Mom speaking to child in another language during playdate

[Anonymous]

Haha. My Arab husband declares this “super rude”. Uh oh—there’s no one and final answer.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Wow. Our school community has lots of bilingual (and trilingual) families. It would never occur to me that speaking to eachother in their native tongue would be considered rude or a faux pas.

Well, now you know!

+1. In front of other people who don't speak the language actively excluding them? Yes, rude. Do people come from places with no manners? Wasn't there a thread about how rude it is to turn a back on someone recently and how in most cultures that is rude? This is the same thing.

Parents practicing OPOL are excluding the other parent all the time and somehow survive unscathed. It’s fine.

You sure about that? There's never been a single divorce in such families?

You don’t know why they divorce and it’s just as common in monolingual families.

I don’t understand 70% of conversation between my DH and my children, and it doesn’t bother me one bit.

Yes, if you feel a certain way that means everyone else feels the exact same way. Got it.

I’m just telling you a very common thing in bi and trilingual families.

And I'm just telling you that speaks very poorly of very common bi and trilingual families.

Why tho?

BECAUSE IT'S RUDE. You're basically saying that teaching your child to be bi or trilingual is more important to you than teaching them manners. And that speaks very poorly of bi and trilingual familes -- that they are raising rude children.

Hate to say it, but many people on this thread may not realize it's the norm to not speak in another language in front of those that don't understand it because they are from somewhere else. But that's the norm here. So now you know.

Sounds a lot like a white supremacist cultural norm to me...

There are non white people who actually have manners too, you know. The idea that only white people are educated in common courtesy is pretty racist.

Yes, but this isn't common courtesy. This is a very specific cultural belief that you think is universal because you think a specific white cultural habit is universal. And you're trying to impose it on families from other ethnic groups. Respecting that other people have different cultural beliefs is in fact common courtesy that you are lacking.

You're saying their are "ethnic groups" and "cultures" that specifically prioritize anti-social behavior? And that when these "ethnic groups" and "cultures" move to a DIFFERENT culture, the onus is on the the different culture to respect their belief--specifically when they've been called to socialize with them?

Please name these "ethnic groups" and "cultures" who prioritize rudeness. I'd really like to know the specific ones. I've visited with native people in dozens of countries and on every continent but Oceana. I've never encountered a "cultural belief" like this--but I admit I haven't experienced EVERY culture. Please let me know who the rude people are!

What’s rude and anti social is culture specific.

So let's be specific! What SPECFIC "ethnic groups" and "cultures" feel it is ok to have a conversation, right in front of someone you have invited into your home/been invited into their home, when you know they will not be able to understand? Which ethnic groups and cultures have this as part of their "culture?"

All these PPs that are so proud they are doing this (having conversations they know their guest/host can not understand) should be PROUDLY stating their "ethnic group" or "culture" right now! It's part of your CULTURE! Music? Nah! Food? Nah! Art? Nah! Being a jerk? Heck yeah! That's what your people are all about, right?

I actually think you're full of it. Your parents/grandparents, etc. would be ashamed of you if they knew.

I’m Armenian. My husband is Arab. I’ve also met French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian parents doing the same thing. What unites us is the desire to pass our languages to our children. None of us is bothered by a parent speaking their language to our child in front of us.

And you are saying that it is "part of" the Armenian, Arab, French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian culture to have conversations in front of your guest/host that you know they can not understand? I actually have some experience with many of the ones you listed--and very personal experience with two. My sister in law (married to my brother) is Russian--born, raised, and lived in Russia until her early 30s. She does not do this.
My high school boyfriend was American born to Chinese parents--his parents never spoke to him in their language in my presence.
Either the individuals you associate with are not indicative of the culture, or the ones I associate with do not.

Expectations on what language immigrant parents are supposed to speak to their children have changed since you were in high school. What unites us is not a single ethnicity but the desire to preserve our languages for our children.

You don't have to do that at the expense of manners.

We get it. People who are rude don't care what those around them think or feel. That's the point of manners, after all -- to be considerate of others. So convincing rude people that having manners matters is a waste of time -- they do not care.

But to others who honestly did not realize it is considered rude to speak a language that not everyone understands in a social setting -- now you know. You can adjust your behavior accordingly.

I love how you’re literally the only one feeling this way in a 11-page thread yet you’re trying to act like the head of the movement or a guide for the unwashed foreigners.

Uh, there are multiple posters on this thread who feel as I do. Unless there is only one other poster disguising their voice again and again. Not likely though.

I’ve just asked my Arab DH to settle this argument and he said he would admire a parent like this and it wouldn’t occur to him to feel offended.

Of course, he supports that I only speak Armenian to the children even though he only knows a few words in it.

Is this you: "I’m Armenian. My husband is Arab. I’ve also met French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian parents doing the same thing. What unites us is the desire to pass our languages to our children. None of us is bothered by a parent speaking their language to our child in front of us."

How in the world is it helpful to ask someone who does this whether it's okay? Of course he thinks it's okay. I'm the poster who said rude people don't care about manners. Of course they don't!!

It's not okay to a lot of people. There will always be rude people in the world. You and your friends and DH are some of them.

I am one of the rude people, teaching my kids my language is most important to me than your feelings.

*more

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I only speak English but DH and most his family are bilingual. At gatherings, if a few people are commenting back and forth in their language my MIL always makes a point to give a little translation like “they are fighting about the game again” and often will give a pointed look at which point her sons usually switch to English. I don’t mind not knowing but it’s clear that she finds it rude and I do notice and appreciate her efforts to include me.

I think if 2 adults in a group of adults are speaking a different language to each other it’s rude. I think of one of the adults turns and addresses his or her child in a different language , it’s not rude. Seems different. The child isn’t part of the conversation and no one is being excluded. A parent making an aside to his or her child is assumed to be more private - in fact I’d consider it rude if I made a quiet aside to my child and then someone else interjected or commented. Like, I’m addressing my child not you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Wow. Our school community has lots of bilingual (and trilingual) families. It would never occur to me that speaking to eachother in their native tongue would be considered rude or a faux pas.

Well, now you know!

+1. In front of other people who don't speak the language actively excluding them? Yes, rude. Do people come from places with no manners? Wasn't there a thread about how rude it is to turn a back on someone recently and how in most cultures that is rude? This is the same thing.

Parents practicing OPOL are excluding the other parent all the time and somehow survive unscathed. It’s fine.

You sure about that? There's never been a single divorce in such families?

You don’t know why they divorce and it’s just as common in monolingual families.

I don’t understand 70% of conversation between my DH and my children, and it doesn’t bother me one bit.

Yes, if you feel a certain way that means everyone else feels the exact same way. Got it.

I’m just telling you a very common thing in bi and trilingual families.

And I'm just telling you that speaks very poorly of very common bi and trilingual families.

Why tho?

BECAUSE IT'S RUDE. You're basically saying that teaching your child to be bi or trilingual is more important to you than teaching them manners. And that speaks very poorly of bi and trilingual familes -- that they are raising rude children.

Hate to say it, but many people on this thread may not realize it's the norm to not speak in another language in front of those that don't understand it because they are from somewhere else. But that's the norm here. So now you know.

Sounds a lot like a white supremacist cultural norm to me...

There are non white people who actually have manners too, you know. The idea that only white people are educated in common courtesy is pretty racist.

Yes, but this isn't common courtesy. This is a very specific cultural belief that you think is universal because you think a specific white cultural habit is universal. And you're trying to impose it on families from other ethnic groups. Respecting that other people have different cultural beliefs is in fact common courtesy that you are lacking.

You're saying their are "ethnic groups" and "cultures" that specifically prioritize anti-social behavior? And that when these "ethnic groups" and "cultures" move to a DIFFERENT culture, the onus is on the the different culture to respect their belief--specifically when they've been called to socialize with them?

Please name these "ethnic groups" and "cultures" who prioritize rudeness. I'd really like to know the specific ones. I've visited with native people in dozens of countries and on every continent but Oceana. I've never encountered a "cultural belief" like this--but I admit I haven't experienced EVERY culture. Please let me know who the rude people are!

What’s rude and anti social is culture specific.

So let's be specific! What SPECFIC "ethnic groups" and "cultures" feel it is ok to have a conversation, right in front of someone you have invited into your home/been invited into their home, when you know they will not be able to understand? Which ethnic groups and cultures have this as part of their "culture?"

All these PPs that are so proud they are doing this (having conversations they know their guest/host can not understand) should be PROUDLY stating their "ethnic group" or "culture" right now! It's part of your CULTURE! Music? Nah! Food? Nah! Art? Nah! Being a jerk? Heck yeah! That's what your people are all about, right?

I actually think you're full of it. Your parents/grandparents, etc. would be ashamed of you if they knew.

I’m Armenian. My husband is Arab. I’ve also met French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian parents doing the same thing. What unites us is the desire to pass our languages to our children. None of us is bothered by a parent speaking their language to our child in front of us.

And you are saying that it is "part of" the Armenian, Arab, French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian culture to have conversations in front of your guest/host that you know they can not understand? I actually have some experience with many of the ones you listed--and very personal experience with two. My sister in law (married to my brother) is Russian--born, raised, and lived in Russia until her early 30s. She does not do this.
My high school boyfriend was American born to Chinese parents--his parents never spoke to him in their language in my presence.
Either the individuals you associate with are not indicative of the culture, or the ones I associate with do not.

Expectations on what language immigrant parents are supposed to speak to their children have changed since you were in high school. What unites us is not a single ethnicity but the desire to preserve our languages for our children.

You don't have to do that at the expense of manners.

We get it. People who are rude don't care what those around them think or feel. That's the point of manners, after all -- to be considerate of others. So convincing rude people that having manners matters is a waste of time -- they do not care.

But to others who honestly did not realize it is considered rude to speak a language that not everyone understands in a social setting -- now you know. You can adjust your behavior accordingly.

I love how you’re literally the only one feeling this way in a 11-page thread yet you’re trying to act like the head of the movement or a guide for the unwashed foreigners.

Uh, there are multiple posters on this thread who feel as I do. Unless there is only one other poster disguising their voice again and again. Not likely though.

I’ve just asked my Arab DH to settle this argument and he said he would admire a parent like this and it wouldn’t occur to him to feel offended.

Of course, he supports that I only speak Armenian to the children even though he only knows a few words in it.

Is this you: "I’m Armenian. My husband is Arab. I’ve also met French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian parents doing the same thing. What unites us is the desire to pass our languages to our children. None of us is bothered by a parent speaking their language to our child in front of us."

How in the world is it helpful to ask someone who does this whether it's okay? Of course he thinks it's okay. I'm the poster who said rude people don't care about manners. Of course they don't!!

It's not okay to a lot of people. There will always be rude people in the world. You and your friends and DH are some of them.

I am one of the rude people, teaching my kids my language is most important to me than your feelings.

I get it. Like I said, there are always going to be rude people in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I only speak English but DH and most his family are bilingual. At gatherings, if a few people are commenting back and forth in their language my MIL always makes a point to give a little translation like “they are fighting about the game again” and often will give a pointed look at which point her sons usually switch to English. I don’t mind not knowing but it’s clear that she finds it rude and I do notice and appreciate her efforts to include me.

I think if 2 adults in a group of adults are speaking a different language to each other it’s rude. I think of one of the adults turns and addresses his or her child in a different language , it’s not rude. Seems different. The child isn’t part of the conversation and no one is being excluded. A parent making an aside to his or her child is assumed to be more private - in fact I’d consider it rude if I made a quiet aside to my child and then someone else interjected or commented. Like, I’m addressing my child not you.

That makes sense to me. And a short aside would not seem strange or rude to me at all, especially if one of the speakers is a child. I think it would be uncomfortable if mom and daughter were having long one on one convos the whole play date that excluded the other child but that would be weird in English, too.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Our school community has lots of bilingual (and trilingual) families. It would never occur to me that speaking to eachother in their native tongue would be considered rude or a faux pas.

Well, now you know!

+1. In front of other people who don't speak the language actively excluding them? Yes, rude. Do people come from places with no manners? Wasn't there a thread about how rude it is to turn a back on someone recently and how in most cultures that is rude? This is the same thing.

Parents practicing OPOL are excluding the other parent all the time and somehow survive unscathed. It’s fine.

You sure about that? There's never been a single divorce in such families?

You don’t know why they divorce and it’s just as common in monolingual families.

I don’t understand 70% of conversation between my DH and my children, and it doesn’t bother me one bit.

Yes, if you feel a certain way that means everyone else feels the exact same way. Got it.

I’m just telling you a very common thing in bi and trilingual families.

And I'm just telling you that speaks very poorly of very common bi and trilingual families.

Why tho?

BECAUSE IT'S RUDE. You're basically saying that teaching your child to be bi or trilingual is more important to you than teaching them manners. And that speaks very poorly of bi and trilingual familes -- that they are raising rude children.

Hate to say it, but many people on this thread may not realize it's the norm to not speak in another language in front of those that don't understand it because they are from somewhere else. But that's the norm here. So now you know.

Sounds a lot like a white supremacist cultural norm to me...

There are non white people who actually have manners too, you know. The idea that only white people are educated in common courtesy is pretty racist.

Yes, but this isn't common courtesy. This is a very specific cultural belief that you think is universal because you think a specific white cultural habit is universal. And you're trying to impose it on families from other ethnic groups. Respecting that other people have different cultural beliefs is in fact common courtesy that you are lacking.

You're saying their are "ethnic groups" and "cultures" that specifically prioritize anti-social behavior? And that when these "ethnic groups" and "cultures" move to a DIFFERENT culture, the onus is on the the different culture to respect their belief--specifically when they've been called to socialize with them?

Please name these "ethnic groups" and "cultures" who prioritize rudeness. I'd really like to know the specific ones. I've visited with native people in dozens of countries and on every continent but Oceana. I've never encountered a "cultural belief" like this--but I admit I haven't experienced EVERY culture. Please let me know who the rude people are!

What’s rude and anti social is culture specific.

So let's be specific! What SPECFIC "ethnic groups" and "cultures" feel it is ok to have a conversation, right in front of someone you have invited into your home/been invited into their home, when you know they will not be able to understand? Which ethnic groups and cultures have this as part of their "culture?"

All these PPs that are so proud they are doing this (having conversations they know their guest/host can not understand) should be PROUDLY stating their "ethnic group" or "culture" right now! It's part of your CULTURE! Music? Nah! Food? Nah! Art? Nah! Being a jerk? Heck yeah! That's what your people are all about, right?

I actually think you're full of it. Your parents/grandparents, etc. would be ashamed of you if they knew.

I’m Armenian. My husband is Arab. I’ve also met French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian parents doing the same thing. What unites us is the desire to pass our languages to our children. None of us is bothered by a parent speaking their language to our child in front of us.

And you are saying that it is "part of" the Armenian, Arab, French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian culture to have conversations in front of your guest/host that you know they can not understand? I actually have some experience with many of the ones you listed--and very personal experience with two. My sister in law (married to my brother) is Russian--born, raised, and lived in Russia until her early 30s. She does not do this.
My high school boyfriend was American born to Chinese parents--his parents never spoke to him in their language in my presence.
Either the individuals you associate with are not indicative of the culture, or the ones I associate with do not.

Expectations on what language immigrant parents are supposed to speak to their children have changed since you were in high school. What unites us is not a single ethnicity but the desire to preserve our languages for our children.

You don't have to do that at the expense of manners.

We get it. People who are rude don't care what those around them think or feel. That's the point of manners, after all -- to be considerate of others. So convincing rude people that having manners matters is a waste of time -- they do not care.

But to others who honestly did not realize it is considered rude to speak a language that not everyone understands in a social setting -- now you know. You can adjust your behavior accordingly.

I love how you’re literally the only one feeling this way in a 11-page thread yet you’re trying to act like the head of the movement or a guide for the unwashed foreigners.

Uh, there are multiple posters on this thread who feel as I do. Unless there is only one other poster disguising their voice again and again. Not likely though.

I’ve just asked my Arab DH to settle this argument and he said he would admire a parent like this and it wouldn’t occur to him to feel offended.

Of course, he supports that I only speak Armenian to the children even though he only knows a few words in it.

Is this you: "I’m Armenian. My husband is Arab. I’ve also met French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian parents doing the same thing. What unites us is the desire to pass our languages to our children. None of us is bothered by a parent speaking their language to our child in front of us."

How in the world is it helpful to ask someone who does this whether it's okay? Of course he thinks it's okay. I'm the poster who said rude people don't care about manners. Of course they don't!!

It's not okay to a lot of people. There will always be rude people in the world. You and your friends and DH are some of them.

Yes. It is I. His opinion is helpful because he doesn't understand the language I speak to our children in front of him. It does not offend him and he does not find it rude. As a recipient of this behavior, he has every right to an opinion, and his opinion is that he is not offended.

It may not be okay to a lot of people. It's also okay to a lot of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Our school community has lots of bilingual (and trilingual) families. It would never occur to me that speaking to eachother in their native tongue would be considered rude or a faux pas.

Well, now you know!

+1. In front of other people who don't speak the language actively excluding them? Yes, rude. Do people come from places with no manners? Wasn't there a thread about how rude it is to turn a back on someone recently and how in most cultures that is rude? This is the same thing.

Parents practicing OPOL are excluding the other parent all the time and somehow survive unscathed. It’s fine.

You sure about that? There's never been a single divorce in such families?

You don’t know why they divorce and it’s just as common in monolingual families.

I don’t understand 70% of conversation between my DH and my children, and it doesn’t bother me one bit.

Yes, if you feel a certain way that means everyone else feels the exact same way. Got it.

I’m just telling you a very common thing in bi and trilingual families.

And I'm just telling you that speaks very poorly of very common bi and trilingual families.

Why tho?

BECAUSE IT'S RUDE. You're basically saying that teaching your child to be bi or trilingual is more important to you than teaching them manners. And that speaks very poorly of bi and trilingual familes -- that they are raising rude children.

Hate to say it, but many people on this thread may not realize it's the norm to not speak in another language in front of those that don't understand it because they are from somewhere else. But that's the norm here. So now you know.

Sounds a lot like a white supremacist cultural norm to me...

There are non white people who actually have manners too, you know. The idea that only white people are educated in common courtesy is pretty racist.

Yes, but this isn't common courtesy. This is a very specific cultural belief that you think is universal because you think a specific white cultural habit is universal. And you're trying to impose it on families from other ethnic groups. Respecting that other people have different cultural beliefs is in fact common courtesy that you are lacking.

You're saying their are "ethnic groups" and "cultures" that specifically prioritize anti-social behavior? And that when these "ethnic groups" and "cultures" move to a DIFFERENT culture, the onus is on the the different culture to respect their belief--specifically when they've been called to socialize with them?

Please name these "ethnic groups" and "cultures" who prioritize rudeness. I'd really like to know the specific ones. I've visited with native people in dozens of countries and on every continent but Oceana. I've never encountered a "cultural belief" like this--but I admit I haven't experienced EVERY culture. Please let me know who the rude people are!

What’s rude and anti social is culture specific.

So let's be specific! What SPECFIC "ethnic groups" and "cultures" feel it is ok to have a conversation, right in front of someone you have invited into your home/been invited into their home, when you know they will not be able to understand? Which ethnic groups and cultures have this as part of their "culture?"

All these PPs that are so proud they are doing this (having conversations they know their guest/host can not understand) should be PROUDLY stating their "ethnic group" or "culture" right now! It's part of your CULTURE! Music? Nah! Food? Nah! Art? Nah! Being a jerk? Heck yeah! That's what your people are all about, right?

I actually think you're full of it. Your parents/grandparents, etc. would be ashamed of you if they knew.

I’m Armenian. My husband is Arab. I’ve also met French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian parents doing the same thing. What unites us is the desire to pass our languages to our children. None of us is bothered by a parent speaking their language to our child in front of us.

And you are saying that it is "part of" the Armenian, Arab, French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian culture to have conversations in front of your guest/host that you know they can not understand? I actually have some experience with many of the ones you listed--and very personal experience with two. My sister in law (married to my brother) is Russian--born, raised, and lived in Russia until her early 30s. She does not do this.
My high school boyfriend was American born to Chinese parents--his parents never spoke to him in their language in my presence.
Either the individuals you associate with are not indicative of the culture, or the ones I associate with do not.

Expectations on what language immigrant parents are supposed to speak to their children have changed since you were in high school. What unites us is not a single ethnicity but the desire to preserve our languages for our children.

You don't have to do that at the expense of manners.

We get it. People who are rude don't care what those around them think or feel. That's the point of manners, after all -- to be considerate of others. So convincing rude people that having manners matters is a waste of time -- they do not care.

But to others who honestly did not realize it is considered rude to speak a language that not everyone understands in a social setting -- now you know. You can adjust your behavior accordingly.

I love how you’re literally the only one feeling this way in a 11-page thread yet you’re trying to act like the head of the movement or a guide for the unwashed foreigners.

Uh, there are multiple posters on this thread who feel as I do. Unless there is only one other poster disguising their voice again and again. Not likely though.

I’ve just asked my Arab DH to settle this argument and he said he would admire a parent like this and it wouldn’t occur to him to feel offended.

Of course, he supports that I only speak Armenian to the children even though he only knows a few words in it.

Wow. So you are saying that not only are Arabs a culture that encourages having private conversations directly in front of their guests/hosts, but they are also self proclaimed "argument settlers?" Like we should think just because he is Arab that he knows everything and he will "settle it?"

I really don't think all Arabs are as despicable as you are portraying your husband to be. You probably shouldn't have even said that.

When did I proclaim them to be argument settlers? He's on the receiving end of this behavior so surely he has as much right to an opinion as you do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have one friend who is German (moved here as a young adult for a job and married an American). She speaks to her kids in only German, she says it’s the only way they’ll really learn it. Even in front of me. I like it, I always assume she is saying something really deep and thoughtful and calm. Sometimes I’ll ask her what she told her kid and she’ll be like “I told her if she can’t share the snack with her older brother I’m taking it away and she whined and I told her to be quiet or else” lol.

If you like it, that's between the two of you. It's rude for her to presume that all of her friends will "like it."

Those who don't will get weeded out. It's better to be around like-minded people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I only speak English but DH and most his family are bilingual. At gatherings, if a few people are commenting back and forth in their language my MIL always makes a point to give a little translation like “they are fighting about the game again” and often will give a pointed look at which point her sons usually switch to English. I don’t mind not knowing but it’s clear that she finds it rude and I do notice and appreciate her efforts to include me.

You're an adult and you are not trying to speak their language. The rules are different for you. You need to be included in conversations in a way that small children do not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I only speak English but DH and most his family are bilingual. At gatherings, if a few people are commenting back and forth in their language my MIL always makes a point to give a little translation like “they are fighting about the game again” and often will give a pointed look at which point her sons usually switch to English. I don’t mind not knowing but it’s clear that she finds it rude and I do notice and appreciate her efforts to include me.

I think if 2 adults in a group of adults are speaking a different language to each other it’s rude. I think of one of the adults turns and addresses his or her child in a different language , it’s not rude. Seems different. The child isn’t part of the conversation and no one is being excluded. A parent making an aside to his or her child is assumed to be more private - in fact I’d consider it rude if I made a quiet aside to my child and then someone else interjected or commented. Like, I’m addressing my child not you.

It's also different because the parent is trying to raise their child, which they have every right to do. In a group of several adults, no one is trying to raise anyone. A child is only communicating with their parent, not the rest of the group, and you are quite correct that no one else needs to share a conversation between a parent and a child.

[Anonymous]

Yes, that’s rude in my culture

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I only speak English but DH and most his family are bilingual. At gatherings, if a few people are commenting back and forth in their language my MIL always makes a point to give a little translation like “they are fighting about the game again” and often will give a pointed look at which point her sons usually switch to English. I don’t mind not knowing but it’s clear that she finds it rude and I do notice and appreciate her efforts to include me.

I think if 2 adults in a group of adults are speaking a different language to each other it’s rude. I think of one of the adults turns and addresses his or her child in a different language , it’s not rude. Seems different. The child isn’t part of the conversation and no one is being excluded. A parent making an aside to his or her child is assumed to be more private - in fact I’d consider it rude if I made a quiet aside to my child and then someone else interjected or commented. Like, I’m addressing my child not you.

It's also different because the parent is trying to raise their child, which they have every right to do. In a group of several adults, no one is trying to raise anyone. A child is only communicating with their parent, not the rest of the group, and you are quite correct that no one else needs to share a conversation between a parent and a child.

This is it in a nutshell. Some people are too nosy or paranoid and think every conversation in a foreign language is malicious gossip or something. Anyway, once the kids hit the double digits, they just want to speak English and will reply in English, regardless of what language the mom is nagging them in. IME these conversations are usually just the mom nagging the kid about something and nothing interesting or worth eavesdropping on. If OP is so concerned, she can record them and upload audio files into translation software.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Wow. Our school community has lots of bilingual (and trilingual) families. It would never occur to me that speaking to eachother in their native tongue would be considered rude or a faux pas.

Well, now you know!

+1. In front of other people who don't speak the language actively excluding them? Yes, rude. Do people come from places with no manners? Wasn't there a thread about how rude it is to turn a back on someone recently and how in most cultures that is rude? This is the same thing.

Parents practicing OPOL are excluding the other parent all the time and somehow survive unscathed. It’s fine.

You sure about that? There's never been a single divorce in such families?

You don’t know why they divorce and it’s just as common in monolingual families.

I don’t understand 70% of conversation between my DH and my children, and it doesn’t bother me one bit.

Yes, if you feel a certain way that means everyone else feels the exact same way. Got it.

I’m just telling you a very common thing in bi and trilingual families.

And I'm just telling you that speaks very poorly of very common bi and trilingual families.

Why tho?

BECAUSE IT'S RUDE. You're basically saying that teaching your child to be bi or trilingual is more important to you than teaching them manners. And that speaks very poorly of bi and trilingual familes -- that they are raising rude children.

Hate to say it, but many people on this thread may not realize it's the norm to not speak in another language in front of those that don't understand it because they are from somewhere else. But that's the norm here. So now you know.

Sounds a lot like a white supremacist cultural norm to me...

There are non white people who actually have manners too, you know. The idea that only white people are educated in common courtesy is pretty racist.

Yes, but this isn't common courtesy. This is a very specific cultural belief that you think is universal because you think a specific white cultural habit is universal. And you're trying to impose it on families from other ethnic groups. Respecting that other people have different cultural beliefs is in fact common courtesy that you are lacking.

You're saying their are "ethnic groups" and "cultures" that specifically prioritize anti-social behavior? And that when these "ethnic groups" and "cultures" move to a DIFFERENT culture, the onus is on the the different culture to respect their belief--specifically when they've been called to socialize with them?

Please name these "ethnic groups" and "cultures" who prioritize rudeness. I'd really like to know the specific ones. I've visited with native people in dozens of countries and on every continent but Oceana. I've never encountered a "cultural belief" like this--but I admit I haven't experienced EVERY culture. Please let me know who the rude people are!

What’s rude and anti social is culture specific.

So let's be specific! What SPECFIC "ethnic groups" and "cultures" feel it is ok to have a conversation, right in front of someone you have invited into your home/been invited into their home, when you know they will not be able to understand? Which ethnic groups and cultures have this as part of their "culture?"

All these PPs that are so proud they are doing this (having conversations they know their guest/host can not understand) should be PROUDLY stating their "ethnic group" or "culture" right now! It's part of your CULTURE! Music? Nah! Food? Nah! Art? Nah! Being a jerk? Heck yeah! That's what your people are all about, right?

I actually think you're full of it. Your parents/grandparents, etc. would be ashamed of you if they knew.

I’m Armenian. My husband is Arab. I’ve also met French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian parents doing the same thing. What unites us is the desire to pass our languages to our children. None of us is bothered by a parent speaking their language to our child in front of us.

And you are saying that it is "part of" the Armenian, Arab, French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian culture to have conversations in front of your guest/host that you know they can not understand? I actually have some experience with many of the ones you listed--and very personal experience with two. My sister in law (married to my brother) is Russian--born, raised, and lived in Russia until her early 30s. She does not do this.
My high school boyfriend was American born to Chinese parents--his parents never spoke to him in their language in my presence.
Either the individuals you associate with are not indicative of the culture, or the ones I associate with do not.

Expectations on what language immigrant parents are supposed to speak to their children have changed since you were in high school. What unites us is not a single ethnicity but the desire to preserve our languages for our children.

You don't have to do that at the expense of manners.

We get it. People who are rude don't care what those around them think or feel. That's the point of manners, after all -- to be considerate of others. So convincing rude people that having manners matters is a waste of time -- they do not care.

But to others who honestly did not realize it is considered rude to speak a language that not everyone understands in a social setting -- now you know. You can adjust your behavior accordingly.

I love how you’re literally the only one feeling this way in a 11-page thread yet you’re trying to act like the head of the movement or a guide for the unwashed foreigners.

Uh, there are multiple posters on this thread who feel as I do. Unless there is only one other poster disguising their voice again and again. Not likely though.

I’ve just asked my Arab DH to settle this argument and he said he would admire a parent like this and it wouldn’t occur to him to feel offended.

Of course, he supports that I only speak Armenian to the children even though he only knows a few words in it.

Is this you: "I’m Armenian. My husband is Arab. I’ve also met French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian parents doing the same thing. What unites us is the desire to pass our languages to our children. None of us is bothered by a parent speaking their language to our child in front of us."

How in the world is it helpful to ask someone who does this whether it's okay? Of course he thinks it's okay. I'm the poster who said rude people don't care about manners. Of course they don't!!

It's not okay to a lot of people. There will always be rude people in the world. You and your friends and DH are some of them.

Yes. It is I. His opinion is helpful because he doesn't understand the language I speak to our children in front of him. It does not offend him and he does not find it rude. As a recipient of this behavior, he has every right to an opinion, and his opinion is that he is not offended.

It may not be okay to a lot of people. It's also okay to a lot of people.

Do you not understand that what you agree to do in your home with your spouse is your own business and how you treat others outside your home is different? Go ahead and do what you want. This conversation has run its course. You don't care if your behavior is considered rude to some people. Some people are giving you a fake smile while thinking "She is so rude!" But you don't care, so so what?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Wow. Our school community has lots of bilingual (and trilingual) families. It would never occur to me that speaking to eachother in their native tongue would be considered rude or a faux pas.

Well, now you know!

+1. In front of other people who don't speak the language actively excluding them? Yes, rude. Do people come from places with no manners? Wasn't there a thread about how rude it is to turn a back on someone recently and how in most cultures that is rude? This is the same thing.

Parents practicing OPOL are excluding the other parent all the time and somehow survive unscathed. It’s fine.

You sure about that? There's never been a single divorce in such families?

You don’t know why they divorce and it’s just as common in monolingual families.

I don’t understand 70% of conversation between my DH and my children, and it doesn’t bother me one bit.

Yes, if you feel a certain way that means everyone else feels the exact same way. Got it.

I’m just telling you a very common thing in bi and trilingual families.

And I'm just telling you that speaks very poorly of very common bi and trilingual families.

Why tho?

BECAUSE IT'S RUDE. You're basically saying that teaching your child to be bi or trilingual is more important to you than teaching them manners. And that speaks very poorly of bi and trilingual familes -- that they are raising rude children.

Hate to say it, but many people on this thread may not realize it's the norm to not speak in another language in front of those that don't understand it because they are from somewhere else. But that's the norm here. So now you know.

Sounds a lot like a white supremacist cultural norm to me...

There are non white people who actually have manners too, you know. The idea that only white people are educated in common courtesy is pretty racist.

Yes, but this isn't common courtesy. This is a very specific cultural belief that you think is universal because you think a specific white cultural habit is universal. And you're trying to impose it on families from other ethnic groups. Respecting that other people have different cultural beliefs is in fact common courtesy that you are lacking.

You're saying their are "ethnic groups" and "cultures" that specifically prioritize anti-social behavior? And that when these "ethnic groups" and "cultures" move to a DIFFERENT culture, the onus is on the the different culture to respect their belief--specifically when they've been called to socialize with them?

Please name these "ethnic groups" and "cultures" who prioritize rudeness. I'd really like to know the specific ones. I've visited with native people in dozens of countries and on every continent but Oceana. I've never encountered a "cultural belief" like this--but I admit I haven't experienced EVERY culture. Please let me know who the rude people are!

What’s rude and anti social is culture specific.

So let's be specific! What SPECFIC "ethnic groups" and "cultures" feel it is ok to have a conversation, right in front of someone you have invited into your home/been invited into their home, when you know they will not be able to understand? Which ethnic groups and cultures have this as part of their "culture?"

All these PPs that are so proud they are doing this (having conversations they know their guest/host can not understand) should be PROUDLY stating their "ethnic group" or "culture" right now! It's part of your CULTURE! Music? Nah! Food? Nah! Art? Nah! Being a jerk? Heck yeah! That's what your people are all about, right?

I actually think you're full of it. Your parents/grandparents, etc. would be ashamed of you if they knew.

I’m Armenian. My husband is Arab. I’ve also met French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian parents doing the same thing. What unites us is the desire to pass our languages to our children. None of us is bothered by a parent speaking their language to our child in front of us.

And you are saying that it is "part of" the Armenian, Arab, French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian culture to have conversations in front of your guest/host that you know they can not understand? I actually have some experience with many of the ones you listed--and very personal experience with two. My sister in law (married to my brother) is Russian--born, raised, and lived in Russia until her early 30s. She does not do this.
My high school boyfriend was American born to Chinese parents--his parents never spoke to him in their language in my presence.
Either the individuals you associate with are not indicative of the culture, or the ones I associate with do not.

Expectations on what language immigrant parents are supposed to speak to their children have changed since you were in high school. What unites us is not a single ethnicity but the desire to preserve our languages for our children.

You don't have to do that at the expense of manners.

We get it. People who are rude don't care what those around them think or feel. That's the point of manners, after all -- to be considerate of others. So convincing rude people that having manners matters is a waste of time -- they do not care.

But to others who honestly did not realize it is considered rude to speak a language that not everyone understands in a social setting -- now you know. You can adjust your behavior accordingly.

I love how you’re literally the only one feeling this way in a 11-page thread yet you’re trying to act like the head of the movement or a guide for the unwashed foreigners.

Uh, there are multiple posters on this thread who feel as I do. Unless there is only one other poster disguising their voice again and again. Not likely though.

I’ve just asked my Arab DH to settle this argument and he said he would admire a parent like this and it wouldn’t occur to him to feel offended.

Of course, he supports that I only speak Armenian to the children even though he only knows a few words in it.

Is this you: "I’m Armenian. My husband is Arab. I’ve also met French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian parents doing the same thing. What unites us is the desire to pass our languages to our children. None of us is bothered by a parent speaking their language to our child in front of us."

How in the world is it helpful to ask someone who does this whether it's okay? Of course he thinks it's okay. I'm the poster who said rude people don't care about manners. Of course they don't!!

It's not okay to a lot of people. There will always be rude people in the world. You and your friends and DH are some of them.

Yes. It is I. His opinion is helpful because he doesn't understand the language I speak to our children in front of him. It does not offend him and he does not find it rude. As a recipient of this behavior, he has every right to an opinion, and his opinion is that he is not offended.

It may not be okay to a lot of people. It's also okay to a lot of people.

Do you not understand that what you agree to do in your home with your spouse is your own business and how you treat others outside your home is different? Go ahead and do what you want. This conversation has run its course. You don't care if your behavior is considered rude to some people. Some people are giving you a fake smile while thinking "She is so rude!" But you don't care, so so what?

Did we really have to trade barbs for 13 pages for you to give me your blessings to do what I want? I mean couldn't you just have started with this?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Our school community has lots of bilingual (and trilingual) families. It would never occur to me that speaking to eachother in their native tongue would be considered rude or a faux pas.

Well, now you know!

+1. In front of other people who don't speak the language actively excluding them? Yes, rude. Do people come from places with no manners? Wasn't there a thread about how rude it is to turn a back on someone recently and how in most cultures that is rude? This is the same thing.

Parents practicing OPOL are excluding the other parent all the time and somehow survive unscathed. It’s fine.

You sure about that? There's never been a single divorce in such families?

You don’t know why they divorce and it’s just as common in monolingual families.

I don’t understand 70% of conversation between my DH and my children, and it doesn’t bother me one bit.

Yes, if you feel a certain way that means everyone else feels the exact same way. Got it.

I’m just telling you a very common thing in bi and trilingual families.

And I'm just telling you that speaks very poorly of very common bi and trilingual families.

Why tho?

BECAUSE IT'S RUDE. You're basically saying that teaching your child to be bi or trilingual is more important to you than teaching them manners. And that speaks very poorly of bi and trilingual familes -- that they are raising rude children.

Hate to say it, but many people on this thread may not realize it's the norm to not speak in another language in front of those that don't understand it because they are from somewhere else. But that's the norm here. So now you know.

Sounds a lot like a white supremacist cultural norm to me...

There are non white people who actually have manners too, you know. The idea that only white people are educated in common courtesy is pretty racist.

Yes, but this isn't common courtesy. This is a very specific cultural belief that you think is universal because you think a specific white cultural habit is universal. And you're trying to impose it on families from other ethnic groups. Respecting that other people have different cultural beliefs is in fact common courtesy that you are lacking.

You're saying their are "ethnic groups" and "cultures" that specifically prioritize anti-social behavior? And that when these "ethnic groups" and "cultures" move to a DIFFERENT culture, the onus is on the the different culture to respect their belief--specifically when they've been called to socialize with them?

Please name these "ethnic groups" and "cultures" who prioritize rudeness. I'd really like to know the specific ones. I've visited with native people in dozens of countries and on every continent but Oceana. I've never encountered a "cultural belief" like this--but I admit I haven't experienced EVERY culture. Please let me know who the rude people are!

What’s rude and anti social is culture specific.

So let's be specific! What SPECFIC "ethnic groups" and "cultures" feel it is ok to have a conversation, right in front of someone you have invited into your home/been invited into their home, when you know they will not be able to understand? Which ethnic groups and cultures have this as part of their "culture?"

All these PPs that are so proud they are doing this (having conversations they know their guest/host can not understand) should be PROUDLY stating their "ethnic group" or "culture" right now! It's part of your CULTURE! Music? Nah! Food? Nah! Art? Nah! Being a jerk? Heck yeah! That's what your people are all about, right?

I actually think you're full of it. Your parents/grandparents, etc. would be ashamed of you if they knew.

I’m Armenian. My husband is Arab. I’ve also met French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian parents doing the same thing. What unites us is the desire to pass our languages to our children. None of us is bothered by a parent speaking their language to our child in front of us.

And you are saying that it is "part of" the Armenian, Arab, French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian culture to have conversations in front of your guest/host that you know they can not understand? I actually have some experience with many of the ones you listed--and very personal experience with two. My sister in law (married to my brother) is Russian--born, raised, and lived in Russia until her early 30s. She does not do this.
My high school boyfriend was American born to Chinese parents--his parents never spoke to him in their language in my presence.
Either the individuals you associate with are not indicative of the culture, or the ones I associate with do not.

Expectations on what language immigrant parents are supposed to speak to their children have changed since you were in high school. What unites us is not a single ethnicity but the desire to preserve our languages for our children.

You don't have to do that at the expense of manners.

We get it. People who are rude don't care what those around them think or feel. That's the point of manners, after all -- to be considerate of others. So convincing rude people that having manners matters is a waste of time -- they do not care.

But to others who honestly did not realize it is considered rude to speak a language that not everyone understands in a social setting -- now you know. You can adjust your behavior accordingly.

I love how you’re literally the only one feeling this way in a 11-page thread yet you’re trying to act like the head of the movement or a guide for the unwashed foreigners.

Uh, there are multiple posters on this thread who feel as I do. Unless there is only one other poster disguising their voice again and again. Not likely though.

I’ve just asked my Arab DH to settle this argument and he said he would admire a parent like this and it wouldn’t occur to him to feel offended.

Of course, he supports that I only speak Armenian to the children even though he only knows a few words in it.

Is this you: "I’m Armenian. My husband is Arab. I’ve also met French, Russian, Turkish, Chinese and Colombian parents doing the same thing. What unites us is the desire to pass our languages to our children. None of us is bothered by a parent speaking their language to our child in front of us."

How in the world is it helpful to ask someone who does this whether it's okay? Of course he thinks it's okay. I'm the poster who said rude people don't care about manners. Of course they don't!!

It's not okay to a lot of people. There will always be rude people in the world. You and your friends and DH are some of them.

Yes. It is I. His opinion is helpful because he doesn't understand the language I speak to our children in front of him. It does not offend him and he does not find it rude. As a recipient of this behavior, he has every right to an opinion, and his opinion is that he is not offended.

It may not be okay to a lot of people. It's also okay to a lot of people.

Do you not understand that what you agree to do in your home with your spouse is your own business and how you treat others outside your home is different? Go ahead and do what you want. This conversation has run its course. You don't care if your behavior is considered rude to some people. Some people are giving you a fake smile while thinking "She is so rude!" But you don't care, so so what?

Did we really have to trade barbs for 13 pages for you to give me your blessings to do what I want? I mean couldn't you just have started with this?

You've always been free to go.