Kids arrested outside of Whitman for selling coke

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My HS has a fully closed lunch and probably 800 kids leave anyway and just show back up like nothing happened. Its infuriating that we don’t do anything about it. But its hard to stop when there are something like 45 exterior doors that are not allowed to be locked due to fire codes.

What has your admin team said about this problem? Have they advocated for more safety staff?

We have 9 security guards already.

Do you believe 9 security guards is enough to prevent the problem you're describing?

Its likely the largest allocation in the county

So you're not gonna answer the question?

Honestly my solution would be to lock 8 of the 10 public bathrooms at lunch and force all 2500 students to use two bathrooms so security can be stationed at heavily used exits instead of having to be bathroom monitors.

However that solution makes parents sad that their HS kids might have to hold their bladders for an hour.

Hiring more security would be great if you all want to pay more in taxes to add an additional 50-60 security personnel

So the number needed in your head is 50 security personnel? Without knowing your role or your expertise, I have no way of knowing why you're throwing that number out.

But here's what I do know: Our high schools have a massive footprint. Even with the 9 security staff you're talking about, it's not as if that's always what you get everyday. When security staff call out sick, there's no substitute for them like there is with teachers.

But you know what MCPS could do? The BOE or Taylor could direct Chief Safety Officer Marcus Jones to review the problem and come up with a revised per school security staff allocation that would meet the goal of preventing students from leaving the school building when they aren't supposed to.

Why do you think that hasn't happened yet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former Whitman grad from early 2000’s. Kids from W have been doing drugs since as long as I can remember. We used to access it from friend’s parents (hidden in their closets) and bring to school, during open lunches, parties, etc. In hindsight, the school did what they could to educate and prevent, but when kids can party at home or parents don’t bother to discipline when it goes missing, then it really is on the parents for not parenting. Too much money and power means kids think they are invincible.

You’re letting the school and school system off the hook way too easily.

You say they educated and tried to prevent, but I don’t see where they tried to disrupt the behavior or intervene once they are aware of it.

What do you want the school to do? If the kids choose to leave, they cannot go get them and drag them back to school. Its 100% on the parents. You may allow it and expect the school to say no but its on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My HS has a fully closed lunch and probably 800 kids leave anyway and just show back up like nothing happened. Its infuriating that we don’t do anything about it. But its hard to stop when there are something like 45 exterior doors that are not allowed to be locked due to fire codes.

What has your admin team said about this problem? Have they advocated for more safety staff?

We have 9 security guards already.

Do you believe 9 security guards is enough to prevent the problem you're describing?

Its likely the largest allocation in the county

So you're not gonna answer the question?

Honestly my solution would be to lock 8 of the 10 public bathrooms at lunch and force all 2500 students to use two bathrooms so security can be stationed at heavily used exits instead of having to be bathroom monitors.

However that solution makes parents sad that their HS kids might have to hold their bladders for an hour.

Hiring more security would be great if you all want to pay more in taxes to add an additional 50-60 security personnel

So the number needed in your head is 50 security personnel? Without knowing your role or your expertise, I have no way of knowing why you're throwing that number out.

But here's what I do know: Our high schools have a massive footprint. Even with the 9 security staff you're talking about, it's not as if that's always what you get everyday. When security staff call out sick, there's no substitute for them like there is with teachers.

But you know what MCPS could do? The BOE or Taylor could direct Chief Safety Officer Marcus Jones to review the problem and come up with a revised per school security staff allocation that would meet the goal of preventing students from leaving the school building when they aren't supposed to.

Why do you think that hasn't happened yet?

50 county wide. Roughly 2 more in each school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My HS has a fully closed lunch and probably 800 kids leave anyway and just show back up like nothing happened. Its infuriating that we don’t do anything about it. But its hard to stop when there are something like 45 exterior doors that are not allowed to be locked due to fire codes.

What has your admin team said about this problem? Have they advocated for more safety staff?

We have 9 security guards already.

Do you believe 9 security guards is enough to prevent the problem you're describing?

Its likely the largest allocation in the county

So you're not gonna answer the question?

Honestly my solution would be to lock 8 of the 10 public bathrooms at lunch and force all 2500 students to use two bathrooms so security can be stationed at heavily used exits instead of having to be bathroom monitors.

However that solution makes parents sad that their HS kids might have to hold their bladders for an hour.

Hiring more security would be great if you all want to pay more in taxes to add an additional 50-60 security personnel

So the number needed in your head is 50 security personnel? Without knowing your role or your expertise, I have no way of knowing why you're throwing that number out.

But here's what I do know: Our high schools have a massive footprint. Even with the 9 security staff you're talking about, it's not as if that's always what you get everyday. When security staff call out sick, there's no substitute for them like there is with teachers.

But you know what MCPS could do? The BOE or Taylor could direct Chief Safety Officer Marcus Jones to review the problem and come up with a revised per school security staff allocation that would meet the goal of preventing students from leaving the school building when they aren't supposed to.

Why do you think that hasn't happened yet?

We need more security at each school for safety but if a student chooses to leave, there is nothing anyone can do come HS age. This is a parenting issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My HS has a fully closed lunch and probably 800 kids leave anyway and just show back up like nothing happened. Its infuriating that we don’t do anything about it. But its hard to stop when there are something like 45 exterior doors that are not allowed to be locked due to fire codes.

Our HS too.. the kids just leave so instead of enforcing the rules the principal opened up the campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former Whitman grad from early 2000’s. Kids from W have been doing drugs since as long as I can remember. We used to access it from friend’s parents (hidden in their closets) and bring to school, during open lunches, parties, etc. In hindsight, the school did what they could to educate and prevent, but when kids can party at home or parents don’t bother to discipline when it goes missing, then it really is on the parents for not parenting. Too much money and power means kids think they are invincible.

You’re letting the school and school system off the hook way too easily.

You say they educated and tried to prevent, but I don’t see where they tried to disrupt the behavior or intervene once they are aware of it.

How exactly do you expect teachers or admin to disrupt these behaviors? Someone that drunk drove and killed someone (SS) but he was under 18-
still went to college. Kids arrested for under age parties but showed up to school on Monday. In school suspensions were overridden by parents that lawyered up. Kids got caught at parties and records were wiped. The list goes on. I partied and was an entitled douche like the rest of them, but left the bubble and now have kids of my own and realize how the sheltered privileged lives of so many stunts and creates the next generation of entitled, selfish people. Of course there were so many kind and successful kids that went on and did good for the world, but Whitman parents have way more power than the school itself, so as much as a staff might want to disrupt, empower, and educate, there is so little they can do- especially outside of regular school hours. Blame the system. NOT teachers who work tirelessly to help educate and give kids global views.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My HS has a fully closed lunch and probably 800 kids leave anyway and just show back up like nothing happened. Its infuriating that we don’t do anything about it. But its hard to stop when there are something like 45 exterior doors that are not allowed to be locked due to fire codes.

What has your admin team said about this problem? Have they advocated for more safety staff?

We have 9 security guards already.

Do you believe 9 security guards is enough to prevent the problem you're describing?

Its likely the largest allocation in the county

So you're not gonna answer the question?

Honestly my solution would be to lock 8 of the 10 public bathrooms at lunch and force all 2500 students to use two bathrooms so security can be stationed at heavily used exits instead of having to be bathroom monitors.

However that solution makes parents sad that their HS kids might have to hold their bladders for an hour.

Hiring more security would be great if you all want to pay more in taxes to add an additional 50-60 security personnel

All the bathrooms are locked except one, if they are lucky at our school. That's cruel and unfair. They are locked all day. I've had to pick up my kids on occasion when they had an issue. Its really unfair for girls. I let my daughter stay home if necessary.

[Anonymous]

You could have a security guard for every student in the building, but that won't stop them from leaving (or insert any pervasive behavior that's common in the school) if there are no consequences for doing so. Security doesn't even attempt to stop behaviors beyond telling them to get to where they need to go if security knows there's nothing that will be done about it at admin level.

If a school has a rule, a school has to be willing to enforce it. And that's where the breakdown is. Kids see that others leave without consequence, so they start to leave too because all there friends are and nothing's happening, so why not?

[Anonymous]

Furthermore, so many of these parents never actually parented. They were never around and just threw money at the problem. They worked hard themselves so the kids were raised by nannies they could boss around. Of course I’m generalizing, but this truly was common in the 2000’s and is very much true today. I see it first had daily and have lived and experienced both sides, so I get it. Unfortunately these kids just don’t know any better. But until parents step up and teach their kids values, kindness, empathy, there is only so much teachers can do to disrupt. It’s bigger than Whitman but I think anyone reading this forum can recognize how detrimental money and power can really be. Schools can’t fix this problem alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You could have a security guard for every student in the building, but that won't stop them from leaving (or insert any pervasive behavior that's common in the school) if there are no consequences for doing so. Security doesn't even attempt to stop behaviors beyond telling them to get to where they need to go if security knows there's nothing that will be done about it at admin level.

If a school has a rule, a school has to be willing to enforce it. And that's where the breakdown is. Kids see that others leave without consequence, so they start to leave too because all there friends are and nothing's happening, so why not?

I agree. I would not let them come back in the school if they left. However it is hard because at the HS level, kids are coming to school randomly throughout the day every day. You'd need more than just the dedicated attendance secretary to screen every student and cross reference them with their attendance earlier in the day. Then don't even get me started on the kids who call a friend to prop open the side door so they can avoid going through the office. It's really an impossible task to keep 2500 kids in a building and keep it secure if you want to stay compliant with building fire codes and whatnot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My HS has a fully closed lunch and probably 800 kids leave anyway and just show back up like nothing happened. Its infuriating that we don’t do anything about it. But its hard to stop when there are something like 45 exterior doors that are not allowed to be locked due to fire codes.

What has your admin team said about this problem? Have they advocated for more safety staff?

We have 9 security guards already.

Do you believe 9 security guards is enough to prevent the problem you're describing?

Its likely the largest allocation in the county

So you're not gonna answer the question?

Honestly my solution would be to lock 8 of the 10 public bathrooms at lunch and force all 2500 students to use two bathrooms so security can be stationed at heavily used exits instead of having to be bathroom monitors.

However that solution makes parents sad that their HS kids might have to hold their bladders for an hour.

Hiring more security would be great if you all want to pay more in taxes to add an additional 50-60 security personnel

So the number needed in your head is 50 security personnel? Without knowing your role or your expertise, I have no way of knowing why you're throwing that number out.

But here's what I do know: Our high schools have a massive footprint. Even with the 9 security staff you're talking about, it's not as if that's always what you get everyday. When security staff call out sick, there's no substitute for them like there is with teachers.

But you know what MCPS could do? The BOE or Taylor could direct Chief Safety Officer Marcus Jones to review the problem and come up with a revised per school security staff allocation that would meet the goal of preventing students from leaving the school building when they aren't supposed to.

Why do you think that hasn't happened yet?

We need more security at each school for safety but if a student chooses to leave, there is nothing anyone can do come HS age. This is a parenting issue.

Again: Parents are not physically there when the kid leaves the school building. The children, while in school, are under the care of MCPS: In loco parentis. How can you fault parents for this when the burden for supervision is on the school while students are in their building? What kind of pretzel logic is this?

If the school system believes physical restraint is the only way to prevent kids from leaving school when they aren't supposed to, they haven't said so. Not that I believe that is the only way to deal with this issue, but let's assume that is: The fact is no one in MCPS has ever said this or lobbied for a policy change at the BOE that would grant MCPS security staff with more latitude to physically restrain students from leaving.

Another way to address this without changing even touching the physical restraint issue, would be to increase the communication and consequences for students who leave the school building in violation of policy. Has MCPS pursued or attempted this? The answer is no.

So stop saying MCPS can't do anything. They could do a lot of things. They literally write the rules. They choose not to. And you need to interrogate why that is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former Whitman grad from early 2000’s. Kids from W have been doing drugs since as long as I can remember. We used to access it from friend’s parents (hidden in their closets) and bring to school, during open lunches, parties, etc. In hindsight, the school did what they could to educate and prevent, but when kids can party at home or parents don’t bother to discipline when it goes missing, then it really is on the parents for not parenting. Too much money and power means kids think they are invincible.

You’re letting the school and school system off the hook way too easily.

You say they educated and tried to prevent, but I don’t see where they tried to disrupt the behavior or intervene once they are aware of it.

How exactly do you expect teachers or admin to disrupt these behaviors? Someone that drunk drove and killed someone (SS) but he was under 18-
still went to college. Kids arrested for under age parties but showed up to school on Monday. In school suspensions were overridden by parents that lawyered up. Kids got caught at parties and records were wiped. The list goes on. I partied and was an entitled douche like the rest of them, but left the bubble and now have kids of my own and realize how the sheltered privileged lives of so many stunts and creates the next generation of entitled, selfish people. Of course there were so many kind and successful kids that went on and did good for the world, but Whitman parents have way more power than the school itself, so as much as a staff might want to disrupt, empower, and educate, there is so little they can do- especially outside of regular school hours. Blame the system. NOT teachers who work tirelessly to help educate and give kids global views.

The only blame I assigned to teachers is that they look the other way, knowing kids are doing or distributing drugs. At the very least, teachers should be informing admin and parents of this behavior.

But the rest I DO blame on the system. Specifically the administrators, the superintendent and the BOE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You could have a security guard for every student in the building, but that won't stop them from leaving (or insert any pervasive behavior that's common in the school) if there are no consequences for doing so. Security doesn't even attempt to stop behaviors beyond telling them to get to where they need to go if security knows there's nothing that will be done about it at admin level.

If a school has a rule, a school has to be willing to enforce it. And that's where the breakdown is. Kids see that others leave without consequence, so they start to leave too because all there friends are and nothing's happening, so why not?

Correct. And the failure to enforce rules and consequences is squarely an administrative failure. Which is what we have here with the Whitman incident. It is a massive administrative failure that 11 kids left the school building during lunch to smoke and distribute drugs and MCPS had to find out about it from police.

The community letter from the principal took no accountability for this administrative failure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You could have a security guard for every student in the building, but that won't stop them from leaving (or insert any pervasive behavior that's common in the school) if there are no consequences for doing so. Security doesn't even attempt to stop behaviors beyond telling them to get to where they need to go if security knows there's nothing that will be done about it at admin level.

If a school has a rule, a school has to be willing to enforce it. And that's where the breakdown is. Kids see that others leave without consequence, so they start to leave too because all there friends are and nothing's happening, so why not?

A school can only enforce rules with parents support. Most schools doing involve parents and keep them at arms length and some parents just ignore or approve of behavior like this. This goes through the police and courts. All a school can do is suspend or expell a child for skipping school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You could have a security guard for every student in the building, but that won't stop them from leaving (or insert any pervasive behavior that's common in the school) if there are no consequences for doing so. Security doesn't even attempt to stop behaviors beyond telling them to get to where they need to go if security knows there's nothing that will be done about it at admin level.

If a school has a rule, a school has to be willing to enforce it. And that's where the breakdown is. Kids see that others leave without consequence, so they start to leave too because all there friends are and nothing's happening, so why not?

Correct. And the failure to enforce rules and consequences is squarely an administrative failure. Which is what we have here with the Whitman incident. It is a massive administrative failure that 11 kids left the school building during lunch to smoke and distribute drugs and MCPS had to find out about it from police.

The community letter from the principal took no accountability for this administrative failure.

This happened off campus. Staff cannot physically stop a student from leaving. Parents need to know where their kids are at all times and this is their responsibility. Its not like this is the first time the kids probably did this or used drugs.