Cops in TX tackle & block desperate parents, while they let shooter rampage thru the school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There were no police in the building … the cops were trying to negotiate with him for an hour.

I'm trying to understand the logistics here. How were they negotiating with him? Yelling from outside the building to inside the building? Did they have phone communication with him?

An hour this went on. Do you know how many kids he killed in under 10 minutes?. They needed to get in there and take him out and if they didn't have the balls to do it they should have at least let the parents in to do their jobs

Did he go classroom to classroom or stay in one classroom?

1 classroom. All 19 kids and 2 teachers were from the same class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If cops were getting kids out of that building safely then why were parents screaming to go into rescue their own children?

I've got no idea of what was really going on and, based on the minimal details provided here, neither does anyone else. But, accepting your description of the event, it's because if I'm a parent in this situation, I'm concerned about *my* kid being safe and I don't give a damn about the rest of the people in the area until my kid is safe. And if that gets other people killed, I'll feel guilty about it later.

No police were getting their kids out and ignoring all the other kids while keeping other parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Absolutely despicable.

So you actually think they should have let her go in?

Ideally, the police keep the public out and then go into the building and deal with the shooter, that's current thinking on what to do in these situations. That's not DCUM experts, that's police experts. T his is easily Googleable, but here's a couple sources (https://www.theiacp.org/sites/default/files/2021-07/ActiveShooter2018-UpdatedFormat%2007.16.2021_0.pdf, https://www.baltimorecityschools.org/sites/default/files/inline-files/10-18_ActiveShooter.pdf, https://mcp.maryland.gov/Directive%20Manual/13-100.pdf).

In the absence of police doing what they should do, then yes, parents should go in and try. As a father, my duty is to keep my child safe. If my kid is in a building where someone is shooting kids and no one better trained or equipped than I am is able or willing to help, then I go in and do what I can. Same as a burning building. That's the job when you're a parent, even if it might get you killed.

Do we know that there was no law enforcement inside the building as these officers were keeping parents out? Serious question. I'm not trying to stir things up, I just haven't heard anything clear on that point.

Anyone? This whole part of the incident turns on that question. If some cops are outside, keeping civilians out while other cops are on the inside; it's a *completely* different scenario than if cops are outside keeping civilians out while nobody is even trying to do anything about the shooter.

Well, so far we have DPS giving conflicting reports about the resource officer (being there, engaging with the shooter, and their agency interviewing the resource officer) hours apart today. I think it's safe to say they're disorganized and don't yet know what's true themselves at best, a pack of cowardly liars trying to cover their behinds at worst. So I'd take anything they say about where officers were with a grain of salt. At the press conference today, the DPS said he wrecked his truck, then spent 12 minutes shooting at people near the school and the building (as I understood him) and getting into the school, but not interacting with police because there were none present. Four minutes after getting inside the school, police arrived and went in, they shot at each other, police were wounded and retreated. They set up a perimeter, threatened and restrained parents to prevent them from going in, did some strategery, and CBP went in after approximately 40-60 minutes and killed the shooter.

People there reported that some police went in, seemingly acting as individuals rather than with the department, to save the kids important to them and not near the shooter. One of the restrained parents seems to have made it in and saved her child. An interview with someone in the state police (I think) seemed to confirm that random officers went inside to remove select children.

The press conference didn't provide much info, didn't give a timeline, didn't say why the police waited so long to go in, and conflicted with other official statements previously given. He did say the authorities tried to negotiate with the gunman. Not sure what that means, and he didn't explain what he means by "negotiate."

Basically, it's a clusterf**k. Incompetence mixed with deceit and cowboy wannabes trying to hold onto power and not have everyone hate them. Between the lies and misunderstandings, it's going to be hard to sort this out.

Thanks for this. Sounds like we don't really know what happened, and we don't whether our lack of knowledge is because of confusion, deceit, or something in between.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There were no police in the building … the cops were trying to negotiate with him for an hour.

I'm trying to understand the logistics here. How were they negotiating with him? Yelling from outside the building to inside the building? Did they have phone communication with him?

An hour this went on. Do you know how many kids he killed in under 10 minutes?. They needed to get in there and take him out and if they didn't have the balls to do it they should have at least let the parents in to do their jobs

Did he go classroom to classroom or stay in one classroom?

1 classroom. All 19 kids and 2 teachers were from the same class.

It was two adjoining classrooms with a door between. Per a clip of a surviving child recounting the experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If cops were getting kids out of that building safely then why were parents screaming to go into rescue their own children?

I've got no idea of what was really going on and, based on the minimal details provided here, neither does anyone else. But, accepting your description of the event, it's because if I'm a parent in this situation, I'm concerned about *my* kid being safe and I don't give a damn about the rest of the people in the area until my kid is safe. And if that gets other people killed, I'll feel guilty about it later.

No police were getting their kids out and ignoring all the other kids while keeping other parents.

You or someone keeps saying this, but I asked earlier whether there is any confirmation other than that ambiguous exchange between the reporting making that assertion and the state trooper spokesman talking a mile a minute who may or may not have confirmed it. I haven't seen any additional confirmation. Just re-assertion by people who want to believe the worst of the cops. Also, the unexplained logistics of how they're removing their own kids from a classroom held hostage by the shooter. (If that's the assertion.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Absolutely despicable.

So you actually think they should have let her go in?

Ideally, the police keep the public out and then go into the building and deal with the shooter, that's current thinking on what to do in these situations. That's not DCUM experts, that's police experts. T his is easily Googleable, but here's a couple sources (https://www.theiacp.org/sites/default/files/2021-07/ActiveShooter2018-UpdatedFormat%2007.16.2021_0.pdf, https://www.baltimorecityschools.org/sites/default/files/inline-files/10-18_ActiveShooter.pdf, https://mcp.maryland.gov/Directive%20Manual/13-100.pdf).

In the absence of police doing what they should do, then yes, parents should go in and try. As a father, my duty is to keep my child safe. If my kid is in a building where someone is shooting kids and no one better trained or equipped than I am is able or willing to help, then I go in and do what I can. Same as a burning building. That's the job when you're a parent, even if it might get you killed.

Do we know that there was no law enforcement inside the building as these officers were keeping parents out? Serious question. I'm not trying to stir things up, I just haven't heard anything clear on that point.

Anyone? This whole part of the incident turns on that question. If some cops are outside, keeping civilians out while other cops are on the inside; it's a *completely* different scenario than if cops are outside keeping civilians out while nobody is even trying to do anything about the shooter.

Well, so far we have DPS giving conflicting reports about the resource officer (being there, engaging with the shooter, and their agency interviewing the resource officer) hours apart today. I think it's safe to say they're disorganized and don't yet know what's true themselves at best, a pack of cowardly liars trying to cover their behinds at worst. So I'd take anything they say about where officers were with a grain of salt. At the press conference today, the DPS said he wrecked his truck, then spent 12 minutes shooting at people near the school and the building (as I understood him) and getting into the school, but not interacting with police because there were none present. Four minutes after getting inside the school, police arrived and went in, they shot at each other, police were wounded and retreated. They set up a perimeter, threatened and restrained parents to prevent them from going in, did some strategery, and CBP went in after approximately 40-60 minutes and killed the shooter.

People there reported that some police went in, seemingly acting as individuals rather than with the department, to save the kids important to them and not near the shooter. One of the restrained parents seems to have made it in and saved her child. An interview with someone in the state police (I think) seemed to confirm that random officers went inside to remove select children.

The press conference didn't provide much info, didn't give a timeline, didn't say why the police waited so long to go in, and conflicted with other official statements previously given. He did say the authorities tried to negotiate with the gunman. Not sure what that means, and he didn't explain what he means by "negotiate."

Basically, it's a clusterf**k. Incompetence mixed with deceit and cowboy wannabes trying to hold onto power and not have everyone hate them. Between the lies and misunderstandings, it's going to be hard to sort this out.

Actually, this makes sense based on witnesses (that he spent 12 minutes shooting at people), that officers engaged, were injured, then set up a perimeter to control the situation. The kid had been posting all over social media engaging with strangers so negotiating means just that - that the gunman was communicating with police. The media is always quick to want to post first, so it also makes sense that some details were incorrect.

This is all very tragic. So was the Vegas shooting and I don’t hear much about that anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There were no police in the building … the cops were trying to negotiate with him for an hour.

I'm trying to understand the logistics here. How were they negotiating with him? Yelling from outside the building to inside the building? Did they have phone communication with him?

An hour this went on. Do you know how many kids he killed in under 10 minutes?. They needed to get in there and take him out and if they didn't have the balls to do it they should have at least let the parents in to do their jobs

Did he go classroom to classroom or stay in one classroom?

1 classroom. All 19 kids and 2 teachers were from the same class.

So it sounds like he holed up there and massacred. Did he go in through that classroom’s outside door?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There were no police in the building … the cops were trying to negotiate with him for an hour.

I'm trying to understand the logistics here. How were they negotiating with him? Yelling from outside the building to inside the building? Did they have phone communication with him?

An hour this went on. Do you know how many kids he killed in under 10 minutes?. They needed to get in there and take him out and if they didn't have the balls to do it they should have at least let the parents in to do their jobs

Did he go classroom to classroom or stay in one classroom?

1 classroom. All 19 kids and 2 teachers were from the same class.

It was two adjoining classrooms with a door between. Per a clip of a surviving child recounting the experience.

So many security breaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Absolutely despicable.

So you actually think they should have let her go in?

Ideally, the police keep the public out and then go into the building and deal with the shooter, that's current thinking on what to do in these situations. That's not DCUM experts, that's police experts. T his is easily Googleable, but here's a couple sources (https://www.theiacp.org/sites/default/files/2021-07/ActiveShooter2018-UpdatedFormat%2007.16.2021_0.pdf, https://www.baltimorecityschools.org/sites/default/files/inline-files/10-18_ActiveShooter.pdf, https://mcp.maryland.gov/Directive%20Manual/13-100.pdf).

In the absence of police doing what they should do, then yes, parents should go in and try. As a father, my duty is to keep my child safe. If my kid is in a building where someone is shooting kids and no one better trained or equipped than I am is able or willing to help, then I go in and do what I can. Same as a burning building. That's the job when you're a parent, even if it might get you killed.

Do we know that there was no law enforcement inside the building as these officers were keeping parents out? Serious question. I'm not trying to stir things up, I just haven't heard anything clear on that point.

Anyone? This whole part of the incident turns on that question. If some cops are outside, keeping civilians out while other cops are on the inside; it's a *completely* different scenario than if cops are outside keeping civilians out while nobody is even trying to do anything about the shooter.

Well, so far we have DPS giving conflicting reports about the resource officer (being there, engaging with the shooter, and their agency interviewing the resource officer) hours apart today. I think it's safe to say they're disorganized and don't yet know what's true themselves at best, a pack of cowardly liars trying to cover their behinds at worst. So I'd take anything they say about where officers were with a grain of salt. At the press conference today, the DPS said he wrecked his truck, then spent 12 minutes shooting at people near the school and the building (as I understood him) and getting into the school, but not interacting with police because there were none present. Four minutes after getting inside the school, police arrived and went in, they shot at each other, police were wounded and retreated. They set up a perimeter, threatened and restrained parents to prevent them from going in, did some strategery, and CBP went in after approximately 40-60 minutes and killed the shooter.

People there reported that some police went in, seemingly acting as individuals rather than with the department, to save the kids important to them and not near the shooter. One of the restrained parents seems to have made it in and saved her child. An interview with someone in the state police (I think) seemed to confirm that random officers went inside to remove select children.

The press conference didn't provide much info, didn't give a timeline, didn't say why the police waited so long to go in, and conflicted with other official statements previously given. He did say the authorities tried to negotiate with the gunman. Not sure what that means, and he didn't explain what he means by "negotiate."

Basically, it's a clusterf**k. Incompetence mixed with deceit and cowboy wannabes trying to hold onto power and not have everyone hate them. Between the lies and misunderstandings, it's going to be hard to sort this out.

Actually, this makes sense based on witnesses (that he spent 12 minutes shooting at people), that officers engaged, were injured, then set up a perimeter to control the situation. The kid had been posting all over social media engaging with strangers so negotiating means just that - that the gunman was communicating with police. The media is always quick to want to post first, so it also makes sense that some details were incorrect.

This is all very tragic. So was the Vegas shooting and I don’t hear much about that anymore.

We can't keep talking about every mass shooting because we have had what 200 and something this year alone. We aren't even 200 days into the damn year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There were no police in the building … the cops were trying to negotiate with him for an hour.

I'm trying to understand the logistics here. How were they negotiating with him? Yelling from outside the building to inside the building? Did they have phone communication with him?

An hour this went on. Do you know how many kids he killed in under 10 minutes?. They needed to get in there and take him out and if they didn't have the balls to do it they should have at least let the parents in to do their jobs

Did he go classroom to classroom or stay in one classroom?

1 classroom. All 19 kids and 2 teachers were from the same class.

It was two adjoining classrooms with a door between. Per a clip of a surviving child recounting the experience.

So many security breaches.

Yep, totally the fault of those teachers and students in school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If cops were getting kids out of that building safely then why were parents screaming to go into rescue their own children?

Because chaos reigns and it’s entirely possible that the parents had no idea what was going on elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There were no police in the building … the cops were trying to negotiate with him for an hour.

I'm trying to understand the logistics here. How were they negotiating with him? Yelling from outside the building to inside the building? Did they have phone communication with him?

An hour this went on. Do you know how many kids he killed in under 10 minutes?. They needed to get in there and take him out and if they didn't have the balls to do it they should have at least let the parents in to do their jobs

Did he go classroom to classroom or stay in one classroom?

1 classroom. All 19 kids and 2 teachers were from the same class.

It was two adjoining classrooms with a door between. Per a clip of a surviving child recounting the experience.

So many security breaches.

It's a school with 600 kids in east Texas. I can't imagine they have a lot of money for robust security.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There were no police in the building … the cops were trying to negotiate with him for an hour.

I'm trying to understand the logistics here. How were they negotiating with him? Yelling from outside the building to inside the building? Did they have phone communication with him?

An hour this went on. Do you know how many kids he killed in under 10 minutes?. They needed to get in there and take him out and if they didn't have the balls to do it they should have at least let the parents in to do their jobs

Did he go classroom to classroom or stay in one classroom?

1 classroom. All 19 kids and 2 teachers were from the same class.

It was two adjoining classrooms with a door between. Per a clip of a surviving child recounting the experience.

So many security breaches.

Yep, totally the fault of those teachers and students in school

As Gilliam said, 90% of the schools who hired him to consult did not implement any of his recommendations, citing it would make the kids feel scared, like a prison, etc. So they planted gardens, etc. instead. The only person at fault is the gunman. We can’t keep pretending there is no evil or crazy. This kid screamed it from the rooftops for years and was still dismissed. He decided to get attention in the worst possible way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There were no police in the building … the cops were trying to negotiate with him for an hour.

I'm trying to understand the logistics here. How were they negotiating with him? Yelling from outside the building to inside the building? Did they have phone communication with him?

An hour this went on. Do you know how many kids he killed in under 10 minutes?. They needed to get in there and take him out and if they didn't have the balls to do it they should have at least let the parents in to do their jobs

Did he go classroom to classroom or stay in one classroom?

1 classroom. All 19 kids and 2 teachers were from the same class.

It was two adjoining classrooms with a door between. Per a clip of a surviving child recounting the experience.

So many security breaches.

It's a school with 600 kids in east Texas. I can't imagine they have a lot of money for robust security.

You don’t need a lot of money to deter. A lot can be done cheaply. The goal is to slow someone down or make them change their mind because it’s too hard. Do you know how many thieves go to the next house if there’s a sign that says ‘beware of dog’ and a water dish outside? Or how many thieves simply try the door or window and choose an unlocked home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There were no police in the building … the cops were trying to negotiate with him for an hour.

I'm trying to understand the logistics here. How were they negotiating with him? Yelling from outside the building to inside the building? Did they have phone communication with him?

An hour this went on. Do you know how many kids he killed in under 10 minutes?. They needed to get in there and take him out and if they didn't have the balls to do it they should have at least let the parents in to do their jobs

Did he go classroom to classroom or stay in one classroom?

1 classroom. All 19 kids and 2 teachers were from the same class.

It was two adjoining classrooms with a door between. Per a clip of a surviving child recounting the experience.

So many security breaches.

Yep, totally the fault of those teachers and students in school

As Gilliam said, 90% of the schools who hired him to consult did not implement any of his recommendations, citing it would make the kids feel scared, like a prison, etc. So they planted gardens, etc. instead. The only person at fault is the gunman. We can’t keep pretending there is no evil or crazy. This kid screamed it from the rooftops for years and was still dismissed. He decided to get attention in the worst possible way.

Because teaching kids in small prisons is not developmentally appropriate. Republicans just want a privatize schools like they did prisons and we see how all that's working out