Midwife charged in DC? Karen Carr, CPM...

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I just saw this posted. I know Mairi and Brynne and they are both solid people. I don't know the MD. Should be a very good talk, especially because Brynne is from NARM

Midwifery in our Region
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MONDAY, MAY 16, 2011 AT 12:06 P.M. in HEALTH, LAW, POLITICS, SCIENCE, SOCIETY
A midwife in our region recently pled guilty to two felony counts in the death of a baby delivered at home. The case re-ignited a longstanding debate about "natural" versus "medicalized" birth. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists note increased risks for both baby and mother in home deliveries. Natural birth proponents point to complications from hospital interventions that are often avoidable. We'll explore the debate.

Guests

Mairi Breen Rothman
Certified Nurse Midwife (CNM), co-founder of the Metro Area Midwives and Allied Services
David Downing
Attending OB-GYN physician at Washington Hospital Center.
Brynne Potter
Certified Professional Midwife; Public Relations director for the “Commonwealth Midwives Alliance." On Board of the North American Registry of Midwives (NARM).
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I'm sorry! I forgot to post the link.
http://thekojonnamdishow.org/shows/2011-05-16/midwifery-our-region


So, i am curious to know if KC will get her CPM taken away. I mean if you have felonies related to (or not related to) birth practce, can you still be a CPM? I think CNMs have sort of long process review board thing.


Well, according to NARM, the CPM credential can be revoked for:

Falsification of Application or Recertification information to NARM or fraudulent use of the CPM credential to the public.

Failure to participate in the Grievance Mechanism or to abide by the conditions set as a result of the Grievance Mechanism.

Infractions of the Non-Disclosure policy, which threaten the security of the NARM Examinations.

If the Grievance Mechanism determines that the CPM acted with dishonesty, did not use appropriate informed consent with the client, or that negligent or fraudulent actions compromised the well being of a client or client’s baby, the CPM credential must be revoked.



So maybe she would fall under the negligent label. Other than that, who knows? Interesting how there's nothing there about outcomes or protocols. Just the very broad term "negligent," which will be judged by other CPMs.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I just saw this posted. I know Mairi and Brynne and they are both solid people. I don't know the MD. Should be a very good talk, especially because Brynne is from NARM

Midwifery in our Region
COMMENTS (0)SHARE
MONDAY, MAY 16, 2011 AT 12:06 P.M. in HEALTH, LAW, POLITICS, SCIENCE, SOCIETY
A midwife in our region recently pled guilty to two felony counts in the death of a baby delivered at home. The case re-ignited a longstanding debate about "natural" versus "medicalized" birth. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists note increased risks for both baby and mother in home deliveries. Natural birth proponents point to complications from hospital interventions that are often avoidable. We'll explore the debate.

Guests

Mairi Breen Rothman
Certified Nurse Midwife (CNM), co-founder of the Metro Area Midwives and Allied Services
David Downing
Attending OB-GYN physician at Washington Hospital Center.
Brynne Potter
Certified Professional Midwife; Public Relations director for the “Commonwealth Midwives Alliance." On Board of the North American Registry of Midwives (NARM).
Login or register to post comments


I'm sorry! I forgot to post the link.
http://thekojonnamdishow.org/shows/2011-05-16/midwifery-our-region


So, i am curious to know if KC will get her CPM taken away. I mean if you have felonies related to (or not related to) birth practce, can you still be a CPM? I think CNMs have sort of long process review board thing.


Well, according to NARM, the CPM credential can be revoked for:

Falsification of Application or Recertification information to NARM or fraudulent use of the CPM credential to the public.

Failure to participate in the Grievance Mechanism or to abide by the conditions set as a result of the Grievance Mechanism.

Infractions of the Non-Disclosure policy, which threaten the security of the NARM Examinations.

If the Grievance Mechanism determines that the CPM acted with dishonesty, did not use appropriate informed consent with the client, or that negligent or fraudulent actions compromised the well being of a client or client’s baby, the CPM credential must be revoked.



So maybe she would fall under the negligent label. Other than that, who knows? Interesting how there's nothing there about outcomes or protocols. Just the very broad term "negligent," which will be judged by other CPMs.


So, is the Grievance Mechanism initiated by a consumer complaint? That's how I read it.
Anonymous
"What kind of situation? A home birth gone bad?"

The neglectful treatment of the newborn which led to his demise.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Wow. The level of hatred and venom in this debate is astounding. It's hard for me to understand why it is so outrageous to allow women to decide who will assist them in childbirth. I believe that all options should be available...from planned c-section to unattended birth. It's your prerogative. If you want a "REAL" doctor as the PP said, get one. If you want a CPM, get one. KC does not force herself on anyone so why is it her presence so threatening to people? We live in the "information age" so moms who are thinking of hiring her will have LOTS of information about her online now that so much has been written. Let people make their own decisions.


I think it is because people want their choices validated. If others do something different then they question their decision, or can be in a place of having to defend it to themselves. Mothers take the safety of their children very seriously, mostly. So anything that suggests that they have done something to harm their child puts them in a defensive mode. So, we have home birth and hospital birth we have breastfeeding and formula feeding and circumcision and not...

These issues are intensely personal. We make decisions based on our life experience. In light of this, it really is upsetting that the posts here have been so hostile. I think it is the nature of the beast - the anonymity. In one way it allows people to find a voice they might not have tapped in to before, but in another way, it's sad because that voice might be an ugly hateful one.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I just saw this posted. I know Mairi and Brynne and they are both solid people. I don't know the MD. Should be a very good talk, especially because Brynne is from NARM

Midwifery in our Region
COMMENTS (0)SHARE
MONDAY, MAY 16, 2011 AT 12:06 P.M. in HEALTH, LAW, POLITICS, SCIENCE, SOCIETY
A midwife in our region recently pled guilty to two felony counts in the death of a baby delivered at home. The case re-ignited a longstanding debate about "natural" versus "medicalized" birth. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists note increased risks for both baby and mother in home deliveries. Natural birth proponents point to complications from hospital interventions that are often avoidable. We'll explore the debate.

Guests

Mairi Breen Rothman
Certified Nurse Midwife (CNM), co-founder of the Metro Area Midwives and Allied Services
David Downing
Attending OB-GYN physician at Washington Hospital Center.
Brynne Potter
Certified Professional Midwife; Public Relations director for the “Commonwealth Midwives Alliance." On Board of the North American Registry of Midwives (NARM).
Login or register to post comments


I'm sorry! I forgot to post the link.
http://thekojonnamdishow.org/shows/2011-05-16/midwifery-our-region


So, i am curious to know if KC will get her CPM taken away. I mean if you have felonies related to (or not related to) birth practce, can you still be a CPM? I think CNMs have sort of long process review board thing.


Well, according to NARM, the CPM credential can be revoked for:

Falsification of Application or Recertification information to NARM or fraudulent use of the CPM credential to the public.

Failure to participate in the Grievance Mechanism or to abide by the conditions set as a result of the Grievance Mechanism.

Infractions of the Non-Disclosure policy, which threaten the security of the NARM Examinations.

If the Grievance Mechanism determines that the CPM acted with dishonesty, did not use appropriate informed consent with the client, or that negligent or fraudulent actions compromised the well being of a client or client’s baby, the CPM credential must be revoked.



So maybe she would fall under the negligent label. Other than that, who knows? Interesting how there's nothing there about outcomes or protocols. Just the very broad term "negligent," which will be judged by other CPMs.


So, is the Grievance Mechanism initiated by a consumer complaint? That's how I read it.

Yup, it looks like it. It also says:

"A complaint will be addressed with the Complaint Review or Grievance Mechanism only if the client whose course of care has prompted the complaint is willing to sign a records release. With a records release, her chart will be confidentially reviewed and discussed by the midwives participating in the Grievance Mechanism. Without the client’s permission to review her chart the complaint is closed.

A complaint against a CPM or CPM applicant may only be made by a client, or a party with direct knowledge of the cause for concern. Complaints must be received by NARM within 18 months of the end of the course of care prompting the complaint. A complete list of policies regarding the NARM Accountability Process can be found in the [Candidate Information Booklet (CIB)]."


So the complaint has to come from the patient or someone directly related to the case (maybe a doula/assistant?). But the patient has to release her records or nothing happens. And again, this is all reviewed by other CPMs, whose education and credentials could be just about anything.

http://narm.org/accountability/
Anonymous
"One was on the initial prosecution witness list so they (Boucher et al )were prepared to parade at least one of the parents up there."

Yes, and the prosecutor probably was hoping to protect the parents from further heartbreak that would have occurred at a trial.

Am I mis-reading what seems to be alot of anger and vitriol directed at the prosecutor? It's hard to understand because she just seems to be doing her job.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:"What kind of situation? A home birth gone bad?"

The neglectful treatment of the newborn which led to his demise.


We'll never know that because it never went to trial, although people here are set on a burning anyway without hearing both sides. It is such a sad story. I think everybody lost on this one.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"What kind of situation? A home birth gone bad?"

The neglectful treatment of the newborn which led to his demise.


We'll never know that because it never went to trial, although people here are set on a burning anyway without hearing both sides. It is such a sad story. I think everybody lost on this one.


No, no, people were asking who actually reported the baby's death to the authorities. It was the staff of the neonatal unit where the baby died, not the obstetrical staff as some have stated.
Anonymous
Yes, they are required to report the death--unlike MANA which is still withholding their data and reporting is optional.

Nothing like a little peer review.
Anonymous
To those who know about the statistical aspects of this, will this sweet baby's death be reported as a home birth death or a hospital death (since he died at the hospital)?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:To those who know about the statistical aspects of this, will this sweet baby's death be reported as a home birth death or a hospital death (since he died at the hospital)?

That is a really great question. I think i'm going to call in to the broadcast tomorrow and ask Brynne.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:To those who know about the statistical aspects of this, will this sweet baby's death be reported as a home birth death or a hospital death (since he died at the hospital)?

The hospital has to report his death with their records. It's up to Karen Carr and her client whether or not she'll be reporting this death to MANA.
Anonymous
What an eye opener it would be if the baby's death counted towards hospital mortality rates, when his death is actually related to a home delivery.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:What an eye opener it would be if the baby's death counted towards hospital mortality rates, when his death is actually related to a home delivery.

With the strict hospital requirements, and not-as-strict CPM requirements for reporting morbidity and mortality, I'd bet that many of the mothers and babies who are transferred don't get appropriately counted in the homebirth stats.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:To those who know about the statistical aspects of this, will this sweet baby's death be reported as a home birth death or a hospital death (since he died at the hospital)?


In what regard? If it were part of a well done study, like the Canadian study, it would be included in the homebirth category as the mothers are grouped by intended place of birth.
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