in 6 in about 1/4-1/3 the schools. MCCPTA put out a list on their facebook group. Most of the kids who start Algebra in 6th are skipping AIM, like mine.
So, why is it really a big deal? It's nice to see schools focusing on kids needs. Even if it was offered to mine, I don't think I would have started AIM in 5th.
Although AIM is only offered in one ES, Algebra is offered to 6th graders at a handful of the wealthier Potomac schools.
Are you here to find pity and vent or there’s something concrete you are proposing?
No idea, I think they were correcting the PP who misrepresented the facts. Everyone knows there's only one ES that offers AIM but there are a handful of wealthy schools that offer algebra in 6th.
This is absolutely not true as we are not in a title one school. MCCPTA published a list. There is no secret.
It takes a 13 page thread to try and convince a fool the rich are not keeping her child down, and 2 minutes to google the list. Some people are too invested in being a righteous victim.
The same hypocrites who write in one thread about the decline of TJ and point out that few of the students today had taken algebra 2 and 8th also get all crazy when you point out their opportunity hoarding. Got to love the irony.
No, it's usually the same parents that would support expanding math acceleration to more schools, while others want to eliminate it in the name of equity.
Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.
From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)
Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.
But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.
Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.
It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.
What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.
Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.
The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.
Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class
No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.
Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.
This just means that you have an inflexible principal, or it means that your child is not the outlier that you perceive him to be. It doesn't mean that opportunities are lacking in Title I schools writ large. My kid tested off the charts at a Title I school. The school math resource teacher met one on one with my child to assess his math level and the proper placement. He ultimately ended up skipping 2/3 grade levels of math, taking IAAT and 7th grade SOL when in 4th grade and Algebra in 5th. Title I schools might not have sufficient cohort to offer Pre-Algebra in general to 5th graders. They absolutely can and will allow an individual child to join a higher grade level for math class when the child is otherwise an outlier.
You are in VA so it's a bit different can MCPS. 250 isn't abnormal in MCPS for MAP in 3rd but it's the 5th grade that counts. Only one school offers aim and it really doesn't matter. Supplement at home. About 1/3 the middle schools allow Algebra in 6th but only a select few are allowed or choose to do it. Otherwise smart kids take Algebra in 7th. Not a big deal either way. I would not have wanted my child to take AIM in 5th. Starting Algebra with out AIM was fine but child did do a summer prep class to make sure they could handle it.
The thing that gets me about all this is how parents use the acceleration that is only available at a handful of wealthy schools as a golden ticket to unlock programs like TJ and later complain how it's gone downhill when fewer privileged students are now admitted because the county adopts a more equitable admissions policy.
Yeah this is incorrect. Acceleration for 7th grade algebra is available at all middle schools and gifted children can be identified for AAP at all elementary schools. 6th grade algebra is rare in FCPS for everyone but it happens and would probably shake out wearier for a kid destined for AAP. A kid isn’t showing up at a title I school in FCPS in 5th grade all the sudden ready for algebra the next year and no one has noticed. You don’t gotta lie to kick it.
They are rambling about MCPS where there may be one school that offers AIM. AIM meaning pre-algbra in 5th. Most kids take Algebra in 7/8, some 9th. Some MS offer Algebra in 6th but its maybe under 25 students per school, if offered. They are mixed in with the 7/8 graders. Pre-Algebra for 5th is a bit absurd except for a genius level student.
Not sure about MCPS, but a lot of prealgebra and algebra topics are part of the standard elementary curriculum now.
Things that used to be part of algebra class, are now taught as part of pre-algebra, like graphing lines.
Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.
From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)
Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.
But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.
Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.
It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.
What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.
Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.
The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.
Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class
No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.
Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.
This just means that you have an inflexible principal, or it means that your child is not the outlier that you perceive him to be. It doesn't mean that opportunities are lacking in Title I schools writ large. My kid tested off the charts at a Title I school. The school math resource teacher met one on one with my child to assess his math level and the proper placement. He ultimately ended up skipping 2/3 grade levels of math, taking IAAT and 7th grade SOL when in 4th grade and Algebra in 5th. Title I schools might not have sufficient cohort to offer Pre-Algebra in general to 5th graders. They absolutely can and will allow an individual child to join a higher grade level for math class when the child is otherwise an outlier.
You are in VA so it's a bit different can MCPS. 250 isn't abnormal in MCPS for MAP in 3rd but it's the 5th grade that counts. Only one school offers aim and it really doesn't matter. Supplement at home. About 1/3 the middle schools allow Algebra in 6th but only a select few are allowed or choose to do it. Otherwise smart kids take Algebra in 7th. Not a big deal either way. I would not have wanted my child to take AIM in 5th. Starting Algebra with out AIM was fine but child did do a summer prep class to make sure they could handle it.
The thing that gets me about all this is how parents use the acceleration that is only available at a handful of wealthy schools as a golden ticket to unlock programs like TJ and later complain how it's gone downhill when fewer privileged students are now admitted because the county adopts a more equitable admissions policy.
Yeah this is incorrect. Acceleration for 7th grade algebra is available at all middle schools and gifted children can be identified for AAP at all elementary schools. 6th grade algebra is rare in FCPS for everyone but it happens and would probably shake out wearier for a kid destined for AAP. A kid isn’t showing up at a title I school in FCPS in 5th grade all the sudden ready for algebra the next year and no one has noticed. You don’t gotta lie to kick it.
They are rambling about MCPS where there may be one school that offers AIM. AIM meaning pre-algbra in 5th. Most kids take Algebra in 7/8, some 9th. Some MS offer Algebra in 6th but its maybe under 25 students per school, if offered. They are mixed in with the 7/8 graders. Pre-Algebra for 5th is a bit absurd except for a genius level student.
Yes, 1-2 of the wealthiest schools in the county provide algebra in 6th, but the majority do not.
Yes, because there’s a cohort of students and qualified teachers that make offering algebra 1 in 6 feasible. At your average title 1 school there are many other things the administration has to deal with: teacher retention, chronic absenteeism, addressing the large chunk of students that are way below grade level. Let’s assume your child is the gifted genius you claim him to be. Maybe they see a child like that once a decade. You show up at their office door and demand your kid is placed in algebra because you’ve heard that at Frost kids with at least 250 on MAP get this treatment. You go on a rambling about fairness, MLK, opportunity hoarding and how your kids chances at TJ are compromised because they don’t put him in Algebra. I’m not surprised with the outcome you got. This being said there are opportunities you can pursue, but you’re too busy being a victim and going on your tiny little fairness crusade. Good luck, I hope you succeed!
250 is a pretty normal MAP score in MCPS.
For the billionth time, the test is not the same.
You are an idiot and don’t understand what you are talking about. The 3-5 test IS the same test but it adapts to ability, regardless of grade or age. Which means it’s comparable.
Computer adaptive means that the sequence of questions is dependent on how each question is answered, but the questions are chosen from the bank of the test. For MAP there are two versions of the test MAP 2-5, and MAP 6+ that have a different set of bank questions. Both have the same scale of scores, and the scores are somewhat equivalent, but the equivalency is not that accurate at the ends of the scale. A 250 on the MAP 2-5 would mostly test lower grade arithmetic content, while a 250 on the MAP 6+ tests well into algebra content. That’s why sometimes you see a dip in scores from 5th to 6th grade tests especially at the high end. Even within these two version there are subversions adjusted to state standards etc., you can also specify instructional area by grades, so it’s possible that each district chooses a version of the test that best fits their needs.
When a student takes the test, there’s a detailed report called Learning Continuum (it’s 30+ pages long), that breaks down the concepts the student understands at 75%, 50%, and 25% mastery. This report is more informative for student placement, because it is broken down in items like ‘inverse of a quadratic function (251-260)’.
I’d suggest that when you share your boundless knowledge on how MAP testing works, you post a link so we can evaluate independently your claims. It’s amazing how complete ignoramuses consider themselves experts just because they got a map test results letter in their mailbox.
Nothing you have said contradicts anything I’ve said. What is wrong is to say that the third grade test is not comparable with the 5th grade test. It is. No master how many times you claim otherwise, if a 3rd grade child has the same knowledge and abilities (and test taking aptitude) as a 5th grade child they will score the same.
You’re playing stupid on purpose or you’re just plain stupid. On this thread we’re are discussing MAP testing in the context of Algebra 1 placement for 6th grade. Some moron comparing himself to Martin Luther King, quoted his child’s MAP score in 3rd grade as evidence the child should be allowed to take that class. The nuanced answer is that for placement purposes it really depends what content was tested, and it’s perfectly possible the school was correct in denying Algebra 1 in 6th for that student because it was not appropriate. Then said moron cries unfairness all over this board and claims he’s fighting for fairness.
I suggest that you go back and reread the thread and then come back and apologize. Kids don’t take the sixth grade test until, duh, they are in 6th grade. Class placement decisions are taken in 5th grade ergo the only MAP test that anyone is looking at for 6th grade placement is the 3-5th test. Some schools (mostly wealthy ones but not the magnet middle schools) will consider placing kids with 250 or higher IN FIFTH GRADE on the 3-5 grade MAP test in 6th grade algebra. Their 6th grade score is irrelevant because that isn’t taken until they are already in 6th. The PP (who didn’t combats themself to MLK, someone else did) was saying that not only did their child exceed that 250 requirement in 5th but they got there in 3rd which IS directly comparable. Got it????
My child was tested with MAP 6+ before 6th grade. Unless you have inside knowledge on how the math placement works at ‘wealthy’ schools, you should refrain from crying out unfairness, and rich privilege. You haven’t personally seen the files of students being placed, you are just relying on hearsay and second hand information.
And written reports. But you’re not actually in MCPS, are you? So you have no idea what happens in MCPS.
DP. To be fair, most of the people in this forum aren't in MCPS, considering that the forum is for FCPS AAP. Why did the MCPS people hijack this thread when there's already an MCPS forum?
This forum is about advanced academic programs, and is not limited to FCPS AAP.
My 12-year-old in magnet Algebra is studying rings and fields. These topics don't normally come up in MS math so I believe it goes deeper.
Can you expand on this? I’m curious what schools are teaching.
Note that ring is the professional mathematician name for integers (ES) and polynomials (Alg 1 and 2) and some fancier ways to look at square roots, and some exotics things that I doubt MS teaches. And Eureka teaches ring properties (commutativity, distributivity) in ES everywhere.
Likewise, field is the professional name for rings with division (fractions and modular “clock” arithmetic). Fractions are of course taught everywhere; I’m not sure about modular/clock arithmetic.
Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.
From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)
Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.
But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.
Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.
It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.
What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.
Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.
The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.
Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class
No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.
Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.
This just means that you have an inflexible principal, or it means that your child is not the outlier that you perceive him to be. It doesn't mean that opportunities are lacking in Title I schools writ large. My kid tested off the charts at a Title I school. The school math resource teacher met one on one with my child to assess his math level and the proper placement. He ultimately ended up skipping 2/3 grade levels of math, taking IAAT and 7th grade SOL when in 4th grade and Algebra in 5th. Title I schools might not have sufficient cohort to offer Pre-Algebra in general to 5th graders. They absolutely can and will allow an individual child to join a higher grade level for math class when the child is otherwise an outlier.
You are in VA so it's a bit different can MCPS. 250 isn't abnormal in MCPS for MAP in 3rd but it's the 5th grade that counts. Only one school offers aim and it really doesn't matter. Supplement at home. About 1/3 the middle schools allow Algebra in 6th but only a select few are allowed or choose to do it. Otherwise smart kids take Algebra in 7th. Not a big deal either way. I would not have wanted my child to take AIM in 5th. Starting Algebra with out AIM was fine but child did do a summer prep class to make sure they could handle it.
The thing that gets me about all this is how parents use the acceleration that is only available at a handful of wealthy schools as a golden ticket to unlock programs like TJ and later complain how it's gone downhill when fewer privileged students are now admitted because the county adopts a more equitable admissions policy.
Yeah this is incorrect. Acceleration for 7th grade algebra is available at all middle schools and gifted children can be identified for AAP at all elementary schools. 6th grade algebra is rare in FCPS for everyone but it happens and would probably shake out wearier for a kid destined for AAP. A kid isn’t showing up at a title I school in FCPS in 5th grade all the sudden ready for algebra the next year and no one has noticed. You don’t gotta lie to kick it.
They are rambling about MCPS where there may be one school that offers AIM. AIM meaning pre-algbra in 5th. Most kids take Algebra in 7/8, some 9th. Some MS offer Algebra in 6th but its maybe under 25 students per school, if offered. They are mixed in with the 7/8 graders. Pre-Algebra for 5th is a bit absurd except for a genius level student.
Yes, 1-2 of the wealthiest schools in the county provide algebra in 6th, but the majority do not.
Correct acceleration is only widely available to the wealthiest schools. There are plenty of qualified students elsewhere. They just don't get to access the same opportunities. When some parents complain, there are fewer students entering TJ who have taken algebra 2 and 8th grade. It is an indication that the selection process is now more equitable. Previously, this was used as a golden ticket to advantage students from the wealthiest schools.
+1
I’d be ok raising the minimum math bar to Algebra 1 in 7th. Each school does have AAP testing of all kids so all are eligible to get into AAP. All AAP kids are tested for algebra 1 for 7th so again this is open to all. Any leg up for math beyond that though is NOT available at all schools so is not appropriate to give plus points for.
One thing I like about MCPS approach with their STEM magnets is students who took Honors Geo or Algebra 2 in 8th can enter at the same level for HS math. There are 2 options, and it's more of a choice:
Functions: Covers Algebra 2 and Prealgebra in 2 semesters. It is rigorous, and there is screening for this. It can involve 2-4 hours of homework a night and half the class drops in the first month.
Magnet PreCalc: 3-semester Algebra 2 and Precalc.
The point is this puts kids on even footing. Maybe TJ already does something similar....
By the time kids get to high school they are not on equal footing. Just because they are in the same class doesn’t mean the starting point is the same. It should be obvious that students who went through algebra 2 will be better prepared to tackle algebra 2 content. Is it possible that some kids might catch up? Sure, but that’s the exception to the rule.
Students who are the same age but on a lower step in the math ladder had more time to learn Alg 1 and Geom than students who accelerated. Many accelerated kids are not excelling in those courses, and have shallower, shakier foundation.
Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.
From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)
Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.
But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.
Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.
It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.
What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.
Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.
The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.
Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class
No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.
Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.
This just means that you have an inflexible principal, or it means that your child is not the outlier that you perceive him to be. It doesn't mean that opportunities are lacking in Title I schools writ large. My kid tested off the charts at a Title I school. The school math resource teacher met one on one with my child to assess his math level and the proper placement. He ultimately ended up skipping 2/3 grade levels of math, taking IAAT and 7th grade SOL when in 4th grade and Algebra in 5th. Title I schools might not have sufficient cohort to offer Pre-Algebra in general to 5th graders. They absolutely can and will allow an individual child to join a higher grade level for math class when the child is otherwise an outlier.
You are in VA so it's a bit different can MCPS. 250 isn't abnormal in MCPS for MAP in 3rd but it's the 5th grade that counts. Only one school offers aim and it really doesn't matter. Supplement at home. About 1/3 the middle schools allow Algebra in 6th but only a select few are allowed or choose to do it. Otherwise smart kids take Algebra in 7th. Not a big deal either way. I would not have wanted my child to take AIM in 5th. Starting Algebra with out AIM was fine but child did do a summer prep class to make sure they could handle it.
The thing that gets me about all this is how parents use the acceleration that is only available at a handful of wealthy schools as a golden ticket to unlock programs like TJ and later complain how it's gone downhill when fewer privileged students are now admitted because the county adopts a more equitable admissions policy.
Yeah this is incorrect. Acceleration for 7th grade algebra is available at all middle schools and gifted children can be identified for AAP at all elementary schools. 6th grade algebra is rare in FCPS for everyone but it happens and would probably shake out wearier for a kid destined for AAP. A kid isn’t showing up at a title I school in FCPS in 5th grade all the sudden ready for algebra the next year and no one has noticed. You don’t gotta lie to kick it.
They are rambling about MCPS where there may be one school that offers AIM. AIM meaning pre-algbra in 5th. Most kids take Algebra in 7/8, some 9th. Some MS offer Algebra in 6th but its maybe under 25 students per school, if offered. They are mixed in with the 7/8 graders. Pre-Algebra for 5th is a bit absurd except for a genius level student.
Yes, 1-2 of the wealthiest schools in the county provide algebra in 6th, but the majority do not.
Correct acceleration is only widely available to the wealthiest schools. There are plenty of qualified students elsewhere. They just don't get to access the same opportunities. When some parents complain, there are fewer students entering TJ who have taken algebra 2 and 8th grade. It is an indication that the selection process is now more equitable. Previously, this was used as a golden ticket to advantage students from the wealthiest schools.
+1
I’d be ok raising the minimum math bar to Algebra 1 in 7th. Each school does have AAP testing of all kids so all are eligible to get into AAP. All AAP kids are tested for algebra 1 for 7th so again this is open to all. Any leg up for math beyond that though is NOT available at all schools so is not appropriate to give plus points for.
One thing I like about MCPS approach with their STEM magnets is students who took Honors Geo or Algebra 2 in 8th can enter at the same level for HS math. There are 2 options, and it's more of a choice:
Functions: Covers Algebra 2 and Prealgebra in 2 semesters. It is rigorous, and there is screening for this. It can involve 2-4 hours of homework a night and half the class drops in the first month.
Magnet PreCalc: 3-semester Algebra 2 and Precalc.
The point is this puts kids on even footing. Maybe TJ already does something similar....
By the time kids get to high school they are not on equal footing. Just because they are in the same class doesn’t mean the starting point is the same. It should be obvious that students who went through algebra 2 will be better prepared to tackle algebra 2 content. Is it possible that some kids might catch up? Sure, but that’s the exception to the rule.
Students who are the same age but on a lower step in the math ladder had more time to learn Alg 1 and Geom than students who accelerated. Many accelerated kids are not excelling in those courses, and have shallower, shakier foundation.
Not necessarily if parents supplemented at home or those kids were just very smart. If the lower level kids did have a better foundation and knowledge they would be testing higher on map. In mcps, the 4-5 graders can take compacted math at almost all es. Then in MS, those with high map scores who don’t get into or choose magnet at some MS are offered algebra.
Mcps is offering tons of free tutoring so if parents don’t choose to use it, that’s on them.
Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.
From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)
Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.
But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.
Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.
It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.
What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.
Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.
The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.
Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class
No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.
Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.
This just means that you have an inflexible principal, or it means that your child is not the outlier that you perceive him to be. It doesn't mean that opportunities are lacking in Title I schools writ large. My kid tested off the charts at a Title I school. The school math resource teacher met one on one with my child to assess his math level and the proper placement. He ultimately ended up skipping 2/3 grade levels of math, taking IAAT and 7th grade SOL when in 4th grade and Algebra in 5th. Title I schools might not have sufficient cohort to offer Pre-Algebra in general to 5th graders. They absolutely can and will allow an individual child to join a higher grade level for math class when the child is otherwise an outlier.
You are in VA so it's a bit different can MCPS. 250 isn't abnormal in MCPS for MAP in 3rd but it's the 5th grade that counts. Only one school offers aim and it really doesn't matter. Supplement at home. About 1/3 the middle schools allow Algebra in 6th but only a select few are allowed or choose to do it. Otherwise smart kids take Algebra in 7th. Not a big deal either way. I would not have wanted my child to take AIM in 5th. Starting Algebra with out AIM was fine but child did do a summer prep class to make sure they could handle it.
The thing that gets me about all this is how parents use the acceleration that is only available at a handful of wealthy schools as a golden ticket to unlock programs like TJ and later complain how it's gone downhill when fewer privileged students are now admitted because the county adopts a more equitable admissions policy.
Yeah this is incorrect. Acceleration for 7th grade algebra is available at all middle schools and gifted children can be identified for AAP at all elementary schools. 6th grade algebra is rare in FCPS for everyone but it happens and would probably shake out wearier for a kid destined for AAP. A kid isn’t showing up at a title I school in FCPS in 5th grade all the sudden ready for algebra the next year and no one has noticed. You don’t gotta lie to kick it.
They are rambling about MCPS where there may be one school that offers AIM. AIM meaning pre-algbra in 5th. Most kids take Algebra in 7/8, some 9th. Some MS offer Algebra in 6th but its maybe under 25 students per school, if offered. They are mixed in with the 7/8 graders. Pre-Algebra for 5th is a bit absurd except for a genius level student.
Yes, 1-2 of the wealthiest schools in the county provide algebra in 6th, but the majority do not.
Correct acceleration is only widely available to the wealthiest schools. There are plenty of qualified students elsewhere. They just don't get to access the same opportunities. When some parents complain, there are fewer students entering TJ who have taken algebra 2 and 8th grade. It is an indication that the selection process is now more equitable. Previously, this was used as a golden ticket to advantage students from the wealthiest schools.
+1
I’d be ok raising the minimum math bar to Algebra 1 in 7th. Each school does have AAP testing of all kids so all are eligible to get into AAP. All AAP kids are tested for algebra 1 for 7th so again this is open to all. Any leg up for math beyond that though is NOT available at all schools so is not appropriate to give plus points for.
One thing I like about MCPS approach with their STEM magnets is students who took Honors Geo or Algebra 2 in 8th can enter at the same level for HS math. There are 2 options, and it's more of a choice:
Functions: Covers Algebra 2 and Prealgebra in 2 semesters. It is rigorous, and there is screening for this. It can involve 2-4 hours of homework a night and half the class drops in the first month.
Magnet PreCalc: 3-semester Algebra 2 and Precalc.
The point is this puts kids on even footing. Maybe TJ already does something similar....
By the time kids get to high school they are not on equal footing. Just because they are in the same class doesn’t mean the starting point is the same. It should be obvious that students who went through algebra 2 will be better prepared to tackle algebra 2 content. Is it possible that some kids might catch up? Sure, but that’s the exception to the rule.
Students who are the same age but on a lower step in the math ladder had more time to learn Alg 1 and Geom than students who accelerated. Many accelerated kids are not excelling in those courses, and have shallower, shakier foundation.
Not necessarily if parents supplemented at home or those kids were just very smart. If the lower level kids did have a better foundation and knowledge they would be testing higher on map. In mcps, the 4-5 graders can take compacted math at almost all es. Then in MS, those with high map scores who don’t get into or choose magnet at some MS are offered algebra.
Mcps is offering tons of free tutoring so if parents don’t choose to use it, that’s on them.
Yes, but more often than not the kids who were artificially accelerated had less solid foundation than many of the kids who did not have these opportunities lavished on them. Ironically, they often surpass the kids by high school. I think this is why schools like Blair make math pathway more of a choice.
Anonymous wrote:
I think this is off too. Going from 260s to 290s while they are at home doing normal 3-5th grade homework and maybe some supplement just wouldn’t happen. I can’t imagine the type of out school work a kid would be doing to have these gains. My child has ranged from high 250s-low 260s in 3,4, and now 5th grade. So it is clear he has a high level of math skill but also hasn’t been learning anything new in a long time. We try at home, but we our best at home, it isn’t enough. I think ultimately he would benefit from being in an actual math class at school that is teaching him new material, which is why I’m considering alg I in 6th grade. I expect it to be a mix of some review and some new material.
From my experience: our child scored 275 on NWEA MAP 2-5 in 4th grade (due to Covid acceleration), got a raw 60/60 on the IAAT in 5th grade, perfect SOL - they're now completing Algebra I in sixth grade.
Although only about 2.5% of their cohort was admitted to Algebra in 6th grade, it's clear that some of the other kids shouldn't be there and a dragging down the level of instruction compared to what could be done. (They score 80-90% on tests that allow Desmos...)
Unfortunately, if I were you, I'd still be pushing for Algebra in 6th grade for the alternative of more school-level prealgebra is worse and a waste of time.
But I would have my child go deeper in prep: make sure they're at the mastery level of all Alcumus Prealgebra subjects, and potentially pay for them to take the online version of Prealgebra 1 + 2 at AoPS (or the in-person version if you can afford the money and logistics). We also did their Algebra A course when our child was in 5th grade. Then school-level Algebra I will indeed be mostly review and they can focus on working ahead on the Geometry and Intermediate Algebra, which we're addressing now.
Also make sure they participate in AMC-8, Math Kangaroo, and Mathcounts and engage in regular practice there.
It seems you essentially homeschool your child. Not sure why he’s taking 6th grade Algebra at this point, maybe for credit or because it’s the most accelerated path available at the school.
What is really rubbing me the wrong way is how you claim the other kids scoring in the 80-90% don’t belong to that class, when in fact it’s your own child that doesn’t belong there having already completed the material. You have the expectation that 6th grade algebra should somehow be modified to match your child’s level and not the level of the other students in the class that were placed appropriately.
Kudos to the kids that work hard, but sometimes the parents of these children are so insufferable and disparage other kids when most likely there are equally as bright, but just don’t have the early exposure to accelerate them along the math pathway.
The 6th graders in algebra should do better than that, and are elsewhere the top students in the class.
Meanwhile, at title one schools students are denied these opportunities despite being the top students in their class
No they are not. Title one schools all offer algebra I, typically to 8th graders, where there is low participation anyhow. The amount of 6th graders that could qualify to take it are very very few, probably one every few yrs. There are few 6th graders doing this even in the best districts. Majority of schools would have zero issue putting a 6th grader in it since there is so little demand and it is an easy accommodation.
Oh really? That is NOT TRUE. Please name a single title-1 school that offers Pre-Algebra to 5th graders like the wealthy elemenataries. Some wealthy MS offer Algebra 1 to any 6th graders who score over 250 on their 5th grade MAP-M. Well, DC scored over 250 on the same test in 3rd grade. I remember asking the principal of our title-1 school if there was anything they could offer them since they were not challenged. They said sorry we don't offer that here.
This just means that you have an inflexible principal, or it means that your child is not the outlier that you perceive him to be. It doesn't mean that opportunities are lacking in Title I schools writ large. My kid tested off the charts at a Title I school. The school math resource teacher met one on one with my child to assess his math level and the proper placement. He ultimately ended up skipping 2/3 grade levels of math, taking IAAT and 7th grade SOL when in 4th grade and Algebra in 5th. Title I schools might not have sufficient cohort to offer Pre-Algebra in general to 5th graders. They absolutely can and will allow an individual child to join a higher grade level for math class when the child is otherwise an outlier.
You are in VA so it's a bit different can MCPS. 250 isn't abnormal in MCPS for MAP in 3rd but it's the 5th grade that counts. Only one school offers aim and it really doesn't matter. Supplement at home. About 1/3 the middle schools allow Algebra in 6th but only a select few are allowed or choose to do it. Otherwise smart kids take Algebra in 7th. Not a big deal either way. I would not have wanted my child to take AIM in 5th. Starting Algebra with out AIM was fine but child did do a summer prep class to make sure they could handle it.
The thing that gets me about all this is how parents use the acceleration that is only available at a handful of wealthy schools as a golden ticket to unlock programs like TJ and later complain how it's gone downhill when fewer privileged students are now admitted because the county adopts a more equitable admissions policy.
Yeah this is incorrect. Acceleration for 7th grade algebra is available at all middle schools and gifted children can be identified for AAP at all elementary schools. 6th grade algebra is rare in FCPS for everyone but it happens and would probably shake out wearier for a kid destined for AAP. A kid isn’t showing up at a title I school in FCPS in 5th grade all the sudden ready for algebra the next year and no one has noticed. You don’t gotta lie to kick it.
They are rambling about MCPS where there may be one school that offers AIM. AIM meaning pre-algbra in 5th. Most kids take Algebra in 7/8, some 9th. Some MS offer Algebra in 6th but its maybe under 25 students per school, if offered. They are mixed in with the 7/8 graders. Pre-Algebra for 5th is a bit absurd except for a genius level student.
Yes, 1-2 of the wealthiest schools in the county provide algebra in 6th, but the majority do not.
Correct acceleration is only widely available to the wealthiest schools. There are plenty of qualified students elsewhere. They just don't get to access the same opportunities. When some parents complain, there are fewer students entering TJ who have taken algebra 2 and 8th grade. It is an indication that the selection process is now more equitable. Previously, this was used as a golden ticket to advantage students from the wealthiest schools.
+1
I’d be ok raising the minimum math bar to Algebra 1 in 7th. Each school does have AAP testing of all kids so all are eligible to get into AAP. All AAP kids are tested for algebra 1 for 7th so again this is open to all. Any leg up for math beyond that though is NOT available at all schools so is not appropriate to give plus points for.
One thing I like about MCPS approach with their STEM magnets is students who took Honors Geo or Algebra 2 in 8th can enter at the same level for HS math. There are 2 options, and it's more of a choice:
Functions: Covers Algebra 2 and Prealgebra in 2 semesters. It is rigorous, and there is screening for this. It can involve 2-4 hours of homework a night and half the class drops in the first month.
Magnet PreCalc: 3-semester Algebra 2 and Precalc.
The point is this puts kids on even footing. Maybe TJ already does something similar....
By the time kids get to high school they are not on equal footing. Just because they are in the same class doesn’t mean the starting point is the same. It should be obvious that students who went through algebra 2 will be better prepared to tackle algebra 2 content. Is it possible that some kids might catch up? Sure, but that’s the exception to the rule.
Students who are the same age but on a lower step in the math ladder had more time to learn Alg 1 and Geom than students who accelerated. Many accelerated kids are not excelling in those courses, and have shallower, shakier foundation.
Not necessarily if parents supplemented at home or those kids were just very smart. If the lower level kids did have a better foundation and knowledge they would be testing higher on map. In mcps, the 4-5 graders can take compacted math at almost all es. Then in MS, those with high map scores who don’t get into or choose magnet at some MS are offered algebra.
Mcps is offering tons of free tutoring so if parents don’t choose to use it, that’s on them.
Yes, but more often than not the kids who were artificially accelerated had less solid foundation than many of the kids who did not have these opportunities lavished on them. Ironically, they often surpass the kids by high school. I think this is why schools like Blair make math pathway more of a choice.
Yeah I think you may be right, That’s why the college and professional outcomes of high schools like Lewis and Lake Braddock actually indicate that Lewis graduates have more STEM success. /s
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