Diversity of schools - can this work both ways? Am I being unreasonable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read all the replies and I'm sure there's interesting stuff in there.

But I'll say that there's actual research about this, a "tipping point" at which white parents feel comfortable sending their child to a school. It's 26% or so.

We were in one of the only majority white elementary schools in our city and then there was a rezoning which sent my white dominant neighborhood to a school that was over 90% Black. Oh boy, the weeping, the gnashing of teeth. You can't tell me subconscious (or conscious) bias isn't real when you see how people reacted to the news they might have to move from one highly regarded school one mile away to another highly regarded school one mile away. On the flip side, there were many people who said, look guys, let's not be ridiculous, this is the right thing to do . . . but I'd say about half of those people quietly slipped away to majority white spaces after talking the good talk. So in my daughter's class she was the only white girl (plus one white boy) that first year. This wasn't our first time in a scenario like this . . . she'd been to a birthday party where she was the only white child before. So my concern was minimal.

And at the end of the day I shouldn't have had any concern at all. We're now in year 3 and my kid is thriving and says it's even better than the old school. Of course there are all sorts of issues to grapple with like the role of the PTA (which is super white compared to the makeup of the school), how to become part of an established community without trying to change it, how to facilitate friendships outside of school, and how kindergarten and first grade are much whiter than the upper grades (about 35%) and we could eventually become like the school we left.

When we went to that birthday party when our kids were young where we were the only people who weren't Black, I had to really sit with myself and admit that I wasn't some unbiased exception to the rule. I had to recognize that people of color experience that dynamic all the time. And when you hear white people talk about sending their kids to a school where they'll possibly be the only white child and saying, "I don't want them to be a guinea pig," you have to be disgusted at the racism inherent in that statement. Something is only tried and true if white people have been there? WTAF?

I'm sure someone has recommended already, but I highly recommend the Nice White Parents podcast. Don't be those folks. But also, don't avoid a community that would welcome you out of fear. Just commit yourself to humility and an open heart.

Thank you so much for this perspective! If everyone shared it, our country and communities would be much healthier.

I too send my half-white kids to a majority minority school where they are thriving, and everything you say rings true (including the changing demographics in the younger years.) But my older sons class is 10 percent white, and he is happy at school, learning, has academic peers, has friends, feels known and liked by the staff, etc etc. He loves it there. And I think going to an elementary school that is not a majority white space is going to help counter the false feeling of white supremacy that is rotting away in our society.

Let me guess, your kids aren't half or full Asian. I was about the only Asian student in my majority minority, predominantly low SES ES in another city, where I was often called "chink." Kids would routinely pull on the corner of their eyes when I walked by, taunting me with the question "How can you see out of those little slit eyes?" I didn't love it there. When my parents finally complained to admins that I was being bullied, my tormentors upped their game. Every so often, they'd trip me in a hallway, shouting "Chink down!" This was the signal to form a circle around me to kick me as I struggled to get up. Things improved once I reached middle school, a majority white school. I thought the days of beating up East Asians were mostly behind us as a society until the pandemic came along.

DCPS schools without Asians? We certainly won't be the first to enroll and don't know other Asian immigrant families who would.

I'm the PP and actually, im south asian and my kids are half south asian. I'm so sorry for your experience and I know it was traumatizing. I grew up as the only non-white person in my elementary school and you know what? the racism i experienced was also horrifying and traumatic! it also got better in middle school, with the same kids, because I think that sort of racism is at its worst in elementary school. kids grow out of it a bit.

I am so thankful that my kids dont experience that. believe me, I am extremely alert to these things and I would know -- it is not happening. however, a friend whose kid is at an Upper NW mostly white school is being called "wonton." I vastly prefer the experience my kids are having, in school is truly diverse, with black, white, asian and latino kids all mixed together.

I would seek this too when possible but DC does not have the demographics for every school to have such an appealing mix, so people have to make tough chocies like be the one and only or seek alternatives. No lie, I'd rather be the one and only at a high Ses than low ses school, but sure that's controversial to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly value a diverse environment for my children. I want them to interact with and befriend people from all walks of life - economically, perspective, experience, racially and ethnically. Diversity isn't a buzzword for me - I truly see the value in it, across a variety of contexts.

Is diversity really a value to you or do your just want a pat on the back from black, brown, queer, disabled and poor folks? Upper/middle class white people are always worried about their kids being “the only one” or “uncomfortable.” If you care about diversity, then let your kid experience what it has been like to be a Black or Brown or queer, disabled, fat or low income person in North American culture since it values whiteness, thinness, heterosexuality, physical dominance and wealth. Have them take the bus to school from 30 blocks away, try to be on time and not have anything for dinner for 3 days in a row, have them spend a week navigating the world in a wheel chair, fast for Eid, have them wait tables in an IHOP during the night shift in a working class neighborhood, let them hold hands with their same sex friend while in a Dairy Queen in a small, rural Southern town.

It takes innate courage, grit and joy to thrive and shine in a country when you are not be born part of the dominant white, straight, Judeo-Christian, able-bodied, middle class culture. It doesn’t matter what type of school your kid goes to- what matters is the kaleidoscope of experiences that form the fabric of their life. If their life is the MC/UMC path of school (even in a “diverse” school), pressure cooker academics, tutors, soccer/basketball/football or ballet/lacrosse/softball and college study abroad, then your kid’s worldview will be very small indeed. Good luck to your child on the journey-

I've done like literally everything you've listed other than a wheelchair. Not out of choice. Out of necessity. The dominant result of these experiences was a burning desire to shield myself and my children from anything like this ever happening to them, and insulate from hardships in a blanket of money. Don't romanticize poverty or hardship. Most people who are in the middle of it dream of nothing but ending it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I truly value a diverse environment for my children. I want them to interact with and befriend people from all walks of life - economically, perspective, experience, racially and ethnically. Diversity isn't a buzzword for me - I truly see the value in it, across a variety of contexts.

My children are white. I would never send them to a school that was 95% white. I'm upper middle class, closer to upper class than middle class, I think (HHI - $200k). I would never send them to a school that was 95% UMC or wealthy.

However there is a flip side - there are many schools in DC that are <1% white. Is it racist for me to be uncomfortable sending my kid there? It feels like a lot to ask of a 14 year old to be one of two white kids in his whole grade. No one wants their kid to stand out, or to feel like they don't belong.

Is that a bad thing? I'm honestly wondering. Particularly interested in the opinion of people of color - I know it's not your job to educate me on matters of race, but I really struggle with this one, so any help would be appreciated.

I know that schools on both ends of this (95% white, and <1% white) are the result of policies of racism and discrimination that continue to this day, and I want to be a good citizen and a good neighbor and help to dismantle this. But there are much bigger societal forces at play. I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this matter.

I grew up as a religious minority in a setting where people were of the same race but ethnic affiliation was immediately obvious. We mixed very little. We stepped around each other, learned about a comfortable distance to maintain, no dating, CERTAINLY no intermarriage. Don't romanticize diversity. People seek out their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I am from ex USSR and I find obsession with diversity quite ridiculous. Unless of course it’s a misnomer for a school that’s not completely non white.

I’m from the US and I find the anti-Semitism, homophobia, and appalling racism of most people in the former Soviet Union ridiculous, so I couldn’t possibly care less about your opinion about diversity. Sit down and STFU.

Nyet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
5. School integration is a dream that the civil rights movement initiated. we have not achieved it. I really believe that everyone would benefit from going to a school that feels truly integrated, with children of all different races. what can we all do to achieve that goal?

You can perform brain surgery on everyone to remove the part that seeks affinity with its own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly value a diverse environment for my children. I want them to interact with and befriend people from all walks of life - economically, perspective, experience, racially and ethnically. Diversity isn't a buzzword for me - I truly see the value in it, across a variety of contexts.

Is diversity really a value to you or do your just want a pat on the back from black, brown, queer, disabled and poor folks? Upper/middle class white people are always worried about their kids being “the only one” or “uncomfortable.” If you care about diversity, then let your kid experience what it has been like to be a Black or Brown or queer, disabled, fat or low income person in North American culture since it values whiteness, thinness, heterosexuality, physical dominance and wealth. Have them take the bus to school from 30 blocks away, try to be on time and not have anything for dinner for 3 days in a row, have them spend a week navigating the world in a wheel chair, fast for Eid, have them wait tables in an IHOP during the night shift in a working class neighborhood, let them hold hands with their same sex friend while in a Dairy Queen in a small, rural Southern town.

It takes innate courage, grit and joy to thrive and shine in a country when you are not be born part of the dominant white, straight, Judeo-Christian, able-bodied, middle class culture. It doesn’t matter what type of school your kid goes to- what matters is the kaleidoscope of experiences that form the fabric of their life. If their life is the MC/UMC path of school (even in a “diverse” school), pressure cooker academics, tutors, soccer/basketball/football or ballet/lacrosse/softball and college study abroad, then your kid’s worldview will be very small indeed. Good luck to your child on the journey-

This is a truly clueless and idiotic tale. 10/10. No notes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former Soviet Union immigrants are on a par with Asians in achievement in instrumental music. Like Asians, they gravitate to suburban schools with strong math and chess teams and orchestras and bands.

My Asian immigrant parents and grandparents could have absolutely cared less if my siblings and I, and our children, attend public schools with low-income AAs and Latinos. They had far too many of their own problems in East Asia, wars, dictatorship, ancestral lands confiscated, famine etc. Privately, I don't care much myself (and I worked as a Dem Congressional staffer for years). Good white liberals don't really get East Asian immigrants.

They don't get ANY immigrants, they are too busy renaming Latino population into latinx and getting offended on everyone's behalf.

Generally speaking, immigrants, wherever they're from, have pretty different priorities when it comes to education compared to the type of people who wring their hands about diversity on boards like DCUM.

The average Indian, Nigerian, Chinese or Polish immigrant is only interested in getting their kids into the best school they can, so that they can get the best education and go to the best University. They don't give a single thought about any other kid than their own.

Which is as it should be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly value a diverse environment for my children. I want them to interact with and befriend people from all walks of life - economically, perspective, experience, racially and ethnically. Diversity isn't a buzzword for me - I truly see the value in it, across a variety of contexts.

Is diversity really a value to you or do your just want a pat on the back from black, brown, queer, disabled and poor folks? Upper/middle class white people are always worried about their kids being “the only one” or “uncomfortable.” If you care about diversity, then let your kid experience what it has been like to be a Black or Brown or queer, disabled, fat or low income person in North American culture since it values whiteness, thinness, heterosexuality, physical dominance and wealth. Have them take the bus to school from 30 blocks away, try to be on time and not have anything for dinner for 3 days in a row, have them spend a week navigating the world in a wheel chair, fast for Eid, have them wait tables in an IHOP during the night shift in a working class neighborhood, let them hold hands with their same sex friend while in a Dairy Queen in a small, rural Southern town.

It takes innate courage, grit and joy to thrive and shine in a country when you are not be born part of the dominant white, straight, Judeo-Christian, able-bodied, middle class culture. It doesn’t matter what type of school your kid goes to- what matters is the kaleidoscope of experiences that form the fabric of their life. If their life is the MC/UMC path of school (even in a “diverse” school), pressure cooker academics, tutors, soccer/basketball/football or ballet/lacrosse/softball and college study abroad, then your kid’s worldview will be very small indeed. Good luck to your child on the journey-

I've done like literally everything you've listed other than a wheelchair. Not out of choice. Out of necessity. The dominant result of these experiences was a burning desire to shield myself and my children from anything like this ever happening to them, and insulate from hardships in a blanket of money. Don't romanticize poverty or hardship. Most people who are in the middle of it dream of nothing but ending it.

Yeah, the idea that I'm going to let my child suffer because other people in the world have it tough is asinine.

I mean, if my kid's school has a bunch of non-white kids whose parents are doctors, diplomats, college professors etc., that's cool. But if it was 95%+ white, I'd be fine, too. I'm not interested in having my kids be part of some social experiment at the cost of their education.

[Anonymous]

Are your children having a difficult time socially? Are they having a difficult time academically? Do you feel like they are thriving and learning? Those are the more important question I think.

I think there is too much focus on what people should or should not do. You love your children and should do what is right for your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are your children having a difficult time socially? Are they having a difficult time academically? Do you feel like they are thriving and learning? Those are the more important question I think.

I think there is too much focus on what people should or should not do. You love your children and should do what is right for your children.

Agree that people worry too much about what you "should" do. But also totally get why people feel this because especially now, there is a very pervasive attitude that by simply making the choice you think is best for your child, you are perpetuating racism. And in the extreme this actually is definitely true (you can't argue that a wealthy white person choosing to send their child to an overwhelmingly white private school isn't perpetuating white supremacy -- they are).

The question gets thorny though when you are talking about MC people and public schools that range from bad to adequate to just a bit better than average, as in DC. Lots of parents are trying to get their kids into the "just a bit better than average" schools, and thus these schools become more diverse (as in have larger white and Asian populations by virtue of demand). But it means that that may of the adequate schools in DC are also overwhelmingly black and that many white and Asian families wonder if they also need to try to move to those slightly above average schools. It's a much tighter weighing of factors. Both schools are adequate, the above average school is not phenomenal, and some of the benefits of the above average school stem simply from being a community of higher SES families. I'm not a big fan of doing something because you feel you should, but I also get why this specific decision is really challenging for people.

Like I want to send my kid to a neighborhood school. I want to send my kid to a diverse school. And I want my kid to get a good education. In DC, I am not getting all three. So which do I choose and why? There are a lot of implications there.

(Just to lay all my cards on the table, what I decided was to do the neighborhood/adquate school for ECE and now we're going to move to a more diverse school for upper elementary if we can, as much for the additional diversity as for a better MS path. I'm happy with my choices and think I've done right by my kid AND my community to the best of my ability, but I totally get why this is stressful for people as it's not like we reached these decisions without any second-guessing.)

These issues are not straightforward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are your children having a difficult time socially? Are they having a difficult time academically? Do you feel like they are thriving and learning? Those are the more important question I think.

I think there is too much focus on what people should or should not do. You love your children and should do what is right for your children.

Agree that people worry too much about what you "should" do. But also totally get why people feel this because especially now, there is a very pervasive attitude that by simply making the choice you think is best for your child, you are perpetuating racism. And in the extreme this actually is definitely true (you can't argue that a wealthy white person choosing to send their child to an overwhelmingly white private school isn't perpetuating white supremacy -- they are).

It's amazing how you're a mind reader and can know peoples' motivations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly value a diverse environment for my children. I want them to interact with and befriend people from all walks of life - economically, perspective, experience, racially and ethnically. Diversity isn't a buzzword for me - I truly see the value in it, across a variety of contexts.

Is diversity really a value to you or do your just want a pat on the back from black, brown, queer, disabled and poor folks? Upper/middle class white people are always worried about their kids being “the only one” or “uncomfortable.” If you care about diversity, then let your kid experience what it has been like to be a Black or Brown or queer, disabled, fat or low income person in North American culture since it values whiteness, thinness, heterosexuality, physical dominance and wealth. Have them take the bus to school from 30 blocks away, try to be on time and not have anything for dinner for 3 days in a row, have them spend a week navigating the world in a wheel chair, fast for Eid, have them wait tables in an IHOP during the night shift in a working class neighborhood, let them hold hands with their same sex friend while in a Dairy Queen in a small, rural Southern town.

It takes innate courage, grit and joy to thrive and shine in a country when you are not be born part of the dominant white, straight, Judeo-Christian, able-bodied, middle class culture. It doesn’t matter what type of school your kid goes to- what matters is the kaleidoscope of experiences that form the fabric of their life. If their life is the MC/UMC path of school (even in a “diverse” school), pressure cooker academics, tutors, soccer/basketball/football or ballet/lacrosse/softball and college study abroad, then your kid’s worldview will be very small indeed. Good luck to your child on the journey-

I've done like literally everything you've listed other than a wheelchair. Not out of choice. Out of necessity. The dominant result of these experiences was a burning desire to shield myself and my children from anything like this ever happening to them, and insulate from hardships in a blanket of money. Don't romanticize poverty or hardship. Most people who are in the middle of it dream of nothing but ending it.

Yeah, the idea that I'm going to let my child suffer because other people in the world have it tough is asinine.

I mean, if my kid's school has a bunch of non-white kids whose parents are doctors, diplomats, college professors etc., that's cool. But if it was 95%+ white, I'd be fine, too. I'm not interested in having my kids be part of some social experiment at the cost of their education.

This x 1 million. And we are not white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly value a diverse environment for my children. I want them to interact with and befriend people from all walks of life - economically, perspective, experience, racially and ethnically. Diversity isn't a buzzword for me - I truly see the value in it, across a variety of contexts.

Is diversity really a value to you or do your just want a pat on the back from black, brown, queer, disabled and poor folks? Upper/middle class white people are always worried about their kids being “the only one” or “uncomfortable.” If you care about diversity, then let your kid experience what it has been like to be a Black or Brown or queer, disabled, fat or low income person in North American culture since it values whiteness, thinness, heterosexuality, physical dominance and wealth. Have them take the bus to school from 30 blocks away, try to be on time and not have anything for dinner for 3 days in a row, have them spend a week navigating the world in a wheel chair, fast for Eid, have them wait tables in an IHOP during the night shift in a working class neighborhood, let them hold hands with their same sex friend while in a Dairy Queen in a small, rural Southern town.

It takes innate courage, grit and joy to thrive and shine in a country when you are not be born part of the dominant white, straight, Judeo-Christian, able-bodied, middle class culture. It doesn’t matter what type of school your kid goes to- what matters is the kaleidoscope of experiences that form the fabric of their life. If their life is the MC/UMC path of school (even in a “diverse” school), pressure cooker academics, tutors, soccer/basketball/football or ballet/lacrosse/softball and college study abroad, then your kid’s worldview will be very small indeed. Good luck to your child on the journey-

I've done like literally everything you've listed other than a wheelchair. Not out of choice. Out of necessity. The dominant result of these experiences was a burning desire to shield myself and my children from anything like this ever happening to them, and insulate from hardships in a blanket of money. Don't romanticize poverty or hardship. Most people who are in the middle of it dream of nothing but ending it.

Yeah, the idea that I'm going to let my child suffer because other people in the world have it tough is asinine.

I mean, if my kid's school has a bunch of non-white kids whose parents are doctors, diplomats, college professors etc., that's cool. But if it was 95%+ white, I'd be fine, too. I'm not interested in having my kids be part of some social experiment at the cost of their education.

Wow. I can’t believe someone is still using the phrase “social experiment” in this context. It’s both ridiculously cliche and rather offensive.

Do you honestly believe that your kid will not thrive — but will instead “suffer” — unless surrounded by children of the upper echelons of society?

[Anonymous]

i agree. lots of socioeconomic classism in the thread responses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I truly value a diverse environment for my children. I want them to interact with and befriend people from all walks of life - economically, perspective, experience, racially and ethnically. Diversity isn't a buzzword for me - I truly see the value in it, across a variety of contexts.

Is diversity really a value to you or do your just want a pat on the back from black, brown, queer, disabled and poor folks? Upper/middle class white people are always worried about their kids being “the only one” or “uncomfortable.” If you care about diversity, then let your kid experience what it has been like to be a Black or Brown or queer, disabled, fat or low income person in North American culture since it values whiteness, thinness, heterosexuality, physical dominance and wealth. Have them take the bus to school from 30 blocks away, try to be on time and not have anything for dinner for 3 days in a row, have them spend a week navigating the world in a wheel chair, fast for Eid, have them wait tables in an IHOP during the night shift in a working class neighborhood, let them hold hands with their same sex friend while in a Dairy Queen in a small, rural Southern town.

It takes innate courage, grit and joy to thrive and shine in a country when you are not be born part of the dominant white, straight, Judeo-Christian, able-bodied, middle class culture. It doesn’t matter what type of school your kid goes to- what matters is the kaleidoscope of experiences that form the fabric of their life. If their life is the MC/UMC path of school (even in a “diverse” school), pressure cooker academics, tutors, soccer/basketball/football or ballet/lacrosse/softball and college study abroad, then your kid’s worldview will be very small indeed. Good luck to your child on the journey-

I've done like literally everything you've listed other than a wheelchair. Not out of choice. Out of necessity. The dominant result of these experiences was a burning desire to shield myself and my children from anything like this ever happening to them, and insulate from hardships in a blanket of money. Don't romanticize poverty or hardship. Most people who are in the middle of it dream of nothing but ending it.

Yeah, the idea that I'm going to let my child suffer because other people in the world have it tough is asinine.

I mean, if my kid's school has a bunch of non-white kids whose parents are doctors, diplomats, college professors etc., that's cool. But if it was 95%+ white, I'd be fine, too. I'm not interested in having my kids be part of some social experiment at the cost of their education.

Wow. I can’t believe someone is still using the phrase “social experiment” in this context. It’s both ridiculously cliche and rather offensive.

Do you honestly believe that your kid will not thrive — but will instead “suffer” — unless surrounded by children of the upper echelons of society?

NP. PP above responded to poster who said put your kid is predicaments where they will suffer, like walking 30 blocks, going to school hungry, etc..

If you define thrive as reaching their full academic potential like we do then no they won’t.

Ask any teacher in majority low performing school with a very small minority of high performing kids. The kids just cruise along because the teachers are all focused on helping the low performing kids. You don’t have to look far, happens in DC schools in upper elementary.