Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish some of the people with very passionate gripes would call out their clubs. At least the Vienna parents aren't afraid to do that. I'm guess it's Arlington that doesn't allow move ups due to "politics"...at least that's what I've read on this post in the past. But I don't understand...Arlington [or Loudoun or whoever] is a huge club. Why would it need to appease a parent or two and keep a kid or two on the top team when he doesn't deserve it? I mean if you demote a kid and the kid wants to leave, let him leave. Most clubs have tons of kids (with plenty of money) to replace him. What's one or two kids...unless it's truly politics and the parents know the coach or directors and are able to pull strings. But as Doc Rivers has said...."I never met a coach that doesn't want to win." and clubs are under pressure for their top teams to win. I don't get this. I think it's more of what the one previous poster said and that your kid doesn't really deserve to move up and it's just in your head. Just because your kid might be able to score a goal or two against other clubs' 3rd teams, it doesn't mean that he'd be able to do it against 1st teams. There is a HUGE difference between the quality of play between some 1st teams and 2nd teams and 3rd teams...etc.

It is pretty common all around. Very rarely do kids on the A team tryout at a different club because there is little incentive to. Coaches are sloooooow to change their minds on kids. It isn't enough that a B or C team kid improves, they have to blow away kids on the A team to move the needle.

Yes. This is why kids move clubs. Players are pretty set in a lot of coach's mind. A move gets a kid a fresh set of eyes somewhere else and a fresh evaluation. If the kid weren't good, he wouldn't make the A team at the rival club. I've seen kids leave to move up and once there--transfer back onto the A team. True talent will get recognized somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish some of the people with very passionate gripes would call out their clubs. At least the Vienna parents aren't afraid to do that. I'm guess it's Arlington that doesn't allow move ups due to "politics"...at least that's what I've read on this post in the past. But I don't understand...Arlington [or Loudoun or whoever] is a huge club. Why would it need to appease a parent or two and keep a kid or two on the top team when he doesn't deserve it? I mean if you demote a kid and the kid wants to leave, let him leave. Most clubs have tons of kids (with plenty of money) to replace him. What's one or two kids...unless it's truly politics and the parents know the coach or directors and are able to pull strings. But as Doc Rivers has said...."I never met a coach that doesn't want to win." and clubs are under pressure for their top teams to win. I don't get this. I think it's more of what the one previous poster said and that your kid doesn't really deserve to move up and it's just in your head. Just because your kid might be able to score a goal or two against other clubs' 3rd teams, it doesn't mean that he'd be able to do it against 1st teams. There is a HUGE difference between the quality of play between some 1st teams and 2nd teams and 3rd teams...etc.

It is pretty common all around. Very rarely do kids on the A team tryout at a different club because there is little incentive to. Coaches are sloooooow to change their minds on kids. It isn't enough that a B or C team kid improves, they have to blow away kids on the A team to move the needle.

Yes. This is why kids move clubs. Players are pretty set in a lot of coach's mind. A move gets a kid a fresh set of eyes somewhere else and a fresh evaluation. If the kid weren't good, he wouldn't make the A team at the rival club. I've seen kids leave to move up and once there--transfer back onto the A team. True talent will get recognized somewhere.

What age groups does this start to happen ? I would think 10 and < most teams are working on development with the ball and small sided games so being on a-d wouldn't be much different ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. This is why kids move clubs. Players are pretty set in a lot of coach's mind. A move gets a kid a fresh set of eyes somewhere else and a fresh evaluation. If the kid weren't good, he wouldn't make the A team at the rival club. I've seen kids leave to move up and once there--transfer back onto the A team. True talent will get recognized somewhere.

Of course, just as often, the fresh evaluation is the wrong evaluation. Maybe the kid made the A team at the other club because s/he looked good enough during the couple of hours of tryouts but then once the practices start, it's clear that the kid is in over their head. The parents will look at the situation as verification that their superstar was aggrieved by the original club even though their child barely sees the playing field at the new club; in truth, the original coach with more exposure to the player had a better assessment of where the player belonged.

As hard as it is, parents need to have a realistic, objective assessment of where their child stands. This may be hard in the club setting so have your child do some outside classes, attend another team's practice or even tryout for ODP to see where s/he stands. If you still believe your kid isn't being treated fair for whatever reason - but it's probably not politics - then switch clubs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. This is why kids move clubs. Players are pretty set in a lot of coach's mind. A move gets a kid a fresh set of eyes somewhere else and a fresh evaluation. If the kid weren't good, he wouldn't make the A team at the rival club. I've seen kids leave to move up and once there--transfer back onto the A team. True talent will get recognized somewhere.

Of course, just as often, the fresh evaluation is the wrong evaluation. Maybe the kid made the A team at the other club because s/he looked good enough during the couple of hours of tryouts but then once the practices start, it's clear that the kid is in over their head. The parents will look at the situation as verification that their superstar was aggrieved by the original club even though their child barely sees the playing field at the new club; in truth, the original coach with more exposure to the player had a better assessment of where the player belonged.

As hard as it is, parents need to have a realistic, objective assessment of where their child stands. This may be hard in the club setting so have your child do some outside classes, attend another team's practice or even tryout for ODP to see where s/he stands. If you still believe your kid isn't being treated fair for whatever reason - but it's probably not politics - then switch clubs.

I don't think most parents are completely delusional about their child's ability, but it's true that many of them don't have a realistic sense of all their child's strengths and weaknesses, often because the parents don't know much about soccer or what a particular coach is trying to accomplish. If your child has all the elements--athletic ability (quickness, speed, agility, and strength), good soccer decision making ability, a good attitude and work rate, and a love for the game and for winning--your child will be coveted by every single coach they come across. But most kids don't have that whole set, and then the coach's choices will have a lot to do with what sort of soccer they like. Some will value speed and aggression over skills and/or decision making and others vice versa. Some care a lot about how coachable a kid is, where others feel like they can whip anyone into shape, etc. A lot of parents focus only on their child's strengths and become aggrieved when comparing their child with higher placed kids who are not as fast, skillful (or whatever) but may have a lot of abilities that the parent ignores or doesn't know enough about soccer to recognize.

I think the bolded is very good advice. The feedback you get from other coaches and programs is really helpful in figuring out whether your sense of your child's abilities is on target. I've seen it work both ways, where the outside training confirmed the parents' sense that the staff at their current club were not competent, and in other cases where parents finally had to give up their conspiracy theories and acknowledge that their child's failure to progress was due to a lack of ability (this usually takes years and years for a dug-in parent).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. This is why kids move clubs. Players are pretty set in a lot of coach's mind. A move gets a kid a fresh set of eyes somewhere else and a fresh evaluation. If the kid weren't good, he wouldn't make the A team at the rival club. I've seen kids leave to move up and once there--transfer back onto the A team. True talent will get recognized somewhere.

Of course, just as often, the fresh evaluation is the wrong evaluation. Maybe the kid made the A team at the other club because s/he looked good enough during the couple of hours of tryouts but then once the practices start, it's clear that the kid is in over their head. The parents will look at the situation as verification that their superstar was aggrieved by the original club even though their child barely sees the playing field at the new club; in truth, the original coach with more exposure to the player had a better assessment of where the player belonged.

As hard as it is, parents need to have a realistic, objective assessment of where their child stands. This may be hard in the club setting so have your child do some outside classes, attend another team's practice or even tryout for ODP to see where s/he stands. If you still believe your kid isn't being treated fair for whatever reason - but it's probably not politics - then switch clubs.

And just as often it's the home club that made the wrong initial evaluation. You seem unwilling to concede that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. This is why kids move clubs. Players are pretty set in a lot of coach's mind. A move gets a kid a fresh set of eyes somewhere else and a fresh evaluation. If the kid weren't good, he wouldn't make the A team at the rival club. I've seen kids leave to move up and once there--transfer back onto the A team. True talent will get recognized somewhere.

Of course, just as often, the fresh evaluation is the wrong evaluation. Maybe the kid made the A team at the other club because s/he looked good enough during the couple of hours of tryouts but then once the practices start, it's clear that the kid is in over their head. The parents will look at the situation as verification that their superstar was aggrieved by the original club even though their child barely sees the playing field at the new club; in truth, the original coach with more exposure to the player had a better assessment of where the player belonged.

As hard as it is, parents need to have a realistic, objective assessment of where their child stands. This may be hard in the club setting so have your child do some outside classes, attend another team's practice or even tryout for ODP to see where s/he stands. If you still believe your kid isn't being treated fair for whatever reason - but it's probably not politics - then switch clubs.

And just as often it's the home club that made the wrong initial evaluation. You seem unwilling to concede that point.

You're right, I do not concede that point. In an academy of 48 players (4 teams of 12 (below U13) or 3 teams of 16 (U13 up)), any competent coaching team will get at least 44, and probably more, of the players on the right team. So it is absolutely not "just as often" that the home team makes the wrong evaluation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. This is why kids move clubs. Players are pretty set in a lot of coach's mind. A move gets a kid a fresh set of eyes somewhere else and a fresh evaluation. If the kid weren't good, he wouldn't make the A team at the rival club. I've seen kids leave to move up and once there--transfer back onto the A team. True talent will get recognized somewhere.

Of course, just as often, the fresh evaluation is the wrong evaluation. Maybe the kid made the A team at the other club because s/he looked good enough during the couple of hours of tryouts but then once the practices start, it's clear that the kid is in over their head. The parents will look at the situation as verification that their superstar was aggrieved by the original club even though their child barely sees the playing field at the new club; in truth, the original coach with more exposure to the player had a better assessment of where the player belonged.

As hard as it is, parents need to have a realistic, objective assessment of where their child stands. This may be hard in the club setting so have your child do some outside classes, attend another team's practice or even tryout for ODP to see where s/he stands. If you still believe your kid isn't being treated fair for whatever reason - but it's probably not politics - then switch clubs.

And just as often it's the home club that made the wrong initial evaluation. You seem unwilling to concede that point.

You're right, I do not concede that point. In an academy of 48 players (4 teams of 12 (below U13) or 3 teams of 16 (U13 up)), any competent coaching team will get at least 44, and probably more, of the players on the right team. So it is absolutely not "just as often" that the home team makes the wrong evaluation.

They evaluate kids in 3 hours of tryouts--just like at other clubs which you admitted are likely to make Some wrong decisions based on how somebody played in 3 hours. It's also been stated, that coaches don't look at the lower teams once set (was that you or somebody else) once they have the top set.

Ludicrous and a bit presumptuous to claim only other clubs make mistakes, not you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. This is why kids move clubs. Players are pretty set in a lot of coach's mind. A move gets a kid a fresh set of eyes somewhere else and a fresh evaluation. If the kid weren't good, he wouldn't make the A team at the rival club. I've seen kids leave to move up and once there--transfer back onto the A team. True talent will get recognized somewhere.

Of course, just as often, the fresh evaluation is the wrong evaluation. Maybe the kid made the A team at the other club because s/he looked good enough during the couple of hours of tryouts but then once the practices start, it's clear that the kid is in over their head. The parents will look at the situation as verification that their superstar was aggrieved by the original club even though their child barely sees the playing field at the new club; in truth, the original coach with more exposure to the player had a better assessment of where the player belonged.

As hard as it is, parents need to have a realistic, objective assessment of where their child stands. This may be hard in the club setting so have your child do some outside classes, attend another team's practice or even tryout for ODP to see where s/he stands. If you still believe your kid isn't being treated fair for whatever reason - but it's probably not politics - then switch clubs.

And just as often it's the home club that made the wrong initial evaluation. You seem unwilling to concede that point.

You're right, I do not concede that point. In an academy of 48 players (4 teams of 12 (below U13) or 3 teams of 16 (U13 up)), any competent coaching team will get at least 44, and probably more, of the players on the right team. So it is absolutely not "just as often" that the home team makes the wrong evaluation.

They evaluate kids in 3 hours of tryouts--just like at other clubs which you admitted are likely to make Some wrong decisions based on how somebody played in 3 hours. It's also been stated, that coaches don't look at the lower teams once set (was that you or somebody else) once they have the top set.

Ludicrous and a bit presumptuous to claim only other clubs make mistakes, not you.

But this attitude is exactly the reason we left and are much happier for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. This is why kids move clubs. Players are pretty set in a lot of coach's mind. A move gets a kid a fresh set of eyes somewhere else and a fresh evaluation. If the kid weren't good, he wouldn't make the A team at the rival club. I've seen kids leave to move up and once there--transfer back onto the A team. True talent will get recognized somewhere.

Of course, just as often, the fresh evaluation is the wrong evaluation. Maybe the kid made the A team at the other club because s/he looked good enough during the couple of hours of tryouts but then once the practices start, it's clear that the kid is in over their head. The parents will look at the situation as verification that their superstar was aggrieved by the original club even though their child barely sees the playing field at the new club; in truth, the original coach with more exposure to the player had a better assessment of where the player belonged.

As hard as it is, parents need to have a realistic, objective assessment of where their child stands. This may be hard in the club setting so have your child do some outside classes, attend another team's practice or even tryout for ODP to see where s/he stands. If you still believe your kid isn't being treated fair for whatever reason - but it's probably not politics - then switch clubs.

And just as often it's the home club that made the wrong initial evaluation. You seem unwilling to concede that point.

You're right, I do not concede that point. In an academy of 48 players (4 teams of 12 (below U13) or 3 teams of 16 (U13 up)), any competent coaching team will get at least 44, and probably more, of the players on the right team. So it is absolutely not "just as often" that the home team makes the wrong evaluation.

They evaluate kids in 3 hours of tryouts--just like at other clubs which you admitted are likely to make Some wrong decisions based on how somebody played in 3 hours. It's also been stated, that coaches don't look at the lower teams once set (was that you or somebody else) once they have the top set.

Ludicrous and a bit presumptuous to claim only other clubs make mistakes, not you.

Why is this hard to understand? Your current club has seen the kid for more than just the 3 hours in tryouts. Given the massive discrepancy between how long your current club has seen a player and the three or fewer hours that the new club has seen the player in tryouts, whose more likely to make a mistake?

[Anonymous]

Seriously... A kid that is a stand-out player isn't going to be kept down on the C/D team just so a coach/club can save face that they mis-placed the kid initially. If the kid is that good, the coach will move them up to the environment that keeps them challenged and benefits the upper teams. If the kid isn't moving, then they don't match up as well as you think they would. Or ask for a shot for them to prove themselves, then you'll see.

Stop with the conspiracy theories!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seriously... A kid that is a stand-out player isn't going to be kept down on the C/D team just so a coach/club can save face that they mis-placed the kid initially. If the kid is that good, the coach will move them up to the environment that keeps them challenged and benefits the upper teams. If the kid isn't moving, then they don't match up as well as you think they would. Or ask for a shot for them to prove themselves, then you'll see.

Stop with the conspiracy theories!

Agree. I also think the biggest mash ups occur around age 12. We've seen a lot of downward movement happen at that time. From that perspective, it's easier for a kid to go up a few levels than down. Nobody should want to be top dog at 8/9---lots of kids nipping at your heels and much more pressure at a young age. Keep 'Em challenged and happy--by 13 you start to see a better picture of the landscape.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seriously... A kid that is a stand-out player isn't going to be kept down on the C/D team just so a coach/club can save face that they mis-placed the kid initially. If the kid is that good, the coach will move them up to the environment that keeps them challenged and benefits the upper teams. If the kid isn't moving, then they don't match up as well as you think they would. Or ask for a shot for them to prove themselves, then you'll see.

Stop with the conspiracy theories!

The problem is, once placed on the lower team the misplaced kid gets inferior coaching and inferior teammates. It is impossible for this kid to improve enough to make the A team at their home club. Coaches confirmation bias sets in and they never look at the lower team kid again. Tryouts at these clubs see the teams on together on their field and new kids get looked at freshly and then sorted as best they can.

If your kid improves as a player it is just easier to standout by going to another club where there is no knowledge of the kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously... A kid that is a stand-out player isn't going to be kept down on the C/D team just so a coach/club can save face that they mis-placed the kid initially. If the kid is that good, the coach will move them up to the environment that keeps them challenged and benefits the upper teams. If the kid isn't moving, then they don't match up as well as you think they would. Or ask for a shot for them to prove themselves, then you'll see.

Stop with the conspiracy theories!

The problem is, once placed on the lower team the misplaced kid gets inferior coaching and inferior teammates. It is impossible for this kid to improve enough to make the A team at their home club. Coaches confirmation bias sets in and they never look at the lower team kid again. Tryouts at these clubs see the teams on together on their field and new kids get looked at freshly and then sorted as best they can.

If your kid improves as a player it is just easier to standout by going to another club where there is no knowledge of the kid.

I disagree with the bolded sentence above. In my experience as a parent and coach of youth travel players it is actually pretty easy for a kid to improve enough to move up a team or two. At the younger ages where there are still 3 or 4 teams many of those kids don't have the desire and work ethic to keep up the necessary pace of development to keep their roster spot -- they simply don't want to work hard to constantly improve. So if a kid on a lower team practices on his own, or works with a knowledgable sibling, parent, or trainer on the side, or plays with friends on the days the team does not practice,etc. it is rather easy for that kid to surpass some of the kids that were initially placed on higher teams who are just coasting on their early advantage in size or speed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously... A kid that is a stand-out player isn't going to be kept down on the C/D team just so a coach/club can save face that they mis-placed the kid initially. If the kid is that good, the coach will move them up to the environment that keeps them challenged and benefits the upper teams. If the kid isn't moving, then they don't match up as well as you think they would. Or ask for a shot for them to prove themselves, then you'll see.

Stop with the conspiracy theories!

The problem is, once placed on the lower team the misplaced kid gets inferior coaching and inferior teammates. It is impossible for this kid to improve enough to make the A team at their home club. Coaches confirmation bias sets in and they never look at the lower team kid again. Tryouts at these clubs see the teams on together on their field and new kids get looked at freshly and then sorted as best they can.

If your kid improves as a player it is just easier to standout by going to another club where there is no knowledge of the kid.

I disagree with the bolded sentence above. In my experience as a parent and coach of youth travel players it is actually pretty easy for a kid to improve enough to move up a team or two. At the younger ages where there are still 3 or 4 teams many of those kids don't have the desire and work ethic to keep up the necessary pace of development to keep their roster spot -- they simply don't want to work hard to constantly improve. So if a kid on a lower team practices on his own, or works with a knowledgable sibling, parent, or trainer on the side, or plays with friends on the days the team does not practice,etc. it is rather easy for that kid to surpass some of the kids that were initially placed on higher teams who are just coasting on their early advantage in size or speed.

What if you are on the F team? We have six teams in our age group. That's quite a ladder to scale...especially in one team increments and with new players from outside clubs filtering in at the higher teams mid-season and filling the spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously... A kid that is a stand-out player isn't going to be kept down on the C/D team just so a coach/club can save face that they mis-placed the kid initially. If the kid is that good, the coach will move them up to the environment that keeps them challenged and benefits the upper teams. If the kid isn't moving, then they don't match up as well as you think they would. Or ask for a shot for them to prove themselves, then you'll see.

Stop with the conspiracy theories!

The problem is, once placed on the lower team the misplaced kid gets inferior coaching and inferior teammates. It is impossible for this kid to improve enough to make the A team at their home club. Coaches confirmation bias sets in and they never look at the lower team kid again. Tryouts at these clubs see the teams on together on their field and new kids get looked at freshly and then sorted as best they can.

If your kid improves as a player it is just easier to standout by going to another club where there is no knowledge of the kid.

I disagree with the bolded sentence above. In my experience as a parent and coach of youth travel players it is actually pretty easy for a kid to improve enough to move up a team or two. At the younger ages where there are still 3 or 4 teams many of those kids don't have the desire and work ethic to keep up the necessary pace of development to keep their roster spot -- they simply don't want to work hard to constantly improve. So if a kid on a lower team practices on his own, or works with a knowledgable sibling, parent, or trainer on the side, or plays with friends on the days the team does not practice,etc. it is rather easy for that kid to surpass some of the kids that were initially placed on higher teams who are just coasting on their early advantage in size or speed.

Yes, exactly! If you are not happy with your child's placement, there are a couple hundred different steps you can take to improve the situation. We are not living in Idaho. There are countless resources (in addition to those you can find for free on the Internet) available here that can help your child advance.